Maybe I'm both.

Maybe I have PTSD and am bipolar? It could happen - and frankly, who could really tell, it's all functionally about the same.

The reason I say that is ... I have been going through the entire bipolar diagnosis saga with the new T, and it plays on my mind just as it did back then. The difference then, I was coming from a position of "they say I am, but X, Y, and Z don't fit bipolar". Now I am at another place, PTSD Land, and I look back and think well, X, Y, and Z might fit bipolar OR PTSD, or both.

And mostly, because I need to know what I am. Am I a man, am I a boy? Am I sane, am I insane? Am I a devil or an angel or neither? Good or bad?

I had this really interesting, multi-part conversation with my mom. I told her that I had to know what she, and the rest of the family, thought about me, and whether being "mentally ill" changes that in their eyes, if it makes me a bad person, if it makes them want me out. Her response was no, of course not, but that is only her response. If the rest knew ???????? I wanna know if the diagnosis matters to them, whether or not they view one thing as better or worse than another?

Two years ago today, I went back to work after my 3 weeks at the hospital. I feel not much more settled, or comfortable, than I did two years ago.

It still hurts like Hell that I sought out relief for my issues, and was treated like a criminal for it. Maybe that is melodramatic, but that is exactly how it feels. And worse, my father got away with it for years. Metaphorically, he committed serious felonies, and got off essentially scott free. I commit a civil infraction traffic offense, and I am sentenced to hard labor, years of parole, and am stripped of rights and dignity (metaphorically speaking, not literally, it just feels like that).

It feels like "punish the victim", like one of the hardline Muslim countries where a woman is raped, then they stone her to death because she was obviously a harlot who was aksing for it. I never asked for what I got, and I certainly did NOT deserve it.

Let the stones fly, though, how much more can they take away from me? Not much.

Who am I? What am I? I can't stand the not knowing any more.

I had a horrible experience this morning - about the closest thing to a true "back in the moment" flashback I ever had. Because it's October 1st - the anniversary of the day I went back to work 2 years ago. Said something about it being an anniversary of sorts to someone this morning, and that got me going back in my mind to the events of 2 years ago. Before I hardly had time to think, the old, familiar feeling of panic and terror began to well up, and I had pretty close to a full-blown panic attack. In a public place yet. It wasn't pretty.

IT was weird because it seemed so fresh and vivid in my mind, like what I had for lunch that day, etc. The whole day is SO vivid, from the morning until night. And it really was terrifying, because I was so afraid I was going to get caught and "outed" over what really happened.

(((Mowtown))),

You need to be "careful" about expecting family members to give you the right "supportive" feedback. You need to understand that "all" your family was within that dysfunctional environment. Your mother and your sisters were all "codependents and enablers" Mowtown. You had to step up and be the "adult" at times when you deserved to have that be there for "you". You talk about your mother being your best friend, but you need to keep in mind that you did have to try to protect "her" too and at the time you needed that "yourself".

You need to understand the "healing" stages of PTSD too Mowtown. It takes time to gain on not only managing it better, but gaining on the "balance" too. None of your family members can identify with what PTSD means either Mowtown. From what you have discribed of the comments your family members have made, it is clear to me that they are all exhibiting how "they" have been affected and only willing to see it from their own viewpoint verses really understanding the magnitude of the overall dysfunction. Each child growing up in the kind of dysfunction you have discussed is only going to see things from their own vantage point and that is basically how children "do" see things too. If you have an older sister that your father was "nicer" to and she somehow was able to manage "her" life better than you, she isn't going to see it from your own challenges with your father.

You are also asking your mother, a 90 year old, questions that she really doesn't have the "true" ability to answer for you the way you "need and deserve" either. When you do that you are actually asking a woman who herself was a victim and really never grew up to be as knowledgeable as "you" need a nurturer/mentor to be for you.

PTSD and how you have struggled with your own history Mowtown, really takes "time" to work through. You were very "challenged" in a very "dysfunctional" home Mowtown, and you have "hurts" that you need to work through and these hurts go way back too, "healing" doesn't take place in the time frame you have discussed here Mowtown.

You are not in any way "stupid" either Mowtown, in fact you have survived a lot and you did that because you were "smart and strong" even though you struggle with feeling like you are somehow a failure right now. What you have been "engaging" in your healing is that "intelligent survivor" in yourself Mowtown. And let me say to you, that person that I have seen in you is really a very "smart and intelligent kind hearted person". It takes time for "that smart survivor part" to work through all the hurt parts and dysfunction that has challenged you in your past. Healing is not just about "revisiting" Mowtown, it is about revisiting and finally helping these "hurt" areas to finally grow past whatever is there that was left confused and hurt in you. And you "have been" doing very "positive" things for yourself Mowtown, you have not only been "gaining" in your psychological understanding of how you were hurt that was not ever your fault, but you have also been "actively" interacting in ways that promote your personal and physical growth too.
The other place I have seen you "gain and grow" in is how you are so supportive with others too. That is not the kind of "growth and maturity" that your family members have, and may never aspire to. So for you to look to them for support, is really not going to prove "fruitful" for you. That is hard, I have a hard time with that myself too Mowtown. However, each person will reflect on the things they did not have support with growing up, so it is really "normal" and not "just" experienced when someone has PTSD. And tbh, a lot of adults your age are getting divorces or are divorced and in new realtionships or even in their second marriages too. There are also a growing number of individuals that are just starting families at your age too because they did not marry until their late 30's or even early 40's. I meet many different families in what I do for a business, so I do see a lot.

When someone is challenged with PTSD, and has a challenged history as you have expressed, it is going to take "time" to get to a point where the PTSD lows are under more control. It's a lot like your discovering that even though you had been afraid to swim, you learned how to swim anyway and you are now able to "enjoy" it.

What you had always needed was to learn how to just do the things in "your life" that you wanted to do regardless of the criticisms or judgements of others. If you love bike riding, swimming, driving in your new car, and having a PT, just do it and enjoy doing these things. That is what you would tell your own son if you were a father right? Ok, then make sure you do that for yourself too. If you live with your mother and take care of her, there is nothing wrong with that, actually a lot of people take care of their elderly parents, my brother in law is 55 and lives with my inlaws who are elderly, I am glad he is there for them too.

Healing and gaining is paying attention to whatever "negative" self talk we have and realizing it is "garbage' and work on simply discarding it.

((Caring Supportive Hugs))
OE

It's ok Mowtown, when that happens you have an opportunity to work through it with "much more knowledge and ability" in the now than you had back then. It is not taking place because you did anything wrong either, you just have not processed it "yet" and you do have "more" going on for you "now" then at that time and you have to slow down and acknowledge it with "yes, that did happen, but it's not now, not today, I am fine, I understand better and am healing". You just have to let is pass and "self sooth and comfort yourself", you know how to do that, you know you don't need to feed into it anymore either.

Mowtown, here is a quote from that information I posted for you in that link that you liked so much, was so grateful for too.

A stress breakdown (PTSD) is a transformational experience which, with the right support, can ultimately enrich the experiencer's life. However, completing the transformation can be a long and sometimes painful process. Whe Western response - to hospitalise and medicalize the experience, thus hingering the process - may be well intentioned, but may lessen the value and effectiveness of the transformation. How would you feel if, rather an a breakdown, you viewed it as a breakthrough ? How would you feel if it was suggested to you that the reason for a stress breakdown is to awaken you to your mission in life and to enable you to discover the reason why you have incarnated on this planet? How would it change your view of things if it was also suggested to you that a stress breakdown reconfigures your brain to enable you to embark on the path that will culminate in the achievement of your mission?

The above is quoted from the link I gave you Mowtown. And you "have" at times talked about what you "have" learned from this that is "positive". You have taken a more "postive" approach to you life Mowtown, you have been living it, nothing "wrong with that".

I don't want to heal any more if this is what healing is all about - that is how all of this started, and look what my good intentions got me. I've had a hellish day for reasons I just don't want to get in to, and I think it's time for fate to just sweep me away. My destiny is the gutter, I said it two years ago. I must deserve it, because life always smacks me down.

It is just too hard to fight any more.

((Mowtown)),

I am so sorry you had a hellish day today. I wish I could say these difficult days don't happen, but I can't. I have learned that when I have gotten them, I do my best to be patient, vent when I can and let it all settle. I always learn something and I have just learned to be very patient with myself. You are hard on yourself Mowtown, you don't deserve to be so hard on yourself, you "are" a nice man.

Please PM me and just vent it out. I will listen.

(((Gentle Hugs)))

Someone told me that the 2nd generation of whatever-american kids do a whole lot better than the first generation, because we dont do to the 2nd generation what was done to us, esp in "old country ways". So maybe i didnt do as well as other american kids, but compared to some of my cousins, i did a lot. But i was still asking myself, who am i, this dumb italian kid my parents treat me as (projection?), or a smart independent woman? Its hard to keep a foot in both worlds.

The process of healing hurts like hell!! I can understand why you feel like you don't want it. Just don't give up, I know the rewards will be good out the other side.

I also understand the feeling of always being smacked down......but you certainly do not deserve it Johnny.

My T asks me, what if you were to give up the fight Jane? Stop fighting the pain, instead.....do something else to move towards your value driven future.

Johnny. What if you stopped fighting? And just kept going?

"I had this really interesting, multi-part conversation with my mom. I told her that I had to know what she, and the rest of the family, thought about me, and whether being "mentally ill" changes that in their eyes, if it makes me a bad person, if it makes them want me out. Her response was no, of course not, but that is only her response. If the rest knew ???????? I wanna know if the diagnosis matters to them, whether or not they view one thing as better or worse than another?" quote MowtownJohnny

((Mowtown)), this is a very challenging part of the "healing process", it's been very hard for myself as well.

When it comes to family "dysfunction" that has resulted in a parent that was challenged like your father was, no one comes out of that "normal and healthy and balanced". Every family member develops their own "victim mentality" from something like that, everyone. You are trying to ask other individuals in your family to "care and help you" so you can have a sense of "self" that you have felt "lost somehow". However, these different individuals can only give you their own "victim mentality" which typically results in some kind of "disappointing invalidation" that is "not your fault". As I mentioned, this has been very "hard" for me too. This is also something that I have seen in other challenged members too.

When you asked your mother that question what you did not see about her is that she did not really "know" how to be a "mother" or even fight back to protect herself. You, as the child had to step in and "try" to be the adult. "YOU" were the one she called when things got bad for her remember? None of your siblings "protected her" did they? No, instead they "enabled your father" right? You have "taken care of your mother", because no one else was capable of doing that. What would have it been like for your mother had you not been there, then or now?

You need to give yourself some credit for being the child that stepped up to the plate and did your best to protect your mother. A child should not have to experience that, sadly too many children "do" though. Truth is, you were the only "real man" in that family. How would your mother do if you gave up on life Mowtown? Your mother did not know how to "not be a victim" in her marriage, and at her age the messages she got were certainly not in any way "helpful". Your mother did not have the kind of "help" that is available to women now Mowtown, there were no resources there for her when she had to deal with your father's unpredictable dysfunctional behaviors.

Your mother does "love you" Mowtown, however, she doesn't know "how" to validate you the way you want her to.

In the "now" while you are healing and learning, yes, you get angry and can see what you needed that you did not get. However, what you need to realize is that what you needed and "deserved" was just not there like it is "now". Yet, you were the only child that was "brave" enough to stand up in your family even though you really did not have the help at the time. You really need to see yourself in a different light Mowtown, you were a "good child and good man" all along. You experienced a "stress breakdown" Mowtown, that never means you are a "criminal" or "a bad person" at all.

Yesterday you were remembering that, but you were having a "flashback" Mowtown. That doesn't mean you have not made any gains in your healing, and it doesn't mean you have bipolar or something else wrong or even that you are in any way unworthy either. I have these challenges myself, but I have them because I still have times where I still struggle with being "angry or am in disbelief" that I did have a "stress breakdown". I did not get the right "help" either, I also felt like some kind of "criminal" too. I "was" treated like I was a criminal to be honest.

Mowtown, can I ask you a question? Do you think I should feel bad that I broke down, am I a criminal or a bad person because I broke? Should I just throw in my hat and give up, because I do have times where I have these thoughts? Am I missing something too, am I a pathetic person too?

I don't see you as any kind of "failure" Mowtown, I really don't. I see a really "good" man that was the "only" one in his family to try to fight back and really "help" his mother and still takes care of her so she can live her last years in a peaceful way with a person in her life that "loves and cares about her". You have been "her best friend" Mowtown. Your siblings were and are "not" her best friends, they were "selfish" and from what you have described, still are. However, they are also expressing behavior patterns of growing up in dysfunction too. So, you are dealing with individuals that are not "capable" of validating you the way you deserve. But, never, should that mean you have in any way failed as a person Mowtown.

It's hard to see all that when struggling with PTSD, because, "it hurts", yeah me too. But, you have to be patient with that "hurt", and I know that is hard, me too. I try to embrace thinking about the way I am challenged as some kind of break through instead of a breakdown. But, I definitely have some bad days where I get tired and even "afraid". However, there is a part of me that realizes that my goal to doing better is getting to a point where I can finally settle into myself and don't have to "prove" anything to anyone else. I think I would have been able to do that earlier had I not been stuck in a lawsuit where I am trying to "prove" what I witnessed and lost that has profoundly affected me, even resulting in this damn PTSD.

All I know is that when I see you, I see a nice man who deserves to heal and is trying very hard and gets impatient, which is a normal part of the healing process.

((Hugs))
OE

I just need to "add" something else to remember about "Post Traumatic Stress" here.
People forget the "stress" element of PTSD, and that it is a "stress breakdown".

Often a person can experience a flashback or have an onset of "horrible or crippling anxiety" and not know why. Well, it is important to pay attention to whatever is "stressing" you at the time, because that is what brings on all the other problems that present with PTSD.

It isn't "life" that people want to escape, it is the stress.

For myself, what happened to me created a tremendous amount of stress both financially as well as stressing about "what damage was really there" and in my challenge there was a lot of damage and a lot of expense to me as far as financial cost to discover and tend to the damage, but also how it damaged my business and entire way of life at the time. That "stress" has been ongoing for me because I still have to stress about all the debt I have to keep paying on, still stress about the damaged animals I have to still care for, still stress because of the lawsuit I have been stuck in for 7 years and counting, stressing because my ex-lawyer failed to interview witnesses when these witness could remember, not seven years later as my new lawyer has been trying to do and people struggling now "so many years later" to remember. Oh, I go on and on, however, I have a lot of "ongoing stress" taking place in my life.

So, it is important to realize that often what triggers you is not because of "bad memories", but whatever is causing you to "stress in the now" and doing your best to try to do things that eliminate it if you can. It is "ok" to take whatever steps you need to do in order to reduce "stress' in your life, and that is no one's business but "yours" too.

When PTSD is in the initial stages that can be extremely confusing and debilitating, it is often very "costly" in all kinds of different ways. Often we do whatever we have to do in order to "survive" somehow, and that is what we are designed to do in order to thrive.
There are "losses" that take place, that is just the way things role with PTSD and as the dust begins to settle, we do our best to address the stress that remains in whatever way we need to reduce it. This is how we survive, and always have survived as human beings. It is important to remind yourself that "it is ok to be a survivor", because it really is.

((Motown Johnny))

I am so sorry it hurts so much right now. But we are here and want you to stay with us. If you can't keep struggling to carry on moving just now, stand still - take a breather for a bit. Flashbacks are horrible but you have got past them before.


Bluegrey