[MotownJohnny]

(on edit, that should be CLOSEST, LOL)

... Or are openly hostile or dismissive, what do you do?

In my particular situation, my family was in denial for so many years about my father's serious MH issues and the effects on the family. I have three much older sisters, he was bad but not as bad when they were in the house. But I was pretty young when they left, barely out of diapers for the first, in about. 3rd or. 4th grade when the last went away to college. They and I do not see eye to eye on just how bad my father was. They don't deny problems existed, but they accuse me of exaggerating, " oh, he would never do that". Well, he did. Also, because they're female, I don't think he perceived them as a threat or challenger somehow. With me, he definitely made it up in his mind that I was, first, the bastard child of another man, proof in his eyes of my mother's serial infidelity which existed only in his eyes. Then, when I became a young man, he was going around telling people he knew that my mother and I had an incestuous relationship, also completely untrue. So, I became a hated rival in his eyes. And he took every opportunity to beat me down, for the most part I was too scared to do anything but take it, at most I made little passive-aggressive comments under my breath.

My family dynamics are still weird. They view me as the unsuccessful black sheep who caused trouble back then and who never amounted to much in life. I feel like I did the best i could under horrible curcumstances. And I sacrificed my own life and happiness to protect my mother from him. And I get no credit for that. And, no one in my family can ever be direct, it's very two faced, one thing to your face, then another behind your back. And very judgemental.

The other dynamic set years ago, keeping up appearances - no matter what sick things were going on, it had to look "perfect" to outsiders, happy loving family. But the only outsiders allowed in were his circle, we were just required to perform on command, it was disgusting. Once the outsiders left, it was back to the same living Hell.

So, when I had my crisis last year, tongues really got to wagging. I did my best to hide it, but obviously people knew something was up. The only saving grace was that the day hospital program was a few miles from work and roughly the same hours, so they thought I was working like always. My one sister told the other I was mentally ill, I was weird, and I must be on drugs, that sort of thing. In the end, I guess they decided I was having a "mid-life crisis".

I got only negative comments, no support of any kind. They thought it was "really weird" that I joined a gym, because "we don't do that kind of thing". True, what "we do" is hide way from the world behind 4 walls. The warden is dead, but the prisoners never realized it meant they were free to go. So, any change I made they found very threatening - lost weight, new clothes, grew a very short, neatly trimmed beard, used a little "get the gray out" men's haircoloring, started cycling. Instead of a "way to go" I got scolded, or worse, angry confrontation. Because in their eyes, I'm still a 15 year old boy who should do what he is told and behave. They have never respected me as a grown man, don't even view me that way, so that all feeds into the negative self-image.

I've shared certain details, not all, with my boss, coworker, certain people at the gym I joined. And they have all been incredibly supportive. Then I go home, and get the disapproving stares or comments whenever I see or talk to my family. I am at the point I wish they would just go away and I would never see them again, but because my mother lives with me now, they are in my life until she dies one day, at least.

And, you know, it's incredibly sad, it's the same dynamic, just not as extreme, as with my father - someone who should nurture, protect, and support you instead abuses you and hurts you. And that hurts.

[tinyrabbit]

I'm sorry you were abused. That shouldn't have happened.

The problem with families is they exist in a fixed state - google "family systems homeostasis" for more on this - and they resist when anyone tries to change. You have a fixed role and they won't let you move out of that. I'm sorry they aren't supporting you. I think you need to look elsewhere for support.

I have the same feelings about my family and wish they would die for the most part. I totally understand how hard this is and I'm sorry.

[A Red Panda]

I will never, ever, share the fact that I've finally gone to get diagnosed and to therapy with my family. Ever. I will also never tell anyone who could even potentially tell them. It would be absolute hell - my family would hold it over me and it would be thrown into my face at every possible opportunity, for you see, none of them are diagnosed with anything so I'm the crazy one. Of course... if they were to ever go to a psychiatrist and be honest about themselves... there would definitely be a lot of issues and I'm sure they would be diagnosed with something too.

I'm always really scared when I disclose things to friends. For the most part, they're supportive. But not others.

When someone shows me that they aren't accepting... I don't really even need support, I just need some acceptance and understanding.... then I'm basically gone. Mentally and emotionally I have checked out of that relationship. I can maintain appearances and can maintain shallow friendships... but those people get nothing at all that they could possibly hold against me.

Trust issues much? Oh yes. I have trust issues.

And good for you for joining a gym! I've got too much fear around it and being judged. My family lives in an entirely different province and I am STILL worried!

[MotownJohnny]

Ok, a good example of this - I hit a " personal best" this morning, I ran 5K in about 27 minutes. A year ago, I couldn't walk 5K without being winded and exhausted. Then, this was part of my fitness class, we did a mixed cardio/weight circuit for another 30 minutes, and I did it all. All with a bad cold.

I'm so proud of myself. If I told my sister that, she would have some nasty comment and roll her eyes. Which is sad.

[MotownJohnny]

ARP, I was petrified when I joined the gym. Got out of the day program on a Friday, went back to work officially on Monday and went and signed up that evening. And, I thought it would be all really fit young buffed guys, and I would be the oldest, fattest guy there and slink away after a few sessions in shame.

Wrong. Exact opposite - people of every age, every size, guys who easily had 150-200 lbs on my then 220. Everyone is incredibly friendly and supportive, not just staff, but also other members.

With me, escaping from the emotional prison meant doing a lot of things I had never done, and doing it fearlessly.

If you think joining a gym would benefit, don't be afraid. I'm sure there are some that cater to the "hardbody" crowd, but I suspect most have a diverse clientele like mine does.

[Open Eyes]

(((MowtownJohnny))),

First of all let me extended a big cyber (((Hug))) to you, because you really do need that and also deserve it.

Now, what you are describing is something that happens "a lot" in families. What I am hearing from you since I began listening to you, is that you were the youngest child and you were also "physically" challenged. You also had an "abusive" father that concentrated his abuse "mostly on you".

What they have been learning is that "abusers" tend to pick "one family member" to abuse and they treat the other family members differently. They are trying to understand "how one child is selected by an abuser". And the scenario you are describing with how your family "invalidates" you also happens a lot with these victims that the abuser in the family chooses to abuse too.

Here is what "I" believe is happening. If you really look at nature and other animals (remember we are all animals), you will observe that when an animal has offspring, often the smallest or weakest of the offspring is pushed out of the nest or struggles to get nourishment amongst the other "larger" offspring. Nature is never sympathetic to the living creatures that "need extra help" and "may be born a little smaller or be one too many in a group of offspring". Nature and evolution is driven to produce in all species variations that assure the survival of that species.

So, within "human nature" there is a very deep program that also follows this "natural selection process". And if we really "pay attention" one of the things that is "consistent" in human nature is some form of "competition" and we have "always" fed into this ongoing deep seeded programming. Time and time again this deep program has superseded our "intellect" and we have developed a word for it too, "dysfunction".

Our "intellect" cries for "peace" and yet the deep natural programming consistently stirs the pot into "WARS" and many other areas where "a certain group" gains control. And we often "question" why certain individuals gain "power" and commit these "horrible acts on their society's "innocent". Yet, here again, we consistently experience how the "natural process consistently supersedes our intellect".

Now returning to "you" and your family. Your father was a "disturbed man" and he had "no education" to help him to at least gain on "fending off this deep seeded programming" so that he could run his family in a "healthier" way so that "you" had a better chance of growing up and not experiencing the challenges you are experiencing right now. This is something that goes on a lot more then you think. And the reason that fact is "true" is because of the ever growing population that is either "delinquent, or dependent and is now burdening not only our country, but other countries as well.

The "cold hard fact" MTJ, is that we were originally designed to "discard" others that could not be strong enough to "fend for themselves" just as "all living creatures do".
If we take away our modern medicine, the infection you experienced as a child could very well have ended your life. Most "victims" tend to have some kind of "weakness" about them and many are the youngest most vulnerable in the family too. However, our intellect has begun to see how there "can be" brilliance in some of these "weaker offspring" too.

Within a family unit, often what evolves is a "role call" of some kind. Often the oldest child tends to have a certain "superior" role too. Each child within a family develops their "own sense of that family unit" and your family is no exception. It is not unusual for the "child that suffers abuse" to be dismissed and invalidated by the rest of the family unit either. This is something that is constantly brought out with almost every "victim of domestic family abuse" as they discuss their family environment. This is why many therapists recommend their patient remove themselves from their "toxic family" and have as "little contact" as possible.

In my opinion, your father also grew up in dysfunction and he also probably had a poor relationship with his father too. When you combine that along with this deep seeded natural selection process, the parent, in this case your father, becomes very dysfunctional as a parent and will often behave like your father did with you. Because we are no longer back in the environment we were originally designed to be in by "nature" we no longer need this deep seeded natural selection we had back then, however, we still carry it and it has morphed into the ongoing dysfunction we see all around us "in todays mankind".

All these "negative" messages that you struggle with, do not mean you are "unworthy or are incapable". However, because of how you grew up and were treated, you do have a "troubled perception" of your worth. Unfortunately, your family also has this misperception of you as well. And Johnny, this is something that is "consistently taking place with not just you, but "many". I have the same scenario myself as I was the youngest and though I was not abused by my "father/parents" I was abused by the "child that himself suffered abuse from my father and I was the weakest child merely by my birth order and I suffered the brunt of a lot of "dysfunction".

Like you, my family also was "dismissive", so much so that I got so bad that I began to experience some "very bad thoughts". Also, like you, when I did reach out for help, I was also misunderstood and misdiagnosed and that too made me struggle even more. Believe me, I HEAR YOU, I know it all TOO WELL.

MowtownJohnny, what you need to slowly understand is that how you feel, how you struggle and how you have been treated is "NOT YOUR FAULT OR BECAUSE YOU ARE AN UNWORTHY HUMAN BEING IN ANY WAY". The bottom line is IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOUR FAMILY THINKS, the reality is that in spite of your past YOU DID SURVIVE AND YES YOU DO HAVE QUALITIES ABOUT YOU THAT ARE "STRONG AND VERY WORTHY". What keeps you in this psychological battle the most is that while you "are' practicing self care and you "are" thriving, you are still dealing with others that continue to treat you like that child that was unfairly picked to somehow be cast out, yet managed to survive and thrive anyway. None of your family has the capacity to understand this either, not unless they actually walked in your shoes.

What will help you the "most" is slowly learning how to see this picture so you can finally let go of the constant circle of emotions that are a result of your history. It is not about your effort to gain something from your family members that they don't know how to "ever" give to you. That has "nothing" to do with your actual worth as a person that even "you keep self punishing for". However, the one thing you "do" have and always had, is the intelligent brain that "can" gain the knowledge you need to actually help you "rise above" all the "ignorance" that your own family has bestowed upon you so unfairly so you are no longer in this "dysfunctional psychological trap" you are experiencing.

So far Mowtown, what you feel as "whining and complaining and being "Verbose", is what you "need to do" so that you get this kind of information to "give the relief and comfort you have always "needed". What you are doing is actually also "very human too" because this kind of "Verbose" behavior is being expressed all over our planet right now in both healthy and "unhealthy" ways.

So give this some thought and begin to take charge of these "negative" reactions you experience by finally recognizing how much you are not alone and you really need to allow yourself to finally "rise above" it. You are no longer that "abused child" you have survived and grown a lot. You need to put these intrusive feelings and questions to rest now with resolve and begin to walk away on a more "conscious" level, even when your family members continue with "their dysfunctional behaviors".

((((Big Supportive Hugs)))
OE

[MotownJohnny]

OE, I really appreciate all of the time and thought that goes in to your responses, not only to me, but to everyone here. Your caring, gentle nature comes through from your words.

You have a great ability to say, at times almost verbatim, what my T says to me a lot when we discuss these topics. Like the fact that my siblings, even my mother, "just don't get it" that none of us needs to continue to live this way, he is long dead, almost 15 years. Yet he dynamic he set in place stays. But they can't even recognize the problems in themselves, or are in deep denial. Each is wounded in a way, but they make no effort to change. I change and it threatens them.

Your last paragraph is the answer to this, stop hating myself, live how I want to, fill my life with joy instead of pain. I know it's the answer. It is just a hard thing to do. Especially when it almost is a question of breaking ties to the only people I have really ever had in my life. But believe me, I've heard this before from T's, I still have to learn to connect the dots from A to B.

[Open Eyes]

I understand "exactly" what you are saying, I have struggled with this dilemma myself too. I have met some other members that are actually some "very nice people, intelligent too" and I hear the same from them as well. It seems as if each of them are more "aware" and yet they all deal with "family" that continues along with their dysfunctional behavior and often treat them as if they "the victim" is at fault.

Unfortunately, people/human beings develop a way to "practice denial" and PTSD sufferers get to a point where they can no longer "just" and really struggle and wish "they could just again". But an injury is an injury and "all" injuries get worse unless time is finally taken to "heal" be it body or mind.

You have been going over "your own injuries" that you had collected and didn't get the right "help and comfort" for in your childhood. It is finally "time" for you to talk about these "hurts" and "yes" you will relive them in ways you never knew someone could. But "slowly" you will mourn them with the right support and validation that will finally "help you heal".

When you come across a situation or interaction with others who remind you of your hurt, you will feel the hurt. However, as you "slowly" learn the meaning "behind" how you are affected and how to "better respond", something that our "parents" are supposed to help us with and didn't, you will make "gains". This "journey" is a challenging one and each person will "vary" depending on how much "hurt" is there.
We all feel this challenge in often "confusing ways", so it is very important to "understand it" and "not self punish or feed into it".

YOU ARE NOT REALLY ALONE WITH THIS EITHER.

(((Hugs)))
OE

[JaneC]

Johny it is like I amreading what is actually going on in my mind in your posts. I was the one my mother choose to pick on, choose to alienate and take a lot of her issues out on. The rest of my siblings learnt from her behaviiur towads me and followed suit. I was constantly ridiculed, and sadley his happens even now when he family all gets together.
Not so long ago in a discussion mum was sharing what she thought all of us kids would turn out to be in life, she talked about my 3 siblings and then changed the subject, so I asked hey what about me....what did you think about me. Her response? "I never really thought about you" and then my brothrs and sister just hooted with laughter. I was 38, a mother, an optician..........and still not good enough.

I am tying to distance myself from my family because their views and ways of beingmay never change.....but I no longr need to suffer the pain they cause. It is hard, I am conflicted, but I will try to make it work on my terms. They know no better.

Sorry for typos.....on my tablet lol

Johnny I hope you do what you deserve and can put yiurself first.....it is not selfish, it is just being kind to yourself! And, awesome stuff in the gym.

[MotownJohnny]

JaneC, you sound awesome, too. I'm sorry your siblings ridicule you. I can't say they do that to me, it's more like "oh, poor John, he can't manage his life, what a loser, no ambition".

My typos are legendary, especially when I post from my iPhone.

[JaneC]

The ridicule hurts for sure...... I also get the.....oh you are still crazy? and why are you seeing a shrink.....just get over it already! Sheesh.

Sometimes, like right this second, I can actually laugh at their BS.........

[A Red Panda]

I can sometimes laugh at my family's reactions and stuff too. It helps take their power away.

[MotownJohnny]

The thing about it is I am the sane one in the family, because at least I admit my problems and try to deal with them.

I sure that is true for all of us here.

((((Johnny)))) What they said

I hope you will be able to continue to focus on your growth.

Best wishes on your continued successful journey forward. You have a lot of people here that can relate, care and want the best for you.

[MotownJohnny]

Thanks, RP. We're all in the same boat, might as well be together on this journey.