[ToeJam]

A vulgar word to use with depression perhaps, but I’ve been giving that term some thought in the last few weeks. If someone was to say to me that my depression is just an indulgence I’d no doubt and with little politeness tell them what to do to themselves… but this is self reflection and I’m curious if others have been there, done that.

I’ve seen others mention that irrespective of their ideations and intrusive thoughts, the ‘concept’ (possibly a bad choice of words) of being depressed needs to be curtailed in light of real time responsibilities – children, wife, vocational work etc. For me, it’s my wife… economically we’re not in a very good situation + she wants children… and with the biological clock on count down (she’s 33), the thoughts of forcing her to get back into the dating scene makes me see any easy way out a selfish and irresponsible act… especially with the emotional damage it would probably inflict.

This could be excuses on my part, but… but it’s curtailed a lot of spiralling due to dogged determination rather than actually feeling ‘better’.

With that said, the thoughts are still there… and there is always that niggle that should things go pete tong (cockney rhyme for wrong), loss of job, massive breakdown in relationship… some disaster that blind spots me… the control could badly slip.

Things have been better since I’ve been seeing my new T (not sure how hit and miss ‘private’ sessions are, but thus far the quality has been significantly better than nhs)… but it’s a slow process… and odd notions of ‘cliff hangers’ to be continued on the next session… which leads to a hell of a lot of ‘wtf’ and mulling in the down time.

Not sure if I’ve gone off on a tangent but free writing this.

So yes, do any others here see curtaining off their depression (or at least curtailing bad spirals) as acknowledging it as an indulgence… or, could that be seen as repression that could lead to a nose dive into the abyss later on?

[ToeJam]

As an add on and further reflection... there is also the issue that I'm very conscious of the impact my depression has on others.

Back in December/November... things were really bad and I think that was reflected in my posts here. My wife was really good during that time, but once the hardcore side of that dip abated, I was very aware of how draining it must have been on her...

I've as such been struggling/battling any warning signs to a dip as I really don't want to put her through that again.

Perhaps I'm rambling, I don't know... I'm a big thinker and I try to rationalise everything.. so yeah.

[Altered Moment]

I don't think it is an indulgence I think it is a disease. But having said that maybe it is not a bad way of looking at it if it helps you bull through what you need to do. Or maybe it can help you prevent going into a bad one.
I really really hate to admit this but there have been times that I have indulged in my depression. I have had it so many years it has become comfortable and familiar in a way. But for me that kind of means I am giving in to it and not fighting it. I get so tired of fighting and forcing.

[Rohag]

Indulgence? I'm not sure I've ever given the idea much thought. "Indulgence" implies choice and control; my experience of depression has lacked both.

In my case, from the beginning I've had no ability to curtain off depression from any other area of my life.

On the other hand, "dogged determination" and resulting achievements have at times been possible, but that ability diminished over time and then all but evaporated.

[ToeJam]

Originally Posted by Rohag

Indulgence? I'm not sure I've ever given the idea much thought. "Indulgence" implies choice and control; my experience of depression has lacked both.

In my case, from the beginning I've had no ability to curtain off depression from any other area of my life.

On the other hand, "dogged determination" and resulting achievements have at times been possible, but that ability diminished over time and then all but evaporated.

Could be I'm kidding myself... don't know.

The T I'm seeing does bang on about things getting better... and in some ways I really don't want to disappoint her or those I care about by falling down that hole again

Perhaps this is just a notion of self consciousness.

Gah... I do want to soldier through and grit my teeth and perhaps that's where the resolve comes from.

Some days are harder than others admittedly though.

In addition to that, it's easy (for me) to forget how bad things can really get... since on reflection those times seem dream like.

But going back to that time, there was as you said very little choice about it... so could be I'm just having one of those days of verbal diareeh

[paynful]

Sometimes you can make a difference... sometimes it won't matter what you do. I would try to offer some sort of comfort, (since I have no tangible advice) but all that comes to mind are literary quotes that seem... not enough right now.

Do what you can, keep fighting, thank your wife for her support, but... remember... come what may. You have lived through it before, you can do it again.

However, what seems to be your true concern is what awaits you on the other side... it only matters if you don't think you can fix anything what might break. I wouldn't worry about those "things" that haven't happened yet. There will be time enough for that later. Focus on what is in front of you. That is what you can effect.

[Rohag]

Originally Posted by ToeJam

I do want to soldier through and grit my teeth and perhaps that's where the resolve comes from.

Super. If you have resolve - use it, exploit it.

Originally Posted by ToeJam

The T I'm seeing does bang on about things getting better... and in some ways I really don't want to disappoint her or those I care about by falling down that hole again

Personal observation: therapists tend to have a "progress bias" - they pay far more attention to signs of progress than other signs. I guess it's validating for them. This bias, or set of blinders, can interfere with effective treatment.

I personally have trouble not relating to my pdoc and doctors as authority figures to please. In reality, they are there to serve me, not me them, but that's not the bent of my personality. You, your loved ones and your needs are the ones to serve.

As above, if you're having a day of logorrhea, let it flow! Let "it" come out. Later you can sift through the mess for the good stuff. (Pardon the imagery... )

[ToeJam]

Originally Posted by Rohag

Super. If you have resolve - use it, exploit it.

Personal observation: therapists tend to have a "progress bias" - they pay far more attention to signs of progress than other signs. I guess it's validating for them. This bias, or set of blinders, can interfere with effective treatment.

I personally have trouble not relating to my pdoc and doctors as authority figures to please. In reality, they are there to serve me, not me them, but that's not the bent of my personality. You, your loved ones and your needs are the ones to serve.

As above, if you're having a day of logorrhea, let it flow! Let "it" come out. Later you can sift through the mess for the good stuff. (Pardon the imagery... )

Tangent plane incoming (on my part):

Interesting you mentioned that as it was something I addressed with her a couple of sessions ago.

I had a very bad experience with a T must be what... 17 or so years ago and she dropped me like I was a pungent turd (sorry for the crudeness) as like you said, I wasn't meeting up to her expectations.

It wasn't exactly an abandonment issue, but it definitely left me reeling from it and my default was to detach from the situation and have a bit of a "<INSERT RUDE WORD> you" mentality towards any mental health professionals up until about 2 years ago (I've mentioned this before.. so sorry if it's a case of redundant repetition for you if you remember).

I don't want to be in that situation again as the d.i.y route has obvious pit falls as well as adding to self doubt.

She gave me reassurances at the time... but it does play heavily on my mind with the acknowledgment that we are dealing with human beings (professionals, yes... but still human).

If I understand correctly......You are speaking of prioritizing.

IF so, then I am able to do that at times.

I see depression as having a standard....once I am below my own standard, nothing else in my life matters. It requires outside intervention to be bought back up again.

If my depression is above my standard....then at that point it has it's ups and downs. And when it gets like that I have the ability to prioritize and I do so.....
For example if one of my kids were to go to the hospital, my depression would go on the back burner--it would move down as far as importance goes.

Which makes one think that you should be able to "be happy" by keeping busy. But it doesn't work that way because emotions are not involved in keeping busy.

Make any sense?....I tend to not communicate well...

[ToeJam]

I'm sorry that I didn't reply to these sooner, was at work and for obvious reasons I have to be a little bit careful with personal use of the computer.

Originally Posted by paynful

Sometimes you can make a difference... sometimes it won't matter what you do. I would try to offer some sort of comfort, (since I have no tangible advice) but all that comes to mind are literary quotes that seem... not enough right now.

Do what you can, keep fighting, thank your wife for her support, but... remember... come what may. You have lived through it before, you can do it again.

However, what seems to be your true concern is what awaits you on the other side... it only matters if you don't think you can fix anything what might break. I wouldn't worry about those "things" that haven't happened yet. There will be time enough for that later. Focus on what is in front of you. That is what you can effect.

That was a insightful and well written post, thank you!

I do have an issue with control (perfectionism) and you're right... sometimes I do get a little wrapped up in the what if's rather than dealing with the here and now... by product of my upbringing I guess

Thanks again for the down to earth approach... it's handy to try real myself in on practical terms.

Originally Posted by sophiesmom

If I understand correctly......You are speaking of prioritizing.

IF so, then I am able to do that at times.

I see depression as having a standard....once I am below my own standard, nothing else in my life matters. It requires outside intervention to be bought back up again.

If my depression is above my standard....then at that point it has it's ups and downs. And when it gets like that I have the ability to prioritize and I do so.....
For example if one of my kids were to go to the hospital, my depression would go on the back burner--it would move down as far as importance goes.

Which makes one think that you should be able to "be happy" by keeping busy. But it doesn't work that way because emotions are not involved in keeping busy.

Make any sense?....I tend to not communicate well...

No, that was communicated well... thanks. This is kinda what I meant, though I wasn't articulate enough to specify in that direction.

Indulgence was really the wrong word to use so... meh lol.

Your analogy of standards is something I hadn't really thought of before... but I think it hits the nail on the head.

[butterflycaught2]

When depressed I tend to characterise myself as "lazy", until my T corrected that and reassured me I wasn't lazy at all and that I shouldn't use that word to describe myself- ever. Depression and suicidal thoughts (my anti-depressants take care of that, 300mg Pristiq) are never an indulgence, they are an illness. It took way too long to realise this!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[ToeJam]

You're right Butterfly... part of me is sorry that I wrote this topic in the first place.

It's confliction on my part and in some ways and when memory of what has been gets fuzzy... I get frustrated with the thought that I'm depressed... that I refuse to let it define me.

I get frustrated by my social interactions... bareing in mind that I work full time and try to manage all parts of my life well when it's not hitting hard... I guess the walls go up, I grit my teeth and I do a refusal. Dealing with people who know I have depression and do act differently and in one case is hostile... despite my current state.. makes me narrow my eyes and just 'get on with it' while refusing to let them coddle me or believe me to be incapable of my job.

At the moment, that is working relatively well... I am out of the massive dip I had several months back. I still have anxiety problems and intrusive thoughts... but they are not as severe.

But... by labelling it an indulgence (and that very much not directed at any here at all!) on self reflection was denial and kidding myself (just looking back at some of my past topics... which is hard reading for me, I kinda scoff now when I read the opening post here).

So... I apologise.

[Altered Moment]

Maybe indulgence is the wrong word. But your very determined approach to go on in spite of the depression is very brave. Maybe by bulling through and trying to not let it effect you prevents you from going into very deep ones. Hard to say.

[bookmadness]

Originally Posted by butterflycaught2

When depressed I tend to characterise myself as "lazy", until my T corrected that and reassured me I wasn't lazy at all and that I shouldn't use that word to describe myself- ever. Depression and suicidal thoughts (my anti-depressants take care of that, 300mg Pristiq) are never an indulgence, they are an illness. It took way too long to realise this!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I catch myself saying I am "lazy" even when I know logically, in the context of my depression and anxiety, that I am doing pretty well.

Even though I know it's an illness, I think the fact that so much of it is "invisible" to others lends us to be harder on ourselves, never mind that that is part of the illness itself

[ToeJam]

Thank you for that post Zinco… took me some time to absorb it, but yes… it could be that.. or just an ingrained part of me that fights.

Over the years that side has been battered down, but I think it is part of my make up… reminds me of the song by Simon And Garfunkle ‘I am a rock’.

As a child I was a battler… not in the physical punching sense… but I would brush myself off and keep going regardless of bouts of illness, bullying (home and at school) or tricky spots I landed myself in.

That child is long long gone, but there are ‘times’ (chronic depression falls knock that all to crap) the focuss comes to the fore and the walls go up.

It’s these times that I want to try to keep hold of for as long as I can.

Not going to fool myself though, depression comes in cycles for me… so, I have to remind myself of those times and what tools I used to get back to here… and likewise, when I’m in those cycles… I need to remind myself of what can be if I just ‘ride it out’.

[chromegirl]

ToeJam...maybe I am really off here...but what I read between the lines is that you have an urge to take care of others, to please them in some way. You want to be fair to your wife and to live up to your therapist's standards...because of course your therapist wants to see improvement. I think you have to be careful here. If you are depressed, your main priority really has to be to do what you have to do to get out of your depressed state. Be authentic. Yes, acknowledge your wife's support but be true at the same time. Same thing with your therapist. I liken it to putting on your own oxygen mask first when the plane goes down...particularly in reference to your wife.

I hope that makes sense...I am only on my first coffee this morning