[ramonajones]

I've been struggling for depression and panic for just over three years now, and for the past year I've had this unbelievably intense depression and anxiety first thing in the morning. I know it's common for people's depression to be worst in the morning, but the intensity of mine in the morning makes me feel like it's some sort of "special" type of depression. I wake up feeling like I'm at the bottom of a well. It's horrific. It's SO incredibly dark and painful thoughts just flood me. I write myself notes the night before and keep them by the bed to remind myself to get up and out of bed and out of the house as soon as possible. I write myself notes saying that I love and accept myself. I write a list of things to do to keep myself busy and occupied.

The really strange thing is, almost every day it "shuts off" at some point in the afternoon. At some point, the obsessive thoughts and overwhelming sadness just stops and I'm "safe" until the next morning. If I'm lucky, it shuts off by 1 or 2 in the afternoon. If I'm unlucky, like I was today, it lasts until 8pm and I just have a few hours before I go to bed and it starts over again.

I have been desperately trying to trace what it is that shuts it off and I just don't know. It seems totally random.

Has anyone else experienced anything like this?

i can't help thinking it's something to do with an event that happens/ or has happened in the mornings in the past.

i know it's not the same, but i guet this with anxiety

an example might be that.. at some point in the morning i'll get a call from someone i don't get on with (say between 10 A.M and 1), 1 arives and you don't get the call- you feel instanttly better, and no you probably won't for the rest of the day

so could you use that concept for you.. is their something that's happened before 1 in the past, that makes you depressed or anxious?

just thoughts..

[ErBear24]

I have this same problem in the morning and usually when it starts getting dark out. Sometimes I get better during the day and sometimes not.

[ramonajones]

Originally Posted by shattered sanity

i can't help thinking it's something to do with an event that happens/ or has happened in the mornings in the past.

i know it's not the same, but i guet this with anxiety

an example might be that.. at some point in the morning i'll get a call from someone i don't get on with (say between 10 A.M and 1), 1 arives and you don't get the call- you feel instanttly better, and no you probably won't for the rest of the day

so could you use that concept for you.. is their something that's happened before 1 in the past, that makes you depressed or anxious?

just thoughts..

Nothing that I can think of that happened in the morning. The thing that brought me into therapy was an incident that happened around 9pm.

[basicgoodness]

Depression tends to be circadian. Worse in the morning and better in the evening. At least that's how it goes for me.

Originally Posted by basicgoodness

Depression tends to be circadian. Worse in the morning and better in the evening. At least that's how it goes for me.

i guess i'd agree, but it's kind of unusual.. you know, you'd think depression would be worse at night because of no distractions- everything quiet, everyone in bed, etc

but it's not

i bet it has a lot to do with... oh no, not another dam day. not again

Originally Posted by ramonajones

Nothing that I can think of that happened in the morning. The thing that brought me into therapy was an incident that happened around 9pm.

okay.. interesting

and using my example earlier, can i ask how 9 pm makes you feel now?

depressed, stable, etc

[DechanDawa]

Cortisol is highest in the morning -- highest at 8 am and can increase depression/anxiety. The things you have been doing sound brilliant such as writing yourself notes. I never paid much attention to the idea that "depression is worse in the morning" until I experienced it. I feel at my worse the first 5 or 6 hours of the day. I relate it to the fact I live alone. I was always a sort of a grouchy morning person but having others around could cheer me up. Living alone isn't just about morning grouchiness...it is the feeling I am living in a nightmare.

When my depression and anxiety increased I became more sensitive to light and noise. The darkness and quiet of nighttime calms me. Daylight, and extremes of temperatures all exacerbate my condition. I understand how you feel. Even if I get up and out I still experience this doom and gloom feeling until I am up and moving around for about six hours.

The odd part is I never remember I have this "condition" until I am in the middle of it. It is like "Groundhog Day" every morning. I wake up and it takes a few hours to realize I am again feeling like crap and if I wait it out I will feel more ordinary levels of depression and anxiety that I can manage.

But watch for changes. Things change. A year ago I was waking up daily with classic panic attacks...pounding heart, shaking etc. Now, they have completely vanished and I no longer experience panic attacks at any time of the day. I did work on some meditative techniques. But, really, the panic attacks just came and went of their own accord, mostly. Don't despair. Keep writing yourself notes. That is lovely! I love how you honor yourself. I need to do more of that as when I wake up I feel a great deal of self loathing and blame, and it is a heavy handed way for anyone to start their day.

[ramonajones]

Originally Posted by shattered sanity

okay.. interesting

and using my example earlier, can i ask how 9 pm makes you feel now?

depressed, stable, etc

I feel just fine at 9pm--like completely fine and stable. It's so exhausting to keep waking up this way. I remind myself every morning that it will get better later in the day but it's still brutal.

[ramonajones]

Originally Posted by shattered sanity

okay.. interesting

and using my example earlier, can i ask how 9 pm makes you feel now?

depressed, stable, etc

Originally Posted by DechanDawa

Cortisol is highest in the morning -- highest at 8 am and can increase depression/anxiety. The things you have been doing sound brilliant such as writing yourself notes. I never paid much attention to the idea that "depression is worse in the morning" until I experienced it. I feel at my worse the first 5 or 6 hours of the day. I relate it to the fact I live alone. I was always a sort of a grouchy morning person but having others around could cheer me up. Living alone isn't just about morning grouchiness...it is the feeling I am living in a nightmare.

When my depression and anxiety increased I became more sensitive to light and noise. The darkness and quiet of nighttime calms me. Daylight, and extremes of temperatures all exacerbate my condition. I understand how you feel. Even if I get up and out I still experience this doom and gloom feeling until I am up and moving around for about six hours.

The odd part is I never remember I have this "condition" until I am in the middle of it. It is like "Groundhog Day" every morning. I wake up and it takes a few hours to realize I am again feeling like crap and if I wait it out I will feel more ordinary levels of depression and anxiety that I can manage.

But watch for changes. Things change. A year ago I was waking up daily with classic panic attacks...pounding heart, shaking etc. Now, they have completely vanished and I no longer experience panic attacks at any time of the day. I did work on some meditative techniques. But, really, the panic attacks just came and went of their own accord, mostly. Don't despair. Keep writing yourself notes. That is lovely! I love how you honor yourself. I need to do more of that as when I wake up I feel a great deal of self loathing and blame, and it is a heavy handed way for anyone to start their day.

It is EXACTLY like "Groundhog Day". Both my therapist and a friend of mine have made the same comparison. That's exactly what it's like! I've been struggling with depression for about three years, but this severe morning depression that shuts off later in the day has been happening for just over a year. It's so incredibly rough. And STRANGE! The thing is too, there are times when I've woken up really early--like 4:30 in the morning and I feel absolutely fine--sometimes actually really good--but when I wake up again at 8 or so, I'm back in the hole. It's so bizarre and frustrating and scary.

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by ramonajones

It is EXACTLY like "Groundhog Day". Both my therapist and a friend of mine have made the same comparison. That's exactly what it's like! I've been struggling with depression for about three years, but this severe morning depression that shuts off later in the day has been happening for just over a year. It's so incredibly rough. And STRANGE! The thing is too, there are times when I've woken up really early--like 4:30 in the morning and I feel absolutely fine--sometimes actually really good--but when I wake up again at 8 or so, I'm back in the hole. It's so bizarre and frustrating and scary.

Okay. I have had exactly the same experience as you. If I wake up at 4:00 or 4:30 a.m. I definitely feel better than when I wake up at 8:00 a.m. Because we both (and others) have had this experience it seems perhaps it is related to cortisol, which is stronger more towards 8:00 a.m. Psychologically, I like the feeling that when I wake up at 4:00 a.m. I can stay up and have a few quiet hours before the day starts. I will have coffee, read, write in my journal, and take a hot bath. I have tried to establish a routine of getting up at 4 a.m. but then I have to try to get to sleep by 8 p.m., which is not always feasible. I absolutely and totally agree with you that the whole thing is bizarre, frustrating, and scary. I, too, am working myself out of a long depression. Presently I am moving so it is shaking things up, for the better, I hope. I have so much to think about with endless lists. It's particularly difficult moving all by myself, and doing it depressed and anxious. "Doing life" depressed and anxious is something only those who experience it for themselves can relate to. It is so very difficult.

From what I have read MOST people eventually recover from depression regardless of the level of treatment. Some take medication, others opt for medication and therapy, and still others tough it out and use self-help measures. When you are inside depression it feels like a solid situation that will never change. But remember, even in Groundhog Day eventually the situation changed and improved!

I also read that if you drink an energy drink that contains taurine in the morning that the taurine somehow dampens the effects of cortisol (which is what causes me to have agitated depression sometimes in the morning) -- I tried it but I didn't really see much difference and I don't like the way energy drinks with taurine taste - and they are expensive.

Keep experimenting! Keep up! This too shall pass!

[ramonajones]

Originally Posted by DechanDawa

Okay. I have had exactly the same experience as you. If I wake up at 4:00 or 4:30 a.m. I definitely feel better than when I wake up at 8:00 a.m. Because we both (and others) have had this experience it seems perhaps it is related to cortisol, which is stronger more towards 8:00 a.m. Psychologically, I like the feeling that when I wake up at 4:00 a.m. I can stay up and have a few quiet hours before the day starts. I will have coffee, read, write in my journal, and take a hot bath. I have tried to establish a routine of getting up at 4 a.m. but then I have to try to get to sleep by 8 p.m., which is not always feasible. I absolutely and totally agree with you that the whole thing is bizarre, frustrating, and scary. I, too, am working myself out of a long depression. Presently I am moving so it is shaking things up, for the better, I hope. I have so much to think about with endless lists. It's particularly difficult moving all by myself, and doing it depressed and anxious. "Doing life" depressed and anxious is something only those who experience it for themselves can relate to. It is so very difficult.

From what I have read MOST people eventually recover from depression regardless of the level of treatment. Some take medication, others opt for medication and therapy, and still others tough it out and use self-help measures. When you are inside depression it feels like a solid situation that will never change. But remember, even in Groundhog Day eventually the situation changed and improved!

I also read that if you drink an energy drink that contains taurine in the morning that the taurine somehow dampens the effects of cortisol (which is what causes me to have agitated depression sometimes in the morning) -- I tried it but I didn't really see much difference and I don't like the way energy drinks with taurine taste - and they are expensive.

Keep experimenting! Keep up! This too shall pass!

OK, I am TRULY sorry you're suffering with this but honestly SO relieved to hear someone else is experiencing it too. I have spent a small fortune on therapy, psychiatry, a dozen different homeopathic treatments and more, so if a Taurine drink really helps the situation, I'm willing to shell out the money for it! I'm going to try it this weekend!

So, today, I woke up around 8:15--the panic/sadness wasn't as bad as it is some days but it was definitely there. All morning. I think it's letting up now. I made myself a very extensive schedule for the day making sure every minute was occupied so I just had something to do the whole time and just kept plowing through my morning. Still had really difficult obsessive thoughts, but I was exercising during them so I just ran even harder. Ugh. This is REALLY hard.

The one good thing is I feel like if I ever get through this I will be the strongest person I know.

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by ramonajones

OK, I am TRULY sorry you're suffering with this but honestly SO relieved to hear someone else is experiencing it too. I have spent a small fortune on therapy, psychiatry, a dozen different homeopathic treatments and more, so if a Taurine drink really helps the situation, I'm willing to shell out the money for it! I'm going to try it this weekend!

So, today, I woke up around 8:15--the panic/sadness wasn't as bad as it is some days but it was definitely there. All morning. I think it's letting up now. I made myself a very extensive schedule for the day making sure every minute was occupied so I just had something to do the whole time and just kept plowing through my morning. Still had really difficult obsessive thoughts, but I was exercising during them so I just ran even harder. Ugh. This is REALLY hard.

The one good thing is I feel like if I ever get through this I will be the strongest person I know.

Yes. What a positive attitude! I truly do believe that getting through this would make you the strongest person you know! Unless people have experienced depression and/or agitated depression they absolutely cannot understand how difficult it is. I also have been doing the "keep busy" thing and yes, it does help a little. I am also making written contracts with myself to stay away from depressive thoughts for 24 hour periods. This is weird, I know, but I promise myself (in writing) that I will do everything in my power to behave like my "old" self, who was much hardier and more resilient than my present self.

I had to take my old truck to my mechanic today and am looking at possibly $600 in repairs! Yikes! (I was procrastinating going to the mechanic but I am moving in two weeks...so could no longer procrastinate.) I knew it was going to be harrowing (and expensive) to see my mechanic so I wrote up my contract to remain emotionally regulated no matter what. Sometimes I feel like I am trying to punch my way out of a dark little box. I am going to do it!!!

So, now I am using 24 hour written contracts with myself to do everything in my power to stay positive.

Let me know if you try the energy drinks with taurine. Make sure you look on the can because not all energy drinks have taurine. I might give it another try.

Take care.

[Fuzzybear]

[ramonajones]

Originally Posted by DechanDawa

Yes. What a positive attitude! I truly do believe that getting through this would make you the strongest person you know! Unless people have experienced depression and/or agitated depression they absolutely cannot understand how difficult it is. I also have been doing the "keep busy" thing and yes, it does help a little. I am also making written contracts with myself to stay away from depressive thoughts for 24 hour periods. This is weird, I know, but I promise myself (in writing) that I will do everything in my power to behave like my "old" self, who was much hardier and more resilient than my present self.

I had to take my old truck to my mechanic today and am looking at possibly $600 in repairs! Yikes! (I was procrastinating going to the mechanic but I am moving in two weeks...so could no longer procrastinate.) I knew it was going to be harrowing (and expensive) to see my mechanic so I wrote up my contract to remain emotionally regulated no matter what. Sometimes I feel like I am trying to punch my way out of a dark little box. I am going to do it!!!

So, now I am using 24 hour written contracts with myself to do everything in my power to stay positive.

Let me know if you try the energy drinks with taurine. Make sure you look on the can because not all energy drinks have taurine. I might give it another try.

Take care.

Wow! The 24 hour contract thing sounds super positive but really really difficult. I don't know if I could successfully do that! I have trouble staying away from the negative thoughts for even a few minutes. My depression came back three years ago after a long remission and was kicked off by a professional career rejection. It's kind of hard to explain but I got this short term gig, that I KNEW would likely not turn into a long term gig, but when it ended after six months and I didn't get to do it anymore I was so devastated that I went into a deep hole. Now, every morning I wake up thinking about how I'll never get to work on anything as fun and rewarding ever again. I wake up with pictures in my head of the people who rejected me--some of whom still get to work on the project--I just have this running slideshow in my head about all of the stuff that I miss and all of the things I'm missing now by not getting to participate. I'm so habituated to thinking about this first thing in the morning now I'm afraid it will never go away. I just wake up with the slideshow running in my head and I think: "That was the best time of my life, and it's OVER. Nothing will ever be that good again." And I have this squeezing in my heart and chest and I spend the next 6-12 hours trying to get out of the hole.

This morning I went to a crazy intense yoga class--much harder than the ones I normally go to and finally by the end of the class some of my stress was gone, but I have to work SO HARD to reduce it. I can't get to yoga every morning because I work and have a kid, so it's not a long term solution that I can go to every day.

Going to try taurine tomorrow morning. Thanks so much for writing back about this. So sorry about your truck!!!

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by ramonajones

Wow! The 24 hour contract thing sounds super positive but really really difficult. I don't know if I could successfully do that! I have trouble staying away from the negative thoughts for even a few minutes. My depression came back three years ago after a long remission and was kicked off by a professional career rejection. It's kind of hard to explain but I got this short term gig, that I KNEW would likely not turn into a long term gig, but when it ended after six months and I didn't get to do it anymore I was so devastated that I went into a deep hole. Now, every morning I wake up thinking about how I'll never get to work on anything as fun and rewarding ever again. I wake up with pictures in my head of the people who rejected me--some of whom still get to work on the project--I just have this running slideshow in my head about all of the stuff that I miss and all of the things I'm missing now by not getting to participate. I'm so habituated to thinking about this first thing in the morning now I'm afraid it will never go away. I just wake up with the slideshow running in my head and I think: "That was the best time of my life, and it's OVER. Nothing will ever be that good again." And I have this squeezing in my heart and chest and I spend the next 6-12 hours trying to get out of the hole.

This morning I went to a crazy intense yoga class--much harder than the ones I normally go to and finally by the end of the class some of my stress was gone, but I have to work SO HARD to reduce it. I can't get to yoga every morning because I work and have a kid, so it's not a long term solution that I can go to every day.

Going to try taurine tomorrow morning. Thanks so much for writing back about this. So sorry about your truck!!!

I can absolutely relate as to why you got depressed. I have had similar things happen. I have experienced a lot of losses...but then, so does everyone. I just don't bounce back.

Yes, we have to be proactive. I definitely have things I ruminate over again and again. So that is where we feel the Groundhog Day thing.

I have a very hard time accepting the ending of things.

Well, that is why I am doing the daily contract. Yes, it is hard. But I need an extreme solution to an extreme problem.

Good on you re: the yoga. I think I will do a few early swims on Monday and Tuesday. You and I have a lot of anxiety to throw off.

Best of Luck.

[handheart]

Well search for a good psicholog or therapist that can move your from dark places to light i think you understand me what i mean .Depresion its results of negative ,confusion sadness etc

[DechanDawa]

If only the solution was this simple.

[unaluna]

How old are you? Can't you find another contract? Is your current job in another field?

[ramonajones]

Originally Posted by unaluna

How old are you? Can't you find another contract? Is your current job in another field?

I have a job, it's just a boring office job. What I had was an awesome Hollywood creative thing. I got to work on a big TV show and then I got cut from it. Maybe some day I'll get to work on another one, but maybe never again. That's how it goes in the industry. I'm 38.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by ramonajones

I have a job, it's just a boring office job. What I had was an awesome Hollywood creative thing. I got to work on a big TV show and then I got cut from it. Maybe some day I'll get to work on another one, but maybe never again. That's how it goes in the industry. I'm 38.

Do you know / understand why you were let go? Like, you seem reticent to take the lead in discussing your transference with your t. You want him to lead. Was that a problem at work? Because you seem passive in describing your ability to land another good job. Or is it truly just a matter of waiting while your agent works on it?

[ramonajones]

Originally Posted by unaluna

Do you know / understand why you were let go? Like, you seem reticent to take the lead in discussing your transference with your t. You want him to lead. Was that a problem at work? Because you seem passive in describing your ability to land another good job. Or is it truly just a matter of waiting while your agent works on it?

I've been trying for three years to land another creative job. It's just that nothing has worked out. I got let go because I was only hired for six months. I'd hoped that I'd be so fantastic and impressive they would miraculously hire me full time but they didn't. You have to come across as very confident to land jobs in Hollywood, which may be one of the reasons I haven't gotten another one. I was so crushed by losing the first gig that I never really recovered.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by ramonajones

I've been trying for three years to land another creative job. It's just that nothing has worked out. I got let go because I was only hired for six months. I'd hoped that I'd be so fantastic and impressive they would miraculously hire me full time but they didn't. You have to come across as very confident to land jobs in Hollywood, which may be one of the reasons I haven't gotten another one. I was so crushed by losing the first gig that I never really recovered.

I can relate. I think your T1 sort of mimics that dynamic - when he called you back in, he selected you. I don't think it really matters if you work with T1 or T2, but I DO think the passivity is the issue. Like the Cinderella complex. From your posts so far, you DO come across as very confident, so it's like, what went wrong??! What underlies that? Parents who didn't believe in you? Still like that? Some secret fear that these incidents supposedly prove, that you try to hot yoga run away from.

[ramonajones]

Originally Posted by unaluna

I can relate. I think your T1 sort of mimics that dynamic - when he called you back in, he selected you. I don't think it really matters if you work with T1 or T2, but I DO think the passivity is the issue. Like the Cinderella complex. From your posts so far, you DO come across as very confident, so it's like, what went wrong??! What underlies that? Parents who didn't believe in you? Still like that? Some secret fear that these incidents supposedly prove, that you try to hot yoga run away from.

I just got crushed by the loss of this creative opportunity and haven't been able to get back up again. I really just need to start my own projects so I can have a creative outlet, even if it's not for some big TV show, but I just spin around and around--I decide what I want to do, then come up with a million reasons why it won't work, or I decide I want to write a blog, then I say--no wait, maybe I should keep trying to get stuff published on legit websites instead of wasting it on a blog that I won't get any readers on--I do this with all my creative projects and then I just get so overwhelmed and confused that I just can't decide what to do next, so I do nothing.

[DayAtATime1]

I mentioned the same Groundhog Day analogy to my therapist a few months ago. I wish I knew how to make my day have a better outcome like in the movie...