[beatpeace]

My husband is depressed and stopped taking his meds, cold turkey after being on them for 22 years. He is going downhill fast and he is blaming me for it all. I realize he is ill, but he refuses to get help, go to counseling or do anything to heal our family.

My question is... how long do we live like this? What can I do to make him realize how much he is hurting his wife of 29 years and three kids, ages 15, 11, and 9 !! Threats don't work, loving kindness doesn't work, ignoring him doesn't work... I am out of options! Is this a life sentence for us?

Please help me! I am getting desperate! Things are almost beyond repair.

[Perna]

I would call and talk to his doctor who prescribed the meds, see if he has any ideas and then maybe get a therapist for myself and explore what I wanted to do. We can't make another person change/do things they don't want to do. If he's hurting you and the kids, you have to stop/solve that (maybe by taking legal action and leaving or forcing him to leave).

[Rohag]

Hello, Beatpeace!

Originally Posted by beatpeace

My husband is depressed and stopped taking his meds, cold turkey after being on them for 22 years.

Cold turkey after 22 years -- wow! What caused that? Do you know? It's possible you can't know, so here's where calling for help from his doctor [Thanks, Perna!] may be critically important.

Originally Posted by beatpeace

What can I do to make him realize how much he is hurting [his family]?

As you know, depression is an illness of irrationalities. He may not currently be able to "realize" anything approaching useful truth. Given what you've already tried to accomplish, it may be time to conserve your energies for yourself and your children while entrusting your husband to higher and expert hands.

Originally Posted by beatpeace

He is going downhill fast...

Only as you wish, could you offer some of the details of his deterioration?

Wishing you and your whole family peace...

[SophiaFlying]

HI, what stands out for me too is that it is an extreme behavior to stop cold turkey after 22 years........there ((((might))))) be more happening with him..but you need to care for you and your kids. I know its is so easy to say.

[beatpeace]

Perna,
I did call two doctors and both said that they couldn't do anything to help him unless he wants help. I do understand that. They can't use a dart gun... It did make me smile thinking about it however! He isn't hurting the kids at all, and he simply "hates" me silently.

Rohag - Two years ago, he fell off a ladder at work and broke many bones and was off work for 9 months. He did not have a head injury, but with all the different pain meds he was on, "I believe" it greatly affected his depression and it began to get worse two months after the fall. He started to get aggressive, verbally nasty, irritable all the time, and had poor judgement when he didn't have this before. I can't say more than all of these behaviors have just intensified over the past two years to this point where he decided to stop taking his meds. I am not sure it was such a bad decision because I don't think they were working much anyway, but the meds were at least keeping his thought process... somewhat rational. Now there isn't any rational thought.

When you say I should conserve my energies what do you suggest?
When you say entrust hubby to higher and expert hands, what do you mean? Let go and let God? THAT I can do but I can't get him to a doctor. He flat out refuses. He refuses to take any further meds. He refuses counseling. I am out of options except to "accept him" for the depressed man he is and just get on with my life with my children and let him wallow where he is. Even with that, he gets upset that I do get on with my life, make decisions that need to be made...
Will he ever realize what is happening or will I have to leave him in order for him to see what he is losing?

StacyMay - thank you for your words and I do think I may have answered your question. Any other thoughts?
I am so sad right now and need to have a good cleansing cry!
BeAtPeace

[Rohag]

Beatpeace, you can't do what you can't do. What you can do is look to your children's security and your own.

Originally Posted by beatpeace

I did call two doctors and both said that they couldn't do anything to help him unless he wants help.

Once I read a story about a man struggling in the water. Bystanders summoned a skilled swimmer, but the swimmer just watched the man flail at the water. When the man began to sink, however, the swimmer dived in and saved him before he could drown. Later, people asked the swimmer, "Why didn't you save him immediately?"

"Had I attempted to save him while he was still struggling in panic, he could have drowned us both. I waited until the man exhausted himself. Only then would he not struggle against me helping him."

Originally Posted by beatpeace

Will he ever realize what is happening or will I have to leave him in order for him to see what he is losing?

I don't know. This is a heartbreaking situation; I agree -- you are out of options, save to stay or go. Seek the advice of those you trust and know you best.

[MsNiteOwl]

BeAtPeace,

The others' suggestions are valid ones. But your focus needs to be on you, not him.

"Will he ever realize what is happening or will I have to leave him in order for him to see what he is losing?" There may be nothing you can do for him to see what he is losing. You must act according to your and your children's best interests...not according to what you feel it might evoke from him.

Let go and let God?! That may be eventuality. Let go, meaning to tell him, whether he hears or understands that you love him, but you can't live this way and you will support him only if he takes positive steps for himself. But until he does . . . this is the course you will take . . . then let him fall as far as he must to be tired enough of where he is to do something positive about it. That's where you let God take care of him. . . not you.

I lived this scenario . . . not with someone who had a mental illness but with a spouse who, suddenly after 15 years of marital bliss (I and everyone who knew us thought it was indeed marital bliss), just said "I'm gone" and left for a wilder life, another woman and a new child.

I spent several years losing my mind trying to do something to "make him see what he was losing". And finally I realized that in all that time, I should have been doing what was best for me, cause that's what he was doing (at least in his mind).

I wish you well. Please do take care of you first. Put yourself and your children in your mind first . . . because it sounds as though he is already doing that, and it isn't including his family at all.

MsNiteOwl

[beatpeace]

Rohag - Your story is perfect. You are right. I do need to sit and wait and watch. It is at times like this where I am completely helpless and have no control over his actions, that I need to find more inner peace and strength than I have ever needed before. It is heartbreaking..... so very very heartbreaking.

MsNiteOwl - Thank you for sharing your wisdom. You are also right! For a week or so I was able to put the focus on the children and me but it was distracted by "hope" .. not the good kind of hope but the kind that will kill you if you keep holding on to it. It is time for me to face some very difficult facts and the biggest is that this will be a very long journey. I do need to find a way to stay strong, focus on the children and take care of me.
MsNiteOwl what did you do to finally pull yourself out of the muck and make the changes to "put yourself first" ?

I need to make some financial decisions soon. Whom do I turn to for advice?
I want to make Thanksgiving plans, birthday plans for the children, Christmas plans..... Do I make these plans without regard for him? Do I consider that he will be depressed so I don't have anyone to our home?
Do I NOT consider this and just move ahead with the plans regardless of his darkness?
I hope I can find the path where I can do this alone and be confident. His words, looks and hatred ooze into me and it truly does erode my strength. It takes all I have to let it bounce off of me. I am truly in constant prayer because that is my refuge.
Hugs,
BeAtPeace

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by beatpeace

I can't get him to a doctor. He flat out refuses. He refuses to take any further meds. He refuses counseling.

Having been in somewhat of a similar frame of mind in the past, I suggest that the reason for this may be that he just thinks these options will provide no solutions, just "tricks", just claims of help without actual help. And there is some truth to this. Not all who claim to be able to help actually are able to give it. You have to look closely at what is available, and try to involve him in the discussion of how to go about getting help too, letting him know that you understand his skepticism about "help".

[madisgram]

beatyou will be in my thoughts and prayers. you said you are praying....the answer will come. i know what you are enduring is sapping your strength. i agree with others the focus should be on you and the children. he can only help himself and right now he chooses to not do that. i'd suggest you try to talk to him but that hasn't given you hope in the past. could you write him a letter and share your thoughts and concerns? perhaps he would read it and think about what you say and feel. meanwhile i'll be praying too for your family.

[beatpeace]

madisgram - thanks for the prayers! You are precious and I appreciate your input. I have used the writing before and will again once things calm down again. Last night I tried speaking to him about his depression and it got no where.
I am trying to be invisible to him, yet the main presence for the children. I have been successful tonight... One day at a time right?

This is horribly difficult and there are times when I don't think I can make it through another day... but then.. I do!!!

pachyderm - thanks for your words of wisdom. Sadly, he won't even consider that he isn't feeling well. According to him, he is fine. Not much I can do about that. I can't fight the invisible monster. For now, I have no choice but to wait to see if he gets better on his own or if he attempts suicide. It can't stay at this level very long.

[MsNiteOwl]

Dear One,

Basically I got very very mad. I got mad as h*ll when I saw him walking arm in arm to our divorce hearing with his ugly pregnant girlfriend. It took all my strength not to strangle both of them right there on the spot.

I hate to say it, but it took so long to get me out of that mindset of trying to "fix" him and the marriage that I've found myself depressed on his schedule ever since. (Disappearing every weekend with lame excuses so he could be with "her".) And I'd hate to see anyone else with that fate.

If you can find one in your area, or even on line, look for a women's support group. They can give you a lot of good advice. And one hint . . . if what they say angers you, write it down and give it more than one thought later. I found that a lot of the things that women told me that angered me didn't anger me cause they were wrong, they angered me cause I didn't want to admit they were right.

I wouldn't plan on holidays and such excluding him. I would plan on them, but don't count on him participating positively. If he does participate positively, that's great. If he doesn't, it won't crush your plans. And just remember, whatever he's doing, he's doing it because of himself, not because of anything you did or didn't do or say. Keep reminding yourself to be proactive, not reactive.

MsNiteOwl

Originally Posted by beatpeace

MsNiteOwl - Thank you for sharing your wisdom. You are also right! For a week or so I was able to put the focus on the children and me but it was distracted by "hope" .. not the good kind of hope but the kind that will kill you if you keep holding on to it. It is time for me to face some very difficult facts and the biggest is that this will be a very long journey. I do need to find a way to stay strong, focus on the children and take care of me.
MsNiteOwl what did you do to finally pull yourself out of the muck and make the changes to "put yourself first" ?

I need to make some financial decisions soon. Whom do I turn to for advice?
I want to make Thanksgiving plans, birthday plans for the children, Christmas plans..... Do I make these plans without regard for him? Do I consider that he will be depressed so I don't have anyone to our home?
Do I NOT consider this and just move ahead with the plans regardless of his darkness?
I hope I can find the path where I can do this alone and be confident. His words, looks and hatred ooze into me and it truly does erode my strength. It takes all I have to let it bounce off of me. I am truly in constant prayer because that is my refuge.
Hugs,
BeAtPeace

[SophiaFlying]

Men!!!!!!!!!!!!

[beatpeace]

StacyMay - You are so right ! MEN! My favorite line is... You can't live with them and you can't shoot them! Thanks for making me smile!

MsNiteOwl - It takes so much restraint of the emotions doesn't it? For me it is a constant evaluation of "how am I feeling" right now? I change my thoughts if they are heading down a bad path. I use "self talk" , I cry when I feel like it.... I find my times are the worst in the mornings. This morning, I had a dreaded feeling that we may make the news for the next murder/suicide. I began to pray protection immediately. Then I actually text my husband and asked him if he was planning on taking my life. He did answer (which I was so thankful for) and said "no". I went online and did a bit of research and found that 75% of people who do this are depressed and of those 95% are depressed men who are angry. That left me feeling frightened.
He hasn't threatened me in any way except that he oozes hatred toward me and honestly, I am not that nasty of a person. I am not perfect, I have my faults but I haven't done a thing to anyone to cause hatred. He leaves for work an extra 15 minutes early because he knows when I get up. He now leaves before I wake. He stays out of the house, in the garage when I am home, he does eat dinner with us, but will avoid making any physical contact with me, even to accidentally brush up against me. He makes wide turns!
I am trying to put all of this into perspective and hang on to the fact that it is the disease and not all me but I sure am doing some self examination!
Thanks for listening!

Hello, beatpeace. Sorry, I am one of those you would like to shoot. I accept the risk.

My thought is your children are being affected, angry men can get violent and you should consider a legal separation. Here is a link you may find useful:

http://www.womansdivorce.com/separation.html

Go to Attorneys in the yellow pages, look for the section on domestic relations and see if any attorneys offer a free initial consultation. Call. Ask about the process of getting a legal separation. Specifically, ask if your husband can be ordered to leave the home. You and your six children have more need of it.

In many states a legal separation is akin to a contingent divorce. All of the issues that would need to be decided in a divorce will be part of the legal separation too. The only difference is that with a legal separation there is a period of time allowed to see if the parties may want to reconcile. If there is a reconciliation, the legal separation becomes a nullity. If not, the legal separation becomes a divorce.

You might also want to talk to a safe shelter or crisis center. These organizations generally have a lot of useful information, including how to put together a safety plan. See: http://psychcentral.com/lib/2006/ste...stic-violence/

http://www.thehotline.org/ 1.800.799.SAFE (7233) 1.800.787.3224 (TTY)

It is not my intention to escalate your fears. Nonetheless, learning as much as you can now will benefit you. Too, you may want to ask yourself Ann Landers's question: Am I better off with him or without him? Perhaps commencing a divorce proceeding is the better option for you?

Finally, I would be derelict without pointing out that the standard of living for women generally greatly deteriorates upon a separation or divorce.

I wish you well.

[beatpeace]

Thanks Byzantine...... I can't squash a bug much less "shoot" anyone so you are safe!

I appreciate your information. I will keep it. Next week I see my counselor to help me muddle through the question... IS IT ME OR IS IT THE DEPRESSION? If my husband is truly depressed because of his relationship with me, than by all means, we need to do something about this. If it is the depression, then we need to wait it out. He is ok to the children and he doesn't physically hurt me...yet. I think the children are better off with him here than they would be with us apart. I am trying so hard to keep life as normal for them as possible. Yes they don't see us talk any longer, they don't see us hug and laugh together. They don't see many of the things they saw for many years but I hope they see patience, respect, hard work and tenacity in me as we all deal with this.

I really need some help sorting out the depression from all my faults. That is where I struggle the most. I think it is mostly the depression but I don't want to seem like I am so wonderful and faultless either.... So hard to fight this invisible monster.

You are in my thoughts, beatpeace.

[beatpeace]

Life can be so interesting..... Saturday morning my husband got up, came to me and said he would never ever hurt me. He loved me, he hit bottom and is going to try very hard to make things work. The kids and I were on our way out for the day.... For two days things were ok. I was still on the outside looking in, observing and waiting... HE was busy as a bee. He did more in those few days than he has done in months. My first thought was.... mania so now he is bipolar. I have to admit that the happy, busy bee is much more pleasant to live with than the other side, however, I know that things don't happen over night. Sadly, I was right. Since he didn't get "me" back, the way he wanted me to fit into his life, he stopped "trying" and fell back into mr depression. That was... ummm...three days of trying WOO Hoo!!! At least I know this person.

I tried to talk to him but ... it got us no where. At counseling, we discussed the plan of giving him space, letting him find his way through this and for me to reach out occasionally to see how many fingers I pull back in. My litmus test..... I wish I hadn't let "hope" get in there for those three days.
I know God's grace is going to get me through.
Thanks for listening.
BeAtPeace

Perhaps it is a start.

[beatpeace]

Perhaps Byzantine...perhaps it is the start to the end or the start of a new beginning.... I just wish I could order up some additional patience as life keeps plowing full steam ahead and I need some extra time.

Why can't life be just a bit easier?

[ECHOES]

Does he see a therapist?
When I kept having deep depression while on Prozac (and yes, dosage changes were done), I decided to stop taking it.
In my mind it was "Take a pill and be depressed" or "Don't take a pill and be depressed."
So I quit and now I am just in therapy.

I would just gently repeat during calm times that you wish he would consider taking medication again, because you want him to feel better. Ask if he might be willing to just try it for a while again, to see if he feels better. Then after that, he can decide where to go from there.

[beatpeace]

Echoes... thank you for these words of wisdom. He does not see anyone and when he was "trying" he said he would see someone if it doesn't work. I think he has reconsidered this and most likely won't go. I like your suggestion about resuggesting meds when the time is right, peaceful and calm. I will take that recommendation and see what happens.

I appreciate you sharing your experience!

BeAtPeace

[beatpeace]

Byzantine.... if you are there and read this, along with everyone else who has written to me, I want to give you an update on my husband.

This has been a very blessed weekend ! It started out with a difficult Thursday evening, then I was out of town on Friday but Saturday he was very kind and we talked...... I told him I would support his desire to be med free and we talked about checks and balances in our relationship as well as his future medication needs. He has been so OK this weekend!!! I am still taking a very non invasive roll but at least he is talking to me, discussing family issues with me and he even started a fire for us Saturday evening.
Sunday we went to church, out to lunch and watched football and it was a very pleasant day!

I am so thankful for these days. One day at a time.... it has been so nice to see my best friend again!!!
Thanks for listening!
BeAtPeace

That is really good news, beatpeace.