[Grey Matter]

I was foolish to assume that my mom could be my best friend for the rest of my life. Truth be told, at this point, I think she is more concerned about the ashes in a box then she is about the people who are alive around her. Like me. And most importantly, my teenage little sister who needs her.

I've been withdrawing off of zoloft, and today I threw up. Instead of asking me if I am okay or if she can help, she rolled her eyes and told me it's because I read the withdrawal side effects. She then went on to remind me that she hasn't been on her meds in weeks and no the difference between that and me is that she wont TAKE hers, I had mine TAKEN AWAY. I told her "oh sorry I forgot you have it worse than anyone here. God forbid I'm ill." and she slammed a door in my face which hit me in the face.

This isn't my mom. This is some shell of a person I once knew. We used to be so close. We'd talk and go out and enjoy each others company and be able to hold meaningful and good conversations. All I get now is how badly she wants to be with my brother and how she is the sickest one (as though its some kind of god damn Olympics) and says things like "maybe I'll just drop dead finally" etc.

I feel no connection to anyone anymore. Everyone has gotten so far away from me and I cannot be the god damn savior anymore. I'm done. I forgot that I was meant to be in this world alone. Completely alone. I hate my brain, I hate my life, I hate my body, I hate how badly everyone treats me. I hate having to feel this alone and not have anyone care.

No one cares about the depressive. They'll fade away soon enough.

[Rohag]

Teen Idle, did you throw up only the one time or has it continued? Are you experiencing any other symptoms?

[optimize990h]

Hello, Teen Idle.

Hope you can try the chat room here or online chat at these links:

Depression, Suicide, & Mental Health Links at Suicidal.com -- Depression, Suicide, Suicide Survivors, Mental Health, Mood Disorders, Abuse, Addiction, Recovery, Treatments and More

Kristin Brooks Hope Center - Hopeline
Suicide.org: Suicide Prevention, Suicide Awareness, Suicide Support - Suicide.org! Suicide.org! Suicide.org!
Lifeline

[Grey Matter]

thank you both.

Rohag, I've only vomited the once. But I keep getting brain "zaps" and ringing in my ears and being dizzy, I also haven't eaten because it all makes me ill to think about.

Optimize, thank you for the links. I'll look through them.

[Rohag]

Originally Posted by Teen Idle

...I've only vomited the once.

That's 'good,' otherwise I'd be worried about dehydration.

Originally Posted by Teen Idle

But I keep getting brain "zaps" and ringing in my ears and being dizzy, I also haven't eaten because it all makes me ill to think about.

The week has arrived. Time to see a medical doctor. Again, your therapist/prescribing doctor dropping you suddenly from a psychotropic medication is..."not good clinical practice."

Your mother is a whole other story that can wait until your needs are met.

[gayleggg]

I'm sorry you are feeling so alone. Your mom sounds like she is in no shape to take of herself much less help you at the moment. I hope you can be there for you little sister sounds like you need each other right not. Hope you have an appoinmnet with a doctor soon to get your meds straightened out. Good luck.
Gayle

[winter4me]

I am so sorry TI, I think it is important you see a doctor and get some help for yourself first.
It sounds like your mom really is not, for now, the person she once was for you; her grief has taken a destructive path-----I don't know what you can do about that (?is there any other adult that you could talk to who knows her and might be able to help her "see" how dangerous what she is doing is for herself and her children?)-----
In time things may get better but you can't wait. ((((hugs)))).

[winter4me]

AND, You are Not foolish, and you are no quitter.

[Open Eyes]

Teen Idle,

I am sorry if you have talked about it already, but did you lose a sibling, which would be your mother losing a child?

The reason I ask this is that the "grieving" process is different. A mother losing a child will carry a lot of "guilt" and sense of responsibility and that can turn into a deeper challenge then a sibling who, while suffering a big loss, doesn't have the same kind of responsible feeling.

She may have some PTSD going on and that can cause her to "distance" and "fear to love and attach to the remaining children". This can happen without it being a "conscious choice".

Well, before I get to involved with further explaining, maybe you answering my intial question is in order first.

OE

[Grey Matter]

Thank you all, really. I wish I could respond to you all individually right now, and I will. Maybe tomorrow. Tonight is not treating me well.

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

Teen Idle,

I am sorry if you have talked about it already, but did you lose a sibling, which would be your mother losing a child?

The reason I ask this is that the "grieving" process is different. A mother losing a child will carry a lot of "guilt" and sense of responsibility and that can turn into a deeper challenge then a sibling who, while suffering a big loss, doesn't have the same kind of responsible feeling.

She may have some PTSD going on and that can cause her to "distance" and "fear to love and attach to the remaining children". This can happen without it being a "conscious choice".

Well, before I get to involved with further explaining, maybe you answering my intial question is in order first.

OE

She did. My brother was terminally ill. He died in our home suddenly on August 11th. Myself and my mom found him. He was already dead.

I may sound cold, and abrasive (not to you, just in general with my feelings towards this) when it comes to this situation because I am very, deeply angry. I feel responsible for his death because I couldn't save him. My sister, my father, feels the same. What I don't understand is that she cares so much more about ashes then she does about her living family. She'd rather die then see my sister graduate high school, then see me graduate college. She'd rather die then see life happen and god forbid smile again.

I know I sound terrible. But this is what I live with every day of my life. He died. He's gone. It wasn't fair, it was never fair. It wasn't fair he had a terminal illness and died at 23. It's not god damn fair. It's not fair my mother has to suffer, it's not fair my father lost his son, it's not fair my sister got stuck with me as her singular older sibling. But I realize that there is LIFE happening. That my sister needs help with college applications and homework, and that she needs to god damn eat. I don't tell her "oh maybe I'll die and be with my brother again". THAT'S NOT RIGHT. It's never right and it's never fair.

I understand distancing yourself. I do that. But to treat your surviving children with such minimal regard is so very god damn disturbing. What if I were to die tomorrow? What would she do? Look back on these past months and hate herself more? This needs to end. She needs to take her meds. She needs to be honest in therapy. She needs to stop throwing the rest of us under the bus.

I love her to death. I do. But that woman I loved, that mother, is gone. So I'm not only grieving my brother. I am grieving the living.

[online user]

Sending you lotsa hugs....

Susan

[Open Eyes]

((Teen Idle)),

That is why I think she may be suffering from PTSD. Her behavior and pushing everyone away is a symptom of PTSD. I understand "you are angry" hun, but how she is behaving is the PTSD talking. The person struggling "withdraws" and doesn't want to "love or care" about anyone or anything, there is too much pain and trauma and it isn't even on a conscious level where she can really change it like you want her to.

It really isn't her fault, her brain just could not handle the trauma of losing a child and it now just feels pain at any reminder of "loving and caring about a child". She doesn't mean to hurt you either, she is saying what she is saying because that what PTSD does to people.

She needs to work with a "trauma" specialist and you all need to meet with this PTSD/trauma specialist so the specialist can explain that she is experiencing something "profound" in her brain (not her fault) and "yes" she is a shadow of her old self.

I know this because I have been struggling with PTSD myself, I don't mean to be "less than I was" either and reminders of the trauma are very painful for me and I had very strong desires to just somehow not be here. My family was very "angry and even mean to me" for something I never imagined having happen in my brain, it's hard work and it takes time and patience to heal from. It is unfortunate that you and the rest of the family can't understand "why" she "just isn't stronger somehow", she doesn't mean it you know.

Children expect their parents to "just be so strong" and "know the answers and help the family recover from bad things". But parents are just people and they don't have all the answers and they "can" develop this reaction, but they don't mean to, and they don't do it on purpose either. Losing a child is a very "deep traumatic" thing for some mothers. In fact, Mary Todd Lincoln, never really recovered from losing one of her children, actually she lost all but one. I am pretty sure she suffered from PTSD, but back then they just thought she went kind of crazy.

I know you are trying to get her to see she still has you and your sister. PTSD is often just completely blinding and very unreasonable.

I truly hope she is working with a "trauma specialist", you all should be.

Here is a Link to read.....

http://carolkearns.com/columns/col_ptsd.html

((Caring hugs))
OE

[Grey Matter]

I'm not trying to be upset by that reply, but I am.

I should have said that I am the primary caregiver to my parents. I was the secondary to my brother. I dropped out of college to stay home with him, manage his meds, the lines to his heart, draw blood, when my parents were at work. We were less than a year apart in age. I spent every waking moment with him, and my mom did the same when she could. I am not angry that she has PTSD. I have it too. I am angry that I'm not enough for her to realize we're still alive. I'm not a mother, no. But the pain on me isn't any less. I went 22 years with him. I was his care giver for the first time when I was 12, he was having an asthma attack, and I brought him outside with me. Okay? My life, though not his mother, was as devoted as she was.

I don't need her to be stronger. I don't need her to be anything she isn't. I WANT her to realize she has two living kids who need her and want her. PTSD is terrible, she's not the only one who found him face down, purple and dead in that kitchen. I did too. And my father saw the same thing. She is strong. Or she wouldn't be here.

I'm not angry at her mental illness. I am angry, and jealous of someone who is dead because they get more care than I or my sister do. I am always there for my mom. I am always the rock that listens and reminds her that things will be okay. In her words, I am her "god given solace". So yes. I am hurt that my mother and brother are gone from me. I am hurt that she would rather be dead then see that he'd want her living.

I haven't been mean to her. I didn't slam a door in her face and have it hit her. I didn't deny her care when she came to me about withdrawals. I didn't pull my sisters hair and scream at her. She did. PTSD is awful, but a mental illness isn't a get out of jail free card. You can still do awful, terrible things. And she has. And she wont get help for it because she doesn't want it. I am not saying she can help it. What I am saying is, PTSD or not, what she has done, has been borderline abusive. And it is within my rights to be angry and scared at that. I'm not mean to her. I don't say a word to her anymore. She does the mean herself.

So I'll be stuck with the living dead and a disabled father to take care of before he dies and a little sister to protect and forget that I ever had a life I wanted in the first place.

[winter4me]

TI, You just Nailed It!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You are grieving the loss of your mother, as well as your brother, and in some ways you are the only one left "standing" in the house and it "should" be your mother. Can't believe I missed this-------------you have lost a brother, the mother you knew, the family you had, and you have been left to deal with all of it, and to worry about your sister, and, however angry, about your mother also-----my heart is breaking for you. Every one of your feelings and thought are Normal in this situation. That makes you the healthiest one----what a heavy load.

[Grey Matter]

Thank you, Winter. I am sorry if I have seemed rude, but the time for making excuses for my mom has ended. When it starts to fringe on my sisters livelihood, my own, and my mothers, it's time for this to stop. I am not at all implying that her suffering is false. Or that she is doing this because she truly hates me. I am, however, showing the implications that have come from her suffering and how that is affecting the functionality of what is left of our family.

She knows she needs help. But she cancels her therapy, she tells everyone she is taking her meds when she is not. Her mental illness is telling her to choose this life, if that is what it can be called, and it isn't right. If this was me, they'd have me in the hospital in the snap of a finger. But since it is my mother, she will continue suffering and scaring me and my sister that she will take her own life simply to be with her dead son. And if someone cannot understand how god damn heart breaking that is, I don't know how else to explain it.

[winter4me]

You are not rude. Ever. You have to do what you have to do to survive. You can't fix your mother's problems----I don't know if she can or will.
I am reminded of my late brother in law who did take his own life---when he did that he was no longer the person he had been, no longer reachable, it was terribly hard on his kids, my kids, everyone---because we could remember him overcoming his addictions, being healthy, being the favorite uncle, the best---and in the end there was no reaching him; his poor choices took him to another place where nothing could be acknowledged and all words were lies.............................
Years later, I can say that everyone survived and is doing well enough, even better; but it is still sad to have the "could have been"s drift through now and again.
Sometimes, there really is nothing we can do to help another...
((((hug))))

I can relate..I had a brother who died in 2004, and my mother has his ashes. She told me that I should have been a better sister and been there for him. He was very troubled and lied and stole from me, even hit me, giving me a black eye. So my mother can't understand why I cut him out of my life?? I could go on and on, but really I can relate to what you are going through.

[SeekerOfLife]

Friend, I can relate to what you are feeling. The very people who should understand and support you, dont. Take care of yourself. Remember, no one else can or will. Surely, you can have others on your team. I know its tough. I was abandoned emotionally/rejected by my spouse and children. It took a long time, but I came to realize I must take care of myself. Sometimes i "fall off the wagon". Then I need a lot of understanding and support. Sometimes it helps to get lost in a good book. Or take a nap (but dont sleep more than you need). Blessings.

[gayleggg]

I'm sorry your mom can't be there for you. It's like you have lost your brother and your mother at the same time. I don't blame you for being angry. Hopefully, with therapy your mom can turn things around, meanwhile, you have to support your dad and sister and they need to support you. It's not fair, it's just reality. Hang in there. ***hugs***

[Open Eyes]

"And if someone cannot understand how god damn heart breaking that is, I don't know how else to explain it. " quote Teen Idle

I think you explained it really well ((Teen Idle)). You also have a right to be "angry", and you need to be able to let that out and vent too.

You have been left with a lot of the weight in your family, holding things together and it has been very hard on you. I can hear your anger about that and no one can blame you for having that anger either.

How about you, are you seeing a therapist yourself?

(I don't know very much about your history, I have a lot going on IRL too, I saw your thread and felt your pain and thought I would try to be supportive. So I am not blaming you or trying to say you don't deserve to be validated with "YOUR" challenge
in your situation.)

It sounds to me like your mother is "really stuck". Her failure to "see" others in a healthy way and even her acting out her anger in unhealthy ways is saying that loud and clear to me. PTSD isn't fair to anyone. And when someone is in her condition the anger of other family members and her own guilt and frustration, only makes it worse.

The fact that she isn't taking her medication or bothering to go to therapy is also telling me how she is turning her grief and anger inward and she is beginning to be convinced that "no one will be able to validate her so she might as well give up". That is how I felt too. I didn't even understand "why" I was so bad and I went through a period where I had very dangerous thoughts. There were days that were so bad that if anyone pushed a bit more anger in my direction, I would "not" be here. That is not like me "at all" either. It was progressive with me and this bad part began to take hold of me "three years" after the event that sent me into the PTSD trap that I really never knew could happen.

Look, I am not trying to "defend" your mother or "invalidate" your frustration in your scenario either. I "hear you" and I have also been in many situations where "I" had to be the rock in a dysfunctional scenario too. It was very "hard" on me too.

I don't know what medications your mother was on either. I don't know "her" history, but, I can tell that she is in a decline and she has a lot of anger and internal frustration/hurt and she will "not" improve without help.

I understand "your anger and frustration" and even how you feel there is "no excuse" for her behavior and withdrawal from the family and being "functional" in a positive nurturing way. What I can say is that I had that reaction thrown at me and it only made me worse. I honestly did "not" know how to climb out of "where I was psychologically either". I do not know "what was happening in my brain" that made me so crippled and dysfunctional. All I know is that I was very "stuck" and I didn't know how to do anything but retreat or express anger or utter things like your mother is.

Now, your mother may have been seeing a therapist, but maybe the therapist wasn't right for her. I had that happen to me and I even went without a therapist for a while because I genuinely felt that no one was going to be able to "help me" or understand what I needed. I didn't even really "know" how to verbalize what I needed either, I was just so 'stuck".

I understand that you may have PTSD too, however, you are way more functional than your mother is right now. That is in no way trying to "minimize" your challenge either.
PTSD is "very hard" on families, and it produces a lot of anger and frustration and it creates more dysfunction in the family that makes it very hard on "everyone in that family". And everyone in the family "wants some kind of rescuer" too.

Seeing that "you" are the most "functioning entity" in your family, you need to find a therapist that can "help you" and your family. Your mother needs help and she needs to have the chance to "have exclusive validation and comforting" that none of her family can give to her. And the anger/expectation she has around her is only going to "make her worse". Her brain is "stuck" and she has no idea "how" to get away from that "stuck".

I am in no way "minimizing" your pain and anger either. For the person in the family that is the strongest and is trying to hold things together, it is also very difficult and extremely frustrating and draining. "YOU' need to have a "constant support system for you too". I am glad that you found PC as a source of validation and support, but that is not enough.

You need to find a good therapist that can help you get your entire family into therapy. Your mother definitely needs help and she may need to have that help "forced on her" but if it isn't the right help, she "will not respond well". I know for myself that once I found the right therapist who understands PTSD/trauma therapy and gave me what I needed, I began to be more encouraged to stay in therapy and I began to "improve". However, it has not been overnight for me, but at least I got into a path of healing verses "just getting worse".

I didn't have quite the same scenario as you do, but my daughter tried to "pick up the pieces" and be strong too. I could not understand "why" the day didn't come where I got that ability to "rise up out of the ashes" as I had done so many other times in my life. My daughter began to get more and more angry with me, and I kept descending into depression and began to need more naps and began to get worse.

From where I am now, and understanding PTSD a bit better, I was expressing all the warning signs that I seriously needed "help". Unfortunately my family was never educated in "what to look for" and they just got more and more "angry with me". My daughter uttered the same thing you are saying almost verbatim too, 'There is no excuse". I tried to "figure out" what was wrong with me, but I just got worse and worse. I actually ended up going into a "PTSD rage' directed at my daughter. I could not stop that "rage" either.

After I calmed down, I felt awful and I didn't understand "why" it happened. I asked all my friends and 'NO ONE' had the right answer, everyone had answers but "not the right one". My daughter was so hurt she moved out. That made me feel worse and I descended even more.
My husband was angry with me a lot too. My state of mind got even worse and I became very suicidal. No one believed me, my husband even kept a loaded gun in the night stand next to our bed. Like your mother, I wanted so badly to "not exist" somehow.

I used to be "so close" to my daughter, and can relate to how you describe your mother and your relationship. I had lost all of that "inside my mind" and I did not understand "why" at all. Had it not been for PC, I probably would not be here writing this tbh. I happened to have a conversation with a vet here and we talked about how PTSD can present these very hard days where "the desire to end" is incredibly strong. He said to me, if you pay attention though, "it passes" so make sure you hang on no matter how hard it gets, IT WILL PASS.

I didn't tell my T about these really "bad days" either. I didn't tell him because the one thing I knew I didn't want is to "ever" go back to the psychward I went to after the traumatic event where I just lost it. I was not treated properly there and my stay there traumatized me "even more".

I kept having these horrible days too. It was "sooooo hard" to get through them too. Then one day I got a PM from this vet here at PC and he told me that he chose me to "promise" to get rid of his guns and finally go to the psychiatrist to get help. After he did that, that is when I finally made it a point to tell my T how bad it was and how my husband didn't believe me and kept a loaded hand gun next to our bed and that I had gotten so bad that I got it out and sat on the bed holding it in my hands.

I am glad that my daughter moved out. I would have never picked it to happen the way it did, but she would have never understood the journey I took once I called my T and told him "how bad it really was". That is when he called my husband in to see him and explained that "I was very bad and he had to stop and pay attention and stop invalidating me, being mean to me and learn how to be more supportive".

I keep a vigil in the PTSD forum because I know first hand how incredibly lonely it can be. And often people do respond with " There is no excuse" and they do get angry with the person who is struggling. It is "very" hard on families and each person gets "hurt" by it too.

I never imagined struggling the way I have. I did not understand it "at all" and I did get worse and worse too. I am still struggling too, however, I am not as bad as I was when I just "hit bottom" and could not find any way "forward" at all from where I was.

PTSD can get very crippling and it isn't "fair" to anyone. And each person who struggles with it deserves to have "validation" and "help". Each person is different in what they may need in "therapy and time" to finally begin to "heal" and slowly "make gains" to where they can slowly find their way out of the "deep dark hole" that PTSD presents in the psyche.

I "hear you" Teen Idle, and I am very sorry that you are dealing with this incredible challenge. And I certainly do not wish to "add to your anger and frustration". I am glad that you found PC because it can be a very helpful support venue.

However, you need to find a stronger support system/therapist that you can lean on to get your mother help and also give you the support and therapy you need too.

I understand your frustration about your mother "withdrawing from actively continuing therapy and even taking her medications". Well, that means you need help from a professional that is capable of stepping in and helping you with your mother.

OE

[Grey Matter]

I would write a longer reply, but my brain is not all here right now. But thank you.

We are both in therapy. She likes her therapist, I hate her. But I cannot find another therapist in my area that takes my medicaid coverage. So I am stuck with her. And though my PTSD may seem more controlled then hers, it's simply because I self harm and internalize all that I can. She does the opposite. She is, as odd as it sounds, more open. She's verbal. I am not.

I don't think there is going to be much help either way. Then again, tonight, I am very discouraged and very exhausted. Which is making me very pessimistic. I have my T tomorrow and I'll see if she will actually be helpful.

[Open Eyes]

((Teen Idle)),

What your family experienced is "so traumatic" to all of you. And with PTSD, there is so much anger and "frustration" and sense of loss that is so hard to explain. Your mother may be "more verbal" but I am willing to bet she has a lot of "internal confusion and anger and loss going on too".

You say you "hate" the therapist. Perhaps you should write down what you dislike so much about her or him. A therapist often can be "condescending" or react to a patient in what they "think" might "help" the patient. That happened with me for a while until I could finally verbalize more to my therapist and he began to see how "complex" I was and he changed his demeanor that was so much more "helpful" to me. He explained that often his patients need to be sort of "spoon fed" and they don't really go off and think and learn and research like I was doing.

For a long time I didn't talk about my childhood either and finally when I did talk about it a lot of things came forward that have a lot to do with "why" I developed PTSD and that I also suffer from "complex PTSD".

What I can say about PTSD is that it is very "self absorbing" and often very exhausting too. It truly takes time and "lots of patience" in the healing process.

I am glad you found PC where you have access to others that struggle too and you have a place to "vent" too.

I take things "one day at a time" and some days I do fairly well, yet some days I still really struggle, but not as bad as I used to, I understand it better and I am not as hard on myself.

PTSD depression is different from regular depression too. PTSD is an anxiety disorder and it can be "exhausting" some days and that turns to depression. Talk therapy does help a lot, but it takes "time" and lots of "self care".

((Hugs))
OE