[misunderstood12]

I was just wondering what people thought about suicide. I know we aren't supposed to post any suicidal stuff but I just want to know where people stand on the issue.

In my opinion I do not think suicide is selfish. If the one thing I want is to leave this world then why is what other people want for me more important? Isn't it more selfish of friends and family to try to keep people here living when they really don't want to be. Whats the big deal if they are gone because they chose to and are much happier?

I don't know. I could just use some answers on this one. Thanks

[ColourBars]

That's a tough one.... so many different ways to think about it really.

On the Selfish Side:
- you hurt the loved ones around you (from your absense and decision)
- they have to deal with what you left behind (including your problems, stuff, body)
- your parents/guardians spent a lot of time raising you
- you cheat them of sharing experiences in life with you later on in life

On the non-Selfish Side:
- Your choice, your body

However, when I think of "Your choice, your body", I think of my mom saying to me in her funny accent, "I gave birth to you, raised you, gave you everything I got!" then imagining her saying, "if you take your life now, then what was all of this *points at me* for!?"

That's all I got. I'm not against it or all for it. I guess I'm on the ledge of things.

[*freak*]

My stand on nearly everything is that it's all relative. It is so in this case as well. Suicide can be a selfish act and it can be not. It depends on the person and on their situation.

I guess if you just end your life without even taking into account other people's feelings, then I'd probably consider it a selfish act.

But that's not how it usually happens. As far as I know people do consider their loved ones' feelings/needs, but they come to the conclusion that they won't care after all or even that they might be better off without them. That's the depression speaking and we all know how convincing it sounds.

Not sure if this was the answer you were looking for. But when I hear of someone who committed suicide my first thought is "Poor person, they must have suffered too much" and not "Pffft, what a selfish jerk".

[CgRgSm]

I would like to contribute by saying that yes, to me, it would be considered selfish. But that is not a "bad" thing that so many people think is. If you take a moment to read this you will understand. Everything we do is technically selfish. We are ourselves, we cannot float our minds out of our brains and go into somebody else's and think like they do. So of course we do things to benefit ourselves. Let me guess, you are thinking "Hey, I care about other people and I don't want to make them feel bad" but really, we do things so that we can get something out of it. We are bound by our families, people start thinking that they have to do things just because they were always with family. Do you cry for random other people that get killed for as long as you do a family member? Probably not. Humans are selfish beings. Now, hear me out, I'm not recommending for anyone to do such an act. I'm just saying what I think is true, although its not going to matter because you'll think what you think is true. Honestly, committing suicide isn't even a choice, and surely isn't a crime. I don't believe in crime, punishment, justice, right and wrong...etc. People don't make choices, there is no free will. The first time I heard people say they didn't believe in free will I thought they were crazy mentally ill people. But now, I don't believe in it and it is because something has caused me to believe the things I do and don't. Something has always caused me to do everything I do or say everything I say, it's not my decision. Everything will happen as it will, nothing matters.

[Travelinglady]

I, too, have thought sometimes that this choice is nobody else's business. However, that said, I have personally seen how much it does hurt other people, who often never seem to recover. (Case in point, I had a student whose dad had done so, and she brought me his letter. She was so upset, even after a good while had passed. Dad can never come back, and she missed him.)

Sometimes it is done in anger, wanting to hurt others. I find that really sad.

Otherwise, I like to think of the ditty that it's a "permanent solution to a temporary problem."

I always think of my family when I'm getting into that mode.

I believe, then, that it generally is a selfish thing.

[modestmouse_2011]

I suppose in certain situations, where the person in question commits suicide to escape from something, and leave behind major problems for people around them to deal with, (things like debt, children, etc.) suicide can be considered selfish.

But, in general I get really angry whenever anyone refers to suicide as selfish, especially in a negative tone. My logic is, if they are truly miserable and want to go, it is generally more selfish for those around them to try and stop them because they don't want to be troubled. It is a choice that belongs to them and no one else. However, it should be noted that they should try to get the person help to try and combat their feelings. Not for their own benefit, but for the benefit of the unhappy person in question.

[notsomuch]

I will offer this for thought. My dad was in the depths of depression and was preparing me for the inevitable by telling me where documents were, etc. I knew his pain from a personal, inside experience, not as an observer. I could offer him no viable alternatives to ease his pain. Understanding it at this level, were I to intervene in his decisions, I think I would be selfish. At that time I did not think his intents were selfish. But in the end his choice was to stay. So I can't say how I would have felt otherwise. We all know this is not an inconsequential act. Circumstances are different and they can change.

[haier]

i just read the question...and i dont judge you for asking. i think its a very good question, especially if youre debating it. ive been on both sides, when i was 14yrs old i had a major suicide attempt which put me in a coma for 3 days and in the hospital for 3mo. i totally understand the feeling when you have it. you feel like you dont matter, like your pain is too much to handle and you feel like its never going to go away. you feel so desperate for answers and for help. trust me i know how it feels. i was suicidal for a long time, until one day my brother succeeded. i cant express how painful it was for me to deal with his death. we came from a very disfunctional family. we all had a lot of issues. i feel so sad for my brother, i loved him and cared for him. i was so sad that he left and even more so that he did it so violently. when my brother did that i learned not to do that. i learned that no matter how bad things are, suicide should not be an answer. call someone, an anonymous hotline, a friend, a T...but get help. whatever you are feeling is temporary and with help you can learn to cope and deal with things. no matter how bad you think your life is, that is temporary...death is not. i know you have people who love you, i know its hard to think about others when youre in so much pain. but please get help because having a loved one commit suicide is the worst life event that one can experience. i just wanted to let you know, if you need to talk im am here and willing to listen.

Originally Posted by misunderstood12

I was just wondering what people thought about suicide. I know we aren't supposed to post any suicidal stuff but I just want to know where people stand on the issue.

In my opinion I do not think suicide is selfish. If the one thing I want is to leave this world then why is what other people want for me more important? Isn't it more selfish of friends and family to try to keep people here living when they really don't want to be. Whats the big deal if they are gone because they chose to and are much happier?

I don't know. I could just use some answers on this one. Thanks

...I know this might seem silly, but I change words sometimes to suit me better.
so instead of selfish I use 'selfmore', makes more sense to me because it's the opposite of 'selfless'.

I consider suicide to be a selfmore act...completely.
and I am definitely a selfmore person....not happy about it but it's the truth....I think more about myself than about others.
and knowing this never prevented me from suicidal behaviour in the past when at my lowest.

I think it's a valuable question to ask...and recently I have by some fluke of life begun to ask myself the question and it has somehow forced me to consider others more...something I am not skilled at or even very comfortable with.

it's a very good question to ask...

[Bmee2]

Wow! haier...!
This subject is always near. What has helped me is remembering some happy aspects of life...Sunrises, Sunsets, someday getting and caring for a pet...dog or cat. i ask do i want to throw away all my chances at happiness? Do i want to give up smelling the flowers? Do i want to give up making art? Or do i just want to pain to ease long enough to catch my breath? Sometimes i want to punish myself...i think i am so unworthy...but then i ask myself do i want to give up the chance to make amends?

i do not condemn those who make this choice. i am just very sad in most cases. Those who are sick with a terminal illness i believe should be able to go when he or she is ready and able before the illness makes it impossible to do anything. That way the person can pass with some dignity. i know from being a life guard, that the body can only tread water for so long before the muscles cannot function any longer. Many who consider the big S are people who have been drowning for a while in a cold ocean. Sometimes mentally one cannot hold on...fatigue takes over and clouds the mind and eyes. Hopefully others can step in and give you a life preserver or a log to hang onto. Unfortunately, though, sometimes the help comes too late and the person is lost forever. It is sad, but i do not think it is selfish. Even when some try to hurt others by hurting themselves...it is misguided anger and hurt. Those that drowned when the Titanic sank...i do not blame them for not surviving. Thus i do not blame those that die by their own hand. Drowning is drowning. The truth is sometimes you cannot save the person...it is just a very sad fact. haier's brother was someone that was lost...taken over the cold waters of the ocean. Thank heavens haier was rescued in time.

haier, i hope you know you may not have been able to help your brother. i imagine he loved you a great deal and did not plan to hurt you. He just was not able to hang on like you. And perhaps he was too invested in hiding his pain when it was clearer you were in a lot of pain too. Whatever, he was thinking, i am sad too that he was not able to hold onto anyone or anything. i am glad however, that you survived to share how painful it is for those left behind when such decisions are successfully carried out.
A gentle hug to you haier. Thank you for sharing your story. i will try to remember it when the pain is too much and i want to give up.

[BlessedRhiannon]

My brother took his life 11 years ago...and I do not think his actions were ever intended to be selfish. I believe he was in so much mental pain that the only way he knew to handle it was to take his life.

I believe that in most cases, the person taking their life does not in any way intend the action to be selfish in a negative way. The action is perceived as selfish by those that are left behind, because it impacts them so strongly.

When I have contemplated the action, I was actually trying not to be selfish...I firmly believed that others would be better off if I were gone. Yes, I know that was twisted thinking, and I know it was not true, but that was how I felt at that time. I'm sure, though, that my friends and family would consider it a very selfish act, as they would not understand my twisted thinking at that time.

One last thought...when did being selfish become a bad thing? Yes, taking one's life is tragic, and if the perception by those left behind is that it was a selfish act, then that makes it harder to deal with. But, in general, why is being selfish bad? Why is it wrong to do what you feel is right for yourself? This is something I've been struggling with...I've always been taught that it's wrong to be selfish, but I'm starting to learn that sometimes it's necessary and okay to think of myself first, even if it's at the expense of others.

[dazeofdolphins]

Is that really the question? I have had a family member kill himself. I know the mess that is left behind to clean up -. Literally and otherwise. I also know what it is like to want to die. I get both sides. And, I have had great therapy and now I want to live. In the end, it doesn't matter if it is selfish or not. It destroys people and families forever. Shouldn't that be a top consideration? Not trying to ruin your question. Just want to add a dose of reality and reframe things-
dazeofdolphins

[Harley47]

I was struggling how to answer in terms of how I felt on the subject until I read Dazeofdolphins' post. That nailed it.

My reaction, of course, upon hearing someone has ended their life isn't "Wow how selfish." It's sorrow. I can't imagine the state of mind...the pure pain, I suppose, someone has to be in to do something like that. At the same time, I am horribly sorry for the family and friends, who'll spend the rest of their lives wondering "Why did ____ do it?" or "Why didn't I see this?" or "Could I have done something?"

To be fair though, I have not been in that sort of situation. I have never considered ending my own life, and my closest brush with suicide was a neighbor at my stepgrandparent's house who shot himself, and then I was too young to understand. Thus, I can only offer my own opinion, and hope I don't come across as insensitive with more knowledge than I on the subject or offend.

[feary]

misunderstood12, you said "Whats the big deal if they are gone because they chose to and are much happier?"

How do you KNOW for SURE that they are much happier? A person only gets ONE chance at life, one life to live, why end it before it is time to go? Anything is possible...

There is no awareness after death- that's it. What if their life could have gotten so much better later.

It saddens me that people in depressed states feel so negative and pessimistic that they view life with tunnel vision- only seeing one side of it and decide to end it.

Just imagine the possibilities in life...it never stays the same...it is constantly changing

You never know what turn your life will take...

[Nams]

This really is a serious subject. I do agree with a lot of the posters that it entirely depends on the reasons behind the suicide/attempt.
My mother OD'd many many times throughout my childhood/adult years, every time it was timed that we kids a friend or Dad would arrive just in time to fix it. When I was younger I hated my mother for what she put us through but now that I am older and I know all her history, I can empathize a little with the idea that she had so much pain that she just didn't know how to deal with it other than to cry wolf.
With me my auto reaction is always wondering how much pain that person had to feel to decide that it is the only way to stop the pain. I do feel bad for the ones left behind, the ones that actually loved but didn't know how to help but more so for the loss of a life that maybe could have been helped somehow.
Depression is so hard for those of us who do deal with it and get by, we struggle hard & for some it is just too much to deal with......hopelessness can be a terrible hole to dig yourself into and the idea that you can get out easily is probably very soothing to some.
Not really a solid answer to the ? but I think most of us have probably felt almost that hopeless at some point, so can maybe see if not understand the why's as well as being very aware of how our depression affects others already sometimes that guilt just adds to the problem.

Hugz
Nams

[SoupDragon]

For me the first question is what does "selfish" mean?

[lynn P.]

In some cases it is selfish - like the man who recently killed his 2 children and himself because the authorities were closing in on him for the murder of his wife a few years ago. Other times people are so overwhelmed with their own mental pain, where they simply don't think logically or rationally.

I agree with dazeofdolphins. I lost my brother almost 4 yrs ago and its leaves behind a painful legacy. I was shocked and then I got angry...thinking why didn't he care enough about us to live? When a suicide happens, all the pain is forced on the loved ones and that's not fair. The ones left living have to deal with whats left and all the unknown questions that will never be answered. My only peace is ...to think my brother was in so much pain, he couldn't think of anyone or anything. I think suicidal thinking happens in a tunnel. True it may be your life, but it affects everyone who cared/loved the person.

How did I cope - it was a process and probably still going on. I decided to talk about it and not feel shame / secrecy. I also use what happened to help others. Even if someone feels totally alone in the world, that person never knows how they might affect someone elses life one day. I refuse to carry around the shameful 'ball and chain'. I believe we're meant to live until the end and not interrupt the journey. If someone is having ideations, I think it would help to hear from loved ones who have lost a family member to suicide.

[cboxpalace]

No, I do NOT believe that it is in most cases. I can't say all, because in the instance where you have small children I suppose it would be selfish to put yourself before their well being.

Assuming, then there are no children, I'd say more than likely it's not selfish. The people that say it's selfish are the ones that, more than likely, ignored your mental pain and it's their way of coping with their guilt.

I do NOT believe anyone WANTS to die. If we had our choice we'd be living healthy, happy lives. When suicide becomes an option or a thought it's because death is a better alternative to living a life in mental anguish.

Having written all this I'm not encouraging anyone to commit suicide. It's just my personal observations on the subject.

It depends on the motivation for committing suicide.

[depressedalaskan]

No, I do not think that it is. I have been there; I did not care about anything. I just wanted to be gone. I get to the point that nothing matters to me. I beleive that depression is at fault not the person who has tried or committed this dastardly deed. Everyone is sad when someone goes this way or any other way. And we should be. But remember this - depression is an illness - before we can help others over come this illness we need to understand it ourselves. Myself I don't get it. Why do I want to leave? Don't know.

All we can do at this time is try to help others with our illness or any other illnesses for that matter. So I guess, I think death is selfish - it takes away time we should be able to have with the deceased.

[Ygrec23]

No. In my view, suicide is not selfish. At least if you don't have kids. If you're married your spouse ought to be able to take care of themselves. Same for other relatives.

But. BIG but. Suicide is stupid. Very, very stupid. Suicide is the essence of conceit, of bigheadedness, of knowing better than anyone else. Suicide is saying that I know better than anyone what my future, unsuicided life would be like. Suicide is asserting that you, the suicidal person, are smarter than any other person in the world. Suicide is the most arrogant, self-centered, angry and assertive denial of other people's knowledge of anything at all.

Because suicide is the end of your life. To end your life you have to be ultrasure of yourself. You have to know that your life must end NOW. Knowing, absolutely knowing, not wondering or guessing or supposing, that you will never have a better moment in any of your life to come were you to stay alive.

Suicide is being so sure of yourself that you're obviously no longer human. And people who give up their humanity are confined in hospitals. Until they regain their humanity. Which means understanding and accepting that none of us, none of us at all, know what the rest of our lives will offer us, whether we will have pain or pleasure in our futures, whether what we're going through right now is permanent or temporary.

So. The answer. If you don't have children, suicide isn't selfish. If you don't have children, suicide is simply the worst possible kind of self-adoration. Anyone with any degree of appreciation of their own fallibility cannot commit suicide. Because if you are fallible, then it's always, always possible that tomorrow, or next week, or next month will be better than today. Sufficiently better to justify choosing life, not death.

Not selfish. Conceited. That's all. Take care.

[di meliora]

I do not believe suicide is selfish. Many cultures embrace it. In my view, I did not ask to be born, and have no duty to hang around because someone else thinks I should.

[nicoleflynn]

If you have loved ones (especially family members)........they will forever blame themselves or think there was something they could have done to prevent it. That will last their whole lives.

Hugs

[SoupDragon]

I don't think that suicide is always calculated and executed to an exact plan - I don't know if a completely rational mind can get to that place of deciding to, but I do know that a completely irrational, unwell mind can and at that point anything can make sense.

I am still intrigued by the meaning of the word selfish, but if it is taken to mean self centered and self absorbed, I think a decision to commit suicide can be argued to be the complete opposite. Thoughts such as "they would be better of without me", implies others needs are put before those of the person themself, even though these perceptions may be distorted and inaccurate.

I think what is significant is that in my experience, suicidal thoughts always pass eventually - they may return, but them they pass again.............

[InTheShadows]

Hi,

Having been at the depths of despair myself and knowing the tremendous desperation and hopelessness it takes to come to the conclusion that the only way out is to undermine everything you know to be right and true and end your own life.

I very rarely let people close enough to see the depths of my pain. Last year I had let in my minister and his wife. As I sat in my room in the psychiatric hospital contemplating suicide I thought, "Who deserves to hurt more? Me or my minister and his wife?" I ended up deciding that I deserved to hurt more and that meant I had to live.

Here I am. I know now not to escalate, so when I'm feeling depressed I try not to let it escalate to suicidal thinking, planning, and imaging. Still, if I had killed myself it would not have been because I intended to hurt others. I believe committing a selfish act requires the intent to cause harm to others.

Just my thoughts, thanks for the topic.

Q