To be honest I never put much thought into who I trust and who I don't. I think I have always looked at others in a sense that they cannot do much to me as I have been wired to not accept failure. In the case that something does seem to not work on my favor than my poison comes to life to make sure I walk away feeling triumphant. Now writing this I see how silly that seems. Understand that prior to working on self this was normal. The way it was and all I understood. To your question I still don't think much in the sense of trust probably due to the feelings of (leaving blank on purpose). You get my point!! What I have realized is that in a social sense I am weird. I don't go out much anymore. When I was younger I was nuts to go out with. Always loud and getting into trouble that was lots of fun at the time. Since getting older things have changed. I am no longer the loudest, I have probably become a very boring person to hang out with lol. I think in my aging I have come to not caring much about entertaining and feel that people can't get me. So when I do go out people talk to me about all the nonsense people normally do and I just can no longer put the face on that people expect. Even with the things I speak of as far as dark, sadness and pain I still enjoy my own thoughts too. They understand me better than anyone ha ha. So to sum it all up, trust is needed when wanting more that what I want from others. I guess I just don't care enough in making relationships with others anymore to even need to think about trust. Not sure if this makes sense but it is what it is!!

[here today]

This actually makes a lot of sense. Not the way I usually operate – kind of the opposite, still makes sense!

Yes, trust is needed if you’re needing others for something. If you’ve decided, or been wired, to go it alone when the early family environment can’t give you something more, then yeah. . .

I’ve written before about how “I” or my child nervous system seemed to turn anger/hatred back toward myself that I (must have) felt toward my environment, enabling me to turn a loving or at least accepting face toward them, which kept them available. But it was “fake” even if as a child I didn’t know that. Or in a way wasn’t fake because I was just doing what came naturally to keep myself safe, which meant keeping my family from rejecting/ignoring me, if I could. But that’s not the same as having real relationships.

Glad that you have a good relationship with your wife. My late husband was a great guy and we got along really well together. He was a real blessing in my life. I could be myself with him, too, as I have never been able to do with other people, except some recently.

[Apanthropos]

Originally Posted by Atypical_Disaster

Darkness doesn't have to mean pain. Though I will say, pain can transform a person for good or ill, it all depends on how said pain was inflicted and who the person on the receiving end is. I am no stranger to extreme pain, I am a survivor of things that should have left me dead instead of on a forum typing this post. Some of my survival was luck, but a lot of it was my sheer willpower to make it out alive. It is amazing what a human being can go through, and still survive. You can see it all the time, if you have the sight to see yourself and therefore see other people.

Pain can simply destroy and nothing else, and often it does... But sometimes, such as with people like myself, the very pain that threatened my life has actually propelled me into living life more fully. To being very conscious of my life force, flowing in and out again with every heartbeat, every breath I take.

This part of your post was intriguing for me, Underground, because I have found that it was essential for my survival to give the pain I was and still am in significance. I had to give it meaning, otherwise I would not be here. I am sure of that.

Also, darkness does not equate to evil just as light does not equate to good.

I 100% agree and relate to everything you said. I guess it is safe to say that you learn things from pain. Learn things about yourself you never thought you knew :P

[ididwhat?]

Originally Posted by ValentinaVVV

That moment of truth for NONS. When we discover they will never change.

Same kind of moment of truth... when the nons discover the narcs will never change.

SMH..... Out of all the post's here this is what the concern is. Someday it may get better, should I hold my breath??? Of course I shouldn't!!

[here today]

Yes, use your breath to continue to speak out.

People come here to take potshots at “narcs” because they believe they can and that it’s a socially acceptable thing to do. The touchy-feely therapists that dominate the field today have written article after article and book about this. No help for people with NPD, let’s just socially marginalize them instead.

Coming here to take potshots at people they don’t know is what the nons do instead of dealing with people in their real life directly.

You called them out once and I believe it’s accurate: “HATERS”

Not that hate isn’t a useful emotion – it can keep you away from people you distrust. But the point is, from everything I have read on this forum, the narcissists are more focused on loving themselves than hating others.

Originally Posted by here today

Yes, use your breath to continue to speak out.

People come here to take potshots at “narcs” because they believe they can and that it’s a socially acceptable thing to do. The touchy-feely therapists that dominate the field today have written article after article and book about this. No help for people with NPD, let’s just socially marginalize them instead.

Coming here to take potshots at people they don’t know is what the nons do instead of dealing with people in their real life directly.

You called them out once and I believe it’s accurate: “HATERS”

Not that hate isn’t a useful emotion – it can keep you away from people you distrust. But the point is, from everything I have read on this forum, the narcissists are more focused on loving themselves than hating others.

I will continue to use my breath lol!! Very accurate in your writings, especially enjoyed paragraphs 3 & 5!! Keep up the great work. Nice to see some originals writing again. Can't say the same for the others. What will it take??? Someday we shall see...

[vonmoxie]

I don't know why it's seen as so surprising that narcs in particular might never change when most people never change, no matter how much a spouse or a partner or a parent might really really want it to happen. Why hold narcs any more tightly to a standard that the majority of the species doesn't achieve either? We're all sort of born who we are. Like Jay Z says in

and pretty aptly "no matter where you go, you are what you are, player; and you can try to change, but that's just the top layer; man, you was who you was 'fore you got here. Only God can judge me so I'm gone, either love me or leave me alone.."

I used to ask myself that question of why would I be attracted to people (not necessarily narcs but whomever, my own personal rogues gallery) who ended up abusing or just generally forsaking me in prior relationships, but these days I reject the premise entirely, that somehow I was drawn specifically to just that which would hurt me later. For me it's been much more valuable to look at past relationships with a blame-free lens, so that I don't demonize and thusly obfuscate the meaning and future potential of that which was good. Watch out for dolphins in your tuna net and all.

I had to share this video because I know this would touch some people here. Not so much in this room but I suppose others here will appreciate. One of my top 5 right now so when I saw the video I knew it would be fitting here!!

[Atypical_Disaster]

Originally Posted by Underground

SMH..... Out of all the post's here this is what the concern is. Someday it may get better, should I hold my breath??? Of course I shouldn't!!

Yes I must say I don't quite understand the logic of a lot of people who come by here. You can ask the Narcissists here about basically anything, yet you see these broken record posts all the time.

[Atypical_Disaster]

Originally Posted by here today

Yes, use your breath to continue to speak out.

People come here to take potshots at “narcs” because they believe they can and that it’s a socially acceptable thing to do. The touchy-feely therapists that dominate the field today have written article after article and book about this. No help for people with NPD, let’s just socially marginalize them instead.

Coming here to take potshots at people they don’t know is what the nons do instead of dealing with people in their real life directly.

You called them out once and I believe it’s accurate: “HATERS”

Not that hate isn’t a useful emotion – it can keep you away from people you distrust. But the point is, from everything I have read on this forum, the narcissists are more focused on loving themselves than hating others.

I think it's really remarkably unempathetic of these so called professionals and really of those who claim they feel empathy "normally". Marginalizing an entire group of people based off a certain label has never done anything good for society, quite the opposite matter of fact(seriously, do people know any history anymore?)

[The_little_didgee]

Originally Posted by here today

People come here to take potshots at “narcs” because they believe they can and that it’s a socially acceptable thing to do. The touchy-feely therapists that dominate the field today have written article after article and book about this. No help for people with NPD, let’s just socially marginalize them instead.

Coming here to take potshots at people they don’t know is what the nons do instead of dealing with people in their real life directly.

It is always easier to blame the client for lack of progress. Professionals who marginalize certain patient populations find that a lot easier to do than actually putting any effort into therapy/treatment and admitting their shortcomings even to themselves. A professional who is willing to be more effective will learn from experiences like this and will not blame the client.

How simple minded most truly are. This is why I gave up on therapy and medicine. You see that I found myself all too often manipulating the doctors and getting too much satisfaction in doing so. Whether I wanted to get what ever medicine I wanted just to see if I could or if I wanted to see that look in their eyes knowing they couldn't really grasp what I was saying. At the end of the day it was always to feed myself and not really get the help I needed. Maybe it's because they weren't good enough lol. Anyhow life is what it is, get up everyday and be all you can be. After that what else?? Doc or no doc!! Btw with no medicine for a month now I feel normal!! Relatively speaking ha ha ha....

[Atypical_Disaster]

Originally Posted by Underground

How simple minded most truly are. This is why I gave up on therapy and medicine. You see that I found myself all too often manipulating the doctors and getting too much satisfaction in doing so. Whether I wanted to get what ever medicine I wanted just to see if I could or if I wanted to see that look in their eyes knowing they couldn't really grasp what I was saying. At the end of the day it was always to feed myself and not really get the help I needed. Maybe it's because they weren't good enough lol. Anyhow life is what it is, get up everyday and be all you can be. After that what else?? Doc or no doc!! Btw with no medicine for a month now I feel normal!! Relatively speaking ha ha ha....

Yes, I have had similar problems. Therapy has proved to be just a game I'm playing, over and over again. It's not worth wasting my time. I think that some people are simply beyond "professional" help, not in the sense that they cannot be helped, but in the sense of well, some people are just too complex for that. Issues like narcissism are hardly simple, and add into the equation that most therapists have no idea of what to do if one walks into their office... There you go. It just isn't going to work.

I've found far more answers outside of psychology. I left it all entirely because to be frank they kept changing my diagnosis seemingly every two weeks. It was ridiculous and I didn't have the time (or money) to put up with it anymore.

How are things Atypical? Transitioning well? Always great to see a reply from you!!

[Atypical_Disaster]

Originally Posted by Underground

How are things Atypical? Transitioning well? Always great to see a reply from you!!

Life is good lately, thanks for asking! It's good to be around here again.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[here today]

Would you like to write some more about answers you have found outside of psychology? I like mindfulness and some Buddhist ideas, though not all.

Narcissism is indeed complicated and believe it is ridiculous, or sad or both, that scientist psychologists aren't studying it more in terms of how it affects how people actually function in the world. The pop psych stuff to me is mostly NOT science in the way I understand science.

[Atypical_Disaster]

Originally Posted by here today

Would you like to write some more about answers you have found outside of psychology? I like mindfulness and some Buddhist ideas, though not all.

Narcissism is indeed complicated and believe it is ridiculous, or sad or both, that scientist psychologists aren't studying it more in terms of how it affects how people actually function in the world. The pop psych stuff to me is mostly NOT science in the way I understand science.

I've found solid answers through spirituality, and by listening to my own Self.

I treat pop psychology with all the credibility it deserves: less than zero.

I've read a ton of books about narcissism(it's got to be a pretty hefty chunk of what's on my tablet), I take what actually rings true for my experiences and discard the rest. Most things written about narcissism are utter crap, but every once and awhile I'll actually read something that's useful.

I'd like to know the science behind a narcissist's lack of empathy for example, as the mechanism seems to work differently than that of a primary psychopath.

When I see people quoting pop psychology I usually just swat them away. I don't have time for nonsense, I have a very busy inner and outer life. I don't have time to correct people who don't even care about what's actually accurate. People believe what they want to believe.

[Fuzzybear]

Originally Posted by The_little_didgee

It is always easier to blame the client for lack of progress. Professionals who marginalize certain patient populations find that a lot easier to do than actually putting any effort into therapy/treatment and admitting their shortcomings even to themselves. A professional who is willing to be more effective will learn from experiences like this and will not blame the client.

[makinitmorgan]

I have a question about narcs. I've had a 15 year friendship with a narc and it feels very one sided a lot of the time. He texts me often. I hear when he's proud, frustrated, annoyed and interesting things he reads throughout the day. He never says nice things to me (usually he boasts about how intelligent he is). If he says something about me it's usually neutral or slightly insulting. He says he doesn't give a lot of compliments because he is just hard to impress lol.

I used to feel cared about just because he was texting so frequently. Now I am frightened that I am just narc supply and this makes me feel totally unstable (I think I have a possible disorder or issue of my own because I don't think most people are so impacted by the feelings of others like I am).

Our friendships means so much to me. I would like to know if he could actually care about me? If he could actually miss me? If our friendship could be important? I also dont know how to communicate with him about my feelings. I try not to mention my feelings because I feel like if I do, it annoys him. He dodges questions or finds a way to change the subject. He seems to communicate less for a while afterwards as well.

[Atypical_Disaster]

Originally Posted by makinitmorgan

I have a question about narcs. I've had a 15 year friendship with a narc and it feels very one sided a lot of the time. He texts me often. I hear when he's proud, frustrated, annoyed and interesting things he reads throughout the day. He never says nice things to me (usually he boasts about how intelligent he is). If he says something about me it's usually neutral or slightly insulting. He says he doesn't give a lot of compliments because he is just hard to impress lol.

I used to feel cared about just because he was texting so frequently. Now I am frightened that I am just narc supply and this makes me feel totally unstable (I think I have a possible disorder or issue of my own because I don't think most people are so impacted by the feelings of others like I am).

Our friendships means so much to me. I would like to know if he could actually care about me? If he could actually miss me? If our friendship could be important? I also dont know how to communicate with him about my feelings. I try not to mention my feelings because I feel like if I do, it annoys him. He dodges questions or finds a way to change the subject. He seems to communicate less for a while afterwards as well.

Full-blown Narcissists don't truly care about anyone except themselves.

If this guy is a Narcissist, he'd be upset to lose you only because you're a source of supply for him that he would no longer be getting if you left him. The friendship is only important to him in the sense of what it gives him.

[hazn]

Originally Posted by makinitmorgan

I have a question about narcs. I've had a 15 year friendship with a narc and it feels very one sided a lot of the time. He texts me often. I hear when he's proud, frustrated, annoyed and interesting things he reads throughout the day. He never says nice things to me (usually he boasts about how intelligent he is). If he says something about me it's usually neutral or slightly insulting. He says he doesn't give a lot of compliments because he is just hard to impress lol.

I used to feel cared about just because he was texting so frequently. Now I am frightened that I am just narc supply and this makes me feel totally unstable (I think I have a possible disorder or issue of my own because I don't think most people are so impacted by the feelings of others like I am).

Our friendships means so much to me. I would like to know if he could actually care about me? If he could actually miss me? If our friendship could be important? I also dont know how to communicate with him about my feelings. I try not to mention my feelings because I feel like if I do, it annoys him. He dodges questions or finds a way to change the subject. He seems to communicate less for a while afterwards as well.

I think you already know that this is a toxic relationship. Please get out before you lose yourself.

[hazn]

Also, this idea that you may have a disorder... maybe you do, maybe you don't. No one here can answer that question for you. HOWEVER... I hope you realise that these types of toxic relationships WILL bring out the worst in you. If someone is constantly ignoring you, disregarding your feelings, and generally being a crappy person, you can't blame yourself for how that makes you feel. No one wants to be treated in contempt by someone they love and care for. Having said that, you are responsible for doing something to stop this kind of toxic dynamic from continuing. If you think you can just learn to ignore it, or be less sensitive, or become less needy or whatever, you're already disrespecting yourself. Do you remember what a healthy relationship looks like? Imagine the type of healthy relationships you want, and compare that to what you have with this person -- are they at all similar?

[Atypical_Disaster]

Originally Posted by hazn

I think you already know that this is a toxic relationship. Please get out before you lose yourself.

Good point. Usually if you're at the point of posting on a forum about it, you already know it's a toxic relationship on some level. Otherwise how would you have the insight to even be posting about it?

[makinitmorgan]

This is so depressing. I appreciate your honestly though everyone. I do think I needed to hear that. Issue is they are also people too. They can't help that the have NPD. It makes me feel guilty to justvwalk away.