[Troy]

One of the things about my PTSD (well, if that's what's causing it) is the idea that ppl will hate me if they know me, that is, if they really know me. Lots of people like me on the surface; they would be my friends if I let them through the barrier, but when they make complimentary remarks or act in friendly way, my mind is racing with "Right - if you only knew!).

Even here, in this supportive environment, I know that ppl are supportive till they learn a little more, then they back away. I don't know, maybe they have same problem I do, but a lot of people here have helped me a lot. After a little while, it's pretty much like real life - they pull away. Maybe I wear them out. Maybe it's my reluctance to get professional therapy. Whatever it is, I can see it coming, and then as expected ... they are gone.

They are still in PC, still commenting for others, supporting a lot of people. These are good people I'm talking about here. I don't mean to be critical of them at all. The final result, though, is that they've focused their attention on other things and I get that feeling. It isn't their fault. They need to keep supporting new people. They helped me a lot. But do you see what I mean? The subconscious or even my conscious thoughts are "They do hate me."

And I can understand their hatred. They've been wounded themselves. They've tried to help me, and I've resisted going for that next step with the professionals, so ...

Anyway, I'm worried that some of those who really have helped me will read this and think that I'm critical of them. It's just the opposite. I'm critical of myself, or critical of the symptom that I'm blaming on PTSD - that of thinking everyone will hate me.

So ... the secrets will continue ... and in the mean time, can I ask you,
"Please don't hate me." Pull away if you want. Refuse to reply to my PMs. all of that is understandable - "Please do not hate me."

T.

[deliquesce]

hi troy,

i don't think we've met before, so i really can't speak from personal experience - but i did want to say - i don't think anyone 'hates' you, really. i don't think many people here are trained therapists, and so sometimes we can only give general advice. maybe that is why ppl are encouraging you to go to a therapist - so you can get the proper help and attention you deserve.

i dont think people are ignoring you because they hate you, but maybe because they no longer know what to say?

i'm sorry if you have answered this else where, but why do you refuse to look into therapy? i've found it to be very useful.

xo deli

[Troy]

[quote=deliquesce;925838]hi troy,

i don't think we've met before, so i really can't speak from personal experience - but i did want to say -

thanks for the note ... you're right ... I know it's just this feeling that I have because there are so many good ppl here who have helped me.

Avoidance of therapy is part of the combat syndrome I think. There's no logical reason for it. It's kind of like a fear of what else will be uncovered. and the stigma of being labeled and so on...and the admission of failure and probably some other things

tnx for ur remarks, nice to meet u

[bebop]

troy I don't hate you hon. just haven't been up to par lately myself. I am sorry if I seem distant.

[Troy]

You're the best bebop ... hope ur doin better now

[bebop]

thanks hon. had a very lite TIA last week. diabetes. doing ok lol thanks hon

[Capp]

Troy,
I'm truly sorry that you feel this way. It's painful and full of fear and self loathing...

Many of us do/feel the exact same thing...pull away when there is "too much support." It doesn't feel good at times, at least that is true of me.
I mentioned in another post that much has been shared here but much has not...it's hard to know where to draw the line. I feel if I share too much then there will be silent disapproval...not of the PTSD but of the action(s) that helped bring it on.
Much of it stays locked inside; deep inside where no one will have the chance to judge me.
PTSD from combat situations has an element of we had a choice, but PTSD from abuse is you were a victim. Yes, there are commonalities, but there are still enough differences to warrant...what the heck does it matter. I say that with some bitterness.

As far as people turning away? Yeah that's happened to me also. I truly believe it's because of frustration and some anger.
I can see the commonalities but they cannot see the differences.
Another little part of me dies when that happens

The mask comes on and ya concentrate on others...their pain comes first and comforting them becomes more important than the anguish in our hearts.
Same old crap

I've never wanted to tell "war stories." I have wanted to share whenever a particular event/person triggers me in some way, and I want to feel free to share the reason for the trigger. Oh cleaned up, of course, so it doesn't offend the delicate...
Trigger warning means nothing to some people. It's very nearly an invitation to read it, and when that person gets upset? Blame us

Sometimes I get very tired of the pats on the head...
I don't offer an apology for being in this lonely and dried-up state of mind. Dried up? No...sometimes weeping but it's not a cleansing one, it drains the energy too.

Blogging was to be a release for me. I never intended to include outrageously gruesome details...but I did want to be honest about some of them and their affects on me.
That curtain of sensibility is something I allow to muffle my feelings and my fears.
Mea Culpa, my fault again

Cap

[Troy]

You captured the feeling in words Capp

And at the end of every comment or explanation or description, I want to say "I'm sorry." Isn't that pitiful. Always feeling "sorry" for things where we didn't even have a choice.

And to top that off, when I say "I'm sorry" I trigger myself because of forced writing of those words over and over as a school boy abused by teachers.

It's like going in circles.

[Capp]

Originally Posted by Troy

You captured the feeling in words Capp

And at the end of every comment or explanation or description, I want to say "I'm sorry." Isn't that pitiful. Always feeling "sorry" for things where we didn't even have a choice.

And to top that off, when I say "I'm sorry" I trigger myself because of forced writing of those words over and over as a school boy abused by teachers.

It's like going in circles.

So very true, Troy.
Sometimes I feel like I am the hamster running on the wheel...exhaustion is the only thing that allows me to stop.

We take better care of someone else's hurts than we do our own...akin to doing penance, I think.

[Capp]

This little hamster is very tired...
I'm gonna take a short vacation even if it's on the mountain. There's a measure of peace I find there

Day trips can mean some healing starts again
I want to drive to the top, singing Joplin, windows rolled down
and
Breath, Breath, Breath

The stench of some things never leave you

[Capp]

best laid plans...
raining today so I'll stay home unless it clears up later. it's hard enough getting around with my crutches on wet pavement...nearly impossible on wet leaves.

probably meant to be

Cap

[Troy]

A lot of odors travel with us through the years.

[Sannah]

[Troy]

Thanks for the hugs Sannah ... some people criticize showing "sympathy" for ptsd but I have to tell you that people like you make things more bearable. For me this isn't sympathy but a show of understanding and empathy. Your hugs tell me that you care and that I'm not alone in all of this.

My logic tells me that I'm not hated, but it is the emotional feeling, the lower consciousness that makes me "feel" that others hate me (or that they would for sure if they find out about the real me). Your hugs help me overcome that.

Thank you

[bebop]

you are not hated here hon.

[madisgram]

hi troy, i'm so sorry that you have had to endure this pain for so long. my brother is a nam vet and while professionally successful he has never been able to have a long term committment like marriage...etc. it took him about 30 years to even mention nam. we were prepared, as any family could be, and knew it was his call if he wanted to talk about it. he didn't and i think that is one of the components for his inability to let anyone get close to him.
my son is career military and served X 3 in iraq. each time he has come home with ptsd.
i'm glad you are here at pc and talking about what you are going thru these many years. i hope it lessens some of the horrible intensity of combat ptsd.
i'm sharing these things with you so you will know that i have witenssed the aftermath of war. i commend you for being brave and courageous to share with us some of your trauma and emotional pain. please post as often as needed...i care. i won't hate you now or in the future.

[Troy]

Madisgram ... you've seen this ptsd thing from many perspectives. Thanks for your heroism as a family member. I've long said that families "suffer" as much or even more than combat vets.

Just this morning, before reading your post, I was thinking about the toll combat took on my parents. They were much younger than I am now when I came back from war. I'm sure they never understood the distance I put between us, the changes in my personality, or my remote attitude and bearing.

My wife helped me survive the physical and emotional wounds and put up with me over the years through all the anger, the drinking, the crazy impulses and reactions. I have been blessed with a good, supportive family in spite of any of this ptsd stuff. More than 20 years passed before I mentioned the first thing about combat, and even then, none of the stuff that I've shared here or could tell to those who can understand it.

I pray that your son will be able to overcome these things and remain close in his relationship to you and others who matter. I'd bet that somewhere in the lower consciousness if not on the front of his mind, there is the thought that "if they know, they will hate me." I don't know what can be done about this phenomenon. I don't know whether there is anything you or your son can do about it. The words make sense to me, but back in the back of my mind, it registers as "this is what I'm supposed to say" or "I'll agree just get off the subject."

It seems that our actions would betray us, that we couldn't hide our thoughts about others hating us, but after awhile it's really pretty easy to "play the role" to "put on the right face" ... not that it feels good or that the pressure won't be released in some other way, but we know how to put on the smile and say the right things and on the inside keep thinking --

How can I get out of this conversation?
How can I get out of this group?
If they only knew how inane their remarks sound?
If they only knew how insignificant are their concerns?
If they only knew what I'm thinking about while they chatter away?
People are dying while they talk about potatoe salad?
People are dying while they complain about the weather?
People are dying while they choose ice cream flavors?

Sometimes I feel like I'm actually crazy, like I've gone over the edge, like it would be easier to embrace the craziness than to play the role. And then the thoughts of family return and my awareness that I cannot disappoint them.

The thoughts that reval themselves through the keyboard are amazing. Thanks for letting me ramble about this stuff. And thanks again for not hating the warriors.

[madisgram]

ohhh, troy, your post touched my heart. how could i hate any of the warriors? you? they are doing their duty, honoring the oath they/you took, and many have come home "broken". you sound like such a very, very special person. i only wish you did not have to suffer at all. it's like a horrible wound, you just can't see the blood. you can't hook it up to an IV and make the pain go away. combat ptsd is such a horrible condition. i don't call it a disorder cause it's a medical condition as far as i am concerned, jme. acute trauma.
when my son tom would come home his anger, rage,etc. was mostly directed at me. i think that for him subconsioulsy he knew it was safe to direct all this stuff at me. yes he was out of control with others too but the out of control beyond words rage was pointed in my direction. of course it made me cry sometimes when he'd rant and rave but i knew it was not "him". i "knew" he was choosing the person he knew loved him most in the entire world (me), so it was safe to drive it home with me. i endured cause i love him so very much. his wife did too. fortunately for me my son, after what seemed forever to us, opened up to me. it was late at night on his back porch. wife and children had gone to sleep. he brought up the subject. i let him talk and talk and talk about what he saw and did. one of the moments that took my breath away was he was telling me about the enemy literally on fire running down the road yelling, help me!!! he said his humanity wanted to run up and help them but he had to do a reality check and not help. he was emotional telling me this event. who wouldn't be, when we are taught to be kind to others? it has to be incredibly confusing to the mind, to the intellect, to our feelings about who we are.
my son is much better now but i believe his personality in areas has forever changed. a casualty of war. i still witness sometimes an anger i never knew from him before. he's still a good father and husband...but i know the ptsd is still there. i can see it in his facial muscles sometimes when he's trying like h.. to control his anger. it pains me to see this but i do understnad he can't help it. he's coming up on 20 years served. he's so young we had once thought he'd go 30. recently i told him something i thought i'd never say and i prefaced it that way...."I do not wsih for you to go over "there" again...if it means retiring, then i need for you to do that." we'll see...
i''m so sorry that you feel you have to "play the role". i do understnad as best i can, why you say that. so many ppl unfortunately do not take the time to understand or have no interest in what you all have been thru. you're right, they just wonder about the ice cream flavor they'll pick. they are living in little life capsules of no substance. perhaps its mostly the "military family" that does understand. we are living the reality of it daily. it's impossible to ignore what we know as truth.
i am grateful i have met you here at pc. i want to thank you for all you have done. i honor you. i will pray, jme, for you and ask that you are given some peace from this ever vigiliant nightmare. i hope you will stay in touch with us here and that you keep writing what's on your mind. it won't change necessarily how you feel but perhaps it will lessen the intensity. you needn't feel that you have to put on a happy face either.. things like this don't trigger me, so if ever you need to pm or choose to, please feel free to do so. love from an army mom,
jan

[Troy]

Your love for your son is impressive, and your willingness to listen to the rage directed at you is extraordinary. It's wonderful that you could separate the rage you saw and what it really was. Reading your words and knowing your reaction brings tears.

You're right ... the rage is still just under the skin and containing it always takes a toll. Those who love us most can see when it's happening. And it's just as scary to us as to anyone else because we don't understand what causes it to surface. When I took some items off a shelf a few minutes ago, I bumped other things and started a little cascade. Nothing was broken, but as things were falling I could feel the rage swelling and pulsing and trying to take over. In times past, I would have thrown things, maybe turned the entire shelf unit over and stormed out. Now, I just push it back and wonder what is wrong with me. This is insignificant. It should not bring rage, not even irritation. It's illogical.

More later......

[Troy]

I can understand just how your son felt about this. After certain events, I marveled at my own actions, thinking, "how can I do this? Did I really do this?" I'm not talking about cruelty or improper actions as far as the war was concerned. I'm talking about the coolness and fearlessness that would over ride what should have been fear and confusion.

In the heat of battle, bullets so thick they sounded like a swarm of bees, did I really call in the air support as calmly as discussing a Saturday afternoon ball game. Did I really call in the artillery and adjust fire without a concern in the world who was on the receiving end ... well, the only concern was that the artillery shells did their work on the enemy. Did I really direct my units to fire and support and move and circle and duck for cover because more air support was on the way. Did I do all of that without feeling or fear and then afterward, alone, in the dark ...

one of the moments that took my breath away was he was telling me about the enemy literally on fire running down the road yelling, help me!!! he said his humanity wanted to run up and help them but he had to do a reality check and not help.

[Troy]

See, Jan, your love and caring extends to others and adds another emotional dimension to all of the memories and recollections. Thank you.

The intensity of ptsd comes and goes as do the memories and as I come and go from PC. I really only found out about PC a short time ago. At first, being here was like a miracle. Mostly chat without the courage to leave posts on line. Then a withdrawal from the whole forum and the chats. Then a rush back when I saw myself falling far, far into that pit I had just escaped.

Now, I post in the forum, sometimes deleting. Sometimes asking moderators to remove things I posted long ago because the heebie jeebies just get to be too much. I almost never read any other forums outside Combat PTSD because I identify so easily with their pain and confusion and find myself droping further into a state of depression without being able to help in any way ... kind of like your son watching the burning man run. Hearing the stories of what has happened to all these wonderful people makes me want to take action to help them ... and to seek out the perpetrators of those atrocities and have a "conversation" with them about what they've done.

And you read all that stuff and wonder why does my insignificant experience bother me so much compared to what has happened to others. In spite of everyone saying not to compare tragic experiences with what happened to others, that's the way it goes. Another illogical aspect of what we see here.

Thank you for not hating the warriors.


i am grateful i have met you here at pc. i want to thank you for all you have done. i honor you. i will pray, jme, for you and ask that you are given some peace from this ever vigiliant nightmare. i hope you will stay in touch with us here and that you keep writing what's on your mind. it won't change necessarily how you feel but perhaps it will lessen the intensity. you needn't feel that you have to put on a happy face either.. things like this don't trigger me, so if ever you need to pm or choose to, please feel free to do so. love from an army mom,