Really need to get this off my chest...

Actually my mother is EXTREMELY critical of my hair She never likes it and never has anything nice to say about it. She offered to pay for me to go to a new stylist, but it HAD to be HER stylist or forget it.

And she was concerned I would embarrass her so she told me to behave (I am freekin ancient aged and have manners directly out of Emily Post). wtf?! I chose to not go.

(I am sorry you guys...the more I talk about it the more embarrassed I feel that I cared so much and got sooo caught up .... most people would have just walked away a long time ago)

I will TRY really hard to never bring this up again

((((Rose)))))

Don't avoid talking about it. That's what I did for so many years, and I'm certainly not any better off because of it.

What actually helped me was stepping out of my sick family. That's what I needed to do for myself.

((((Shish)))) I just looked at the site and read some of the descriptions...that is totally my mother (NPD to a "T"), my sister (N and Golden Chld), my brother (N and Golden Child) and my father (Enabler). Gaslighting, Scapegoating, Triangulation...and ugh...I see it more clearly now.

Oh for God's sake. I feel like such an idiot.

I have so many emotions swirling around inside: I don't know whether to be happy, angry, sad, bawl my eyes out...all the time and energy I've wasted trying to "get through" to them It was all there in B&W.

Why didn't anyone tell me? It is so obvious and clear. My best friend that I've known since we were infants IS AN MFCC. We grew up together. Literally. She saw everything. Why didn't SHE say something?!

(OK, here is another "ahh haah" moment: that is why it's not a fabulous idea to be friends with your T )

***

And the "Low Contact" ... it does hurt tremendously they dropped me like an old newspaper.

"No Contact" is the best and only solution in order for me to even have one iota of a chance of having / living a life.

Thank you so much for the link

And to everyone for the support, kind words and .

(((Rose P))) my mother rags on my hair too. hers looks like a rat's nest. millions of people compliment me when I dye it red, but because SHE hates red hair, I shouldn't do it. maybe we can start a home for rejected adult daughters

I know it sounds trite and corny, but today is the first day of the rest of your life. Now you know that it isn't that there is something wrong with you, but there is something horribly wrong with them.

((((Hank)))), I think that is a FINE idea

((((Shish))) I've been trying to tell them that for years...they all tell me I'm delusional, crazy and irrational

Yes, I agree with this statement Rose, and I really believe that in time you will accomplish this. In time you will recognize that these family members are "simple" and "ignorant" "shallow" people. You will learn to grow "beyond them" and these things that they do out of their ignorance wont bother you anymore.

I am working on that myself, it is a challenge, but little by little I know "we" are gaining.

Open Eyes

The more I think about it, and the more I read about it, the more I think the "someone" that I wanted was someone that they would defer to so I could have the family I so desperately wished for.

In terms of being a grown-up, I see the "someone" as me. I just have to walk away and never look back. Not even a little.

R

(((Rose))),

I hear you, I know what you mean too. Sigh...and it is hard to see the reality about the people we associate with as our "family" for what they really are. And if they happen to be people with "privilage" it is hard to see such cold ignorant selfish people be so sheltered and "safe" where they don't "have" to care as well. I have seen this a lot and it isn't just "you" that deals with this either, it happens to many children who have parents that are self absorbed and view things that "don't suit them, even children as throw aways".

I remember watching the biography of Kate Middleton and her sister Tipper and what they were exposed to once their mother came across an idea that resulted in her making millions. Well, these girls got to be a part of the "upper crust" educational process and they were not "accepted" even though their mother made a successful business. It didn't matter, because these other new peirs were all "trust fund" families that didn't have to find a way to "make a living". These two girls were subject to being "left out" and were just considered "outsiders" and it wasn't easy for them.

One would think that her parents would be respected for making something so profitable. No, they were not repsected for that at all. And those "trust fund" high society people were in a very "me, I, selfish" psychological world of their own. I have seen this in certain areas myself and it is hard to wrap one's brain around, the coldness of it all is sureal. And the identity of the children growing up in this atmosphere? Well, they don't really "have" an identity other than I am the daughter/son of so and so.

It is not unusual for people to want to distance from "toxic" family, but when in a situation when "family" is privilaged, it can be even harder sometimes. It can be harder because as you mentioned, growing up can be full of lots of special perks that the average person cannot even imagine having. These things/luxuries are just there and to all of a sudden have that taken away with needing to "distance from the toxic people in that world"? Well, that is difficult to let go of. And these privilaged people can be VERY COLD and ENTITLED.

I am sure there were many times when Tipper and Kate wished some other girls would enter into the system that could be the new "scape goats" so they could catch a break. I honestly wished that many times myself growing up, if only some new kids could get on that school bus so my brother could catch a break from being bullied. And believe me, it could have changed my world alot, if only I didn't have to see him grow so angry every day and know that "I" would be the one to pay somehow. Oh, I sure didn't know how to explain that fear to my parents, and the thought of them making it even worse somehow, well, that was out of the question, so I just did my best to put up with it somehow.

Human beings can be very "ignorant" and "cold" and "invalidating". I have that happening to me now with my attorney who makes $800 and hour plus. He doesn't see "me". The opposing side? They don't see "me". They are all about "not seeing the reality of hurt, but only seeing the reality of the dollars in the case itself".

As a matter of fact I spoke up to my attorney and talked about his mistakes and his age as well. It was ok for "him" to talk about his age and forgetfulness, but not for me to point out how it is effecting "me". And when I talked about it my attorney's reply was to fire him and find a new attorney, and he knows full well how hard that will be for me. So, he is "entitled" to make mistakes, after all HE IS THE PROFESSIONAL with ALL THE EXPERIENCE AND WEALTH BEHIND HIS NAME. It doesn't matter to him that it is more "convenient" for him and the opposing side to fuss with my case while I am in the middle of my season and have to work. That is not important, they could interact and depose and request when I am not in my season and busy and they all know it, it is part of my case, they can see when I am busy. Sigh....all last year, MY WHOLE SEASON was nothing but depositions that NEVER HAPPENED. THEY "DON'T CARE". I have PTSD, and as human beings the attornies all know it, THEY DON'T CARE!!!! And if I complain? THEN I AM JUST A CRAZY LADY!!!! THEY DON'T KNOW, NOR DO THEY CARE TO KNOW.

"But" not "all" people are like this Rose. Yes, it is very hard to finally "see" those that are "ignorant". And this is something that the "vets" that come home from war all feel. They come home to a society that is basically "ignorant" of the "REALITY" of what "WAR" IS REALLY LIKE.

When someone has PTSD, they are very "sensitive" and they have a very "real" challenge that is not about any kind of "just" anymore. But it doesn't have to mean they will forever be "less than" or "weaker than" others. It takes time to learn how to take this new "heightened state of awareness" and take the steps to finally learning how to "accept" the "ignorance that others maintain around us".

When I say "accepting" Rose, I am not talking about "giving in". I am talking about being able to look at people who behave in "toxic ignorant ways" as people we have finally made a decision to walk away from. You and I and some others in the PTSD forum have been in the "grieving" stage of PTSD. This is when we have to learn to see how sad it is that people we associated with in our past no longer can have a positive affect on our sense of well being. That we are designed to connect with and love our families as human beings, however, the way that these people behave and interact are no longer productive or represent the kind of relationship that is "healthy" for us to be a part of.

When your mother, knowing that you were struggling, talked about a family that had a child struggling and how it would be better for the family if this child ended his/her life. Well, that was a huge "red flag" of the kind of person your mother truely is. And you can already see how "your mother's influence on her own children" presented children with "distorted and troubled perceptions of their own". Even if this so called "family" invited you on a vacation, you would not have enjoyed it at all. You are now seeing them for what they all are and it is actually "sad" to see. And they are all hanging onto a sinking ship that you have actually swam away from. It is much like watching the Titanic go down while sitting in an open life boat.

Why on earth would you be embarassed to express the fact that this is "sad" to you?
There are thousands of pieces of literature that touch on this "reality" that flourishes in human beings. We call many of these writers "brilliant" and "talented" and their novels and poetry and art are revered and considered valuable treasures.

It is a matter of learning how to finally give yourself permission to be okay with what you are seeing. No, it is not a nice reality, but you are seeing it and you "will" eventually find that you are really not alone in experiencing this. You aren't because I am here talking about it and so are lot of others. And it is totally "ok" that it upsets you and yet you continue to keep progressing "inspite of this reality".

At this point, your mother and those that "bow to her and allow her to control them" are no longer people that can provide you with any real substance in your life. Whatever you did while you were with them, well, you learned some things along the way, and you did learn things Rose if you think about it. For a while you had the inside scoop about the kind of people that your mother considered "friends and worth associating with". But that was a pretty "shallow" group of individuals, even if they were people with "means". So be it, and you are one that has outgrown that way of being "ignorant" and "praising the ignorant". And you now know the only "love" they have is "for themselves". This is not an easy lesson to learn, especailly for someone who has emotional depth. Emotional depth does not mean "weakness". Emotional depth is behind the most inspiring pieces of literature created and revered as I mentioned. And someone with Emotional depth can learn to hear the heartbeat of humanity like no other. It just takes time to get used to the rythm of seeing "reality" in other human beings. You are certainly "not stupid", if you were you would still be wiping your wicked mother's shoes. Oh, yeah, that was Cinderella, Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, Dorothy from the Wizard of OZ and many more. And hmmm, wonder how those stories got imagined?

Open Eyes

I do believe I am somewhere in the middle of mourning and the WTF?!!

Me too Rose, me too!

(((Big Hugs)))

I feel that knowone cares

I understand how you feel. I hope that it gets better.

((((AA)))) ... so yesterday, my brother emailed me and 3 other people a professional beauty shot of his new vintage Ferrari. I did not respond.

(((Rose))),

Well, I don't think your brother is trying to "hurt" you by doing that. From what you have told me about him, first he doesn't understand "how" you are hurting and feeling abandoned, he really doesn't. From what you discribe of him, he is on a fast track to I need to find "self worth" and it must be in things because that is what mother keeps saying by how she raised me. You see Rose, your mother felt that just by being a part of "privilage" means that someone should feel happy and "loved". But as you know, that is not true at all. Beatles "Can't buy me love", remember?

You have more depth to you right now Rose, you are standing outside that picture of your family and their shallowness and yeah, saying WTF?, and yet you can see how "sad" it is too. And this doesn't mean "privilaged" people can't love Rose, but what it does mean is that they can unknowingly believe that if a child grows up in "privilage" they will feel nurtured and loved. Your mother only "buys" love, but it isn't love, it is more about her need to feel that because she "offers up privilaged things" that her offspring will "adore and praise "her"". So a vacation to your mother means, "time for "her" to be adored". And that is why she didn't like that vacation idea being "your" idea, that would have given the "power of adoration to you". This is what a narcisist truely thinks Rose, they are not going to give up "their crown" to anyone, not even their own children.

And your brother? What has he learned, especially fresh back from your mother's vacation? "Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the fairest of them all?".

Rose, your whole purpose as a child was that you and your siblings were an accessory to your mother amongst her "friends of privilage". This is why you were so upset about that couple that was "adopting a designer baby". However, a baby doesn't have to be "adopted" to experience just being "an important must have accessory".

The story I told you about me meeting a little girl at a horse show that had the very expensive white show pony? She was crying Rose, why? Because her "daddy" was not there to be with her, that is what she "really wanted most". Yet, she had everything else a little girl could want. And her daddy and mommy? They thought that they were just buying her "love" and didn't have to be there. So, a little girl has to learn that "things mean love" somehow. And even though that little girl who was a very pretty little girl by the way, just wanted her mommy and daddy to be with her, she is going to grow up also in some way thinking that "things mean love and adoration somehow". Her parents were teaching her to become a "narcisist". And I have seen this many times, just in the horse show world alone.

Here is how it goes; We are at a horse show and "my" daughter is there braiding her horse, warming him up and schooling him over fences, making him spotless and getting him all ready for the competition. We got up before dawn to begin the day and we talked in the car on the way and "both of us were together, mother and daughter".

It is close to "show time" and up drives a "mercedes" and a young girl gets out of it all dressed in show clothes. Her horse is all braided for her, and her horse is very expensive, the "trainer" warmed it up for her and schooled it over the fences to tune it up to go into the competition and be ready to "do it's job". This girl hops on her horse, and rides it around the "warm up ring" so the "girl" can get her "posing muscles ready". This girl's parents are not even there in all of this. The girl goes into the show ring the horse is a "star" and she poses herself while the "horse does all the work" and she wins the ribbon. She is a star, and she gets off the horse, hands it to a groom and walks over to her "mercedes" or "farrare" and leaves. And this girl often doesn't even know "how to saddle up a horse" and "would be totally lost if she had to actually "direct the horse in what to do in the showring"". But, she is star and all she cares about is that "star moment" that was bought and paid for by mommy and daddy who never even go to a show to watch.

"Friends who backstabb, and family that "backstabbs" are all people that just don't like it when "they are not the "fairest of all". And it has nothing to do with "your worthyness of being loved at all Rose", children that are "raised to only adore" to make any gains, struggle with the ability to "have their own sense of self worth".
And children that are raised like that also "need to be adored like that too". And that is what you are seeing in your brother and sister.

You don't play that game Rose, so you are threat to your mother in her world of being "adored". No, you can't swim in that water of "ignorance". And the truth is, there really is no "love to breath in" in that kind of environnment. All of that must be showered on your "mother". You cannot have that, she showed you that as soon as you were getting love from that baby she had.

I can relate to you in that I have an older sister who also "needs" to have all the control and "adoration". It took me a long time to realize that my sister "needed" to be the one in charge of all the family gatherings. She "needed" to be like "Martha Stewart" and "everything was just so too". I thought that her and I were "close" but it wasn't that way at all. My sister needed me "to adore her and follow "her" and I was not supposed to rise above her or "challenge" her". As soon as I did challenge her, it was over and she started to need to "call me crazy" somehow.

I grew up truely feeling like I could not "be good enough". I was told that in many ways Rose, yet I did "sneak in my own things". And that is how I always felt inside.
I "wanted to do my own thing" but I always had to find a way to "sneak it in" under the watchful eyes of others. Yes, I would go to the holidays at my sister's but, I always could sit and chat with everyone, I genuinely listened, even to my sister's mother in law whom my sister "hated". I didn't see the 'evil woman" my sister discribed at all. I just saw a woman that was a nice person really, but wanted to have celebrations at her home too, and that was not acceptable to my sister. My sister "had to have things her way "always".

Even now, with my mother being old and my father as well, my sister "demands" control over them and their health care. And because I chose to make a change when I moved my mother into a private room so she could get quiet while she was recovering. That was when I knew I had crossed a very forbidden line. As I mentioned, my sister "talks at and orders my mother around like a child". I don't do that, my mother and I talk and that is what my sister "always hated".

Well, my dad got sick and ofcourse my sister had to be the drama queen etc. I didn't play the concerned audience to her game and boy did she hate that. Well, she took my father to have a driving test to see if he could still drive. And this was a private man who tested older people, he was not MVD employee. But my father was put in a small car that he did not have experience driving, he was asked to drive in a construction zone on a busy road he did not know. And my sister and the man testing my father were talking all about "realestate" which is what "my sister does". And with all the distractions, my father failed the test. And ofcourse that give my sister even "more control".

Well, I talked to my father and at first he didn't want to talk about it because he was so upset. But, he finally decided to get a second opinion from a different tester. He didn't want anyone to know. Well, last night I told him "Dad, I am impressed with you, I totally agree that you should do this test on "your own". And if you let me know when, I will drive you to this tester without my sister even knowing so that you can see for yourself "without her". And my father really like that idea.

Rose, I can "SO RELATE" to how you feel about "not being part of family functions".
I have the same thing because "my sister" controls that whole part of my family, "she has had to be "in charge of that all the time". She has to have the celebrations at "her Martha Stewart, Country Living Home" and she plans it so that I cannot do anything with my parents on the holidays. Even Christmas she has my parents stay Christmas Eve and until late Christmas Day. So if I don't "give in and go to her family celebration, I don't get any "family celebration". And my parents?, they just follow because my sister 'does all so perfectly" and so they just follow and really don't see the "whole picture". Although, my mother has told me, "OE, your sister has always been jealous of you, you have always been so warm and friendly to everyone, and she doesn't know how to do that like you, so she has always felt threatened by you". Rose, I honestly never realized it, I just didn't see it for what it really was. But now I do and I simply cannot even be around my sister without getting really triggered.

I have also watched my sister make some big mistakes too. She gets so full of herself and can be blinded by her sense of "all knowingness" that misdiagnoses happen too. I watched it happen with my parents and even myself.

When I am with my attorney, I can definitely see that "he is the same way" and he "is" making mistakes and just like my sister is "so dam full of himself that he is not seeing that he is actually "damaging" my case". And "just like my sister" when I point out the mistakes, he gets very angry and "puts the blame on me". I know the opposing attorney "hates him" and I cant blame her. I was "so embarassed" in my depositon by my attorney and his big need to "talk about himself including having to say he was not a bad "jew" and "his reunion at his prestigeous law school". It was awful, and completely inappropriate. It was all about "him" being on stage and not even asking the opposing attorney about where she went to lawschool, it was all about "his self importantance" and saying "I am a big successful guy to I am going to win this case etc." Ugh...it was awful and made me sick with shame and embarassment.

Last year was "horrible for me", between my sister and all her controlling to where I was cast out on every holiday and my sister even pushing my daughter into thinking the worst about me, as well as my attorney messing up so much, forgetting so many depositions and grand standing. Ugh, I could bearly function.

Even PC, I genuinely reach out to everyone and I care and see how others struggle.
And I was triggered here too because someone took that wrong, and thought "I needed to be some kind of popular". And they even used the words "competition" and that never was even in "my" mind. And that experience brought forward some flashbacks about my sister, and I had not even talked about that in therapy yet.
I was too busy getting help from T to deal with what my attorney was doing wrong and how that was damaging me and really "aggrivating" the PTSD.

However, as hard as it was, that person did me a favor because I brought that experience into my T who explained to me what it meant. And I finally began to see what it was about me that was "misunderstood" and even considered "threatening".
Well, I see it so much better now, but I still don't know how to get past it. And this is also where you are too Rose. And guess what, we are not "alone" in that challenge.

When someone grows up with a parent or sibling that "needs the control over being adored somehow" that someone can become very confused about how to truely feel they "can" attain a "high position" somehow. There is always some hidden fear of "if one shines somehow" that "shining fullfillment" becomes a target and if it isn't "hidden" somehow, it could be taken away by someone else's mistake that can be "blamed on the one who dares to shine".

The "foundation" needed for every child's nurturing is for a parent to teach that "child" that they already "shine" and that they have the right to pursue whatever makes them happy, but they already have "unconditional love". It is not about "shining" because someone "has something", it is about "shining" because someone already "is something" and is loved for "just that". That is how I raised my own daughter and that is how every child needs to be raised. I made sure that I always told my child and still do to this day, that I don't care what she does for a living, she could be up to her knees in pig dung, and what I will look for and be happy with is the genuine "smile" she wears on her face.

It sounds easy doesn't it? But this "simple message" is something that is constantly missed by so many parents. A child is not an "accessory" that exists just to give "praise and adoration" to a parent. No matter where a child is raised, "privilage" or not, unless that child is given the right to be "loved and appreciated" just by their own existance "first", then they grow up never really understanding how to have "self esteem". Self esteem cannot be bought and it is not in a picture of someone that has a "fararee".

Rose, here is what you say to your brother about his "picture". You say to your brother, "Dear, I love the picture of "YOU", and I love "YOUR SMILE" and that is the most valuable thing about your picture to me. If you were standing next to a pile of garbage with that smile, the picture would be just as nice because "you" with a "smile" is enough for me. "love always, Rose".

(((Hugs)))
Open Eyes

And here is what you need to come to realize too Rose. Your mother, the one who needs to be loved for what she offers up? Well, the truth is that "she is not truely loved". It is at a point where her "family" that remains around her, they just "use her" and "pretend".

You feel that you have been betrayed by your brother and father? But you haven't because, between you and your mother, they "love" you. But the "control" your mother has keeps them in "her domain". This is the WTF element that you struggle with. Your "mother has the power" but that doesn't mean she is "loved".

And this situation can be in the control of a "narcisistic" father figure. Because there again a wife and mother is often "passive and submissive" and often is raised to be that way. Always remember, we are what we know. So often women who marry "abusive controling men" are first drawn to their appearance of charm and strengh, it could be what they grew up around on some level in their own family situation. This is a deep subconsious thinking pattern and the draw is not always seen for the reality of this "strong outgoing persona" that can actually be "abusive" and controlling.

Also, it takes a lot of "guts" to "love someone". It is very common for people to try to "not love" because if they ever did and got hurt? Well, it really hurts.

Most narcisists are "petrified of love". Many narcisists suffered some very deep abandonment when they were children. So they develope a shield and they don't let themselves "love" anyone. However, they need to be adored and have power and they don't give love, they give "things" that send a message of "who should be adored and respected and have the power".

Someone can love a "fararee" because if it breaks down or is damaged beyond repair, it can be easily replaced. And having one is like saying, "I am somehow important because I have this fararee". The "loyalty" to someone who has power, is not about "loving that person", it is only about how they can somehow provide a connection to,
"being repected or having some kind of standing by association".

This is where I genuinely struggle with my attorney. My attorney doesn't "love" anything other than himself somehow. He absolutely cannot understand what I lost.
I really "LOVED" my horses and ponies and what I did for a living. My attorney "can't see that AT ALL". And all he thinks about is his dam "$800 per hour and he is "not a bad Jew" and "he graduated from such and such Law School and Knows this successful attorney and that rich guy and yada, yada, yada. But he doesn't "love" that is weak and pitful and worthless in his world, unless it has a big dollar value to it.

If I give as a person, then it must mean that I need to be "adored" somehow. If someone is raised by a narcisist, or is one, that is how they will see "me". If I write a long post then I "must need attention somehow or pop out as the most somehow right? Well, what would I be gaining really? A narcisist doesn't do this. When I taught children I was not a drill sargent, I only taught privates and I had a habit of running over if I felt the child was on the brink of gaining, which to me was more about them gaining access to their right to have "self esteem". I didn't "make a lot of money" when I taught, and I didn't pump out students like other trainers did. I never allowed my students to have any "seniority" in my barn. That behavior was frowned upon and instead they were taught to share their knowledge and acquired skills with respect to the other students. And I did have students that were "toss outs" from other barns because they were often picked on by the "more worthy wealthy students and had low self esteem". And yes, they did "try" to show some "pull" in my barn.
They quickly learned that this was not allowed and they were going to be a part of a 'team" and they had no idea how to do that. But it was not long before they grew to love that experience. I didn't make any "money" doing that. Usually the rich child gets picked to believe the "need to gain by mommy and daddy investing the most in the barn". That is the "typical game" and the "trainer profits from that environment".

So, if I really care and think about other people? People don't get that, they really don't, there must be an angle. Funny huh?

Open Eyes

((((OE)))) Thank you for your post. It makes a lot of sense.

I guess I just posted that as an example of me implementing "no contact" per the DoNM Manifesto , because what I REALLY wanted to say, I wrote in an email and kept to myself.

Unfortunately, it is JUST a pic of his car He is not in it.
(The only pics he is in are ones with his (hideous) girlfriend)

I know, again, I sound like a baby but it just really frustrates me that he has absolutely NO CLUE!

At this point, I have learned and gained so much from everyone here that I am at the "trying to move on and not letting it upset me" point. I mean, frankly, I am an orphan now with no family (yes, I am a grown up. boo hoo....me )

I listened to a segment on NPR on charitable giving and how the top 1% gives LESS than the rest of the population of people that give.

And giving is UP...even in this economy because those that have experienced life without food or shelter that are now back on their feet understand and have empathy.

When the 1%ers do give, it generally isn't to help others eat, have shelter, etc. It is more giving to an organization where they can continue to "get ahead" in their circle.

Or it just doesn't even occur to them.

It shows me that things are worse than I thought.

Rose, don't you dare take their actions to heart! Do they know about your psychological condition? I only ask because, to those who haven't experienced it, mental disorders can be frightening. I'm not saying they're right (heck no I'm not), but that maybe but your father/siblings are experiencing.

As for 'mom'? I dunno. All I can say is that she needs to get her head checked. Try to be honest and let her know how offensive she is being.

You are completely justified in your thoughts if this is true. My family was unconcerned with me for each of my 6 admissions. I know it hurts, but don't blame yourself, ok?

"At this point, I have learned and gained so much from everyone here that I am at the "trying to move on and not letting it upset me" point. I mean, frankly, I am an orphan now with no family (yes, I am a grown up. boo hoo....me )" Quote Rose.

(((Rose)))),

Well, one doesn't have to be a "real orphan to be an orphan without a loving family". I hope you are seeing that in your time here at PC.

A grown up boo hoo me? Oh, that is not being fair to "Rose". It is "not" unusal for someone to be "grown up" and come to see a reality that is "very upsetting" and worthy of "grieving". I am going through that myself and I have been a grownup for longer than you, and so have other members been experiencing this as well. You truely deserve to be validated for growing up in a "loveless" environment regardless of the materialistic things that were present. I certainly woud not want you to feel that "you don't even deserve to "grieve" Rose. In fact the stage you and I are in in our PTSD healing "is" the "greiving stage". So you have to allow yourself to grieve and be ok with it. And it has nothing to do with being "grown up". And the length of time this stage takes place depends on what each person has to "recognize" and finally "grieve".

What I am doing myself in this stage is not only seeing the reality of what environment I grew up in, how I was abused as well, but also how that became a part of how I interact and am as a person in the now. There were things about "me" that I just did to self protect, but I never understood "where" that came from. There are standards that I have as well that I had to understand how those came to be. And I have "genuine" weaknesses and I can now see "why" I have these weaknesses. And it is "sad" when I think of the "whys" and also think of the child in me that had to find a way to deal with things she just had no way of understanding how to deal with and what it really meant.

For as long as I can remember people have asked me "why I care when I see someone being hurt, lied to, bullied, selling an unsuspecting young girl a bad horse, a trainer that is being too hard on a student, someone who is cheating at a show, and there are plenty of people that would wonder why I would care about helping people on a site that I will probably never meet, why waste my time? they ask. My own husband says, "you care too much". Well, I do, and I didn't know why until I went back and realized how that happened. Honestly, I could not understand how a bus driver could watch my brother being bullied every single day on that bus and NEVER SAY ANYTHING.

Well, here I am in my 50's, all grown up and FINALLY the damage this causes is being recognized and why? Because children are taking their lives because of being "bullied". And that is the ticket, it is often only "fixed" and "recognized to be harmful" when someone "dies" because of it. And then what I think of is that that every day treatment disturbed my brother so much that "it may have caused him to be so angry that he seriously hurt me". I had to live like that for "most" of my childhood. So why to I care? Hmmmmm let me just think about that one.

And somewhere in the mix of my very troubled childhood, I knew my mother loved me, I was the favorite. But that didn't buy me safety because I was afraid to "tell" because it would only punish my brother more and to this day I know my mother would be mortified if she found out. And that is one of the biggest reasons why I didn't have the personal damages put into my case. I didn't want my mother to get hurt and I also knew that because I worked with children it could bring in a strange uneasyness in parents. And I love every child I work with and do my best to have them leave me with a real "sense of self esteem". I respect them more than many of their parents do.

Boo hooing is finally allowing yourself to have permission to grieve something that hurt you and you felt you had to hold it in somehow or that you didn't deserve to feel upset. So if you need to Boo Hoo, you have my permission with all the respect I can give you to do just that. And then I am also saying with all my heart that "it is ok for you to love and comfort yourself" and give yourself permission whole heartedly to heal as well.

And that is what the next stage of healing through PTSD is all about. It takes all the hurt and new knowledge about who we are and why and we learn to utilize what we learn and gain new tools to continue on in a "healthier" way. And that doesn't happen overnight either. It all depends on the person.

So your brother just sent a picture of his car huh? Well, men do love their machines, it is just the way they are, there are male members here that have pic's of their "babies" or "she cars". You can still say, "nice car brother but I prefer a solo pic of you smiling, that is more impressive to me" because I love you.

The key Rose is that just because your mother or others can't express "love" it doesn't mean you can't be the healthy one that "can say "love". There is nothing wrong with having the "guts" to slip that in, even if others don't know what to do with it. They may just appreciate that quiet message more than you will ever know.

(((Nice big hug for you Rose))))
Open Eyes

Rose, I know this doesn't help much, but we have a lot in common. My entire family went on a Thanksgiving cruise. The only reason I found out about it is because my brother was having problems getting a passport and contacted me to find out what to do. Nice way to find out. Every year, my family had a big birthday party for my dad and I was never invited even though I called several times and attempted to find out what they were doing. When my dad died, they showed pictures of some of the events and talked about it like I was there but I hadn't even known about it. I don't have a solution for you. Just know that you're not alone. I have major fears of abandonment and they largely stem from the way my mother treated me when I was little. Now, as hard as it is and I know I'll feel bad when something happens, I've moved across the country without letting her or the rest of my family know. Why should I inform them when they've never offered me the same courtesy. Let me know if you'd like to talk about it some time, and hang in there. That is all we can do.

((((Car)))) thank you for posting. It helps a lot to know others have experienced similar things in the world of weird and crazy-making family dynamics. I am working really hard right now on separating myself from them by No Contact (courtesy of DoNMs).

I could literally drop off the face of the planet right now and none of them would notice.

My mother was a master at triangulation and manipulation. I understand that now.

The only thing now that I feel I did "wrong" was to try to get them (for years and years and years) to see it and acknowledge it, too. But those were the enablers to the destructive behavior.

Rose

Thank you They know exactly what is going on...and I am ignored. The Dx mean nothing to them except that it is an embarassment and inconvenient. If I dare bring a word up about the past, the either hang up the phone, walk away from me or call me names. It is a no-win if I continue to subject myself to them.

How are you feeling today, Rose?