The right kind of blue... do you enjoy some aspects of depression?

You aren't being very kind to yourself with this language.

I don't mean to sound abrupt, but I hate everything about depression. All it's ever done is ruin my life, and if that makes me a whiner, well, there's yet another reason I loathe depression!!

I would give anything to be happy again!

One of the few aspects of depression that I enjoy, is the fact that nothing can truly surprise me in a negative way. I can get to the point where I feel so low that any bad news is expected and becomes the norm. Anything better than bad news is a lift. No one can hurt me more than I do myself, my own pain makes me invincible to the pain others try to inflict on me.

Sadly, I still can be surprised. I guess I am still too naive and idealistic despite it all.
But you have a point. Maybe it is a coping mechanism. Cannot go much lower from there...........

of course i feel that way, that's what makes happiness so hard to swallow, its just not as raw or familiar as sadness. I believe in chemical imbalances, but i don't believe I have one. Sometimes sadness brings me peace in its authenticity. It is a relief to face my sadness and it feels even more rewarding when that sadness is accompanied with a feeling of acceptance. You are very insightful and I agree that misery can be rewarding in the same way happiness can be destructive.


Well, there are many more variations of feelings. Some impossible to express with words.
I think that there are times when it is perfectly okay to feel sad. Deeply sad even... and maybe anything else is inappropriate. I think we demonize the "bad" feelings too much these days. As much as they can be destructive, they are often signal something is wrong. Like physical pain...

But maybe it is what is it. Maybe it is just sadness.... or sadness from past existence. Scars on soul. Whatever. Sometimes it does happen seemingly for no reason.... but what do we know?

Venus, after reading through this I've gone through a bunch of different feelings about the thread as a whole. First I was angry, not VERY angry mind you but a bit hurt-angry, if that makes any sense. Then I thought about it for a second. I have been through some of this before, where people will say you've been depressed "use it!". Use the feelings to create artistic expression or whatever.

I can see how that can get annoying... but how does one deal with their feelings when they come? You can either explore them and see if there is any way out... but what if you are stuck in the Kafka's Castle? How does one survive the dark periods?

But to me, honestly it's not depression that creates any depth. Depression takes EVERYTHING away, at least for me. It takes AWAY creativity, it takes away the ability to think. I can't see anything positive that comes from depression specifically.

For me... I can still be creative often. I am not saying it is a healthy place, as I said, I become hyperfocused and it is pretty weird... but at the same time there is something about it.

My question to you is, what brought you to post this? Do you feel connected to your depression? If so does this connection confuse you, or are you looking to see what others think about it, or if anyone else has felt this way? Does feeling that depression can be positive in some way make you feel better about having to deal with it?

I guess I wanted to create debate and see other's point of view... I guess that happened.
And as for connection... yeah, I guess. It is pretty much felt like this my whole life.
And I guess that seeking light in the darkness makes life more livable. And seeing that I am actually doing some living, maybe... I am doing it right? What would it happen to hate what might as well be part of myself? I cannot change how I feel. I can chose an attitude however.

In a weird way you're almost fighting depression with "well if I'm stuck with it I'm going to make the best of it" and that's good. For what it's worth I've felt connected to it too sometimes. I DO NOT like this, but it has made me who I am for better or for worse.

I guess. Or I simply accept that... "this is it" and I gotta deal with it...



Sophie... I see your point, but I sometimes feel I have to be tough on myself. I don't overdo it. I love the person I am.

2 things come to mind on this topic. I don't know if I would say I enjoy these aspects of it, but I don't know what else to call the feeling.

#1. Creative inspiration. I love art, specifically music. But I don't want to write about pretty little flowers or kittens or happy ****. I find inspiration in the darkness of depression. Seeing the world in a different way like you do when severely depressed can be useful in this sense.

#2. Like I mentioned above, I do enjoy seeing the world in a different way. I don't want to think like other people. Most people bore me. It seems like they never wonder about life the way I do. Is that because of depression? Probably. I like thinking about the world. I like thinking about what it all means...which may be a bad idea when depressed, but it can get interesting. Either way, I do it anyway.

So do I necessarily enjoy it, I don't know. Probably not. As of right now depression has affected, and in some cases ruined, nearly every aspect of my life. It's changed who I am, even when I feel fine because I don't know how to feel fine. But I do see some aspects of it that I don't know if I could be the same person without now that I've experienced them.

No, not at all.
But I love me some Byzantine.

Venus, Either I am delusional when reading your posts or you are delusional when writing them.

That's all I have to say on this thread.

The right kind of blue... do you enjoy some aspects of depression?

No.

I have been gutted and crippled by it.

The non-stop pain and suffering has been sucking the life out of me.

Everyday is a war. I have to fight like hell for anything I have or do.

No.

Venus, Either I am delusional when reading your posts or you are delusional when writing them.

May I ask how I am delusional? And considering that maybe being able to see the light in darkness (but also vice versa, since there is darkness in sunlit days) is what may as well save my life... then if I am wrong, I don't want to be right.

How does coping with the negative aspects of depression in a positive, creative way make a person delusional? I think it makes them pretty brilliant.

Was there a point to that post kindachaotic?

I haven't read the whole thread, but I understand what you meant with your 1st post Venus. I believe good can come out of bad experiences, so there's deep learning and soul searching when a person reaches their low point. Some even find their creative side, like my brother who was very artistic and did his best work when he was low.

With circumstantial depression, these low points sometime spur change so the person can climb out the constraints that are causing these dark feelings. One example of someone who had a positive outcome from his depression is Eckhart Tolle who wrote the famous book - if it wasn't for his dark depression he probably wouldn't have written this book. I don't think Venus was saying people enjoy suffering, but there are sometimes positive growth through bad experiences - the soul journey we all go through.

I havent read all of this thread either. But I can see that some posters have been triggered and may walk away from this thread upset and frustrated.

The one thing I would like to present to this thread is that it is important to understand that Depression can present itself as a result of a variety of different psycholigcal issues or even health issues.

At some point there was a discussion about doctors and presenting the condition to a team, which would include a regular GP, a psychologist, a psychiatrist, and if your a female, a gynocologist is a must as well. And it is important that each person who struggles with depression be their own health advocate and keep working on trying to get to the reason behind the depression. This can be very troubling because if it is a health issue, like something gynocological, a therapist, GP,and psychiatrist may misdiagnose and present a medication that truely doesn't treat the main cause. Antidepressant is not going to change a gynocolgical condition that may be triggering a major hormonal inbalance.
A major hormonal inbalance can create such sever depression that someone may be so crippled they may give up on life. And I know this because I went through this in a couple of ways, 1)I had a bad case of endometriosis which truely effected my hormones along with painful cycles. 2) The endometriosis was surgically lazored and I was treated with a drug called Lupron where I received an implant that slowly released a chemical into my system over several months to stop my menstral cycle so I could heal. That drug had a major side effect of presenting depression and even sending a woman into early menoapause.
I was crippled by depression due to the drug presenting no estrogen levels at all. I was incapacitated by severe depression. That would have been missed by a therapist and psychiatrist and I would not have faired well at all. Luckily I did go to my gyno who resolved the problem with hormone treatment and antidepressants. It took me a couple of months to regain a sense of normal capacity. I also want to add that men should have their testasterone levels checked as well, and I believe they also have some estrogen levels as well if I recall. There is also effects from lowering testasterone that can produce depression as well.

What I have now, PTSD, presents depression also. And it could be mistaken or misdiagnosed as BPD or Bipolar or Mood Disorder and who knows what else because the symptoms of PTSD can present similar cycles of mood as these other disorders. And there is mild PTSD and acute PTSD and severe PTSD. And there is a definite pathology that presents in the brain with PTSD. It is important for a person who has it to understand what it means and make sure the appropriate therapy is applied, without the appropriate knowledge and therapy it WILL and CAN get worse and present very bad depression.

Now, if someone is hearing voices that are not there, seeing people that are not there, hallucinating etc. it is important to understand what that means. There are definite disorders of the brain that produce these symptoms that should not go ignored. And, as in many disorders these issues can cause periods of depression as well.

For example, there was a movie that came out that was based on a true story about a man who was billiant and high functioning, however he saw people that were not there and he actually believed these people were real and he got worse and worse following an enviornment that was all in his mind. This movie was called "A Beautiful Mind". And it took a lot of time for this man to recognize that the people that he thought were real, were, infact just fabrications of his mind that was disordered. Finally the facts of what he had made him begin to recognize that he had to learn how to live his life and know that these people he saw were not real.

I cannot stress enough that for anyone who suffers from depression to take it upon themselves to make sure they find out why this conditon is present. And it is not easy, it requires someone to cover all bases and continue to seek help.

Yes there is a flow that suggests that the answer is medication. But medication is not going to help if,as I mentioned, the route cause is not known.

There are normal highs and lows that present in everyone. And yes we can all learn from difficult life situations that can present some lows. And yes, we can practice some productive thinking methods to help resolve some of the lows and we can even practice meditation that can relieve anxiety that can, if anxiety is not controlled, lead to depression as well through mental exhaustion.

So, think as you will, but, make sure you get the facts and don't just run around in circles with a real issue that could be better addressed by knowing the facts behind depression.

This is the bussiest forum in PC. I am very careful about this forum because, personally with my disorder, I do have depressive symptoms. I don't want to feed into those symptoms by coming here and saying I am sad or reading I am sad over and over again. But, that is because I am aware that what I struggle with has that symptom and it is not healthy for me to feed that symptom.

I also know that I cannot come to this forum and tell someone who may struggle with some other severe depression and just tell them to do what I am doing. All I can truely do is perhaps read what someone is saying and make a suggestion to see if they might be addressing my issue or a gynocological issue etc. But I truely cannot, in good conscience tell someone else to just think their way out of depression.

AND, even though I have had my own struggles with various doctors being misdiagnosed, misunderstood more times than I could imagine. I simply cannot tell anyone "NOT?" to BE CONSISTANT AND GET HELP, KEEP ASKING, DON'T JUST SETTLE. Yes, there is a challenge to seeking help, doctors make mistakes. But someone who struggles deserves to take every step to find out why they are struggling. There are truely some conditions that present DEPRESSION that truely cannot be "SIMPLY THOUGHT AWAY".

FOR ALL THOSE THAT SUFFER WITH DEPRESSION, MY HEART TRUELY GOES OUT TO YOU, PLEASE KEEP TRYING, DON'T BLAME YOURSELF, DONT GIVE UP. "YOU DESERVE TO GET THE HELP YOU NEED TO HELP YOU FIND YOUR WAY TO HEALING".

((((SO MANY HUGS TO ALL)))))

Open Eyes

One thing this thread and depression both have in common is this:

It doesn't want to go away.

I havent read all of this thread either. But I can see that some posters have been triggered and may walk away from this thread upset and frustrated.

I used the trigger icon and I tried to cut down the crap... believe me, you ain't seen all of the things that haunt me... so it bothers me to be called a fake or whatever...

Been going through pretty rough patch lately myself. I am just saying what works for me, what keeps me get going and alive. Why are people allowed to talk of their success stories (and eh, not so-success stories) wiht meds and traditional therapy, but I am not allowed to speak of existentialist approach?

Yes, some have been triggered.... is it my fault? Others agree with me to one or another degree. There are plenty things here that push the triggers in me, but I realize it is my issue.

and as for "thinking yourself out"... I never said. I never said I was "cured". But without the right attitude... you are going nowhere in life, even if you have perfect genetics and all the resources in the world... It is sad fact of current mental health... the borderline black and white viewing of the world. Either depression means you are lazy or it is illness like diabetus, you need to be on drugs for life and if they don't work you are screwed.... I am of the "whatever works" school. But I think many people with conditions such as mood disorders get stuck in bad place because they are hoping for magic cure. I guess this is the thing that triggers me, when I see people are afraid to lifes... and their doctors and therapists and loved ones encourage them in their fears, because of broken brains, chemical imbalance, having to first get the depression under control, then you can live... I just believe that there is "cure" in the traditional sense of the word (as you no longer feel depressed EVER and you can be the "same person you been before")... that is the bad news. Good news is one can learn to live with it, find a way through it or around it... and sadly, often alternative aproaches, choosing somehow "hippie" or bohemian lifestyles and not adhering to society are seen as problem and symptom, when it as well could be a cure....

And I met people who cured serious physical diseases by their willpower. Yes, they were pretty extremist in their spirituality and lifestyle. And I mean, if I ever have some physical condition, I am personally gonna use modern medicine rather than hardcore zen and eating according to ying and yang.

I totally feel you. I don't mean to be bashing on those who do not understand it, but I feel it may be the result of an intelligent person in depression. It's kinda like a Jhonen Vasquez feeling I get.

I used the trigger icon and I tried to cut down the crap... believe me, you ain't seen all of the things that haunt me... so it bothers me to be called a fake or whatever...

I am sure that I have not seen all the things that haunt you Venus. I actually do my best to come forward and post my thoughts to your questions in your threads and I bring some thoughts, even give you permission to question as to question is normal. And I am not trying to attack you in my post here. And I am also for making efforts to embrace one's self and find positives and productive thoughts when we face personal struggles that confuse or effect us.

However for some, just thinking is not enough they truely struggle and need to keep asking for help. And just as it disturbs you to be called a fake, it also distrubs others who do try and can be accused for not trying.

Triggers? Often triggers are a good thing, if someone is triggered that means they need to stop and think about why they are triggered, could be something from their past they never resolved and need to think about more. I welcome triggers, and I truely have a lot of them, more than I ever realized. I have to see what is behind them, it is usually something that I didn't face or resolve in my past.

Often I see people lash out because they are triggered and someone gets hurt or angry and that can be a stinger from experiencing some kind of abuse, something that person just doesnt see yet or understand how to resolve it.

Any one of the members here at PC can be misunderstood because of either their disorder or past abuse that caused some lack, a lack they have not figured out yet. There can also be an assumption that someone is a mean person when they are not, and I see that as well. It is my hope that if I see that happen perhaps I can shed some light in a more productive way rather than just blow up in someones face and assume they might be something that they are not.

Anyway, my post here is not meant to lash out at YOU Venus. I just wanted to address the fact that not everyone can just think their way out. I know this from my own life experience. So, my message is to seek help and keep trying. Depression is a result of some kind of lack or health issue and it is important to not allow ones self to sink into such self hatred that they do something drastic. Along with some of the things I mentioned that can lead to depression I didn't mention the thyroid, that is also something every positive thought in the world cannot fix. I also worry about the constant use of birth control pills, on the pill, off the pill etc, and how that too can effect hormones that can lead to depression, not something one can positive think out of.

Venus I can see you trying, working at your struggles, expressing ideas. My concern was for those that battle depression and cant seem to do that and are triggered. If they respond to your ideas good, if not then it is my hope they dont take it personally and get worse. My overall message for all those that suffer is to keep seeking help. The brain is capable of doing amazing things, yes. It is important to understand what each members condition is possibly coming from and if one doesnt get there by positive thoughts, that doesnt mean that member failed, it just means to continue to seek help.

I honestly don't think anyone enjoys depression. However some do enjoy taking down time, something entirely different.

Open Eyes

"Depressed is happy for deep people".

Unfortunately I can no longer bare feeling depressed AT ALL. I used to get the exact feeling that you are describing: I could be depressed yet enjoy the opportunity to think things through and have a deeper view of the universe, life and all things I'd normally just view through the eyes of somebody much happier than myself. It was a kind of "happy depression" that I was able to feel.

Don't have it anymore though ):
RB ♥

Wow... so everyone who lets depression hurt them and cripple them are just dumb?

Great job.

Or we just don't read comic books

Quote:

Originally Posted by dusty9838 Wow... so everyone who lets depression hurt them and cripple them are just dumb? Great job.

LoL... Okay, you made me snort some chai out of my nose with this one...

And this v made me laugh, too. Thanks for lightening up my day, dusty9838! Like the way your mind works...

Quote:

Originally Posted by dusty9838 One thing this thread and depression both have in common is this: It doesn't want to go away.

Sorry 'bout the chai out the nose thing.

I will admit right now that I have not read this entire thread. I am only responding to the little that I have read.

If everything in the world is wrong, and death is better than life, and destruction is the first step to a new creation (presumably one in which none of us will exist), then I do not think you or anyone could be a "spoiled, ungrateful brat". No one owes gratitude to a world like that. Despair, anger, and whining make complete sense in such a context; if the world is such a horrible place, then we are the most cursed of all beings to be chosen to live in it.

I often come to similar conclusions about the world when I'm depressed, but I do not enjoy it at all. If that is truth, then ignorance is the most precious bliss. Let me drown in it. When I feel that the world is nothing but a purposeless hell, and that non-existence is better than existence, I become really sui for obvious reasons.

I do, however, enjoy some aspects of depression. When I was young, it did open my eyes a bit. By forcing me to isolate myself, depression let me see my environment in a new light. Back then, this sort of experience was deeply calming to me. I can relate to Resident Bipolar; unfortunately, my depressions aren't like that any more. Now I just feel like crap.

Depression has made me more empathetic and compassionate. I understand now what it is like to suffer. I understand that external forces impact performance, and that people who aren't super high functioning are not necessarily lazy or stupid. My parents and their friends are extremely conservative. They believe that they have earned every penny they have, and that they don't owe anything to the poor, because people who are less well-off could be in our position if only they had worked harder. I am glad that I have different beliefs from my parents on that issue.

Some of the conclusions I have come to are hard for most people to relate to, so I don't share them. I don't believe in free will, at all. People are objects, not forces. I truly am nothing more than my consciousness in this moment. The universe is infinitely dimensioned, and everything is true given the proper context. Sometimes I wonder if these beliefs alone are enough to win me my "crazy" title, but I can explain logically how I came to each conclusion.

So, to summarize: depression has been an awful, life threatening experience for me, and I hate it. But it has made me more compassionate, for which I am grateful.

I agree with dusty that natani's comment was a bit out of line. Many very "intelligent" people (if you consider great artists to be intelligent; I do) have been very, very depressed, and hated it enough that they killed themselves. Vincent Van Gogh, Sylvia Plath, Ernest Hemingway... I think that severity of depression and duration of illness explain how likely someone is to hate every aspect of his depressive experience better than intelligence.

I know that this is getting very long, but I have just a few more comments. The "cancer is pure pathology" idea seems good on the surface, and I almost accepted it. But then the biologist in me began to scream things about evolution and development. Cancer cells are so successful at establishing body-wide empires because they are extremely fast dividing, and they have disabled genetic programs that otherwise would have caused them to die. A fast growth rate benefits colonies of one-celled organisms like paramecium (whose DNA we have partially inherited) and it is important for early development. Not every aspect of cancer is abnormal; it's pathology stems from the fact that it is placed in the wrong context. Kind of like moods in mood disorders; mood is a good and useful thing when it is in tune with the environment, but when mood gets really depressed or elevated for no reason, it is pathological and life threatening.

And Venus, thanks for this thread and for your refreshing, nonconformist views. You and I appear to disagree on a lot of things, but I think that if we met each other IRL we would really like each other. I hope that that doesn't sound too creepy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dusty9838 Sorry 'bout the chai out the nose thing.

'tis quite alright...I just used my dunce cap to wipe it off. It was worth it...lol...

I dont enjoy depression, but i sometimes agree that, " lgnorance is bliss." I dont want to be an ignorant, hapoy, shallow, idiot. But if i'm too depressed, i'm crippled and make no difference in the world. Also, i keep wondering, there has to be more to life than just raw suffering. I cant have been created just to writhe in unbearable pain. I'm looking for a balance. I want to keep my compassion and my social compass, but i'd really like to find some genuine lasting joy and comfort. I dont find anything romantic about depression.
To me it's a disease like cancer or diabetes.

...awesome!

couldn't have said it written it better...

that nagging despicable yet rewarding thing!

that...the feeling of knowing it's all kinda messed up but I still love enough to counteract!..

maybe...it's a difficult balance

so...I like being depressed because it's all I got....

I am an expert...I understand it...

I know good also but thats why I am expertly depressed and somehow thrive on it

I explain why....

I am already sad...therefore the things that really upset me cannot anymore..

I am there already

I did not choose this..

but it taints my world...so I see everything darkened..

where is the colour?
the colours?

blues and greens and **** even the reds

it's all shaded

but it's ok

I totally feel you. I don't mean to be bashing on those who do not understand it, but I feel it may be the result of an intelligent person in depression. It's kinda like a Jhonen Vasquez feeling I get.

Maybe I'd tone down the rhetorics to "intelligent approach". Intelligent people can do some dumb **** in their lifes... Been there, done that. I will probably make few stupid mistakes in years to come...

Funny coincidence that yesterday Lady Gaga's new video came out.... it talks about her mental breakdown after being dropped by Def Jam.... disturbing stuff. But good disturbing....

Anyways, Gaga expresses my thoughts in rythm of dance music...

*I'm gonna marry the night
I won't give up on my life
I'm a warrior queen
live passionately tonight

I'm gonna marry the dark
gonna make love to the stars
I'm a soldier to my own emptiness
I'm a winner"

So, I guess I am gonna Marry the Night.... having hard day today myself...

Venus I can see you trying, working at your struggles, expressing ideas. My concern was for those that battle depression and cant seem to do that and are triggered. If they respond to your ideas good, if not then it is my hope they dont take it personally and get worse.


Often it is hard not to take it personally when it is aimed directly at me......