[athena2011]

About a year ago, I spoke these words "Once you get to know me, you'll run".

I said them to my T. Never said them before. Over the next 12 months, it would appear that it takes about 1 - 2 months to get to know me. If you're really, really patient - you might stick around a little longer, thinking there's some potential. After all, that first month with me was just so intoxicatingly fun. We read each other's minds. We finished each other's sentences. We communicated effortlessly. We had so much in common. Where did that person go?

Maybe...I discovered your flaws. They scare me. You have too many secrets. There's something you're not telling me. You want inside my head, but you won't let me in yours. You don't do what you say you're going to do. You're not nice to your dogs. You got rough with my kid. I'm always the one calling you. Doubts and more doubts. I bring these things up. You dismiss or stonewall. OK, I think that's where I checked out. But I stay with you. Why? 'Cause I don't want to be alone? We get along in so many other ways? Nobody's perfect? I can't do any better? I don't know. You know my flaws now too. Nope, I'm not perfect. Far from. In fact, I'm not even the same person you met anymore. You've seen the dark side of me. I'm back to broken, beyond repair. I can barely talk to you anymore. You don't want to get sucked into my nightmare. I don't blame you. Why are you still with me? What keeps you here? Now I'm getting paranoid. What do you want? I'm afraid you're going to do X, Y and Z, like the last guy. No, I'm not attacking you, please just prove to me in actions, not in words that you are different.

And you disappear.

Then the cycle repeats. Different flaws, same pattern. 1)I come alive, 2)I slowly die, 3)I'm dead, 4)you're gone. And my T? We're at number 3. What's next?

thats brilliant expression right there.
----------------------------------

was just walkin' down the shop and was thinkin' about my last relationship and how it tore strips off me..turned me inside out.

then it occurred to me just how 1 dimensional this person was!
they are like a square...flat and well, whatever..and they move around freely in their little square there.
meanwhile I am like spherical tapezoidal thing with pointy bits and stuff..anyway I am 3 dimensional!

maybe even throw in a fourth dimension because I reckon I need it.

flat shapes fit with flat shapes......., and shapes like my shape I don't know yet?

but most people I have got close with are 1 dimensional and can only respond to me...treat me... from that perspective...

so they don't even know they are mis-treating me

.....they don't even know

and I go skull over butt trying to get them to see my shape....cos I get the square!
I know the square flat thing...there is one inside my crazy shape.

it usualy destroys me,

I stay away from the 1 dimensionals now...for my own safety

[athena2011]

Originally Posted by dubblemonkey

...
then it occurred to me just how 1 dimensional this person was!
they are like a square...flat and well, whatever..and they move around freely in their little square there.
meanwhile I am like spherical tapezoidal thing with pointy bits and stuff..anyway I am 3 dimensional!

maybe even throw in a fourth dimension because I reckon I need it.

....but most people I have got close with are 1 dimensional and can only respond to me...treat me... from that perspective...

so they don't even know they are mis-treating me

.....they don't even know

it usualy destroys me,

I stay away from the 1 dimensionals now...for my own safety

This seems to be the only type I attract. In a way, they are dead inside. No highs, no lows, no yearning to keep bettering themselves, no complexity. I think I'm just there for their entertainment. Anyway, at least I drive them away a lot faster than I used to. I wish they would just show their true nature up front so I could avoid them altogether.

[unaluna]

pearls before swine. Athena, are you really saying, once you get to know that person, YOU'LL be gone? I "underchoose" too. I look back on some r/s and think (sometimes while i'm still in them) I wouldn't even want to be friends with this person, why am I married to them??? (That was the camping weekend fRom hell!) My T says my parents and I were a spectacularly bad match, so I keep trying to find and please someone who just isn't my match.

Originally Posted by hankster

I wouldn't even want to be friends with this person, why am I married to them??? , I keep trying to find and please someone who just isn't my match.

thats full on....hit me in the face...all my faces!

I wouldn't even want to be friends with this person...why do I 'love' them???

there is definitely something in that! thanks Hankster

and Athena...I have only managed to avoid those people by avoiding everybody...until I can determine another way or get my strength back...

there is definitely something in that to...thanks also

I will go and think now

[athena2011]

Originally Posted by hankster

pearls before swine. Athena, are you really saying, once you get to know that person, YOU'LL be gone? I "underchoose" too. I look back on some r/s and think (sometimes while i'm still in them) I wouldn't even want to be friends with this person, why am I married to them??? (That was the camping weekend fRom hell!) My T says my parents and I were a spectacularly bad match, so I keep trying to find and please someone who just isn't my match.

It's both - feeling too good for somebody when you underchoose or not good enough for somebody who you think is a decent person. I guess I generally don't seem to attract the latter - probably because I sabotage myself and manage to 'unattract' them right after "Hello, nice to meet you." I suppose that's the category I put my T in. The category I put my Mom in. My Dad - I suspect was like me - repressed, withdrawn workaholic who was very cynical about most things and didn't appear to enjoy life at all. But we never really talked. My brother - is morbidly obese, depressed, OCD, ADD, diabetic and lives off my Mom. I get along with him quite well - his failings generally don't hurt me. My sister? I don't know. She runs with the popular crowd, and the one I think my parents would choose as the one worth 'saving' if her and I were in a 'parent must choose which one lives' scenario. In a weird way, I look up to her even though she's aggressive, attention seeking, judgemental, mean (to those who have no useful purpose to her), a bully and builds herself up by putting others down. But somehow - she gets away with it in life. So she gets what she wants - a wonderful husband, all the material things she wants, happiness, success, lots of friends, tons of energy and is unencumbered by guilt over who she hurt to get there. I don't know - maybe a great example of something I read somewhere "All the wrong people have self-esteem".

[athena2011]

Originally Posted by dubblemonkey

and Athena...I have only managed to avoid those people by avoiding everybody...until I can determine another way or get my strength back...

there is definitely something in that to...thanks also

I will go and think now

Avoidance - Yes, I think maybe I need to do that. It's just that....if opportunity arises and one has to choose between maybe getting it right or being lonely - I always choose the former.

So careful with the thinking - don't hurt yourself.

..yeh thinking hurts a bit!....

made me wonder about the way things happen with interactions and relationships?

Uniqueness covers many mental health sufferers...
I see the bpd individual as this wild and exotic creature from deep in the emotional jungle...like some venomous bird of paradise!
to the outside observer..we are very appealing indeed and must be aquired urgently, like a prize!...and heres the weird bit that I thought about...
we get 'captured'...I have always allowed myself to get captured....so I can be finally appreciated for all my 'splendour'....because I really have those beautiful feathers...
BUT....I need to be handled very gently and the unsuspecting un-informed, mis-informed intimacy hunter is only gentle at first to lure me out of the 'jungle'...then the 'charms' fall away, and the cage I find myself in makes me very vulnerable and I attack...my saviour becomes my victim!
they run for their lives, I destroy my cage and I limp back to the jungle with a one or two broken wings

ouch!

[athena2011]

Originally Posted by dubblemonkey

..yeh thinking hurts a bit!....

made me wonder about the way things happen with interactions and relationships?

Uniqueness covers many mental health sufferers...
I see the bpd individual as this wild and exotic creature from deep in the emotional jungle...like some venomous bird of paradise!
to the outside observer..we are very appealing indeed and must be aquired urgently, like a prize!...and heres the weird bit that I thought about...
we get 'captured'...I have always allowed myself to get captured....so I can be finally appreciated for all my 'splendour'....because I really have those beautiful feathers...
BUT....I need to be handled very gently and the unsuspecting un-informed, mis-informed intimacy hunter is only gentle at first to lure me out of the 'jungle'...then the 'charms' fall away, and the cage I find myself in makes me very vulnerable and I attack...my saviour becomes my victim!
they run for their lives, I destroy my cage and I limp back to the jungle with a one or two broken wings

ouch!

Sounds familiar. I act like a cornered animal. People can come by and offer assistance, but it would be too dangerous to let them get that close so I lash out, expecting they have ill intent. If I could just get my freedom - from myself, from the memories of all the painful experiences, from those who continue to persecute, disbelieve, judge, hurt and control me, from fear - then maybe, just maybe I could run back into the jungle and just be who I was meant to be.

[RonPSH]

Originally Posted by dubblemonkey

thats brilliant expression right there.
----------------------------------

was just walkin' down the shop and was thinkin' about my last relationship and how it tore strips off me..turned me inside out.

then it occurred to me just how 1 dimensional this person was!
they are like a square...flat and well, whatever..and they move around freely in their little square there.
meanwhile I am like spherical tapezoidal thing with pointy bits and stuff..anyway I am 3 dimensional!

maybe even throw in a fourth dimension because I reckon I need it.

flat shapes fit with flat shapes......., and shapes like my shape I don't know yet?

but most people I have got close with are 1 dimensional and can only respond to me...treat me... from that perspective...

so they don't even know they are mis-treating me

.....they don't even know

and I go skull over butt trying to get them to see my shape....cos I get the square!
I know the square flat thing...there is one inside my crazy shape.

it usualy destroys me,

I stay away from the 1 dimensionals now...for my own safety

Socially, it's me and a bipolar soulmate, living a journey of love that became a massive awakening. I have zero interest in "normal" because it's just as you say...flat.

[frowningdown]

Originally Posted by dubblemonkey

...I have only managed to avoid those people by avoiding everybody...l:

Totally! The only place I can be real is here, where I am anonymous. I too avoid everybody. Hurt people hurt people. I am a hurting person. I do not want to hurt anyone else. I am also tired of being hurt. To the point where I can not take it anymore. The only way to avoid hurting and being hurt is to avoid people.
No friends, no lovers, no relationships I can not control, which means no relationships.
I do allow my family in my life, but that is it, other than the T. People are mean. Even when we don't intend to be.
Sigh.

[athena2011]

Originally Posted by ProfoundSelfHelp

Socially, it's me and a bipolar soulmate, living a journey of love that became a massive awakening. I have zero interest in "normal" because it's just as you say...flat.

this reminded me of a dream I had a few months into therapy. My T and I had a project to work on together. It was to reconstruct a carrot from all the chopped up pieces lying on the cutting board. I gave it a try and just put the pieces together in a haphazard fashion. Didn't look likes carrot at all. Then he gave it a try and he put them back in the proper order but it was kind of twisted out of shape.

When I told him about the dream, I told him I felt like the carrot. And that I just wanted to be a normal carrot. The second I spoke those words, I said "No, no, no", I don't want to be normal at all - that's just too boring. I just want to be me, the real me, not some mask or bunch of coping mechanisms or a bundle of haphazard personalities all living in the same body. (I don't mean multiple personalities in the clinical sense, more like states of being, shifting attitudes, love/hate, content/suicidal).

Why a carrot? By the time I become 'me' I fear i will be a vegetable by then

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by athena2011

Why a carrot?

Hmmm... sometimes a carrot is just a carrot?

[athena2011]

Originally Posted by hankster

Hmmm... sometimes a carrot is just a carrot?

. Yes, a carrot, in this case, was just a carrot. Well, a vegetable anyway. Some days I feel like one.

However, bananas are a whole different thing.

Originally Posted by athena2011

. I gave it a try and just put the pieces together in a haphazard fashion. Didn't look likes carrot at all.

When I told him about the dream, I told him I felt like the carrot. And that I just wanted to be a normal carrot. The second I spoke those words, I said "No, no, no", I don't want to be normal at all - that's just too boring. Why a carrot? By the time I become 'me' I fear i will be a vegetable by then

....what about 'tossed salad'

[athena2011]

Originally Posted by dubblemonkey

....what about 'tossed salad'

Well, that carrot's sure been tossed around lately.

Originally Posted by athena2011

Well, that carrot's sure been tossed around lately.

hehe

it sure is an amazing dream Athena...there is alot of real insight in there!

it's funny (not haha)...that what might be small stuff for many...is like EPIC for us.

...well I reckon your'e more than just a carrot...and probly know all the spots in the garden.
Yesterday I was kinda like a sweet potato....today?

just a plain old spud!

[athena2011]

Originally Posted by dubblemonkey

hehe

it sure is an amazing dream Athena...there is alot of real insight in there!

it's funny (not haha)...that what might be small stuff for many...is like EPIC for us.

...well I reckon your'e more than just a carrot...and probly know all the spots in the garden.
Yesterday I was kinda like a sweet potato....today?

just a plain old spud!

I once met a sweet potato
He wanted to be a tomato
But he became an old spud
And felt like a dud
So what's he really made of?

Originally Posted by athena2011

I once met a sweet potato
He wanted to be a tomato
But he became an old spud
And felt like a dud
So what's he really made of?

...riddle me this......omg

...maybe he was just a dud to start with.
always a dud...
a dud with grand vegetable dreams..

once an upbeat herb
I met this juicy cabbage
...that had lotsa baggage
we played in the dirt
till we both got hurt....
the garden can be a bit savage

I don't know what thats about?

[athena2011]

Originally Posted by dubblemonkey

...riddle me this......omg

...maybe he was just a dud to start with.
always a dud...
a dud with grand vegetable dreams..

once an upbeat herb
I met this juicy cabbage
...that had lotsa baggage
we played in the dirt
till we both got hurt....
the garden can be a bit savage

I don't know what thats about?

OMG, I just had a flashback to a food processor...blade. Perhaps a warning. That's where SI started. Very, very bad for carrots. I am 'metaphorically speaking' in pieces. Perhaps my metaphors made the leap to reality I guess we both have to stay out of the vegetable garden. The white 'Athena rose' has thorns to defend herself. And rose bushes don't die or get consumed. They are perennials. You can cut pieces off but they grow back. And you'll probably get hurt in the process. Much better a rose than a carrot.

Have you made your way out of the savage garden yet?

[B1_NRecovery]

Originally Posted by frowningdown

Totally! The only place I can be real is here, where I am anonymous. I too avoid everybody. Hurt people hurt people. I am a hurting person. I do not want to hurt anyone else. I am also tired of being hurt. To the point where I can not take it anymore. The only way to avoid hurting and being hurt is to avoid people.
No friends, no lovers, no relationships I can not control, which means no relationships.
I do allow my family in my life, but that is it, other than the T. People are mean. Even when we don't intend to be.
Sigh.

Hey there Frowning,

My mind has definitely gone to the place of wondering "Is it maybe better to just be alone because I can't seem to do relationships (romantic, family, or friendships) well at all?" Even when everything inside of me wants to isolate and withdrawal, I do the opposite because:

1. Isolating and giving up on relationships keeps us in our BPD spiral--thinking no one cares and we are worthless.

2. I need to treat myself the way I want others to treat me. I deserve good friendships and romantic relationships. So do you! But sometimes our BPD gets in the way and we have unrealistic expectations and go from 0 to best friends in 1 hour. We deserve respect always, but relationships take time.

Have you been in any DBT or 12 Step groups? 12 Step is free and there are meetings everywhere. Even if it is AA, you will find people who are struggling and maybe begin to see how to relate to people who are trying to better themselves.

Don't give up on relationships! They are worth it and the pain does end!

Serenity,
B1

Originally Posted by athena2011

OMG, I just had a flashback to a food processor...blade. Perhaps a warning. That's where SI started. Very, very bad for carrots. I am 'metaphorically speaking' in pieces. Perhaps my metaphors made the leap to reality I guess we both have to stay out of the vegetable garden. The white 'Athena rose' has thorns to defend herself. And rose bushes don't die or get consumed. They are perennials. You can cut pieces off but they grow back. And you'll probably get hurt in the process. Much better a rose than a carrot.

Have you made your way out of the savage garden yet?

geez I'm glad you wrote somethin' back...I was thinkin' I had surely 'lost it!"....with the veges thing....ah but it's fine.
it has to be....yeh. careful with that food processor.
thats great about the rose...I never knew that sort of thing.

Yes indeed I got out of the savage garden...before I rotted away eaten by snails. It hurt to dig up my own roots and transplant.

but now am well irrigated in the sunshine and the shade...an unknown variety..but at least I have a chance to grow now....some new shoots and fruits.

these metaphors have been fun.. thanks Athena

[athena2011]

Originally Posted by dubblemonkey

but now am well irrigated in the sunshine and the shade...an unknown variety..but at least I have a chance to grow now....some new shoots and fruits.

these metaphors have been fun.. thanks Athena

That sounds hopeful. And yah, it's been fun, thanks for indulging me.

[Lexi232]

I hate to admit it, but that cycle in your first post you mentioned, does seem to be quite true...
I can loose a T within 2 weeks and never mean to loose them... it just happens.. it's the same as i was growing up with teachers. my parents told me it was because the teachers had to deal with me each year, and couldn't take it no more, and they had to quit.. each year, each place I went, many many schools, each teacher quit... EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM!! All the way up to my 7th grade year.. then it started changing.. but... still..
That cycle DOES repeat itself.. and I either give it my all, and they run like a bat out of hell, or I hide my true self, scared to show it... there must be some sort of flaw there that I can't identify... or else why would everyone ditch and run off once they really saw me...
..... no one... really knows me... not in full... they may know a ton.. but no one knows it all.. that includes myself...

[athena2011]

Originally Posted by Lexi232

That cycle DOES repeat itself.. and I either give it my all, and they run like a bat out of hell, or I hide my true self, scared to show it... there must be some sort of flaw there that I can't identify... or else why would everyone ditch and run off once they really saw me...
..... no one... really knows me... not in full... they may know a ton.. but no one knows it all.. that includes myself...

I think people just want to be around happy, interesting people that they can have fun with. If those elements are missing, the relationship just never lasts. You can fake 'happy, interesting and fun' for a while - weeks, months, whatever - but if that's not really where you're at, yes, people are afraid of the dark - in other people - so they will run away from it...and you.