[Shangrala]

Over the years I have come to take notice of how most adults (not all), seem to discredit kids for the intelligence that they have, and don't acknowledge the respect that they deserve. Why is that?

Could it be because throughout the years of my upbringing (now 50), as children we were taught that kids are meant to be seen and not heard, to naturally respect their elders with absolutely no indication of rebellion, (though it couldn't stop us from thinking about it). I couldn't even roll my eyes at my mother without knowing that that would be followed by a swift smack from the back of her hand.
With that as a major influence in the foundation of our raisings, could it also be that we just naturally accepted the fact that, as children, we simply were not given that acknowledgement of respect, or credited for our intelligence? Therefore, we assume the same for our children's generation?

I, for one, am not only more than aware that our children's generation are more intelligent than what we were at that age, but make it a point to acknowledge to them that they also deserve respect as people.

Last year I was told by one of my daughter's 6th grade teachers that the kids now days demand respect from adults first before they provide it to us in return. That alone is such contradictions to that which we were raised to believe and perhaps may explain why most adults now still overlook that.
I realize that being an adult is a full time job, but must that blind some of us to the fact that our children are people too and therefore rightly deserve the same respect that we demand from them? After all, respect is something, which is earned and requires constant attention to maintain.

It is a known fact that on a daily basis our children must face much greater levels of stress than we could have even imagined when we were at that age. Isn't that alone enough to grant them with what they already have so rightly earned? And with their higher level of intelligence, isn't the act of refusing them that right a signal to them that we, in fact, view them as a lesser person, therefore are merely insulting them?
It makes little sense to me how we as adults expect our children of this day and age to do as we say and not as we do. When in fact, it is our very children who usually seem to predict what it is that we will be saying before we even say it. And what amazes me is that the majority of adults don't even realize this happening, yet are baffled as to why this constant major conflict continues and worsens.

Another factor is as with many children in this age of technology, computers play the influential role of their future. Anymore, the mere thought of a computer immediately associates the inclusion of the Internet. How many people do we personally know who doesn't have the Internet? I know of very few, if only a couple. And with the Internet comes exposure to more than what we would our children be subjected to.
I allow my 13 year old daughter to use the Internet freely, (with of course the necessary parental blocking from those unfavored sites).
Because of the fact that our household is quite Internet-associated, my daughter has a high level of Internet savvy with well-refined sense of "netequette". She has been exposed to the use of computers since the age of two, and is very aware of the rules associated to using the Internet. Because of this, monitoring my daughter's activity is not a criteria, (however, it certainly doesn't hurt having my own personal system stationed adjacent to hers).
With her approaching the "teen-social" years, she has made a number of good friends online through the use of MSN, Skype, some camcorder use and a couple of her online multi-player games. All the while I have made note to the reluctance from most of her friend’s parents of their children actually making these friends online.
What has worked well for my daughter and me regarding any possible issues resulting from these Internet friendships is to establish and maintain an open relationship with my daughter and any of her friends who were receptive of the idea. I believe that because of this approach of mine, I have developed a mutual level of respect and trust with many of her friends.
However, it has amazed me of the fact that the majority of these kids has expressed that their parents are unaware of their Internet friendships and would be punished for even establishing them.

Is it possible that I am overly optimistic regarding my approach? Am I being too hopeful?
I am only curious to know the opinions of other adults out there. Would be interesting to discover if my outlook is, in fact, shared by others.

I apologise for the extensiveness of this post.
(I have the tendency to babble).
Thanks for your time.

I haven't alot of time right now to respond, as my eight month old son is demanding my attention, and quite loudly, lol. I just wanted to tell you I wholeheartedly beleive we should parent with respect. I agree with you completely.

I highly doubt teens now are any more intellegent than teens 50 years ago. They may posess different types of knowledge or more knowledge than teens 50 years ago but that has everything to do with the type of technology today nothing to do with intellegence. 50 years ago people couldnt rely on calculators as there prolly were none and had to do all their math (even the hard stuff) in their head or on paper. Personally i think teens are a lot more disrespectful now than teens even 10 years ago, because they are allowed to get away with more. Where i work, i deal with customers on a daily basis, and we are required to treat each customer politely and respectfully yet its more often than not the teens that treat us disrespectfully rather than the adults. Perhaps its the lack of a smack now and then that results in such disrespect, violence and bad language. Of course a large amount of that has to do with movies, video games and internet access. Afterall the occasional smack on the bottom never hurt anybody. I know because my parents smacked my brothers and I occasionally when we did something that diserved it and it worked a lot better than grounding us or sending us to our rooms. And even tho we did get smacked occasionally when we diserved it my parents did respect us AND our intellegence.
Anyway... just my thoughts.

[KathyM]

I'm not so sure it's just discrediting kids. I think many adults are too consumed with their own lives and just don't care about the lives of teenagers, sometimes even their own.

I've always respected my son's opinions, but we always had the final say-so. In order for the "family unit" to work, it was imperative he show us respect and follow our rules. He had to prove himself first before he was given any liberty, and my husband tested him often. Respecting authority is a big deal in the real world - even adults have to respect authority.

Along the way, we began to trust his judgment. During junior high, I'd occasionally allow him to "take the reins" (handle a situation his way) even though I knew he wouldn't like the way it would end. It was a good lesson for him while he was still safely under my roof, and a good opportunity for us to say "Now what are you going to do, smarty pants?"

Kids may be smart, but they don't know everything about life.

You are smart for getting to know your daughter's online friends, and I'm glad you have an open and honest relationship with her. It's a shame you can't get to know the parents of her friends too.

[pachyderm]

> even adults have to respect authority

This could produce a long discussion just by itself...

[Blue93]

I disagree with people saying you need to smack kids in order to install some sense of politeness into them and respect for adults
It's like saying 'do what I want you to do or else...'
It's very UNRESPECTFUL to hit kids to make them RESPECT you in my opinion...

[Lenny]

In journals found throughout history,,thoughts and considerations by adults of children are as commons those by children of adults...Nobody ever seems to understand...

I think a little bit of envy plagues both sides of this forever conflict...

But I think that the acorn seldom falls far from the tree and our children are the great masters of mimic...so we do indeed reap what we sow...

A child will value and respect what their parents do...and sin in similar ways...

If we want to change our children,,we must first change ourselves..

IMHO.

Lenny

[Shangrala]

I so agree that kids may be smart but don't know everything. That seems almost impossible, with experience being the most impressionable teacher and kids too young yet to have obtained much of that experience.

It's important that we practice the strategy of allowing kids the opportunity to make those valued mistakes while they are still at home and having the support of parents to help dust them off as they stand from their fall. Seems to me that by sheltering kids from those much needed lessons diverts them from gaining an understanding of how ruthless the real world can be.

Years ago, throughout the raising my husband's kids, (now grown and with families of their own), I provided them the space to make the necessary errors, yet maintained a fair means of control through (what I call) the "win/win" tactic. When they were confronted with a dilemma, I allowed them the opportunity to decide for themselves providing they chose from the options that I offered them. Regardless of which option they chose, the results would be to their favor, some greater or lesser rewarding. However, with that option of deciding for themselves, they also fully understood that regardless of their choice, they were required to take full responsibility for their action. I believe this gave them a good sense of control of their own lives, building essential confidence as well as obtaining a gradual understanding of how to deal with real issues. This tactic also removed me as being the "bad guy" if it didn't turn out the way they had hoped. (They couldn't blame me for a decision they made for themselves. However, I also couldn't (and wouldn't) take the credit for making that right decision).

Teens are naturally rebellious and self-absorbed. They are compelled to defy (within reason) most who represent authority.
To and extent I support the fact that teens today are more disrespectful as opposed to even a decade ago. Perhaps that can be the result from the financial demands of mere survival in today’s society. The majority of families require that both parents’ work, or the household is struggling with a single parent, thus our teens have far too much unsupervised time on their hands.

It should also be taken into a consideration that maybe the laws have changed so much to the point where our kid's have been given too much "freedom rights" at far too young of an age to even understand what the purpose of the laws even are.?????
It is also possible that, as mentioned in a previous reply, there are some parents who simply do not have the capability to be attentive because of the constant conflicts that mere living demands. Exhausted both mentally and physically, they simply cannot find the extra energy to devote to the needs that teens require.

I have noticed, too, that the resources for enjoyment to teens are at a steady decline. Most cities I’ve resided in have replaced recreational facilities with more condos or business complexes, leaving our kids with minimal options to seek what is considered to be safe environments for social activities. If there are facilities that are available for our kids they seem to be either unreasonable in price, or in distance. Regardless, they seem to be forced to have to rely on someone other than self to access it. Is it possible that this may also be a result of why our kids resort to sticking their face in front of a monitor to obtain a means of socializing?

I’ve always felt that if I ever were to win the lottery, (which is unrealistic, as I don’t even pay to play), I would attend to the development of a facility that would provide our kids a means of enjoyment. Something that they can access easily and socialize safely in. Something that is equally enjoyable and appealing to all ages. And requires little to no money.
(Talk about being a hopeless optimist...Weeeeeee!!)

Thanks for taking out the time to read, and respond.

OMG!....Lenny, you hit the nail smack center on the head!
"BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE HAPPEN". I couldn't agree more!

hey i never said anything about smacking kids to make them respect you. I said you should smack them when they need to be smacked disapline wise. Just remember, for every bad thing your teenager does that you know about, there are about a million other things that your teenager has done/said that you dont know about that could be a million times worse than what you do know about.
btw by smacking i didnt mean beating the kid until it turned black and blue. cuz dude, thats just child abuse.

[Blue93]

i know.
still dont agree smacking should be part of discipline
it lears you nothing except that if the parent doesn't know how to handle you or is tired or moody already you get hit if you do something they dont approve of...
but i guess we won't agree about that then...

[I_miss_my_kitty]

I agree with Blue. I think hitting a child might be the reason of some of the issues today. I was beaten by my mom was I was younger for every thing , It just made me afraid and angry, and gradually it came to a point where I hated her.

yeah but the difference is that you were beaten for everything. a smack isnt being beaten and occasionally doesnt mean for everything. my parents spanked me when i deserved it and im not afraid of them or angry at them and i certainly dont hate my parents and never have.

[SeptemberMorn]

My daughter told me once that respect has to be earned. I totally disagreed with her, as far as our relationship was concerned. I am her mother and a good one at that. That fact alone demands that she respects me, not to mention the fact that I am her elder and our religious beliefs demand it.

Yes, parents need to treat their children with the same respect that we expect from our children. They have the same rights that adults do because they are humans, living creatures. All living creatures deserve a degree of respect... well, except the malicious, harmful ones.

Trust also has a lot to do with how a child is raised and treated. Trust is the same as respect. You begin by trusting unless a person proves untrustworthy.

Today, parents are too busy with other things to give their children the proper attention. It's the rare parent that can hold down a full time job outside the home and also do a good job of raising their offspring. Just not enough time spent with the kids.

The media also has a lot to do with kids lack of respect and responsibility today. By media I mean TV, radio music stations, and most of the computer and other games, movies and even commercials. Internet chat rooms are downright scary! It's not only the lack of respect for each other but it's a vast playground for perpetrators of all kinds.

True discipline has gone by the wayside. "Discipline" means to teach, first and foremost. When my youngest DIL had my granddaughter and the baby started walking around and getting into things, my DIL would tell her "Be nice!" That's all. Finally, when it drove me up the wall, I told my DIL that she had to teach her daughter what is nice and what isn't.

If a parent spanks, they spank or beat out of their own anger and not according to the wrong done by the child. I have always believed in spanking in the proper circumstance. A major punishment was three smacks on the bottom, no where else. True withholding of priviledges, IMO, is the best way to discipline. Consistency plays a very important role. Forget any kind of discipline if you can't be consistant.

Do I sound like an authority in raising children? Well, if raising three kids of my own and one step-son that is just like my own, and helping to raise nine grandkids, then I'm an expert. LOL Most of what I learned, I learned it with my grandkids. I can look back and see some of the mistakes I made with my own kids. I never hesitate to apologize, either to my own kids or my grandkids. The oldest is 17 and the youngest is three. I beam at the thought of any one of them.

[multipixie9]

my grown daughters are in an affectionate and open relationship with me and their dad. (we've been married 28 years...a very long 28 years!)

i came from a home of sporadic violence. i was ignored one day for something very wrong and slapped the next for no reason i could discern. it played havoc with my mind and heart.(actually, i was trying to not trigger anyone, i went through a lot of emotional and physical abuse for years)

Phil and i chose to be pretty broke and allow me to stay at home and our children did benefit from that - though we were far from wonder-parents. but, i know that we did a few things right. we seldom spanked and when we did it was for one of three things - disrepect, deliberate disobedience, intentional meanness to someone else. WE NEVER SPANKED FOR ACCIDENTS OR MISTAKES MADE. We never spanked until we were calm - even if it meant we had to separate from the child until we cooled off. Then our daughters were told why they were being punished and on our best days we also told them how to avoid the problem. they received swats from a paddle on their bottom only and never with harsh force., we never struck them with our hands, we never slapped them . i intentionally got a scary looking paddle (found it at the thrift store!) so i never needed to swat very hard. No marks were left on my daughters. after the fireworks were over we reminded them how much we loved them and did not like having to spank.(my oldest was most rebellious and got her last "spanking" at age 13 for deliberate disobedience to her dad, our youngest daughter was more easy going and probably more sly, but she got her last paddling at around 9 - no two kids are alike, even identical twins - inside!)

The world will not stop to accomodate my children. my job as parent was to teach them how life works and what is expected of them as good, decent people. my daughters have done a few things that helped me aquire my greying hair. they are also wonderful, good , kind women. i love them to death.

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by SeptemberMorn

My daughter told me once that respect has to be earned. I totally disagreed with her, as far as our relationship was concerned. I am her mother and a good one at that. That fact alone demands that she respects me, not to mention the fact that I am her elder and our religious beliefs demand it.

!

[Lenny]

Originally Posted by SeptemberMorn

My daughter told me once that respect has to be earned. I totally disagreed with her, as far as our relationship was concerned. I am her mother and a good one at that. That fact alone demands that she respects me, not to mention the fact that I am her elder and our religious beliefs demand it.

I know many parents that don't deserve their childrens respect...it is a stretch that they even must carry their name...At one time I was one of those parents. It took me a very long time to earn what my biology definned.

I too believe that respect should be earned and not given because of a title or a set of genes. Demanding respect for anything IMHO is a foundation for dismissing it.

Fairness and justice are concepts that underlay respect. They are the institutions of compromise which is priceless in any gathering of two or more.

I also agree that violence of any kind for any reason other than defense is an overlay upon the spirit of all persons,,especially children. It teaches them that physical power is the ultimate power, which is simply not true.

IMHO.

Lenny

What Multipixi9 said is exactly what iv been talking about when i say "spanking"......

[I_miss_my_kitty]

Originally Posted by Hyper1

yeah but the difference is that you were beaten for everything. a smack isnt being beaten and occasionally doesnt mean for everything. my parents spanked me when i deserved it and im not afraid of them or angry at them and i certainly dont hate my parents and never have.

I don't hate my mom anymore. just think parents should be careful about how, why and when they punish their children.

[Blue93]

Originally Posted by Lenny

I also agree that violence of any kind for any reason other than defense is an overlay upon the spirit of all persons,,especially children. It teaches them that physical power is the ultimate power, which is simply not true.

Yes..... that is exactly what I mean.

Of course my own parents weren't a good example as they would hit us for everything and anything and without a reason too, esp if they'd be drunk -sometimes leading up to broken bones and internal injuries but....

Even though my experience is much more extreme then for most people.
I still think any kind of hitting or violence is the wrong way to want to raise your kids.
Its degrading I think and simply proves you appereantly cannot handle them without hitting them into doing what you want them to do or is just copying your own parents raising tactics without even questioning why you are doing it.

I'm not saying you are a bad parent if you've hit your kids once or twice as everyone including parents do things they regret later but.. if you think its ok to hit them (in any way) maybe you need to take parenting classes to find other non-violence way to control your kids....

Hope I don't offend anyone by this..

Blue

[SophiaG]

I dont understand why people need to hit their kids at ALL to punish them. One adult would say that hitting another adult is WRONG, no matter what it was for. But yet it is ok to hit a kid???

There are other ways to punish a kid that are effective.

[Blue93]

yes! thank you sophia....

[SeptemberMorn]

Originally Posted by Lenny

I know many parents that don't deserve their childrens respect...it is a stretch that they even must carry their name...At one time I was one of those parents. It took me a very long time to earn what my biology definned.

That's very true, Lenny. I'm one of those people who changed my name because it was also the name of one of my abusers. The fact is that not all things were equal either in your relationship with your children or mine with two of my authority figures who were also my abusers.

My faith also requires that parents not bring their children to temptation or ire. We're not to ask them to do illegal, unreasonable or dangerous things or to put them in such situations. In fact, I divorced my first, and I hesitate to call him "husband", because he didn't believe as I did. He believed that to "control a child is to put fear in him/her"! Abosuolutely NOT!! To begin with, I don't believe in "controlling" a child. You TEACH them. They do like to test the boundaries and that's when some sort of punishment, ie "suffering the consequences for their actions" is needed. Through all of this, if you respect their personhood, you teach them to give respect, also. Because you "took them to raise" and you're raising them properly, you better believe that a parent deserves respect!

[BlueFaith]

I was raised in a household with a severe alcoholic for a mother, and a preacher for a father. Go figure that one out... but anyway. I was spanked for anything I did wrong.... and I mean anything. I have an older sibling and if something was done wrong and neither of us fessed up to doing it... we both got spanked.... with belts, clothes hangers, shoes, switches, paddles... just anything that was convenient at the time. That type of punishment, I do not believe in. Now, I have 3 children of my own, and I think very thouroughly about what their punishment will be if they misbehave or do something they shouldn't be doing. I don't believe it always has to be a spanking. I don't want their respect out of fear. I don't want them to fear me. Because I feared my parents very much, and when times came that I really needed to talk to them about something important in my life, I was too afraid to do so. My children know their boundaries, and they are not afraid of me or my husband. But, they also know that there will be consequences if they do something they know better than to do. So, I believe you have to give respect to get it..... even when it comes to your own children/grandchildren. Just being beat on or spanked for everything you do wrong is not teaching anything but pure fear. Now, I have come to terms with my upbringing, and I don't hate my parents. They raised me how they were raised.... and I'm not saying that's an excuse, because it's not. The cycle to that can be broken.... I broke it with my children. Like SeptemberMorn said, you have to "TEACH" them. They won't know anything otherwise. Just my 2 cents.

[Lenny]

Originally Posted by SeptemberMorn

That's very true, Lenny. I'm one of those people who changed my name because it was also the name of one of my abusers. The fact is that not all things were equal either in your relationship with your children or mine with two of my authority figures who were also my abusers.

My faith also requires that parents not bring their children to temptation or ire. We're not to ask them to do illegal, unreasonable or dangerous things or to put them in such situations. In fact, I divorced my first, and I hesitate to call him "husband", because he didn't believe as I did. He believed that to "control a child is to put fear in him/her"! Abosuolutely NOT!! To begin with, I don't believe in "controlling" a child. You TEACH them. They do like to test the boundaries and that's when some sort of punishment, ie "suffering the consequences for their actions" is needed. Through all of this, if you respect their personhood, you teach them to give respect, also. Because you "took them to raise" and you're raising them properly, you better believe that a parent deserves respect!

I respect your opinions SeptemberMorn and your right to own them. I can't even quarrel with them. I know many people who were spanked(and otherwise) who are balanced well intentioned human beings. There is an aspect of corporal punishment that moves it from consequence to abuse..I can't define that for you,,it seems that person being "spanked" is best equiped to know when that line was/is crossed. Some of them will maybe become members here.

I'm not sure about your first point of ineqality in parent/child relationships dynamics. Isn't the reality of ineqaulity part of the spur to maturity? I have witnessed some dynamics of this kind where the parents attempt global equality in their relationship with their children. It is absurd,,the results of such silly self centered behavior by the adults(?) in this facade is near complete dysfunction. Drinking and drugging together at 15 does not "teach" a future Mother of the Year...

Again, I am not intending any conflict but your language is what raised a flag in me. "Demand" is a very powerfull word. When used,,it usually depicts a point of intolerance. I am personally uncomfortable with intolerance. But that is my state of mind and it belongs to me. I have no right to insinuate that is it any "righter" than anyones elses.

For that I appologise.

Lenny

Lenny
I agree with you. We as adults have to earn our children's respect as much as they do ours. Children are children. Never hit them. Your right it only teaches violence.
There are other ways. Taking away the net, taking away cell phones, no tv. Its endless.((( Talking with them first open communication. So we know whats going on . )))))))))))
I can say along the road of being a parent I forsure have not been perfect. I have thou never ever hit my kids. Its just not in me. I have with each child.((they are grown now almost))
had issues with them . But we have worked it out. The only way we worked it out was by talking and really relating to each other.
When my son was born I became a work at home mom. I choose that. I knew he needed me and could not be a latch key child. It never would have worked. I was very blessed i could do that.
Both of my kids have been threw some really hard times with me. At one point no money, years ago. They had to be with me when i lost so much of my family,.They did amazing things during that time.
I do think it really helped that i talked to them all the time. Its about everything too. I am sure i drive them up the wall. But they do let me know if there is a issue. Sometimes I would like to cover my ears.
But i am so grateful they do come to me. My daughter calls me from college at least 3xs a day. I think we have great respect now for each other , Her and I. Writing that makes me smile.
Sorry I am making this a (( I )) thing. Its the only way i can connect it .
We do not need to lose touch with our youth, We need to take part in it. Know what they are watching on Tv. Know what they are doing on the net. Get them to go outside do more physical activities.
My son hardly watches TV now or plays video games or is on the net. Hes outside skate boarding and doing things.
you have all read the issues he has had. Violence only teaches violence...........
One more thing sorry to go on and on. We as adults can help community's we live in start back up youth centers. Skate board parks. Safe places for our children to be.
We can show them the way....While doing that learn so much from them. They are so very very smart .....The stuff our children have to share is amazing. That's every child......sometimes
they show us the way.........
sorry for going on...something really close to my heart......ty
muffy