[mightaswelllive]

I have major touch issues with everyone - even my closest friends and family. I do not like to be touched (trauma related)- it induces panic, flashbacks, and dissociation. I am still unable to distinguish between safe and unsafe touch in the moment. Though, when not being touched, I do understand what safe touch is.

Anyway, I have a medical related phobia (I've got lots and lots of fears!) and I needed to go to the doctor about a month ago. T went with me and we were talking about it in session yesterday and she informed me that, at the doctor, after the procedure, as we sat in the waiting room while I calmed and came back to earth, I reached for her hand. This was shocking to me. I literally did a mental double take when she told me. I actually reached out to be held but have no memory of it happening.

It was so surprising to me to find out that my conscious mind is so hugely afraid of any kind of physical touch or affection but my subconscious is timidly begging for it. Just hearing that it happened was a strange kind of exposure - I'm anxious to continue the conversation, but right now I'm not sure what to think about it. Any takers?

[cmac13]

I too have touch issues. I absolutely fear going to the doctors office. My therapist has helped me to find a doctor that is female and understands my issues. She spoke with this doctor about my touch issues and fears. I can say that for the past two years I have gone for a routine physical and mamogram. I cannot get myself to allow a gyn. exam/pap test. But i's a start. I am almost 50 so it is important for my physical health to see a doctor at least once a year. I am healthy with no problems so far. I recently needed pysical therapy for a shoulder injury but had to quit because I did not like the physical therapist touching me so much. With my own therapist who I have known forever I can asked to be hugged and feel safe with that touch.

[peaches100]

Wow! It's really interesting that you initiated needed touch with your t, when consciously you have no awareness of wanting physical comfort. Do you think that the semi-aware state you were in enabled you to instinctively seek out what you needed without the fears and defenses that would normally crop up?

[chaotic13]

I think our bodies are instinctually programmed to seek touch.If you think about it touch is the first sense babies develop and use to explore and connect with the world around them.

I think for many of use abuse or skewed social conditioning teaches us that touch is harmful,painful, bad and we are dirty, needy, or evil if we seek it. I seem to be in continual state of conflict attempting to sort out which touch is safe, which isn't. Which type of touch is appropriate and healthy to accept and even seek inside and outside the home.

I think I am struggling with wanting to expose myself and deal directly with my touch issues but am having trouble figuring out what the boundaries should be.

[OliviaC]

Originally Posted by mightaswelllive

Anyway, I have a medical related phobia (I've got lots and lots of fears!) and I needed to go to the doctor about a month ago. T went with me and we were talking about it in session yesterday and she informed me that, at the doctor, after the procedure, as we sat in the waiting room while I calmed and came back to earth, I reached for her hand. This was shocking to me. I literally did a mental double take when she told me. I actually reached out to be held but have no memory of it happening.

Wow, your therapist went to the doctor with you? That's awesome!

I also have a phobia of doctors and I have a checkup today and am scared. My therapist would never ever accompany me to the doctor's office though. Isn't that crossing boundaries? Don't get me wrong I am happy for you, just that they are not supposed to see clients out of their therapeutic setting, at least from what I have read.

[cmac13]

Today I wish it was sSturday and I would be having my session and I just need a hug from my therapist and for her to tell me I am safe with her and it's ok to feel sad, but it's Thursday and i have to wait.

((((((((((((((((((mightaswelllive)))))))))))))))))

How cool and supportive of your T to go with your to your appt.

I think holding hands is such a gentle and safe way to share touch. My 12 year old son reaches over and holds my hand for a minute sometimes while we are driving in the car. T and I hold hands for parts of every session. When I was in college, I held hands with my friends - female and male - occasionally.

Some part of you must have needed soothed, and you reached out for something safe and reassuring. Maybe now that you know that it happened, you will be able to reach out for that comfort and reassurance again....

[mightaswelllive]

Originally Posted by peaches100

Do you think that the semi-aware state you were in enabled you to instinctively seek out what you needed without the fears and defenses that would normally crop up?

I think this is such an interesting question. I've been thinking about it since you posted it. I don't really have an answer, but it brings up so many questions about my subconscious. It's amazing how our brains have so many levels - how we can both see what we need and avoid it at the same time. I guess this did enable me to see out what I needed when I was in my dissociated fuzzy state??

Originally Posted by OliviaC

Isn't that crossing boundaries? Don't get me wrong I am happy for you, just that they are not supposed to see clients out of their therapeutic setting, at least from what I have read.

It was based on the circumstances mostly - It was something that needed to be taken care of quickly and I didn't have proper time to prepare in therapy - and I honestly didn't have anyone else to go with me. We talked about if it was crossing a boundary and both of us consulted people outside of the therapeutic relationship to discuss the circumstance. Everyone seemed to agree that it was okay. It retrospect, I am so glad that it worked out the way it did. T helped me get through and it enabled me to open up a bunch of new issues.

Originally Posted by treehouse

Some part of you must have needed soothed, and you reached out for something safe and reassuring. Maybe now that you know that it happened, you will be able to reach out for that comfort and reassurance again....

This really melts my brain up so much! Touching people/being touched makes me feel crazy. The thought of an interaction with T does seem safe in my mind but whenever I'm in session I get nauseated when the thought comes up. We spent today talking about something else but after session there was a strange incident and we briefly talked about it - it was a cruddy situation that I'm not ready to talk about right now - but I think what happened will help break ground for going back to this topic next week. So maybe if we're able to talk about it some more I can get to a place where I can consciously reach out for comfort.

I feel so crappy about this touch crapola.

[chaotic13]

((M)) Reading your last few comments made me feel really sad.

Treehouse your comment about your son holding your hand made me think of my own children and how often both of them reach out for me. I don't particularly like to be touched, but when they to these little things it an inner part of me just melts. I like providing this type of comforting for them. I also feel good because I feel like I provided them with something special that I don't think I will ever fully appreciate.

Touch should not be harmful!...there has to be a way to re-program and fix this loss

[mightaswelllive]

((((Chaotic)))) I meant to respond to your message earlier but I just realized that it didn't get quoted so I missed it.

Originally Posted by chaotic13

I think our bodies are instinctually programmed to seek touch.If you think about it touch is the first sense babies develop and use to explore and connect with the world around them.

I think for many of use abuse or skewed social conditioning teaches us that touch is harmful,painful, bad and we are dirty, needy, or evil if we seek it. I seem to be in continual state of conflict attempting to sort out which touch is safe, which isn't. Which type of touch is appropriate and healthy to accept and even seek inside and outside the home.

I think I am struggling with wanting to expose myself and deal directly with my touch issues but am having trouble figuring out what the boundaries should be.

I think you're pretty on point with everything you said. I wish I still had my developmental and social psychology books to reference. It's weird to read your thoughts (and other people's) and realize that if someone else had asked my question I would probably respond with the same types of thoughts, but when the question/problem is my own, I am unable to rationalize it down.

Has anything helped you to push forward in working on this touch issue? Two things are pushing me right now - knowing that I'm moving at the end of the summer and wherever I go, I'm probably going to be alone and I'm going to need people to thrive and also knowing that at the end of the summer when I move I have to start over with a new T and it could take me a whole year to learn to trust someone new enough to work on this. They are not huge motivators as the former is just a prospect and the latter I want to pretend isn't going to happen. Admittedly though, I really don't want to be alone and without touch forever. The idea of that is just as painful as the idea of being touched is right now - I'm just not sure that the prospect of possibly being with someone again someday is enough to plow through.

Originally Posted by chaotic13

Treehouse your comment about your son holding your hand made me think of my own children and how often both of them reach out for me. I don't particularly like to be touched, but when they to these little things it an inner part of me just melts. I like providing this type of comforting for them. I also feel good because I feel like I provided them with something special that I don't think I will ever fully appreciate.

Touch should not be harmful!...there has to be a way to re-program and fix this loss

Have you found that having children has been a way of reprogramming you? I'm only 23 and not really planning to have children so that wouldn't be a valuable strategy for me but I am curious nonetheless.

I actually talked to T tonight after I sent my earlier reply and we talked about what happened today and she thinks we need to test my limits to see what exactly is pushing my buttons so much with touch (ex: element of surprise, expectation, source of touch, my mood/level of awareness, situational context, etc). She said we're going to have to start trying to work with more physical exposure. (vomit)

to all

[mightaswelllive]

Originally Posted by mightaswelllive

to all

100% cyber of course because I would never touch any of you

[skeksi]

Originally Posted by mightaswelllive

I'm only 23 and not really planning to have children so that wouldn't be a valuable strategy for me but I am curious nonetheless.

I hat touch of any kind, hate to even have someone too close (within a few feet), but I work with kids, and when I'm with them, all bets are off. I can tolerate their touch, and I reach out to pat their heads, high five, or give hugs, because I know they thrive on that contact.

After discussing it with my T, I decided that I can tolerate the contact because they are "safe," not a threat. So now I'm trying to find adults who feel safe, like close girl friends, and I'm trying out hugs & stuff. Bit by bit I think my aversion to touch is eroding.

[chaotic13]

Originally Posted by mightaswelllive

It's weird to read your thoughts (and other people's) and realize that if someone else had asked my question I would probably respond with the same types of thoughts, but when the question/problem is my own, I am unable to rationalize it down.

WELL YES... it is always easier to tell others how to fix or see things differently :-) If I took my own advice that I give here... I would be a wonderfully, loving, well adjusted person..what's the saying ...those who can't do can at least try and inspire others.

Has anything helped you to push forward in working on this touch issue?

I am being asked to expand my knowledge base at work. To do this is requiring me to take courses which involve A LOT of touch. Altough I am still not very comfortable being touched... I now know I AM capable of enduring very intense touch situations. I will also say that by engaging in these "forced" but very safe touch situations, I've been able to make some new mental connections with touch stimuli. Finally, I seem to be in contact now with a different group of people---IDK more sensory/feeling oriented vs sterile medically oriented. This has awakened the right side of my brain, which I think I really needed both professionally and personally.
So at this point engaging in intensive safe touch activities has help at least physically improve my tolerance to touch. What I want to do now is work on moving from tolerating it to possibily enjoy the benefits of it.

Have you found that having children has been a way of reprogramming you?

OMG yes. Having children gave me people to care about. Though my children I've realized that I do in fact have an AMG portion of brain that is functional. However, I don't think you have to HAVE kids to learn this lesson. You just have to be about them and interact with them to see how different the world is than what you always thought it was.

...she thinks we need to test my limits to see what exactly is pushing my buttons so much with touch (ex: element of surprise, expectation, source of touch, my mood/level of awareness, situational context, etc). She said we're going to have to start trying to work with more physical exposure. (vomit)

This is interesting... I wonder how she is going to approach this with you.

[FooZe]

(Disclaimer: it's been a long time since I was in therapy, I wasn't in therapy for all that long, the subject of touch hardly ever came up, and when it did, it wasn't about touching either of my Ts.)

Nowadays I seem to have access to two entirely different ways of thinking about (or responding to) touch. One is crazymaking, the other isn't. Ordinarily I seem to be able to shift back and forth between them fairly easily -- though I can also picture getting triggered in some way that'll throw me into crazymaking mode for at least a few minutes.

A few years ago I was talking to a friend about boundaries and she mentioned that her idea of a boundary violation was "having someone stand too close to you in line." I took a look and realized that when someone stands unexpectedlly close to me, I don't automatically treat it as a problem; instead, I take a look at how I actually feel about it. I may get a sense that I like or dislike the person a little -- that I'd prefer they moved farther away or, on the other hand, that I don't mind them where they are and maybe that I wouldn't mind them even closer.

My new neighbor (female, attractive) sometimes stands closer to me than expected when we happen to be talking. So far I don't have the sense that she means any harm so I accept it as a friendly gesture.

Once I was in someone's house, troubleshooting her stove, and she came over and stood next to me, actually making slight contact. I was distinctly uneasy because I thought she was making a play for me and I wasn't at all into sexual encounters with near-strangers. I ignored the contact and just kept on with what I was doing, and she eventually backed away.

I seem to be on hugging terms with most of my friends but we mostly hug only on special occasions -- such as after not having seen each other for a year. I do remember that back when I had much more of a charge on touch I'd hesitate to hug/touch anyone I wasn't, say, dating because I expected them to be put off by how much I wanted the contact.

(Howdy, Mighty! A cyberhug to you, if you don't mind... )

[chaotic13]

Fool Zero I think my reactions to people standing close to me is some what similar. However, I think when they first enter my personal space I do kind of feel a danger signal. However I am able to stop and ask myself similiar questions. Often I may do a subtle retreat to a safer distance until I figure out there intent. The other day golfing one of the guys I was playing with came and stood a little to close to me. This initally bothered me but after I assess it I was OK with his closeness. By the end of the round I got used to it and even kind of liked it. He wasn't coming on to me, it was just his way of interacting.