[sunsetbay]

Hi I'm new here and a self diagnosed BPD. Glad I found this thread as I grew up wondering why the hell I was so different from everyone in terms of handling stress and emotions.

I came across a post over at another forum while searching for more info and support for BPD and I was extremely disheartened to read the thread but thought i'll bring it out for discussion over here.

http://www.bpdcentral.com/nookboard/...?topic=40306.0

In short, the posters (who are mostly family members living with a person diagnosed with BPD) said that people with BPD are rarely (if not impossible) to be genuinely nice.

God... this breaks my heart! I've always thought of myself as a nice person... as in genuinely nice and want the best for others. Ok, so I may appear self centered at times due to my lack of energy levels, paranoia, proscrastination and insecurities/fears but overall I'm a good person at heart. I do whatever I can for my loved ones when I'm having an ok day.

It saddens me to think that I'm not capable of being nice when I have a BPD. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Hugs

[jbug]

I read the posts and it angered me. I have BPD and have since childhood. I believe I am nice just because I want to be nice not because i want something. I actually think I'm nice to my detrement because some people walk all over me in RL. So I guess my answer to your question is yes BPD'rs can be nice just to be nice. IMO The nook isn't real BPD friendly they pick out all our flaws and then pick over them kind of like picking at a sore til it festers and then becomes infected. I don't like the nook because of this and find that here plus bpdrecovery is the best place for me.

jbug

[sunsetbay]

{{{{{{{janniebug}}}}}}}}

Thanks, just what I needed to hear about people like us with BPD. It's already tough enough trying to deal with our emotions without our actions being questioned and scrutinised under a microscope.

Sometimes what I need is just a little bit of empathy and understanding. It's tough and just last night I felt really really depressed because my SO told me to "get a grip".

[LMo]

Ok, I have GOT to chime in on this one. I hope this makes you feel better and not worse, but please read this knowing that I'm at least TRYING to make you feel better...

First of all, the people in that thread all appear to have BPD SOs (either spouses, g/bfs, parents). I belong to a support group for SOs of people who are depressed, and let me tell you that what is happening in the thread you pointed us to is TYPICAL of people of support groups for SOs. Sort of like "it's not YOU, it's THEM".

In my other support group, and I believe in the one you posted, I should first say that emotions run very high. I'm not excusing anything, but if these people weren't stressed out, then they wouldn't be in the support group. I dated a guy with BPD and my husband was severely depressed for a few years, and let me tell you that as compassionate and empathizing as I try to be, it was NOT easy. The times when they needed understanding were usually the times they would lash out the hardest... and it's really difficult to put your own hurt aside and be nice to someone who isn't being nice to you. When they were nice to me, it was of course very easy to be nice back. It was when they were lashing out that was the most difficult to stay empathetic. I will admit that I've said some hurtful things to my husband when he was depressed, because his depression was affecting every single part of our lives and I was very frustrated and felt helpless. I didn't want to hurt him even for a second, but I needed some empathy and understanding, too.

The other thing is (and this is more important than the above) that almost EVERYBODY has a difficult time discerning the difference between one's personality and a personality disorder. I mean, to be fair, how is anyone supposed to know? This phenomenon does has two polar effects:
1) it causes people in failing relationships to blame "the disease" and stick it out even though the other person is clearly no longer committed (this is really common in the SOs of depression support group)
2) it gives people a wide-open forum to make generalizations. THAT is the part that pisses me off the most. Any negative personality trait gets cast into the pot of "the disorder" and next thing you know, all affected people are stereotyped. It's not fair, and it's frustrating to watch it build up.

Fortunately, my experience at PC has given me the chance to get to know MANY people with different personality/health concerns, and it's much easier to understand the person behind the disorder now. But remember that not everybody has had that chance. Most of them only know one person or have had one experience, and they may be a little scarred from it.

And while I haven't had the opportunity to get to know sunsetbay yet (welcome, btw!), I do know that Janniebug is one of the sweetest, nicest people I've ever seen on PC and that you deserve every bit of understanding and empathy from people online and in real life

[HelgaDE]

I was diagnoise of having borderline personality disorder by a psychatrists at the mental hospital and I must say that I'm pretty much a nice person. However I do have my moods! Mood swings are apart of the disorder, especially in females such as myself... When a woman has her period... it can be extremely diffcult with the person to be nice.. It is a fact that most women who get admitted to the hospital is suffering from PMS and have a personality disorder. All I can say is to UNDERSTAND the disorder and to not take anything personal from someone who suffers from it.

[LMo]

I don't think I articulated my original point well. I don't think it's a good idea to read the forums frequented by SOs of people with BPD. I used to think it was a good idea to get their perspective, but I now realize that most of them are too stressed out to be fair, and are using those support forums to vent their own frustration. I think what they say is mostly due to frustration and extreme cases -- not their calm perspective or average experience.

So sunsetbay, PLEASE do not think that you're not capable of being nice just because someone there said that. They weren't talking about YOU (rather, they were making an unfair generalization), and they are seriously stressed out.

Helga made a good point "not to take anything personal from someone who suffers from it" [ie, the disorder] but at the same time, please don't take it personally that the stressed-out SOs are making generalizations that probably don't specifically apply to you. Hang in there,
Love,
LMo

[kimmydawn]

LMo said:

Fortunately, my experience at PC has given me the chance to get to know MANY people with different personality/health concerns, and it's much easier to understand the person behind the disorder now. But remember that not everybody has had that chance. Most of them only know one person or have had one experience, and they may be a little scarred from it.

I couldn't agree more. It's kind of like when us ladies get together for a good old-fashioned gripe session. We're not (well not usually) dogging all men...just the one that ticked us off! It had that feel to me. Am I putting it down? Of course not! I enjoy a good session once a week! I do know that all men aren't the cause of my problem for that day.

I know SEVERAL BPD friends online who reach out to me most when others don't...just because.

KD

[LMo]

Excellent comparions about ladies' gripe sesion, KD... thanks! That's more or less what it is. A bunch of stressed-out yentas. Please take what they say with a grain of salt!

[hereiam]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
sunsetbay said:
Hi I'm new here and a self diagnosed BPD.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Self-diagnosed? Self-diagnoses, in general, is not a good idea as all diagnosing should be done by a trained professional. Sometimes, in a disorder, we can see a bit of ourselves but that doesn't necessarily mean we actually HAVE this disorder.

Do you have a therapist, or would you consider seeing one? They can help you greatly and may be able to give you a proper diagnosis, assuming that BPD isn't the right one, or back yours up assuming it is. Good luck!

Hi Sunsetbay and welcome.

First, I agree with "hereiam" about anyone self-diagnosing--- it would be good to see a professional to get a thorough evaluation. You might only have Borderline "tendencies" and not personality disorder.

And second, just because some people say they're loved one that is BPD has certain characteristics doesn't mean all BPD do. Like "LMO" said, these people posting such things are speaking through stress, being upset and dealing with a difficult situation for them.
You said---" It saddens me to think that I'm not capable of being nice when I have a BPD. "--- please realize-- they aren't talking about you specifically but their own SO.

My mother is BPD.... and I have to admit, my experience has been horrific to be raised by her. But you see.... that is her and I understand that not all BPD's are the same.

As I understand it....most people with a personality disorder-- have a dominate disorder with one or perhaps a few other disorder "tendencies". That's what makes us all so unique--most people don't just fit perfectly in any one diagnosis-- there could be one dominately BPD with narcissistic tendencies and yet another dominately BPD with histrionic tendencies. Or like me-- dominately AvPD with paranoid tendencies.

Who knows what your combination could be!!???

Wishing you well,
mandy

[Myzen]

Hi folks,

I can't resist adding something here, although it may be slightly controvertial.

In my experience, people with no diagnosis and who are thought of by themselves and others as normal are quite capable of lashing out and being very nasty.

There are a lot of cruelties happening in the world as we speak and they are not all being perpetrated by BPD diagnosed sufferers.

A diagnosis doesn't make you a bad person.

Good thoughts, M

PS - I'm not saying that A BPD diagnosed sufferer isn't difficult to get along with, but they might well be easier than some people who think that they are normal!

[Greenleaves]

I don't think you're being controversial. I think you're absolutely right. We can't blame only one group of people, we are all guilty of lashing out and hurting others at one time or another.

Also, I truly do not think there is such a thing as true altruism. Don't we all do "nice" things to make ourselves feel better? No matter how self sacrificing a person is, I think that in the end they are "guilty" of deriving some pleasure out of their self sacrifice for others.

So, I don't think there is such a thing as pure "niceness" for niceness' sake.

[Myzen]

Hi Greenleaves,

Hey, we are doing some philosophy together. It's good.

I nearly agree with your point about the altruism. I know that I want to be accepted, and being nice to people helps with that, but there is something else I hope. When I see someone hurting I do feel for them, and not for me. I believe that is true, even if I'm fooling myself.

Also, if my daughter is in trouble, I just don't exist, except as part of her support system.

That's how it feels for me, anyway.

Good to talk to you, Greenleaves

M

[Greenleaves]

I think that even if a mother were to sacrifice her life to save her children that it is still not "true" altruism. When she sacrifices her life to save her children she ensures that her genes are passed on successfully.

Would the mother do the same for a total stranger?

If she does, then I think there is a reason for it, like the stranger is an important person and if she dies, she gets to experience the good feeling that she has helped society out.

[LMo]

fantastic insight, Greenleaves and Myzen!

[Myzen]

Hi Greenleaves,

Gosh, you are certainly no slouch when it comes to intellect. Your argument is classic Darwinist evolution theory if I have my facts right.

I think from your bio that you're studying organic science, so I can see where you are coming from. My background is in moral philosophy so I think my opinion reflects that.

I respect your opinion Greenleaves, and it is a widely held view.

Good talking to you.

Cheers, M

[Greenleaves]

LOL, I don't know anything really about philosophy.

I am studying sciences though.

I respect your opinion too. It's a much kinder view of humanity.

[sunsetbay]

hi LMo

Thanks for your reply... I feel really touched at your long post and how you bothered to help.

To add on, I totally understand what you mean now and I will not take it personally... I understand their need to vent their frustrations just as I sometimes feel frustrated that my SO do not seem to understand me. It's a 2 way road and both parties are at a losing end. Right now, he refuses to acknowledge my depression and BPD without even trying to do more research on it.

I have been to a T who diagnosed me as depressed many years back (I had an ED, SIed, and was sexually assulted as a child) and 2 weeks ago I just went to a counsellor who told me to read up on BPD as he feels that I do show symtoms of it. I'm feeling rather alone on this as nobody know about this other than my SO and yet he refuses to take any action and told me not to take any medication. I think it's just his way of refusing to accept my problem and hoping that it will all go away. He said that he's always here to talk to me but it's not helping as he will end up telling me how weird I am and how my mentality is all wrong etc. He also cannot understand my eating disorder - I'm anorexic-bulimic.

I really can't cope with all the backlash I'm getting from him and I can't tell my family as I do not want them to worry about me... they are living far away from me and worrying about me does not help in any way as well. Right now it's only him and me and I've got nobody else to turn to for help... it's not looking good and all I want to do is get well... and to top it off this was triggered off by him (his lies and a couple of 6 figure debts due to gambling). I was getting by fine for almost 10 years. Sometimes I just want to fall into a deep sleep and never wake up - this is like a nightmare!

I'm sure glad I found this site.... even if he's not interested to help me I'm sure I'll be able more than determined to get well, of course with all the mutual support and understanding from all in this forum. At the very least I'll be able to gain some new friends and be able to lend my support to those who need it

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
LMo said:
Ok, I have GOT to chime in on this one. I hope this makes you feel better and not worse, but please read this knowing that I'm at least TRYING to make you feel better...

First of all, the people in that thread all appear to have BPD SOs (either spouses, g/bfs, parents). I belong to a support group for SOs of people who are depressed, and let me tell you that what is happening in the thread you pointed us to is TYPICAL of people of support groups for SOs. Sort of like "it's not YOU, it's THEM".

In my other support group, and I believe in the one you posted, I should first say that emotions run very high. I'm not excusing anything, but if these people weren't stressed out, then they wouldn't be in the support group. I dated a guy with BPD and my husband was severely depressed for a few years, and let me tell you that as compassionate and empathizing as I try to be, it was NOT easy. The times when they needed understanding were usually the times they would lash out the hardest... and it's really difficult to put your own hurt aside and be nice to someone who isn't being nice to you. When they were nice to me, it was of course very easy to be nice back. It was when they were lashing out that was the most difficult to stay empathetic. I will admit that I've said some hurtful things to my husband when he was depressed, because his depression was affecting every single part of our lives and I was very frustrated and felt helpless. I didn't want to hurt him even for a second, but I needed some empathy and understanding, too.

The other thing is (and this is more important than the above) that almost EVERYBODY has a difficult time discerning the difference between one's personality and a personality disorder. I mean, to be fair, how is anyone supposed to know? This phenomenon does has two polar effects:
1) it causes people in failing relationships to blame "the disease" and stick it out even though the other person is clearly no longer committed (this is really common in the SOs of depression support group)
2) it gives people a wide-open forum to make generalizations. THAT is the part that pisses me off the most. Any negative personality trait gets cast into the pot of "the disorder" and next thing you know, all affected people are stereotyped. It's not fair, and it's frustrating to watch it build up.

Fortunately, my experience at PC has given me the chance to get to know MANY people with different personality/health concerns, and it's much easier to understand the person behind the disorder now. But remember that not everybody has had that chance. Most of them only know one person or have had one experience, and they may be a little scarred from it.

And while I haven't had the opportunity to get to know sunsetbay yet (welcome, btw!), I do know that Janniebug is one of the sweetest, nicest people I've ever seen on PC and that you deserve every bit of understanding and empathy from people online and in real life

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

[sunsetbay]

Hi Myzen and Greenleaves

Thanks for the wonderful insight. I would have to say I agree with both your points although Greenleave's statement that there is no true altruism in the world leave me thinking about it for awhile. Ok, let's put it in another scenario... how about a person seeing a toddler abotu to cross the road in the way of an oncoming car and rushes out (ourely by instinct) to push the toddler out of the way so that the toddler does not get hit by the car? Let's assume that she does not know the toddler but it's just an instinct to "do the right thing" on her part. Is that altruism then? It's done purely on instinct and there's not much time to reflect and ponder ( a mere second can save the life of the toddler and risk her own).

hi 2be1better

Thanks, I totally understand your point. I think I have Dependent/Avoidant (kinda ironic huh) along with some narciccist characteristics along with my BPD.

[Rapunzel]

There is a lot of stigma associated with BPD. I've heard comments that peole with BPD are mean and difficult, etc. so that thread doesn't surprise me at all. It's a disorder with a bad reputation and that has sometimes been used as a catchall for any clients who are difficult or unpleasant. That's really sad, but it's what a lot of people think. BPD sufferers can be frustrating and difficult, but we are not always, and everybody is different. A diagnosis doesn't define who we are.

None of my therapists have diagnosed me with BPD, but whe I ask them about it they don't really argue. I think they just try to spare me the stigma, but I still can recognize the methods my T uses as ways to treat BPD. Some people (not therapists) when I tell them that I am sure I have BPD will argue with me and say that I'm not like that, because I'm not out of control and mean, etc. It's all there though. Usually I turn the rage against myself, not other people. I'm sad when someone else is hurt in the process. I have not always recognized that my rage does hurt other people. I don't mean for it to, but it does. And I'm a difficult client. I like people with BPD, and I'm fascinated with the disorder, but I still wouldn't want very many BPD clients at once. That would be a challenge. I feel sorry for my T for having to deal with me sometimes. She has to take a break from me sometimes too.

And I don't only have BPD. I've been diagnosed with dependent and avoidant personality disorders, generalized anxiety disorder, social anxiety, dysthymic disorder, several major depressive episodes - I might be forgetting something else too. I think that most people with BPD could meet the criteria for any number of other things, but a lot of times the other stuff probably stems from the BPD, which can manifest itself in lots of ways.

And I've known plenty of nice people with BPD. But they usually are not very nice to themselves, and sometimes that makes it hard to be nice to others, even if we have good intentions.

Rap

[crackednfragile]

Having BPD, I find myself as almost being "too nice". I tend to get stepped on by the "norms". Actually, I hardly have the interpersonal skills to be manipulative. Maybe BPD's are emotional, erratic, but not nasty. BPD can be a very painful, lonely illness that is very misunderstood. Let us hope as more and more is being uncovered about the illness, not a disorder, the social stigma will lift.

[LMo]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Maybe BPD's are emotional, erratic, but not nasty.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Cracked, but see this is the reverse example of stereotyping. I'm 10000% against people stereotyping BPDs and people with other mental illness, and continue to annoy the members of my other support group with my "every person is different" mantra, telling people not to blame depression for every personality quirk that they don't like. At the same time, though - there ARE BPDs who are nasty, or who can become nasty if they get into the mood. And it's the same thing with the people who you called "norms" (I like that -- makes me think of Norm on Cheers!) - "norms" aren't stereotyped as "nasty", but some sure can be if they're in a bad mood!

I guess, in my ideal world, we would never be able to compose a sentence structure like:

[insert mental illness group here] are [insert adjective here].

(and I'm sorry you get stepped on.. )

[crackednfragile]

Yeah, I guess my crazy "black and white" thinking is coming through. I get your point. It is like looking in the grey area.