[lynn P.]

As many of you know I have 2 daughters 8 and 12. The 12 yr old was talking about going to the movies for several days and it kept changing - as to who was going. I was against her going if boys were going to be there - too much like a 'date' situation. It's not that I don't trust her or feel confident about her taking care of herself - we just don't feel comfortable with her being 12 and boys being involved. She was supposed to be going at 4 today and when we finally found out who was going, it was revealed 2 boys were also going. So I canceled the whole thing and she became very upset. I feel so aggravated at this moment, yet I feel I did the right thing. I don't think I'm being too strict, but why do I feel so awful. I remember making some bad judgments when I was 14 but at the time I thought they were good ones. I need help with these feelings.

[NuckingFutz]

Please do not feel bad for being a good parent. Bet those boys were going to go the whole time. I did this when I was 12 and there was no adult. The boys thought it would be one big make out fest. It did not turn out well because teen boys think "stop" means "don't stop". Maybe explain to her your decision wasn'twmeant as punishment but as protection because you care. Good luck!

[notz]

I can just imagine how upset the *both* of you are!

She wasn't exactly truthful and that has to hurt. Does it feel personal or is it something any 12 year old would do to test her boundaries?

Personally, I think once in puberty the mindset of all young men is to procreate. They don't mean to be disruptive, they're just in the throes of what mother nature had in mind. But we know they are actually just half grown pains in the rears!!

In our modern society, it's scarier that ever to be a parent. But I agree with NF, you are a good parent, Lynn. You're a good person.

I'm sure you and daughter #1 will work this out. Maybe next time, you can just go to the movies with her and see how that strike's her fancy!

[lynn P.]

Thank you Nucking Futz - that makes me feel better that I made the right decision. I did explain that to her and she tried to say we're just friends and it doesn't mean we're going out. Since she knows Karate I know she can take care of herself. Her Dad would flip if someone told him they saw her at the movies with a boy - it would be irrelevant if they were just buddies. She wanted me to lie to her father that she was just going with a girl. I told her yes you can have guy friends at school but no socializing outside of school. It's just too scary the way you hear about young adolescents having sex at this age. This age scares the hell out of me.

I snuck around when I was 14 with one boy and it never went further than kissing but I regret it now. I just don't think kids this age can make the proper judgments about things like this. This is all kids this age talk about - who's going out with who. So what are the kids going to say if this boy goes to school on Monday and says "I went to the movies with my daughter"?? Thanks again NF I appreciate your help.

[lynn P.]

Thank you ((Notz)) for your kind words of wisdom. Since the beginning of the week she kept mentioning some of her friends were planning on going to the movies - it kept changing and I asked if boys were coming. She said "what if they invite the boys, then it's not my fault". I said "no I don't approve of that". She tried to say other girls her age do that so why can't she - of course that's not logical that we have to do what others kids are doing. She extremely intelligent and has a strong personality. I've never tried to squash that strength. Then she pulled the "don't you trust me Mom"?? She pulled every trick in the book and eventually said I got her hopes up and we're too strict on her and this will make her want to move out when she's old enough - that hurt. She can debate with the best of them and I think one day she'll make a great lawyer lol.

I just remember when I was 14 and I was a good kid mind you, but I did like one boy, so I know the strong feelings that come up. Luckily for me I stayed away from buys until I was 18 after that. I regret the way I thought back then. At this time my daughter thinks she knows everything. All I know is, if I surrender to her socializing at this age with boys, I feel it's inevitable something physical will happen. It scares me when I hear about girls having sex at a young age.

I think next time she wants to go to the movies, I'll speak with the girls parent first and make sure everything's legitimate. I know the teenage years are tough but I didn't think the challenges would start this early. It was so much easier when she was younger. She started complaining she has no freedom meanwhile she got to go to leadership camp at the beginning of the school year. I just started having difficulty this year. I have talked with her about sex and the risks. Sigh!!!

[Rhapsody]

Originally Posted by lynn P.

I don't think I'm being too strict, but why do I feel so awful.

As parents we often feel bad when we do the right thing and our kids still end up being angry at us... no one likes for their child to dislike them - if only for a day.



Stand Strong and REMEMBER - Parenting Isn't for Cowards

[lynn P.]

Thanks Rhapsody. Yesterday was a very sressful day - I even started having chest pains. Lately it seems likes when I go through a very stressful event - it lingers for a day or so after. So today I feel in a horrible mood. My daughter was talking to one of the girls who went and she told her, the 2 girls went and 3 boys came - obviously the 3rd boy was there for my daughter. She said she was glad she didn't go but I don't know it she really means it.

I'm wondering is this a normal thing - my daughter claims all the parents consented to this but I wonder if that's true. She keeps stressing this is a normal thing and part of me feels like an old fashioned odd ball. But I've always marched to the beat of my own drum and don't follow others, unless I think it's the right thing to do.

I don't even know what's the appropriate dating age and part of me is worried about her getting burned one day. I know some of this comes from my own awful marriage experience. I would like to hear from other parents - what's the right age for dating these days?

[Rhapsody]

The other parents might of agreed to the situations not knowing that it was a three to three ratio... I personally allowed my boys to go on large group events when they were around 13 to 14 years old... but they were not allowed to date until they were 16 years old - it worked for me/us.

[sanityseeker]

I am sorry you are feeling badly today after your disagreement with your daughter. I hope you start to feel better soon. The post stressor blues can be rough but they will pass. Show yourself some special kindness today. Maybe a mother daughter outing would help lift your spirits and give you and your daughter a chance to talk.

I guess I will add my 2 cents to your dilema. First I think you were wise to keep your daughter home from the movie date. Clearly it was a date and either your daughter was being dishonest or naive. If it was as innocent as she suggested then there would be no reason to lie or dance around the question. That alone in my opinion is reason enough to cancel her plans. It is also not okay to ask you to lie to your husband. Parents must have a united front when it comes to raising kids. There may be disagreements about what is best and sometimes one will have to give way to another... in my case I have the final say because I am the primary care giver but there must be honesty.

On the question of dating age I may be old school but 15 or 16 works for me. They are in their senior years at school and are become more independant so dating fits. I think though that if a younger child were to already show maturity in say holding down a job, maintaining grades at school and being responsible for their chores in the home that they might be ready for the responsibilities of dating. I think as a parent you will know when you think your child is ready and age won't be the only factor involved in your decision. It will depend on the boy too. I would want to meet him first no matter the age. Call me old fashioned but I don't think it is unreasonable.

I wonder why your daughter is glad now that she didn't go on the group date. Perhaps she innocently thought it was just friends going to the movie and learned after the fact that there was more to it than that.

If the opportunity were to present itself again the only way I would support it is if I were to either go along (which if they were just friends would present no issue for anyone) or I would at least take my son or daughter to the theatre to met up with the other boys and girls whether I knew them already or not. Knowing me if I were to sense any tension I would remind them all that there was to be no hanky panky. I would tell them I had spies in the theatre. If they laughed I would know they were safe, if they rolled their eyes or seemed nervous I would know they were on shaky ground.

I don't think it is a question of trust but wisdom. As adults we know what can happen. It is not about trust it is about safety. Kids will always play the 'trust me' card. The thing is though that they are often asking us to not only trust them but to trust someone else that we don't know much of anything about. She may know karate but you don't want her to find herself in a position of needing to use it to be safe. You want her to be safe going into a situation. That means making sure the situation is in fact safe.

If such an occassion should present itself again I would not only speak to the other girls' parents but the boys parents as well. If it is just a group of kids going to the movies than fine, have fun. If it is a boy girl hook up then 12 is way too young. End of discussion. Wait at least a couple of years and even then you better have proven yourself to be ready for the implications. And one of those implications is getting the approval of your parents.

Don't worry about the moving out threats. I can name a half a dozen girls who used that line on their moms who are still at home in their 20's. A couple left after high school only to discover it is expensive on their own.

One day at a time Lynn. You have a wonderful relationship with your daughter and if she hasn't said so already I would bet you that she appreciates your concern for her.

[sanityseeker]

At the risk of babbling too much here I wanted to speak to the underlying issue you are dealing with. That of your own experiences at 14. No doubt they are foreshadowing your thinking about your daughter as she approached that age and all the sexual tensions that come through those tender teenage years of growing into a woman. It sounds like you carry forward some pain that you wish to spare your daughter. It likely triggers some memories that take you back to the pain.

This weekends challenge may not be just about deciding appropriate dating age but it may also be about your own healing of past hurts. Be kind to yourself and trust yourself to know your love for your daughter will guide you the right way.

[lynn P.]

Thank you Sanity Seeker for the wise advice I agree with everything you and the other members have said. I feel I made the right decision and like you and the others have said - sometimes we have to make decisions that make our kids unhappy. I also think I feel blindsided at bit - last year she was in grade 6 and all of a sudden in grade 7 - all the kids talk about who's BF and GF.

I think you're right, I want to shield her from bad choices. I feel the relationships that form between young people are so fickle and when breakups happen, this can affect their self esteem. I remember in grade 7 I started to lose interest in school. I want so much for my daughter and I want her to be smarter than I was. Although my mom was a good parent, she didn't educate me about sex or boys. When I finally met my husband(boyfriend at the time) when I was 18 I was way too naive and uneducated about everything. I recognize that I'm struggling with this age my daughters at. I think it's because this is when children start to pull away a little and become more independent. I also worry because it seems societies morals are degrading and it scares me. Thank you to everyone who's responded

[sanityseeker]

I know what you mean Lynn. It is a difficult time to be growing up because there is so much pressure to grow up fast. That makes it a difficult time to be a parent because its a whole different ball game and we as parents have to just go with our gut because the rules keep changing. At the end of the day you have to trust that you have provided a good foundation of values and that your daughter knows that she is loved. She will hit bumps in the road. We can't protect them from life happening. There will be difficult times for our kids to find their way through and around. It will be the foundation and love that will carry them through it.

The teen years have been really difficult for me with my son because when I was 12 my mother was in an accident that left her in a wheelchair. It devistated our family. By the time I was 15 I was basically raising myself because my dad and my syblings had moved out and my mother was in the hospital more than she was home. Living on my own if I wasn't taking care of my mom demanded that I grew up fast so that sometimes I find myself unable to relate to my son's teenage life. I also have no history of being parented during that time in my life so I have no references. Just my gut. I think if I had a girl it would be much different because I made some bad choices in my desperation to be loved and to be part of a family somewhere. I would be much more worried about the things that could happen to a girl than I am about my boy. I do teach him responsibility when it comes to sex and girls but it isn't the same I suspect.

So whether it is new social pressures or old issues from our past confusing us, at the end of the day we just go with our gut because our love will steer us right. You want her to be strong and independant and with your help she will be all of that and more. You love her enough to not let her walk into situation that she shouldn't be in (group dates) and you love her enough to let her take responsibilities (the vacinne). You are doing the best for your daughter. Give yourself a pat on the back and don't worry so much. You will survive the ride. It goes fast. lol.

[lynn P.]

Yes I agree SS. I had a good talk with my husband this morning. He comes from a strict family upbringing and was raised Muslim. I told him that we have to be careful not to be so strict like his parents did to him - where she'll end up rebelling like he did. My husband moved on his own when he was 17 to be with me(18). I was still living at home. Unfortunately my mom didn't teach me anything about sex or protecting myself. I was raised Catholic so it was just assumed that you don't date. I think the only reason I remained a virgin till 18, was because I was extremely shy. I wish my mom would have warned me to protect myself, so I could have avoided getting HPV, as I mentioned in the Gardasil thread. I was clueless about STD's when I was a teenager.

So I spoke with him this morning, that we have to figure out a 'happy medium'. If we end up too strict(short leash) she'll guaranteed rebell and resent us - probably move away when she's 16. If we're too leniant she'll have too much freedom. I think I'm going to go to the book store and find a book on raising girls in todays society. I know teaching just abstinance doesn't work.

After the other day my husband was tempted to never let her go to the movies even with a girl from school, but I told him this will backfire and she'll resent us eventually. I told him, she at least deserves credit for being honest in the end. He surprisingly agreed but I could see the worry on his face. His natural reaction is to keep her on a short leash but when I told him "this is what your parents did and did it work for you"? - he agreed it didn't work. So I'm looking for a happy medium - not sure what it is yet lol. I've already educated her about sex, STD's, pregnancy and what boys expect these days and her response so far is "ewwwwwww" lol. My husbands biggest fear is someone could one day put a drug in her drink.

I feel a little better. I always worried that my husband and I would lock horns when it came to my daughters teenage years. I was really worried he would be too strict. For now he seems to agree we need to find a happy medium and make sure we instill good morals but at the same time educate them. Now I just need to find a good book on the subject. I think what scared me was not having a plan since she's my oldest. Plus like you said SS I didn't do the normal teenage things(too shy) and todays society is diffferent - so I'm not quite sure what's a 'happy medium' yet lol. At least I know what direction I'm headed. I can already feel her resentment and that's what was so upsetting to me.

[sanityseeker]

It is good to hear that you and your husband are communicating. I think that is really important even if it takes time to come to agreement. I am glad to hear you are feeling better. Hopefully your daughter will come around to know it is love not just a firm hand for the sake of controlling her. Meanwhile don't let it get to you. Tomorrow it will be something else. lol. Just when you have one thing figured out bamb they hit you with something new. Crazy making!! Take care.

Just my .02!

I was thinking (havent read the whole thread so perhaps this was mentioned) that perhaps you could offer some sort of alternative. I was thinking maybe she could have a group of friends including boys over, to YOUR house while YOU are there with them, to watch a movie. Or maybe you could join them at the movie, to provide a chaperone and a safe environment.

I do think your totally correct in the decision you made. I think that 12 is just TOO young to be alone with boys, and I am willing to bet that in this case she just might have been a bit naive and is now realizing that what you did was good.

Im just thinking that if this becomes a bone of contention, and you are comfortable, maybe you could offer one of these alternatives or look to this as something to be considered in a year or two when it becomes more of an intense issue.

Dont worry about her hating you. All kids do this - they have hormonal issues and being a teen or tween is DIFFICULT emotionally. You just happen to be the brunt of her frustration at being too young and also too old. Too young to date, to old to not talk to boys at all or just hang out.

[lynn P.]

Thanks ((Rainbowzz)) those are good ideas and alternatives to think about. Thanks for the reassurance.

Your Welcome, Lynn.

I do think while shes too young to date children also do need to socialize with members of the opposite sex - although it needs to be structured at all times (such as school is).

[salukigirl]

What about going with her? My dad was uncomfortable with me going to concerts when I was about 13 or 14 so once my friend's dad went with us, my step-mom went to another....if they weren't 100% they would just go with me. I think though, that if she hasn't done anything to deserve the holding back, then she probably feels short-changed. I get that feeling bc I am uber-responsible (bc my siblings weren't) but my parents never gave me that feeling that they trusted me. I know now it's because of their own experiences but I deserved more credit than my brother who wrecked a car before he even got his license....

I think that you should actually be proud of her for being truthful with you. The thing I'm worried about is her lying about it because she knows you wont trust her. She is getting to that age when she has to start learning from her own mistakes. It sucks but sometimes you have to let them mess up and just be there for them when they do.

[lynn P.]

Yes I agree - the week prior to this happening plans were up in the air with her friends - as to who was going. She hinted that they might bring their 'boyfriends' - I have a hard time with 12 yr olds saying they have BF's. But I did give her credit for being truthful and even she didn't know that those girls had invited a 3rd boy. My daughter thought 2 of her GF's were going with their 2 BF's - but they invited the 3rd boy.

About a month ago I let her go to her 1st school dance, so I'm letting lose a little and she gets to go to girls houses and she has a best friend next door. She also got to go to a 2 day leadership camp through the school and this was her 1st sleepover experience and there were boys and girls there. Like I said I don't want to be the ultra strict parent nor do I want to give too much freedom. I hope to instill good morals and be somewhere in the middle. Thanks to everyone who responded so far.