[ajmich]

Lifetime battle with major depression; currently down, due to having quit smoking (a known reaction as it turns out). Recently came to light that there is PTSD in the mix.

Multiple family members & close friends committed suicide. Began at age 12 with my oldest brother (22). His wife shortly afterward. My Dad (49) when I was 16. Another brother (21) when I was 19. None had any psych eval so it's only speculation about their mental illnesses; my 2nd brother heard voices & likely had schizophrenia.

Have mostly isolated my whole life so never had a lot of friends, but a few very close ones. All the deeper impact when two of them blew their brains out a couple years apart (they didn't know each other). Never have learned WHY about either of those, not that it matters.

All this has made me wonder why I have been exposed to so many suicides. Anyone I've ever told has been blown away, most haven't a clue how to deal, what to say, etc., so they say nothing. I understand that a bit better now.

Additional losses have been my Mom to Alzheimers and my younger brother to HIV/AIDS. I have two surviving sibs, older sisters, one I live with. She has major depression, and the other has terminal cancer. We support each other as best we can, mostly via daily emails.

My "official" diagnosis is Bipolar II with major depression & GAD. Just wondering if anyone else with PTSD has had loss from suicide. I might be better off posting in a suicide survivor forum but somehow I wound up here so I'm just going with it, and the vibe here is helpful and friendly. Peace... Alex

[optimize990h]

I have good understanding of what you have discussed in regards to suicide. I won't get into details, but I have been one of the people left behind due to that action. This has happened more than once. As well, I have been close to dying myself at least 4 times. Although, people with no diagnosis of mental illness and even one pdoc did not think I could be considered a PTSD survivor.

I don't know if that particular pdoc ignored facts that did not focus on their theory of my diagnosis or whether other opinions were considered over my own interests. Suffice it to say, not all the facts were given equal weight. I guess it is more simple to treat a major depressive episode than consider other diagnoses as well.

I have some idea of where you might be coming from.

[ajmich]

Thanks, optimize... if I'm reading you correctly, you've found that pdoc's in general still do not consider PTSD may be caused by severe family trauma? Seems it's a fairly new connection, from what little I've dug up thus far. The diagnosis seems "stuck" in that it's traditionally applied mainly to combat vets. I've never been in combat but may as well have been. Today has been gut-wrenching, had a minor breakthrough during weekly counseling session. Much unresolved loss/grief over the most recent death, that of my younger brother. Little by little, the healing is happening. Almost feels too little too late but I'm grateful to have finally found a superb counselor. Am hoping to hear others chime in on this topic but not seeing much activity on this branch of the forum. Anyone point me to a more heavily used PTSD forum?

[Open Eyes]

Hi ajmich, I post alot in this forum, but I have never experienced anyone I know commiting suicide. With all the loss you have been through, I don't doubt you are struggling with PTSD. PTSD is not just something the Vets suffer from, all kinds of people struggle with it.

I am glad to know that you are getting help and are finding some relief or breakthroughs with therapy, keep with the therapy, it sounds like you have alot to work through.

I am sorry for all your loss, I can't imagine having that many losses to struggle with.

God Bless you
(((Hugs)))
Open Eyes

[ajmich]

Thanks big time for your kind post, Open Eyes. For your sake I'm relieved to hear that you have not gone through any suicide loss. For the record I am not suicidal myself, other than for those fleeting moments (I'm guessing many of us likely have) when the darkest thoughts come.

I'm a survivor if nothing else. When deeply depressed, hanging on has been tiresome, but I know I'm not at all alone, it's a basic struggle to stay alive.

You bet it is amazing to have a good counselor after decades. With today's train wreck I know for certain the festering wounds must be dealt with. But it is not as if I have kept things bottled up (like many men do)... always felt I've been a "heart on his sleeve" type. Not whimper whiny pity pot, but matter of fact. More like "this is my story, and dammit I'm still here"... if barely!

Been fooling myself and didn't know that. Or have done it so long I forgot I was in hiding. Whew. :::::: Was a good day, but a rough one. And now I will need to be even tougher than ever, as I just got notice I'm being sued for some ancient debt! F**k.

RE other PTSD forums, I googled and found ptsdforum.org, but when I tried to register, the site gave me an error saying I need java enabled (it already is). Tried again, nada. Left there thinking it must not be the right place. So I'll keep looking and still wondering per my last post, if anyone knows of another, possibly more popular PTSD forum?

{{{{hugs}}}} back at ya and thanks again. Alex.

[Open Eyes]

You are welcome. I wasn't able to find a PTSD site that I thought would be helpful to me, however I have not searched in a long time. I don't know if any of the other members here know of one. You may want to ask in the General forum where other members might see your question and have some suggestions.

I will say however that while I have not experienced suicide in my relatives, I did experienced it on a street where I lived. A few houses down from me a fourteen year old took his own life. I did feel not only shocked but I also felt bad that I didn't know this teen was so lonely and lost. I also had a mother of twin girls of lived behind me, a woman being only a year older than me, take her own life. Again, I didn't know she was struggling so much, if only I thought to myself, I had known maybe I could have helped her to not feel so alone.

As I mentioned I also struggle with PTSD, and it really got bad because of the situation I was in where I lost too much and it broke me and I got so bad that I thought that there was no way anyone would understand "why" I was so bad. I began to feel that because of this, I was going to become a burden and everyone around me at the time was really angry at me not being able to "just" pick myself up and take control and be strong like I had so many other times in front of them. So I got so bad that I really wanted to check out of life completely, it was an overwhelming urge and it got very dangerous. I didn't realize that it is what can happen if PTSD is really aggrivated, which is exactly what had been happening to me.

What did help me was that I met someone in PC that knew about this PTSD challenge and that these really strong episodes do happen, but, like all the other awful symptoms, they fade away. He told me that while it is very hard to fight these strong waves of feeling like this, that I could hold on, not listen to it and get past it each time it happens. If it hadn't been for that, I don't really know if I would have made it, I have to say, it sure was strong often overwhelmingly so. I tried to tell my husband and he didn't get that I was serious and sometimes his sentiment was dismissive and even punishing. That made it soooooo dangerous because it made me feel even more of a burden because I could not "just" like he expected me to, to a point where I sat on my bed really bad next to the nightstand that had a loaded gun in it.
That is how much my husband didn't "believe me" because he left that loaded gun within my reach, knowing that I often retreated to our bedroom when I got so bad I could not function. I have to be honest, I almost wanted it there in case it got so bad I just had no fight left in me.

Luckily I had a T that I had been spending time with, the first T that was listening and actually helping instead of the others that were dismissive and misdiagnosing me. I told him about this really difficult challenge and that I honestly didn't know if I was going to make it because no one was hearing me and were being "mean" to me instead. I was able to do this because of that conversation I had with that member here, I knew enough that it was part of the PTSD and that I could fight it, but I needed help, I needed someone else to see the challenge and help me. So this T made it a point to meet with my husband and tell him how serious I was and he had to stop being mean to me for something I could not help and that he had to remove the gun immediately.

It's really hard to understand PTSD, it is such a challenging disorder, and it is very hard when others around you "punish" you because they don't believe how hard it is. I know how lonely it can be and that is why I spend so much time trying to help others not feel so alone, to understand they are actually "not alone" and to not "feed into" the disorder, but to understand it and know that with time you can really gain more control over how it can be crippling and often down right exhausting.

I think for you, yes it is quite a challenge to be able to find a way to look at all these losses and "grieve" and yet be able to separate "your life and your personal value and right to have a life" inspite of these tramatic losses. Human beings tend to easily "identify" themselves to those around them, especially other family members. So with something like this, it is not unusal for someone to wonder if that is their fate as well somehow. It is important to understand that "no" that is not the case, that inspite of losses like this we are each separte from and also designed to thrive "inspite of" being exposed to having losses like this.

I can understand your desire to be able to talk to others that can identify with this kind of challenge, well, that is human nature as well, we are designed to seek strength and purpose from others who know the challenge and find personal strength and will inspite of it.

So, while I don't have the "same" challenge, I have been exposed and even struggled personally and I am no longer in that kind of "troubled state of mind", but I know the challenge first hand. And in that experience I have learned that one can "overcome" the challenge of experiencing that state of mind, that it can be overcome and no, it is not something others don't understand or could never understand, there is help for it, there really is.

I am glad to hear you have found help with this challenge and you are looking forward with "your life" inspite of it. It takes time to overcome it, to see how it has affected you and to just let it out and not think you have to shove it or hide it somehow, because you don't, you "can" address it and mourn it and finally move on.

(((Hugs)))

[ajmich]

Thank you so much for your thoughtful post, Open Eyes... wow, I don't think I've ever heard stuff that so deeply touches where I've been, gone through, and am dealing with today. The huge thing I realized reading your post is that, like you, I'd been terribly down and unhappy, wanting to die, but somehow always managed to tough it out. In my case I had sworn to myself I would NOT become another statistic like ALL of the older males in my family. Not so much that I judged them or thought they were weak or something, but that I had experienced deep unrelenting pain due to loved ones I had looked up to having chosen to end their lives. In the case of my Dad, he even told me he was going to do it, and why, and at 16 I bawled and hugged him and begged him to get help, to stay alive for us kids, for ME. He was too ill, too far gone. Days later, I got drunk with close friends, then very sick and told them what my Dad had said, pleaded for intervention, but no one believed it was that serious, even the older sibs & parents of friends who witnessed my drunken sick rant. It must have sounded insane. They took me home where my Dad answered the door and acted like nothing was weird.

Soon after, Mom was afraid to go into his room, asked me to do it, and there I found his body. He was 49. My entire world imploded, in a wrenching slow motion [silent] horror.

I would not subject my surviving family members or friends or lovers or anyone else close to me to that pain. Often I didn't have any of this in my mind when I was at my darkest, but subconsciously it must have been there as a silent force helping me through the worst of it. Then things would ease up a tiny bit, slowly, either from time passing, or meds helping, or seeing a cool sunset, or who knows, but I would get through that crud again and carry on.

Amazing to me that you found a person who effectively intervened, got your spouse to put the damned gun away (geez) and perhaps verbally slapped him around a bit so he'd hopefully begin to GET IT, what you were dealing with. My high school sweetheart chased after me in spite of my moodiness, won me over and we were together 12 years. But she had similar loss issues, having helplessly watched her Dad having a massive, fatal heart attack when she was only 12 years old. Her Dad had been her one true connection within her family and she was crushed. I much later learned that she and I had been drawn to each other due to similarities in our needs, but that those very needs would not be met because neither of us had the inner resources to mend, heal, whatever. We did our best to prop up one another but it was a very codependent bond. There wasn't the ability to help the other in some very basic ways. Eventually I got counseling and after over a year of that I knew I had to leave and "find myself". It was the hardest thing I've ever done.

Anyway, such is Life, there are umpteen challenges all along the way. When a body does not have the strength to deal with them, then it's time for help. My therapy was touch and go after that, too little too far between, and much time was wasted being miserable while I tried to "find myself". Leaving my beloved had not solved much. I had intended a temporary separation but after a year she wanted to move on, and filed for divorce. It was the right decision but sure was hard. I gradually opened up to being able to be loved by others who knew my "story" and weren't freaked out. I was very lucky to have met certain people for they gave me gifts that I took in, I gave back, there could be some peace. I just never truly dealt with the losses, but told myself I had.

So now it is finally coming to light. I used to think that facing the demons of the past and all that loss would forever change me in some horrid way, or I would die unable to stop sobbing, or something. And I pushed the hurt away, but never had any lasting success healing deep depression, anxieties, and later what I realized with the help of others was a form of PTSD. Here I am, grateful for this forum and the likes of you, and for my caring counselor. It will be okay. There's a lot of work to be done, but I will deal with it and carry on, hopefully with a much lighter load to carry. I need to and want to be strong to be of help to my surviving sisters, one with severe depression and many health issues, the other with stage 4 cancer and not long to live. On it goes, Life continues it's challenges I guess, maybe one day I will stop wondering how much a body is expected to take, and just go with whatever happens, without judgment, without additional weight and pain. I suppose it is all to learn. To grow, to expand, to teach? It's a mystery to me.

Hugs back at you and thanks again for sharing. You're good people, stay that way.

Peace... Alex

[Open Eyes]

I am glad to hear you are finding your way through it all. It sounds like you have a good therapist too. I think you have the right mindset in realizing that you don't have to follow along the path of others. You are a very different person, stronger then they were. And also you have a different history then others, so in that you will be different, we are all different, our own person, always remember that.

People tend to think that at a certain age they should know who they are and what they want to be in life. But the reality is, we learn and develope into ourselves all of our lives. And that is what "you" are slowly realizing yourself if you think about it. I hear people that are depressed because they get it in their mind that they should be all set with a life path and they don't see themselves "there yet'. But honestly there really is no real "there" because life is changing all the time and we are always learning whether we want to or not, that is just how life goes.

Remember that you don't "have to" think that taking time to sort through your past has to be painful all the time. The point is to make sure you talk about it, see the things you may not have known how to sort through, and then sort through them with your therapist until you can set it aside and choose to move forward with "you" and "learning" and "growing again".

It sounds like that is what you are doing now, and you are getting stronger, even though you still have challenges, you are still leaving room to grow and learn, because that is what you have to do, "have you own personal journey and growth all your life".

Open Eyes

[archipelago]

I have just a few things to add. First it's heartbreaking to read about your suffering. That amount of loss is unbearable so PTSD is very possible. Read Judith Herman's book, when you can, about all kinds of trauma. Any exposure to things that overwhelm you can cause PTSD, but especially things like tragic events over which you have no control.

I myself experienced the suicide of my first true love, completely unexpected and I was blamed for it because we had had a disagrement just before. He did it on his birthday, which also was Easter Sunday. Even though I was just 18, I still feel the loss and always take that day off to do something in honor of his memory.

Later in my life I decided to volunteer as a suicide prevention and crisis counselor on a hotline. The training was excellent and profoundly moving. One of the things we learned is that when you have known someone who has committed suicide the likelihood that you yourself have a possibility of feeling that way increases 40 times! That's how powerful it is. We were instructed when assessing for lethality to ask a suicidal person not only about their own previous attempts but also about their experience in knowing anyone else.

We also had lots of training in grief for survivors, who would often call. Grieving and mourning is often blocked with PTSD. Part of recovery from PTSD is being able to enter into the process of the pain of loss, which is unsafe at first because it feels too traumatic or "frozen in time." Grief is painful but healthy. And it tends to follow a pattern of stages that most people share, so one of the best ways to deal with it is in grief support groups so that you are around people who are in similar situations but often at different stages of the process. This is something that individual therapy can't really provide as well as a group can, although individual therapy is certainly helpful regardless.

I have myself tried suicide in the past but never really seriously. It was more impulsively trying to dull the pain. When you are in a lot of pain, this seems like a very understandable reaction. Part of you wants to live without pain so it is like a strange version of self-mercy to put the part of you in pain out of misery.

That is what I learned on the hotline. People who called really didn't want to die. They just wanted the pain to end. When they realized that, they started connecting to things that mattered to them and reemerge attached to meaningful things that got them through. No suicides occurred on my watch, but occasionally I had to call in the police for uncertain cases, usually with someone who was too intoxicated to establish that they were going to remain safe. I hated doing that. I have had it happen to me and hated it, but in the end, I learned something about how the system fails people. There simply isn't enough decent and humane care out there. That is a major reason why I decided to become a psychologist myself. There is a major need and people need the help. Since I know something about it, I feel committed to it in a deep way.

I would encourage you to seek a group for loss or grief. Also one of the things I did is start doing some writing about my experiences. I started with journals but ended up publishing poetry. Transforming the experiences with activities like this helped a lot. And a journal and pen is way cheaper than seeing a psychiatrist.

[ajmich]

Open Eyes and iota, your posts are so helpful, some of the gunk is melting, clearing; experiencing odd but most welcome feelings... maybe just "odd" because the feelings are NEW for me, having never made such connections before with, um, comrades in arms.

Completely agree that there can be a healthy shift away from labeling the healing process as "painful" or "difficult"... amazing you should bring that up because I've often made such comments to others about the way we humans JUDGE experiences. Rather just let them be, "stuff happens" and it's only out of habit, social conditioning, human nature maybe, to always label things... good, bad, easy, hard, painless, devastating...

Like so many others, I've "thought" I wanted to end my life. Though never made a serious attempt, I went through the motions several times. So true that I did not want to die -- just an end to the pain. I wonder if that feeling of pain can be "re-thought" or "re-imagined" into a benign, more "useful" form. I am not well-read or educated about, say, ancient belief systems... but have always been drawn to those that seem able to approach Life from a calm, peaceful, passive perspective. The first impression that I can recall offhand was the (1972-1975) TV show, "Kung Fu" with David Carradine as "Caine/ Grasshopper"... and later, the Force in the early Star Wars films. I am so much older now but still hear Yoda wisdom in my noggin, haha. Well, why not... so much of it is very helpful and wise, and has surely helped change many lives.

Sometimes have wondered what it might entail to work a suicide hotline. I'd shrug those thoughts away because I never felt I was strong enough, healed enough, to be able to help anyone. Always an uneasiness, low-level anxiety, about the past... and was it inevitable that I would succumb to the darkness like the others had? Too often seemed exactly so. Months would creep by while I did nothing but exist, doing little more than sleeping. Better to sleep if I could, I rationalized, than give in to the madness and end it all.

Admit I have been prejudiced about group therapy having had one negative experience, completely unrelated to mental health, but sadly in my impressionable/ whacked out state, left me with a sour attitude about the Group Experience. I am willing to let that crap go and give it a chance, but for now am just pleased that my counselor is excellent and the one on one sessions (weekly) are beginning to open me up at long last. I will talk to her about group as I think she's mentioned that she sometimes oversees group sessions. Right now though, spewing the pent up grief is brand new and I dunno how it might feel to do that, if I even could, within a group of people. For now at least, it all seems very private... yet here I am seeking the comments and advice and companionship of like-minded souls.

Iota, I can't help but note that you lost, so very young, your loved one on an Easter Sunday... my Mom passed on that day a few years ago after a lengthy decline into Alzheimer's. She was in Florida, having been made a Ward of the Court due to the family's inability to care for her, everyone living far apart, nursing their own deep wounds. I had been with her for several years when she slowly became ill, and eventually turned against me in her paranoia. So I left Florida, returned to my native Michigan, and basically "watched" via emails and a few phone calls while Mom slid ever further into that disease. Talk about a helpless, guilt-ridden mess! So her Guardian sent EMAIL to us (three surviving members), telling us Mom had died that Easter. That's a loss, unrelated to suicide, that I definitely must work on. To be "neutral" and not judgmental: what an incredibly challenging disease. I can only pray that no one else I know goes that route. And God or whatever Higher Power please help all those having to deal with it.

Thank you both for your heartfelt support! And I hope to hear from others, especially those who have suicide loss in their histories. This bearing of the soul online is new to me and so far very good, very helpful. I'm glad we're all here. Alex.

[Open Eyes]

I liked your input iota it's always comforting to know someone else cares and wants to find a way to be there to help others who understands the challenge first hand. What has disturbed me deeply is how people "dismiss" the very real challenge of PTSD.

I faced alot of sudden loss myself and it got so I just couldn't deal with the pain of it all anymore. I was also very angry and I was just so overwhelmed, I didn't know anything about Post Tramatic Stress either. You are right about the system because I got so bad I just could not function. Yes, my thoughts of ending my life was really about wanting to end the pain and the anger that was totally wiping me out. So I relyed on the system and went to a psychward where I didn't get the help/grief counceling I needed, but instead was further tramatized.

When I look back on how I was failed and how it made me worse, I get so upset. I don't just get upset for myself though, I get upset for anyone who struggles like that and faces others who dismiss them and don't even comfort them or validate them. It could have been so much better for me had a professional, knowing the significance of grief counceling and rest and validation is, could have sat with my family and explained the dangers that I could develope PTSD. Because that didn't happen, my family was mean to me and constantly kept telling me that I better get my "act together" or I would lose everything. Wow, were they mean to me, it was awful.

There needs to be alot more awareness in society about this challenge, therapists who are specially trained to work with patients who struggle with PTSD or the aftermath of something tramatic, and it is soooo important to also include family members in understanding it so they don't "mistreat" the patient which only makes it worse. And when I say treatment providers that "specialize" in PTSD, that is so important because with all the symptoms it presents someone can end up having several misdiagnoses which can lead them to being even more misunderstood, as well as feeling more confused and overwhelmed themselves.

ajmich, as far as getting exposure to others who can "understand", I agree with iota, where it is important to have others who can validate the challenge with processing pain and can be understanding, comforting and validating. Because we are designed to "connect" with each other, connecting with others who are "healing" and gaining is very important to how we slowly see we are not alone and that there is really a path to healing "with others who can support us", verses thinking we are a failure because we are struggling.

I am facing my mother's decline with Alzeheimers and it "is" painful for me to see her fading away. My father has aged so much this past year alone and seeing him trying to come to terms with it is heartrenching for me. I know both of them as strong and outgoing people so it is hard to explain to others how hard it is for me to process this challenge based on the individual uniqueness of these two people. I can hear from others, "yeah, it is a challenge and alot of people struggle with it", but sometimes that can almost be a tad dismissive in a way. It is almost like "its a part of life so just deal with it", and I am really struggling. I think it is harder because I also am battling PTSD too, and I have to admitt that I worry about how I will be able to "process the pain" that I am not only feeling now, but will be challenged with for this entire process as I watch them continue to decline and struggle. Right now I am trying really hard to just take it one day at a time and "not project". Sigh....some days are a real challenge because I am trying to find ways of talking to them to help them accept their challenges with suddenly being so old that they have to give up things they didn't realize "they" were going to have to give up. This year alone my father had to face that he can't drive anymore, and now he has to give up his business too. He is still "really smart" and has been doing it, but has not been able to complete a test in the time limit given to him. His brain can't process that fast anymore. Sigh...society doesn't care about that, either you do something the way it is wanted or you don't fit in anymore. It is sad because he gets everything right, he just can't do the entire test fast enough so he gets failed.

[ajmich]

Open eyes, thanks again for a heartfelt post. I am weary tonight, have been getting stressed (anxiety) over a financial matter, and am reminded how much more difficult Life BS can be when you're not firing on all cylinders. But I want to comment on a couple things.

Its so true that people often seem (or ARE) dismissive about this stuff... there are those who act as if they want to understand but then they cannot, and don't know how to respond. Maybe that (unconsciously?) triggers something defensive in them, so instead of offering support, they project a disinterested or even negative/ critical attitude towards you.

In the case of combat vets, for example, isn't it known that, once back home, these souls are subjected to people who have no clue what it means to be in battle, in the depths of war? Having lives ended or permanently damaged all around them? Their own life at risk all the time? That to me is the extreme (and original) "source" of PTSD. So they are back in society and if they can express their troubles at all, perhaps can only talk to their comrades in arms when it comes to their soul breaking experiences.

I have never been in combat, so I am only imagining what this might be like. NO disrespect or misrepresentation of vets intended, ever! So, then segue to our own "battle ridden at home" form of this disease and the average person's inability to relate. They don't GET IT and they cannot, unless they truly WANT to and take the steps to learn about the illness so they can then support and communicate effectively, without harm. Make any sense?

IMHO, most people can only base their reaction or empathy upon what they themselves have experienced. We want them to understand, to be supportive, even to make an effort to LEARN about the disease so they know better how to deal with it. NONE of this excuses anyone's blatant verbal or physical abuse. Those who would lash out that way towards a "loved one" has their own very serious issues to attend to. I'd say for one's own sake, keep your distance as best you can from such people. If one is a spouse or otherwise close to you, I know that can be difficult or even impossible. Maybe that's why you're here, in part. Only the individual can decide how to take charge of such a situation if it is threatening their very survival, their healing, their happiness. Most often we feel helpless because the disease drains any coping energies so effectively.

Having mental illness and dealing with Alzheimer's is trying to say the least. I went through it and my Mom is long gone now but the clouds and guilt and anxieties remain, like an echo in a storm, drowned out by thunder. For what it's worth, a knowing doctor or counselor would likely advise you to have nothing to do with an Alzheimer Disease patients care... this is what my sister was told in no uncertain terms, RE her own severe depression, PTSD, whatever... that the stress of dealing with our Mom's AD was absolutely beyond her ability. Even the most healthy well adjusted person is deeply challenged by caring for a loved one with AD. How can we possibly do it without hurting ourselves? That is of course a deeply personal matter and should be discussed with a pdoc or counselor. I just know that my experience with this taught me about my limits. And I cannot allow such limits to fill me with remorse or guilt or anything else negative. We do what we can, when we can. NO ONE would expect themselves to care for an AD patient if they were severely handicapped or had open wounds that will not heal! The fact that mental illness is invisible makes it no less debilitating. So I won't kid myself. Please examine this in your own situation to see if anything fits. All I know is I am hearing you, and you must not forget your own needs while tending to the needs of anyone else -- yes, including a parent.

Maybe I shouldn't write when I'm tired and I hope this makes some sense. We gotta be aware of our own disease and how that might be worsened by getting in over our heads with someone else's disease. No loved one would want you to harm yourself (or your brain), or make your condition worse, by you trying to care for them, would they? Peace.... Alex.

[Open Eyes]

Oh, you make sense, actually I needed to hear it because I have not been the caregiver with my parents, my sister has. She is older than me and has always been the one to "take over and control" and have things go "her way". The problem is that she can get "dramatic" and she can also see things "her way" which are not always the reality. When I experienced PTS because of suddenly having to deal with so much loss all of a sudden, I got so I just couldn't function and ended up in a psychward. I went in begging for rest and grief counceling and instead I was just further tramatized. My sister came to visit me, would not listen to me about how I was not getting the treatment I needed, she just yelled at me to "get my act together" and told me I would lose everything including my marriage if I didn't. She said everyone was angry at me. Well, that is not how you treat someone experiencing PTS and I was kept in that psychward for 9 days and it was horrible. Plus my sister's attitude towards me also resulted in the staff at the psychward to not take me seriously so even though I was expressing all the red flags, can be read in my records, they overlooked everything and were actually cold towards me.

Even when I finally got out, my family was so mean to me and made me feel guilty for struggling with the pain and anger. So I went further into depression, and guilt because I could not seem to "just" somehow. I ended up with full blown PTSD and once I finally got the right therapist to explain it to me, I got so I could not even hear my sister's voice I felt so betrayed because I was punished for something I could not help.

For two years I could not talk to my sister at all and I could not go near the situation "she" was controlling with my parents. Here and there were messages of "you are going to regret" because I could not go to Holiday functions at my sisters house, something else she always had to have "her" way. Every holiday was sheer pain for me because everyone was so "angry" with me and began to shun me. I basically ended up in bed in so much pain it felt like my brain was being literally squeezed.

I spent alot of time at PC trying very hard to figure out how to find "me" again tbh.
I kept learning about PTSD and I focused on mostly helping others, tapping onto that old me that used to be so strong and outgoing. It got to be so it was the only place I could do that too. My IRL situation was very strained and often very cold. For a while many of my posts here were somewhat racing, almost like I was running and searching inside my mind to get a "hold of me" somehow. At PC, at least there were others that knew the challenge of PTSD, IRL the only one I had was a T I had eventually found that began to help me.

For a while I was so bad I had to take Klonopin so I could manage the bad situation I had IRL and be able to function. I have my own small business to run along with a farm with crippled animals to tend to as well and a lawsuit and a mountain of debt to try to keep up with because of all the veterinarian bills incurred to address all the injuries I was addressing in eight horses/ponies resulting from my neighbor's dog.

It has only been the past few months that I have been able to talk to my sister again. At first I pretended she was someone on PC which helped me distance her from how she "hurt me" so I could learn what was going on with my parents. My parents are starting to go down hill and really showing their age. I have been trying my best to be there for them and sort my way through all the things my sister says about what the doctors say and how she is trying to manage it all.

It is really nice to be told that it is Ok, and important that I take care of myself and it is OK that I try to be a part of and yet remember that I do have PTSD and to make sure I don't take on more than I can handle. I have to admit that there is a part of me that wants to go and visit my parents more, yet there is a part of me that is also being "avoidant" so it is much like I am trying to punch a hole in the PTSD so I can get past it and be around them more.

Honestly, it is a though I am just getting so I am getting a hold of myself again, but still challenged with the PTSD and I am facing a situation with my parents that is very emotionally challenging and it does aggrivate the PTSD. There are many times that I really wish I had more time to get myself together more without having to deal or wrap my mind around this very trying and sad situation that is only going to get worse. So I have to admit that I get frustrated and tend to feel guilty because I can't be involved in the capacity that I feel I should be.

It is very hard not having others understand how challenging it really is, except for my T and others at PC who know how challenging PTSD can get and how important it is to go easy.

I do call and talk to my parents more and more. My mother can still have a conversation with me and sometimes she is good and sometimes she is not so good.
It was really hard to talk to my sister yesterday because she took my father to the place where he took is test so he could keep selling securities and investments and dealing with the clients he has had for many years now. He was getting answers right but he just could not finish it in the time allowed and he tried twice and just couldn't finish, so he could not pass it. And my sister said he cried and said he doesn't know what to tell his clients and he felt like he was taken to a public hanging. Well, my father doesn't cry, so it is so hard to see him this way. Well, old people are just "slower" and it isn't that he isn't smart, he is just too slow and to be honest, he should have been given more time considering his age. That was his reason for living and it is mean to take it away because he isn't fast enough. I have been amazed at how well he adapted to all this fast paced new technology the way he managed to do inspite of his age.

I am glad it was my sister that took him to this so called public hanging because I would not have been able to push back my own emotions and encourage him the way she managed to do. She did get through it and managed to keep strong until she got him home, but we did cry together as she talked about it to me on the phone. She is going to try to talk to a manager to see if there is any other venue that he could be tested that can give him more time. However, she admits that it is probably not there. These days you have to do things the way you are expected and the system can be very "cold".

So, anyway, thanks for reminding me, it is "OK' to step back and consider what I am capable of dealing with. I tend to struggle with guilt because of how this PTSD tends to make it so much harder. As you know, it can get lonely when around others who really don't understand how challenging it is. It is such a life saver to be able to interact with people who do understand it and can be so comforting and supportive.

I think you should recognize that though you are challenged, you are also capable of helping others find strength and reason as well. It is important that you realize that when you do help others by being comforting and understanding, even using your intellect more, it also will help you too. What strength we give to others, we may not realize it, but we are also giving it to ourselves. By actually "practicing" utilizing more productive thought patterns it helps the PTSD brain to make gains in getting past the PTSD part and get back to being able to intellectualizing again, inspite of it. That is how a group situation can be very helpful because it encourages you to step outside your own issues and instead use your mind to help others. Productive thinking is always healing.

Open Eyes

[ajmich]

Amen and big hugs to you, Open Eyes! Being new at this forum thing, I'm feeling my way around but immediately felt it is okay to let it loose, extend a hand, give back something cuz you're getting something. I would like to believe that my "part" in my Mom's illness didn't happen for nothing. That I can identify with you and others who absolutely must take a personal inventory to see just what their disease will allow them to do. KNOW YOUR LIMITS. And then, Let It Be. We are of no use to anyone if we die of this. If we allow ourselves to feel so guilty, ashamed, anything negative, as a result of owning up to the fact that "I cannot do this, I am ill too"... then we just feed our disease exactly what it wants... more pain, more anguish. STOP the cycle and be as good to yourself as you want to be to another. Take your own illness as seriously as it deserves to be taken. Step away from what simply cannot be done, and turn a deaf ear to those who would berate you for it.