Obsessing and running out of hope...

I'm not really up for a lengthy explanation right now, though feel free to ask. The short version is that I become more convinced every day that my life is hopeless, and there's nothing I can do about it, and the sole reason for it is my low IQ.

The worst part of it is that it can't be fixed. Intelligence is your inherent capacity to learn, as well as to notice patterns and connections. Well, I've never had any capacity to notice those things. Nor have I ever had an exceptional memory, or be insightful, or had any ability to think for myself; no creativity, no problem-solving ability and almost no ability to learn. No capacity for meaningful experiences either, seeing as emotional sensitivity is correlated with IQ (and I'm basically anesthetized to things like beauty).

The most painful part for me is knowing how I've lived most of my life a lie, and I keep wanting to do so. I'm not intelligent, I need to stop pretending I am. I need to stop thinking about things (an acquired habit, along with questioning things), stop reading "difficult" books. I need to stop getting stressed about abstractions, not because it's useless but because it's reaching above my intellectual station. I definitely need to kill this desire to learn, it's pretty numbed anyway, but it's useless. I can't learn, so I might as well give up wanting it.

I always seem to end up in the company of people 2-5 standard deviations above myself. It's demoralizing. Most of my thoughts come from outside sources, if I think by myself I come to the completely wrong conclusions. It's time to give up. But I don't see the point of living such an empty, hollow, boring life with no potential for meaning. But I'm also too attached to living and too afraid to die yet.

This went on longer than I wanted. Maybe I'll post updates, seeing as I actually wanted to spend today in self-improvement before this hit (last night, in fact). See what happens.

Thanks for listening, I know I go on about the same stuff.

So it looks like I'll just have another lazy day of music, reading, and videos.

I WS going through my Youtube subscriptions and remembered something. I'm subscribed to a few channels for meditation and hypnosis tracks, and have a small downloaded collection of these MP3s... including several that are supposed to increase intelligence. How literally I believe in them is sketchy. I guess I thought they could at least act like motivation.

I still have some that are basically CG voices telling you you are brilliant, a genius, exceptionally skilled at whatever. I checked one of the original channels and there was a new one for an "IQ explosion - unleash your genius" or something like that. What I'm taking too long to say is it hurts to look at these now. Forget listening to them. You can't improve your intelligence. No amount of telling me I'm good at math is going to make me good at math, seeing as even effort won't fix that.

There are tracks for other things: work ethic, confidence, releasing guilt, being attractive... but the idea that I could turn myself intelligent with some aural stimulation and the right study materials... its such a joke. And I'm such a failure. No real intelligent person has to implant into their minds that they're competent. And besides, work is just a sign of stupidity and inferiority anyway. The gifted don't need to work because everything is easy and obvious to them.

On another note, before I end this post, I've felt before like I was changing, mentally, for the better. Questioning and thinking more thoroughly is getting more natural despite my age. I notice inconsistencies and irrational things where I would normally be to caught up in the narrative - not as well as an actual smart person, but better than usual. Skepticism is becoming more natural. But I learned all this, I picked it up from spending time online with people who are naturally like this until it became more habitual, originally because I wanted to fit in. It means nothing, it's worthless. They say you should surround yourself with people smarter than yourself; I find that's a good way to feel like a failure and a fraud.

Now I know why I don't do online diaries: I write too much.

You should know that the whole idea behind IQ intelligence quotient is an old theory. It is rejected by most modern educators, neuroscientists, psychologists etc. the truth is much more complex. The brain is much more complex. The whole idea of IQ is that intelligence or the ability to learn is easily quantifiable-take one test, get a score, it will tell everything. In the 1950's when a lot less was known about the brain, this seemed logical.
Knowing what we know now, it is completely illogical. How could one test or one set of arbitrary standards, whatever tell your capacity to learn? For instance, who has more capacity for learning, a computer tech who takes to programming or a ballerina who can recall and execute every single step and movement in an entire 3 hour ballet? (It's not muscle memory.) both are extremely difficult to learn.

IQ tests and the idea of IQ are still used because they are simple, easy, and locked in the public mind as having great validity. The truth is they don't.

So much of what people consider intelligence or talent is really hard work in disguise. For instance, my sister is well known for her work in a part of computing and computer science that is considered cutting edge. Many people say she in incredibly intelligent and has a great talent with computers. I love my sister what she has accomplished with very little outside help is amazing. But I grew up with her. I remember her trying to learn the program on night's so late my mother threatened to pull the computer plug out of the socket, so she would sleep. My sister wasn't necessarily a natural at computer programming. So what? she worked really hard and far surpassed any of her classmates in programming class.

I got better grades than her in school. I have a higher IQ (which is meaningless). I have never been able to learn in depth computer programming. I don't want to do the work to master it.

What I am trying to tell you is really you seem to be obsessing about something that really doesn't mean anything. Comparing yourself to others in any way, you will fall short, because you will never know their whole story. I have gotten to a point in my life rather than competing with my sister, I am proud of her. I am proud of me too. Different lives, different paths, different accomplishments.

I hope this helps in some way.

Thanks. I really, really want to believe you. I really want to believe full well that working to accomplish something isn't some shameful thing and that skills acquired via hard work are valid, but....

Here's the thing. You literally can't deny that some people are born with vastly superior abilities and mindsets, and are just naturally better people (or at least that's how I see it...people tell me this isn't necessarily the case). And seeing as you miss out on so much if you aren't on that level, I don't know if I can see the point of living.

Do you know how the gifted see us average people? We disgust them. They think we're impossibly slow, lazy, and illogical, effectively deficient children of larger size. We frustrate them and get in their way. We're useless wastes of space, pathetic excuses for life. We're perpetually incompetent in their eyes, and the effort we need to expend to be on their level is astonishing to them.

And it's killing me to know that that's what I am. That's how I appear to the people who matter. And there's nothing I can do to improve it. I can't learn to learn faster or recognize patterns or see connections between topics. I can't learn to think more efficiently. I'm stuck in this mire of failure and no pathetic effort is going to change what I am.

The point is how futile everything looks. How can I even enjoy learning or creating with full awareness of my place in the world? I know immersing myself in learning and self-improvment would help me, but if I'll only fail, why try and subject myself to more pain?

I'm stuck is all. I've always wanted accomplishments, accolades, recognition - but have always believed that actually working for it is vulgar. And it's quite clear I don't have any natural talent in anything, except maybe writing (which people keep commenting on...seriously, my writing online is just my inner monologue, that's why I ramble so much). I don't really know what to do with myself.

Oh dear I disagree with this on every level. If you really had a low IQ would not be aware of it and so you would feel just fine.
There are geniuses of course but most people in pretty much the same and a few points on whatever IQ scale you are using makes no real difference.
Are you sure you're not using your anxieties about IQ to beat yourself up about something else?
Other than that your posts seem remarkably intelligent to me.

I've wondered about this, or something like it. I don't know. Anything intelligence-related just touches such a raw nerve with me finding the root cause of it is hard.

The only thing I could be using IQ as a stand-in for is just plain old failure. Because I've had a lot of that, and IQ tests coming back saying I'm only at 101 seem to confirm that that failure is all I'm capable of...

You really have talked yourself into an obsession about this. Could this be OCD?

Gifted people do not think others are beneath them. They are busy doing things and having ideas. The smartest people are the ones who ask questions.

Where did you even get this idea that you are not gifted and have a low IQ?

Some of the most successful people I know are just average people who push themselves.

We never stop learning. IQ measures your capacity to learn. You say you are reading and always trying to better yourself. You are always getting smarter!

I think it would help you to see a therapist about this obsessive thinking. It is not serving you.

You know, I've wondered if it's a disorder myself. It hurts enough it should be. I tried bringing it up with a therapist once, and got blown off. Told me something like "well, of course you're smart, you're fine!"

About myself: Supposedly I was smart as a kid. Allegedly, the word "gifted" was thrown around when I was tested as a toddler. I don't really believe that because in the last 5 years or so, I started reading about what actual gifted kids are like, and interacting with them (rather by accident) online. I got into personality types and convinced everyone including myself that I was an extremely intelligent, rational, logical person, when in reality I'm very feeling-driven, and not so technical. Most importantly, I have almost nothing in common with actual gifted kids. I sure as hell didn't act like one. Finding my real type (personality-wise) was a blow seeing how far from ideal I really am. These things together...didn't bode well. Particularly considering it all started because I was failing out of college and was looking for something to convince me this wasn't permanent.

Whew.

But my fixation on intelligence goes back to early childhood. I started linking smarter with better early on, though I was never anything but a pseudo-intellectual, showing off random knowledge in the hopes of receiving praise. I'm lazy though, and didn't maintain my "advancement" much, so I started feeling stupid before middle school. But "smart" was my identity, and now that I don't have that, I don't know what I'm supposed to do with myself.

I'm naturally drawn to anything about intelligence - even the words smart, intelligent, intellectual, mental, genius - naturally draw my eye. I was recently reading some stuff about improving social skills and there were articles about the social challenges highly intelligent people might face. Of course I clicked on it, and of course, I found a list of things I've never done, would never think of doing, and would probably be on the receiving end anyway. This is a pattern. PC's main site had some pieces about being an intelligent misfit, and of course I couldn't relate but want to.

That's another thing (last paragraph, I promise). If I were highly intelligent, it would make sense why I've never felt like I fit in, why I'm often so disconnected from others. But if I'm just average, if I'm just like everyone else, then there's no explanation for my weirdness (or it feels like it). But I've never been asocial for smart reasons. It's never been "Ugh, why can't we talk about philosophy or politics or something of substance!" so much as "Could you please shut up, I'm running a story in my head/thinking about something really important to me?" I don't want to have deep conversations, I want to be left alone. No one ever seems to account for that.

But yes, it feels pathological, this obsession. It's ruining me.

And I'm really, really sorry for typing so much, holy frick.

So you were given an IQ test to see if you qualified for the Gifted Program as a toddler? I'm assuming that was when you were 5 or 6 and entering Kindergarten?

I just came here by chance, I see that your still struggling with the same issue of IQ.

What excatly would you be doing differently if you had a higher IQ than what you are already doing now? What big mystery is it that you want to figure out.

Like when I see and read your posts I think they are the most well put together things that I think you could write an awesome book. And that isn't just to be nice, that's to be honest.

The impression you have me under is that your carrying on about something you probably do even realize you already have.

Forgive me if any of this sounded callous.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

Your life is not hopeless. Martin Seligman did an experiment about optimist and pessimist in dealing with depression. He found that pessimist saw their problems as permanent while optimist saw things as temporary.

It's not about IQ. In fact, Daniel Goleman who wrote the book emotional intelligence found that EQ is more important than IQ. Google it.

You are on your way to recovery. The first step is awareness. You can't solve a problem if you are not aware of it. Once you are aware of it, the next step is to accept it. If you can do those two things, recovery is almost inevitable.

Don't stop questioning things. Smart people like to prove themselves right all the time. If you are really smart, question yourself and try to prove yourself wrong.

Never stop learning. Our stress our depression comes from the failure to adapt to distress (emotional stress). When you stay comfortable, you actually do more harm than good. You kill your neuroplasiticty in your brain and fill your body with cortisol.

Instead, don't try to get happiness but see your depression as vitality which means gives you strength.

My reply was all over the place. Just wanted to jog your brain. Hope this helps

I'm a lot more clear-headed today so let's see.

Actually, no. It was more of a development assessment when I was about two. There were a lot of complications when I was born so I was being evaluated to see that I was developing properly (I was perfectly fine). Apparently the only reason the testing couldn't go any further was because I couldn't read yet. It wasn't just IQ, there were motor tests and other things.

We didn't have any gifted programs where I lived, not in the schools at least. There's a university-sponsored program for gifted math students, but math was always me weakest subject.

You're not the first person to tell me I should write a book. The problem is I need something to write about.

I guess I keep thinking intelligence is the key to success. Real, substantial success, not just a big paycheck and nice material things, but actually producing something of value.

I keep thinking if I could be confident in a higher IQ or just higher, unquantified intelligence I could do, intellectually, whatever I want. I wouldn't have to compare myself all the time and feel like a failure. I'd be more ideal in my own evaluation and wouldn't have to feel inferior.

That's about it, I think.

I'd like to know more about this "depression as vitality" thing. Seems counterintuitive.

EDIT: I was scrolling through some stuff and I found some examples for how I use identification with certain traits to determine that I'm not intelligent. It largely consists of how conventional and non-analytical I am, naturally (I mentioned I've been learning it...but all the things gifted people figure out on their own I've had to be told, and in some cases I don't fully believe). Without guidance or the presence of people who do, I would never question anything, ever. If that doesn't prove how intelligent I'm not, I'm not sure what else does.

Thanks for clarifying. The reason I asked is because you talk about 'gifted' people with high IQs and that you are not one of them.

The word 'gifted' is used like: "She is such a gifted pianist, I was moved to tears!"
The term 'Gifted' is referring to kids that attended a Gifted Program where you need an IQ score of a certain number to get in or teacher recommendation.

There is no such thing as gifted people. So you must mean smart people. And these gifted/smart people you were talking to, where you then thought of yourself as an imposter-- who were they? How do you know they are smart? And what makes you think they all have high IQs? All smart people don't necessarily have high IQs.

What makes you think they are the same as each other and you are different?

So, it sounds like your thinking stems from an insecure lack of confidence. Everyone who comments on your posts tells you what an intelligent, good writer you are. Why do you doubt yourself?

I would strongly advise you NOT to take an IQ test. Don't give yourself any more ammunition. I consider myself a smart person, and if my test came back with low results, I would start to feel insecure. There's no reason to take one.

Are you in college? Do you have a good career? What have you tried to do?

I would still talk to a therapist about these intrusive thoughts and try to curb them.

Hold up. I have a very high IQ (which is meaningless but whatever), gifted throughout school, ranked very high in the nation on SATs, highly recruited by many universities, full scholarship to college of choice, whatever. So I am gifted and you just told me how I think and feel?

You ascribed something you think on an entire group of people. That is seriously dangerous and paranoid. So I am gifted, I am not in any way disgusted by anyone who is trying to learn on any level. You are completely wrong.

I could do a lot of jobs (high paying, prestigious, make breakthroughs), but I went back to get a 2nd graduate degree to teach elementary school children in public schools. I have no interest in teaching in a gifted program. The kids in my student teaching I spent the most time with were the middle of the road students and those with intellectual disabilities. I was noted for my patience and caring for these kids. You are completely wrong in your paranoia.

Before you judge who anyone thinks or feels, you should actually engage in conversation. Then figure out how you think and feel. You are not a mind reader.

Frankly, I am saying this because you made very offensive blanket statements, which is completely incorrect. I suggest you spend less time verbally whipping yourself for your perceived inadequacies. At the very least don't publicly tar people you don't even know with despicable thoughts and character traits.

I'm sure she didn't mean to offend. She's whipped herself up into some seriously skewed thinking. I think that negative voice in her head is telling her those things. Is there more to this? Abusive parental voices?

Ow...okay.

I was going here by the myriad frustrated posts I've seen about the slow, stupid masses, who can't keep up, only want to talk about shallow things, can't think critically or analytically, etc. Many smart people I see online are rather misanthropic and are never able to fit in due to their intelligence.

It's also kind of hard to grasp, for me, that someone obviously superior wouldn't be at least frustrated with "normals" and think less of someone who's just less than they are. Like, why wouldn't you? Why wouldn't you be sneering internally everytime someone less intelligent than you tries to be on your level (I know at least some do that...)? Why wouldn't you scoff at people's ignorance?

Maybe I am paranoid, I'm sorry.

I do feel like an imposter, I suspect I would feel like one even if I succeeded. I don't know why I doubt myself constantly, or just hate myself so much. It's almost addictive.

I've already taken an IQ test. Twice: first time was 106, second one a year later was 101. I did some research about what that's actually supposed to be like.

Now, about smart people online: I see lots of similarities, often end up in congregating groups. I mistook myself for one and ended up there too, and the discrepancies were obvious. Like I said in one of my posts, I am not naturally analytical. I never went through that "everyone is stupid, I'm the only one who knows how things really are" phase. I don't think or question naturally. I had to absorb the habit from others, starting in my late teens. I've never asked an intelligent question in my life; I've never questioned a teacher, or argued with one. I can only think of a couple of times when I've caught a teacher being wrong, and I said nothing, because it didn't matter. I've never been smarter than a teacher. I've never won anything academic. I've never been accused of plagiarism in my essays because they were too good for someone my age. I rarely think of people as stupid unless they do something really incorrigible. And so many other little stories from the highly intelligent that never applied to me.

Lastly: I dropped out of college a couple years ago, because I was failing all my classes. I lived at home for two years then ran away seven months ago. Those months have been largely periods of unemployment and temporary homelessness (I literally just got a new place today). When I'm not job hunting I'm online,and obsession drags me back to crap like this. I'd love to start just self-teaching stuff....but I expect to fail.

And I don't think parental pressure was ever part of it. I've never been able to discuss these feelings since they were always shot down as fishing for attention, even though less severe versions have bothered me since childhood. I've actually been accused of being arrogant, for some reason.

EDIT: I definitely need to get an online therapist. I feel like I'm doing something wrong by describing so much here.

It's good that you are writing about it. When you get the therapist, you should show the posts to them. I hope I've been able to help you some, and I am happy to try to help you get on track.

I'm glad you are safe somewhere right now.

I'd like to know more about this "depression as vitality" thing. Seems counterintuitive.

EDIT: I was scrolling through some stuff and I found some examples for how I use identification with certain traits to determine that I'm not intelligent. It largely consists of how conventional and non-analytical I am, naturally (I mentioned I've been learning it...but all the things gifted people figure out on their own I've had to be told, and in some cases I don't fully believe). Without guidance or the presence of people who do, I would never question anything, ever. If that doesn't prove how intelligent I'm not, I'm not sure what else does.[/QUOTE]

I've been spending a lot of time learning about my depression. The best book I've came across on depression is definitley Andrew Solomon's book called The Noonday Demon. I highly encourage you check out his TED talk on youtube. Youtube search Andrew Solomon Depression the secret we share.

"The opposite of depression isn't happiness, it's vitality"

I see my depression as my opportunity for self-transformation. It's a spiritual portal the opens the flood gates for me to experience God which is beyond my rational thought. My suffering was the initiation process to my higher self. In a weird way, my depression saved me.

I spend a lot of time in meditation to help with my depression. What I've learned is that in my meditation session, when I get distracted, my distractions are blessings in disguise for they help with my awareness. I have really bad ADHD but instead of seeing that there is something wrong with me, I see how I can use my hyperfocus to my advantage.

The ego is the part of you that craves intelligence. I like the acryonym of ego as Edge God Out. At the same time, why kill the ego and kill your own sanity? I think ego needs not to be killed, but to be transcended or integrated. It's the ego that puts our identity in identification. It's based off of external pillars.

I feel like you are very intelligent, but you don't realize it. Sounds like you are searching for a creative outlet. I always asked myself, If I am who I say I am, then why have the guilty conscience of trying to prove to myself?

Check out the book Animals in translation. Talks about how gifted people have creative intelligence that can't be seen with the human eye.

How do you define intelligence?