I turn into a disorganized slob when I am depressed. Anyone else have that problem.

I am now being given a new diagnosis. Well, others have suggested it in the past. I have been diagnosed with Major Depressive Disorder. Now I am being told that I am on the Bipolar Spectrum. As evidence for this my pdoc says that there is a very cyclical nature to my difficulties. Well he sure has got that right. I just thought it was due to depression coming and going.

Well, whatever it is due to is sort of academic, as far as I am concerned. I mainly want to come up with better strategies to manage it. There has got to be others besides me who deal with this. Somehow I don't think this problem is totally unique to me. I just don't know anyone else who is like this.

So here is the problem: When I am "UP," I have one of the neatest apartments you could ever be likely to set foot in. I've always been a renter. Landlords and landladies who have stopped by when I was in my "UP" mode, have told me I was the most perfect tenant they had ever rented to. I am not making this up. Even when I was a child, my siblings would ask me if they could show their friends what my bedroom looked like. That's how pretty it was.

The trouble is that I only maintain this for limited intervals of time. When I become depressed, everything goes to blazes very rapidly. I turn into a complete and total slob. Even my gums are bleeding for failure to attend to my oral hygiene. (When I'm "UP," I'm fastidious about hygiene . . . practically obsessive.)

I have hoarding tendencies and they get out of hand too when I am in the "down" mode. Paper work is strewn everywhere. Right now I don't have a clean glass to drink from. I don't have a clean fork to eat with. I haven't done laundry in well over a month. The apartment is just strewn with stuff dropped wherever I happened to be when I finished with an item. Weeks of unopened mail has formed a mountain on the kitchen table. I keep the blinds and drapes drawn so neighbors can't see what a disgrace the place has become.

Now I'm starting to come out of the "down" phase, and I want to get this chaos under control. I want my cozy home back again. And I'll probably accomplish that, or get a good start on it today. I can sort of feel the "hypo mania" kicking in. I don't know if I am really hypomanic, but I can feel a "drive" welling up in me, and when I get it, I sure can get fascinated with cleaning. I just love when I get this way. Soon I will be singing to myself as I work - just like Snow White. I will dart from room to room, working on several cleaning projects at once. I will possibly even become ebullient. And what's more, I will be busting with confidence and telling myself that I'm never going to get depressed and disorganized and sloppy again.

But the cycle just repeats and repeats and repeats.

Does anyone experience anything like this. I would love to know that I am not alone trapped in this bizarre cycle. Is it something that Bipolars go through? Is it the tension between my obsessive need for order alternating with my hoarding tendencies? I was suicidally depressed last week. Two days ago I went swimming, and since coming out of the pool, I'm so delighted with all the opportunities that life offers that I just about can't keep from busting with exuberant hopefulness.

Can anyone relate to even a little bit of this? If so, do you have any strategy for leveling out the extreme cycling? I got put on Seroquel. So far, all that does is make my sleepy, prone to stumbling and very hungry. I stopped the Seroquel and went back on the Restoril (Temazepam) with pdocs permission, and I sure feel better. I should edit this down. Sorry it is so long. Maybe I'll come up with a more concise version later.

This video depicts my "UP" state of mind, that I was just getting into. It started to fade because I didn't get up and start when the mood hit me. I will try to regain this mood. I literally sing this song and feel like how the song feels. It's hard for me to believe that there is not something really wrong with me. I'ld like advice (or just acknowledgement) from anyone else who recognizes this syndrome. I better get going because I have such a mess to unravel. My home that was so lovely at Christmas time has become the Augean Stables. But I'm not Hercules. You'ld have to see this to believe it. Hard even to know where to begin.

I can relate to this. I alternate between the two. I will go on cleaning binges when I am up and then I feel horrible when all my work goes to waste when I am down. I am fairly good at forcing myself to wash dishes and clothes, but everything else goes to heck. I am meeting with my T this week and thinking of asking about cyclothymia as a possibility instead of the dysthimia she currently thinks I am dealing with.

Thanks Sconnie892,

Yeah, dysthymia is kind of the default diagnosis they go to because no one wants to be the first clinician to label you with something heavier. That was my diagnosis for a very long time, until my problems became so severe that they had to kick the diagnosis up a notch or two.

Cyclothymia has been described to me as being on the bipolar "spectrum." One pdoc thought that was maybe what I had. I'ld be interested to know has this been a longstanding issue with you? Do you recognize things that trigger you into one "mode" or the other.

Thanks for mentioning the feeling of "waste" that comes over you when things go to pot. It is such a demoralizing feeling. Also, people who see how things get in my life when I'm not "UP" get so disgusted with me and express such scorn. Like - "You are perfectly capable of keeping on top of things some of the time, so what's the problem that you got like this?" My boyfriend just shakes his head and mutters. He has no idea the pain that comes with decompensating. I am interested to know if you, or anyone checking this thread, has any strategy to try and stop that downhill roll . . . or at least delay it for some time. Good luck in your discussion with your T. I hope you can be understood, because I think it's hard for others to grasp this.

I can relate. I find it interesting you mentioned being in the pool, I was just telling someone what an amazing thing water can do! I too can be a real mess when I get down, then I force myself to shower and little by little I feel better. I think water has healing powers for sure! I wish I knew the answer to stopping the cycle but I don't.

Thanks for your thoughts about the dysthymia Dx. As my t says, "we've been dancing around this topic." I've been very resistant to the dysthymia Dx and part of that might be me thinking it is really something else. I am also very hesistant to start any meds.

I've dealt with depressed moods since I was about 13, but it took 20 years for me to get help. (That's a long story.) I've been in t for about six months now and am slowly learning to identify emotions, triggers, etc. It is taking me awhile since I have 20 years of practice hiding and bottling these things up. It's something I want to talk about with my t on Thursday - identifying the triggers for the downs and figuring out ways to manage them. We did the same thing with the anxiety I first presented with and now that is much more under control.

I too would be interested in hearing what others do to prevent the downs. For me the downs are often very rapid - happening in minutes or hours and then lasting days or a week or two.

I deal more with the "why is your office so messy. It was clean the other week" at work. It's very frustrating since my job is also very stressful right now.

Thanks gma45, I sometimes turn on the shower and just sit in the tub with the water coming down on me. I call it being in the "rainforest." I imagine that I am in the Amazon - in the jungle - where warm rains come down all the time. It can be more soothing than a regular bath. I imagine colorful tropical birds perched high above me, and the rain falling between the leaves of the trees.

Back in the 40's and 50's, a standard practice for treating patients in psychiatric hospitals was to put them in tubs of warm water. A sort of a canvass was put over them so they were confined to the tub. I don't believe in forcing people into tubs, and they no longer do that, but I'll bet it made some people feel better. (Well actually I just googled it, and it doesn't sound like it was done too humanely.)

Rose76 - a post on the Psychotherapy boards made me think about this post. It is about how messy or neat a t's office is. My t keeps her office very tidy and it really contributes to me feeling calm and relaxed. Made me think that keeping my house tidy might evoke the same feelings.

Earlier this year I was struggling with maintaining a cleaning routine. T had me start with cleaning for 10 minutes. That was it. I could stop after ten minutes and say it was enough or I could keep going if I wanted to. It's been helpful to me. I've worked up to 15 minutes, although when I was really down I didn't follow through. I felt bad about it later when my house was a mess, but realized there was nothing from stopping me from starting my 15 minutes again. That's what I did this afternoon - 15 minutes and my kitchen sink area feels very organized right now and I feel better for it.

Not sure if that is helpful to you or not.

Sconnie - Very Helpful!

I'm going to set a kitchen timer for 10 minutes right now.

Glad it is helpful. I use a kitchen timer too!

Look at that. I said "right now" and I'm still sitting here.

Well, this time I really mean it - right now!

I guess I've never thought about this but I also have the same problem. My house is clean on the good days but the bad days it's a mess. I don't feel like cleaning, taking a shower and just like you I really don't feel like brushing my teeth.

I don't know what the solution is to this. My t tells me just to do it but that's not as easy as he makes it out to be. I get all rah! rah! when I'm with t but as soon as I get home it's just easier to crawal into bed.

Bella01 - That you don't know a solution is not greatly disappointing to me. I don't believe anyone knows "The Solution." (It is nice to get helpful tips, as a poster offered above.) I want to extend my heartfelt thanks to you for two reasons.

1rst: just to hear that someone else experiences what sounds very like what I go through makes me feel less desperately alone with this problem.

2nd: To hear what your T has told you, also, helps me to feel less of a complete loser. Because I get told that, too. And I find that advice about as helpful as you seem to find it. A year ago, I told my pdoc that "I guess my difficulties show a lack of character." He nodded in agreement.

They don't mean to be unhelpful. I am convinced they have a very inadequate understanding of what this condition does to a person. I'm not even giving the "condition" a name. It is under the heading of emotional dysregulation, which really isn't saying anything beyond the obvious. What causes it - I'm not sure, and I think they are only guessing, when they come up with stuff like Bipolarism. Many types of psychological impairment can cause emotional dysregulation. The down phase of that cycle seems to drain a person of any faith that doing anything matters. What people tell you can seem so unconvincing because there is no arguing anyone into "faith."

We lose Faith in life, temporarily. We don't know why exactly. And neither does anyone else. That's why I think years of talk therapy didn't do me any good.

I went somewhere the other day where I got treated very nice by a number of people. It is a sort of community center that I am thinking of joining. I've been feeling kind of "Up" since. I hope going there continues to affect me that way. I'll share if it does.

Any tips anyone else comes up with I would love to hear about. Mainly, I am just made to feel less desolate to hear that others wrestle with this problem, too. People who don't can be very hurtful in their judgemental comments. Yes, we all have to push ourselves. The thing of it is - it's not just me I have to push. It's this thing that wraps around me like an anaconda. It has to be experienced to be believed. Being treated kindly and with warmth seems to help loosen the grip of the snake. I wonder does that resonate with anyone?

I've been really helped by this. Now, it's time for me to go set that kitchen timer again. Right now. (Well as soon as I look up one more thing.)

I've just posted about the ?bipolar thing Rose. Maybe it would help you understand where your pdoc is coming from with that label if you check out psycheducation.org? It explains about cyclothymia and hypomania and soft signs that you can cycle without necessarily going to the stereotypical high that we all imagine when thinking about bipolar. It's a whole spectrum. Indeed the original manic depression diagnosis just referred to mood episodes that cycled so recurring depression without anything else used to be labelled that in the beginning.

With regards to the tidying, I'm such a slob now I'm depressed, unlike the neat bordering-on-OCD person I used to be. And it doesn't help my mood when others criticise and call me "lazy" etc. I'm sorry they get down on you for this. I've found a 10 min timer very good for studying and tidying in the past, so glad it helps.

*Willow*

WeepingWillow - Thank you. I will try to find your post on "bipolar." Also, I will google psycheducatio.org. I really am not well informed about Bipolar Disorder. For so long that was not my official diagnosis. So I focused on learning about managing depression. Your mention about the historical use of the term, Bipolar, I found very interesting.

As with other posters above, I am grateful when anyone is willing to share this problem of becoming majorly disorganized when depressed. "Slob" isn't a very nice work and I never expected others to apply it to their own situation. I am touched that you and others here are willing to be so bluntly honest. I suppose we all know the very disheartening disappointment and demoralization that comes when we lose capabilities that we otherwise do have.

I too have been diagnosed as having OCD type traits. When I am organized, I can be super-organized. So the swing of the pendulum is quite broad. Now and then, I think our own insights are as valid as anyone's, including the pdoc's. Sometimes, I think that it takes tremendous energy and focus to maintain being in the "UP/OCD" mode. It's like I've got a "white-knuckle grip" on things. Perhaps, that level of psychic intensity is just not indefinitely sustainable, and eventually collapses out of energy depletion. (Just a thought.) The bedrock under all this, in my opinion, is some kind of anxiety problem. When I'm "Up," I develop nervous ticks. So getting depressed seems to be a way of getting some much needed relaxation.

Thank you also for sharing about how the feed back you get from others can be hurtful and very unhelpful. I've got my "timer" beside me here at the desk. It keeps me conscious of how I am using my time. It's kind of like using cash, instead of credit cards, to go shopping. My time management skills, when I am down, are horrendous . . . not great when I'm up, either.

I never expected to get such understanding responses as I've gotten here. Trying to manage DEPRESSION is just too vast a goal. I'm having more success breaking it down into managing getting some chores done. In that, I have been much helped by this thread.

I'm all screwed up.

For a while there, things were going pretty good - even real good! I had almost 5 days of relief. On Sunday, Mar. 4, I was able to say that depression was GONE.

I'm a wreck today, though. Now I got to climb up from the pit again. Maybe the kitchen timer could help me again.

I hate to be so self-absorbed, but I need encouragement. It's like being in quicksand, again. But, I've gotten better before; I trust I will again.

Hi Rose,
My thoughts of encouragement are with you.
I'm having a rough day too. Here are supportive thoughts for both of us

I'm not sure if this helps at all but cleaning doesn't make me feel any better. lol. I know, that's not that funny. Sometimes when I feel really low, like right now, I continue to clean to what extent I can, very slowly. I do it to try to take my mind off things. I guess what I am trying to say is that the care/self care might have to come from somewhere else, or might have to come first because I can say that getting my kitchen somewhat clean (albeit very very slowly) doesn't really help my heart hurt less. Maybe the horse has to come before the cart anyway (the horse of self-care, therapy, meds, treating oneself kindly etc?)
Hmm. Not sure if that helps at all. Please take what you need and leave the rest... Anyway, sending supportive thoughts.

I just got back from seeing the pdoc. The Seroquel isn't seeming to help. So he gave me a prescription for Tegretol. I go see him again in 2 months.

I get no therapy, meaning I have no therapist. I go to this place and I've lost track of how many meds I've been given prescriptions for. And I am told there are a bunch more that can be tried. Since September of 2010, I have been given prescription, after prescription, after prescription. So that's 18 months, now. I went in-patient in mid-January. It was awful. Since I got sent home from my job assignment in early February (as too incompetent to continue working there,) I've been in really rough shape. But I don't break the law, or bother anyone. So how much of a mess I am is just too bad for me.

My pdoc is a 4rth year resident. He seems like an okay guy. I feel like something is missing in what comes out of me going to this psych treatment facility. He told me that, if I am not willing to continue with how things are, then maybe I might want to just not come back.

I feel very bad.

I think I may go to bed. That's giving up. I wish I was not just giving up, but right now that's all I've got in me. I wish the doctor could have understood.

it seems there are two conversations going in this thread and I'd like to add to the disorganized mess part--I know exactly what you mean! as far as the cleaning goes, I went months with my house out of control. I kept my pets' cages clean, but that's about it. I felt like they deserved a clean home, yet somehow I didn't? I like the timer idea. I also will also treat myself with a good show (usually Gilmore Girls reruns on the weekend) and force myself to get up and clean every time there was a commercial break. it's amazing how much cleaning you can get done in small increments! #babysteps

oh my gosh, Rose! I'M SO SORRY THE DOCTOR SAID THAT! that's just plain insensitive and hello, does he not realize his patients are in very sensitive states?!

as far as all the med switches, does your doc even give enough time to see if the drugs are actually working? sometimes it takes months for that stuff to truly kick in and if you're constantly having them switched on you, you may not be getting a good judgement.

I'm sorry you're going through this. hang in there!

Suki22 - Thank you.

Thank you for your post about getting things done in "small increments." I feel encouraged just to read that another person knows how this state of mind can be. The putting of one foot in front of the other seems a monumental task to me right now. I have to break it down, somehow, in order to not be unbearably overwhelmed. It so helps to have someone besides me articulate the feeling. I will be adding your "commercial" technique to my little bag of tricks. Yes, I have to "trick" myself into not thinking about all that I could think about, because then I will not even try. Just what the doctor accused me of. He has no conception of the amount of "trying" that went into putting my shoes on today to get ready to keep my appointment with him. Like others who have been kind enough to post replies here, I do believe that you, Suki22, don't need me to draw you a picture. You know how it can get. You've been here and done this. There is no explaining this to someone who hasn't gone through it. And there double-sure is no way of explaining to the uninitiated what it is like to have this as a recurring feature of one's life. I am very grateful to feel heard and understood. Why that should feel so gratifying I can't explain either, but it helps a lot.

Thank you for your second post, which is a much needed kindness, coming to me as I am licking my wounds, into which the pdoc managed to pour some salt. I don't think he's a bad guy. I do think that the facility he's in is majorly dysfunctional and that the standard of care there is abysmally low.

I was rude to him. It seems that I am expected to be a shining model of tolerance in the face of highly disorganized treatment. He is the 3rd pdoc assigned to me over the past 18 months. I guess the outgoing pdocs don't talk to the incoming pdocs. So I start from square one with each new pdoc. I used to be a nurse. When I would turn over the care of a patient to an on-coming nurse, it would be expected that I would inform her of anything important that I had learned that might be of use to her in planning the care that she would give. I don't understand the seeming absence of accountability that I am finding is the norm in the way this place conducts its care of clients. During my career, I could have been (and more or less was) crucified for less. They live such privileged existences - these apprentice physicians - unencumbered by much responsibility to be answerable for much of anything. This seems to be peculiarly an issue with docs doing residencies in psychiatry. (Maybe things are better elsewhere, but this is where I am.) I am exhausted with explaining the same things over and over . . . and hearing the same shallow banalities repeatedly . . . about what would be good for a person with depression.

If I could be the person that they want me to be, then I don't think I would need to be going to a psychiatric care center.

The understanding offered by peers is a blessing that never ceases to amaze me. I only hope that, once in a while, I make some similar kind of sense to another in need of empathy and compassion.

It's really been way too long since I last brushed my teeth. The bathroom sink is dirty. I want to clean up around here a bit and attend to my self care needs.

I ran out of some meds. Leaving the pdoc's office, I came straight home instead of going to the pharmacy, like I should have. It was just too hard. In my better days, I managed to do things that were hard. Can't rest on past laurels, though.

Now, let's see . . . set the timer for 5 minutes and spend that time cleaning the sink. Hmm . . . what can I use as a reward?

I still am not doing anything that I need to do for myself. Just am stuck. Afraid to go to sleep.

I'm sorry that you are struggling Rose

Is there any way you can get therapy?? Even just someone to vent to IRL is better than no therapy at all. I have a CPN (community psychiatric nurse) so not a 'traditional' therapist but he's really good. He 'gets' where I'm coming from while my pdoc doesn't have a clue (and isn't interested in finding out)!

Unfortunately it's my experience that there is a very big dividing line between those who WANT to practise psychiatry and those who HAVE to do it (because they can't get another specialty and psych is less competitive). Unfortunately I even know people who have gone into psych because they can't 'hack' another specialty. It's very sad. This is why we end up with pdocs with crap communication skills who don't give a damn, when we truly need it the most.

All the best Rose

*Willow*