Okay, I am thinking out loud on these boards a lot right now because I am trying to figure out what is going on with me, and hoping someone has input/ideas.

T has a hurt back. It's not serious, but it does affect him - he has to sit a certain way, he can't do some of the things in his normal life (like go running), it's uncomfortable. I only know about it because I saw him the day after it was hurt and it was really bothering him enough that he knew I would notice and he wanted me to know why he wasn't his normal self.

I swear, I can not do therapy while he is hurt.

I was raised by alcoholics and RULE NUMBER ONE is don't bother people who don't feel well. Well, I don't know if that was rule number one (that was probably actually "stay out of the way or you'll be sorry"). It is SO INGRAINED in me to not make trouble for anyone, but especially people who aren't feeling well.

I've learned in T that it is okay to have needs and feelings, and I've accepted that, and I can even tell him about my needs and feelings and know it will be accepted and okay and I won't get in trouble or abandoned or hurt or anything. I'll just be heard and cared for. That was a hard lesson to learn, took a long time, but I feel like I kind of "get it" now.

But with T hurt, all bets are off. Even though T has clearly explained to me that he has a great support system and it's nothing serious, just painful, and even though I PROMISED that I wouldn't "take care" of him, I can't help it. I just can NOT put my needs ahead of his when he is hurt. I know that's why I haven't been calling, why I've been shut down in session, etc. TOTAL transference reaction, I can see that, but I just can't get past it.

It makes me want to cry to even think about it. I can't imagine going in there and being honest and telling him my real feelings and needs while he's hurt. And since it's his back, it will probably be a long term thing. I can't do it. It's way way way way too scary.

I hate that I have come so far in therapy and in some ways I feel like I'm right back at the beginning because of this. I feel guilty even complaining about it because HE IS HURT. I just can't wrap my mind around how to do this.

Help???

[peaches100]

Hi Treehouse,

I'm sorry you're struggling so much about this.

It makes me want to cry to even think about it. I can't imagine going in there and being honest and telling him my real feelings and needs while he's hurt.

Try to imagine it. What bad result do you foresee happening if you do?

And since it's his back, it will probably be a long term thing. I can't do it. It's way way way way too scary.

What is the scary part?

I hate that I have come so far in therapy and in some ways I feel like I'm right back at the beginning because of this.

I don't see you as being back at the beginning. I see this as a very important stage in your therapy. This situation is ripe for allowing you to confront your previously held feelings and beliefs about having needs in an alcoholic family. . .

Consider some questions. . .you can reply or just think about them. . .

What does it mean to you to have needs, while at the same time others have needs?

How do you manage these types of conflicting needs?

What prompts you to put other people's needs ahead of your own?

What thoughts and feelings do you tell yourself in making the decision to put others first?

Is putting other people's needs first always the best option?

Did doing that with your alcoholic family always turn out well?

How does putting yourself second place serve you now?

What is the scary part about expressing your needs to your t, while knowing his back hurts?

Will talking about your needs mean you don't care about his needs?

Will emphasizing your needs automatically diminish the importance of his?

So much material here. . . so much!

Hang in there, Treehouse! I see this, not as being back at the beginning, but as being at an important crossroads.

[laura2]

geesse tree, i'm so sorry your feeling like this, it must feel really strange for you, no wonder your soooo confused, he cares for you, & its so obvious he means alot to you

he's told you he has a good support network, but you cannot put your own needs before his, have you told him this, does he know exactly how you feel, if not you need to tell him, you need to let all this worry out, if he isnt already, he will be touched by your concern, & he will help you

the last thing he would want is for your progress to be hampered, due to something to do with him, that would only make him feel worse, be totally honest with him, you can only work through this together

please dont shut down, try to look at it you being strong for both of you

[lilacbutterfly]

This has happened to me with my T - he has had a hurt back or not been feeling well, and it's really hard for me to accept that he can take care of himself and would not be there if he was not prepared to listen to me fully. He takes time off when he is sick or injured enough to need to. Oddly, I don't think I've discussed this with him, but I've been getting close to it lately. I totally understand that need to not bother people who are hurting... for me it was "Don't bother people who aren't feeling well or are hurt, because then even if they are able to be there for you a little now, if they get bothered they won't be there at all and you'll be alone again."

Try your best to discuss this with T, as hard as it may be. It could yield valuable insights.

[SpottedOwl]

(((((treehouse)))))

One of the things about being raised in an alcoholic household is that often times things are seen as very black and white, and there is little room for grays.

I just can NOT put my needs ahead of his when he is hurt.

I see that as being black and white thinking. IMHO needs do not need to be mutually exclusive.
Let me give you a simple example...

Lets say you have a headache, but your kids are hungry and wanting dinner. Would you ever expect your kids to not eat dinner just because YOU weren't feeling 100%? I'm guessing that you might first take an aspirin (take care of your needs first), and then make sure your kids have dinner (take care of their needs.)

Definitely talk with T about this. I know it must be really, really scary to even think about talking to him. Maybe it will help to remind yourself that T *does not* think in black and white like your parents did.

Not sure if this helps...if not, ignore it, and just know you've got my support!

[ECHOES]

Maybe T likes being there, healing, right along with you?

Sometimes we can get the idea that other people's hurts have something to do with us. You don't cause T pain by being there. He is there because he wants to be there.

[Amazonmom]

This could be a great growth opportunity for you....learning that even though someone important to you is hurt you can still have your needs met.

I know it's really hard...but can you imagine how great it would be to break free of the idea that chains you down?

Hugs no matter what you decide to do in T

[del12]

Originally Posted by peaches100

Hi Treehouse,

I'm sorry you're struggling so much about this.

It makes me want to cry to even think about it. I can't imagine going in there and being honest and telling him my real feelings and needs while he's hurt.

Try to imagine it. What bad result do you foresee happening if you do?

And since it's his back, it will probably be a long term thing. I can't do it. It's way way way way too scary.

What is the scary part?

I hate that I have come so far in therapy and in some ways I feel like I'm right back at the beginning because of this.

I don't see you as being back at the beginning. I see this as a very important stage in your therapy. This situation is ripe for allowing you to confront your previously held feelings and beliefs about having needs in an alcoholic family. . .

Consider some questions. . .you can reply or just think about them. . .

What does it mean to you to have needs, while at the same time others have needs?

How do you manage these types of conflicting needs?

What prompts you to put other people's needs ahead of your own?

What thoughts and feelings do you tell yourself in making the decision to put others first?

Is putting other people's needs first always the best option?

Did doing that with your alcoholic family always turn out well?

How does putting yourself second place serve you now?

What is the scary part about expressing your needs to your t, while knowing his back hurts?

Will talking about your needs mean you don't care about his needs?

Will emphasizing your needs automatically diminish the importance of his?

So much material here. . . so much!

Hang in there, Treehouse! I see this, not as being back at the beginning, but as being at an important crossroads.

Great questions Peaches! It is so hard to find the words to explain what is going on and your questions are exactly what I need. I have the same problem as Treehouse in that I come froma family of alcoholics and I feel so guilty when I put my own needs first. It is so easy to take the responsibility to take care of others when it really is not your own job. Finding that place where you are supportive without denying yourself of your own needs is difficult and your questions are a great starting point.
thanks so much

Wow, thanks everyone for your great insights and suggestions.

Peaches....those are really good questions. A LOT to think about there, and I'm going to sit down and do some writing to try to sort out my thoughts.

Spotted Owl...I totally see what you are saying about the black and white thing. I get it intellectually, but wow, it's so hard for me to really embrace and believe that it is okay for me to have needs at the same time as him.

(((((((((((((((laura))))))))))))))) (((((((((((((((lilac))))))))))))))) (((((((((((((((((echoes))))))))))))))))))) ((((((((((((((((del))))))))))))))))))
I SO appreciate everyone's thoughts and experiences. It's always helpful to know that I'm not the only one going through something...

I guess this is something to talk about with T. I sort of hinted at it, and he left me a message saying that he wanted to be sure we talked about it after his vacation. It probably IS a growth opportunity for me, but it's SO scary and uncomfortable (like most growth opportunities, I guess). It''s really thrown me for a loop, MUCH MUCH more than I ever would have expected.

[MissCharlotte]

((tree))

I think that this is a perfect opportunity to engage the transference and growth that is available when you do. Maybe you could tell T exactly what you told us and see what comes out of the session. I truly understand this dilemma (having grown up in an alcoholic household as well). But I have learned that when I "don't" want to do or talk about something in therapy it's probably what I should engage. And I am always surprised at what comes out of these interactions because of how clever my psyche is at hiding stuff from me. It's kind of like yoga, the poses I hate are those that my body needs.

Many hugs.

Treehouse,

Is there a part of you that feel that maybe he isn't as strong as he normally is now, and you don't want to make him worse by your problems? Or could it be that he seems TOO real now, like if this has happened to him other things could happen and that you could lose him... Because he is human?
I really don't know, I know I have felt this way before. I remember one time my T got this vein surgery and I didn't know he was going to do it. So he shows up, barely able to walk with his leg all swelled up and bandages. I just looked at him and his leg and couldn't talk. I was just shocked and all of sudden my problems didnt' seem as bad as him being in some kind of pain. I really cared about him and I felt so bad that he was feeling bad.

[ECHOES]

((( treehouse )))
I was thinking more about your not wanting your needs to be ahead of T's needs because of his current back ailment.

Being raised by alcoholics is like caregiver training. It shouldn't be that way, that children are trained/forced into roles of being the caregivers of adults, but that is so often the case with children of alcoholics. Did you know that nursing is a field that many ACOA decide to persue? They have been training for it all their lives, so it's a "natural" choice to continue in that caregiving/supporting direction.

Originally Posted by ECHOES

Did you know that nursing is a field that many ACOA decide to persue? They have been training for it all their lives, so it's a "natural" choice to continue in that caregiving/supporting direction.

That is funny, echoes, because I've often thought about what I would do when my kids were grown and I've thought about going back to school to pursue a nursing degree.

(((((((((((((((exoticflower)))))))))))))))) ((((((((((((((((((echoes))))))))))))))))

I thought about this a little more last night. My mom lives 4 miles from me and is a continual state of bad health (still an alcoholic, has cancer). I am expected to drop everything at any time to care for her, and when she is in crisis, I pretty much discontinue any self-care to care for her. If I don't do it, there are consequences - mainly big, ugly guilt trips. She has no other resources, because my dad is dead, and as an alcoholic, she has no friends. It makes my stomach turn to even type this.

Clearly this is something I need to work on. Blah

[Sannah]

Hi Treehouse, maybe this is all just a trigger and it is more about the past than the present? So the work isn't working on you and T in the present but you and T working on what is being triggered in the past?????????????? (How you felt as a child when your feelings and needs took a backseat all the time and I guess the present too because it is still happening with your mom??????).

Originally Posted by treehouse

I hate that I have come so far in therapy and in some ways I feel like I'm right back at the beginning because of this.

I think of stuff like this as you in therapy have many tracks that you are working on. You have worked some tracks pretty far but with other tracks you are just starting. You haven't lost the other track that you made progress on when you find a new track that needs work.

[Elysium]

Hey Treehouse,

You are such a caring person!! Sometimes our caring can become slightly problematic for us though when it comes to requesting that our needs be met by the healthier people in our lives.

I fully understand what you are saying. My T had an injury a while back and I did feel guilty for spilling all of my stuff on her when I knew she was going through issues of her own.

What actually helped me to do this and get passed it was to realize that my T is a human being. And as with any human being, T has a purpose in the world which she is striving to fulfill. For her that purpose is to be the best T she can be and to be able to provide her care to her clients in the best way possible. If you allow your issues with T's injury to hinder your therapy and therapeutic relationship, in a sense you are preventing T from being the best T he can be and preventing him from being able to fulfill his purpose. He can only be a good T if you allow him to be. And he can't do his job and fulfill his purpose without your help. Let him be the T he's meant to be!! He can't help you if you don't show up for therapy.....don't hold back!!

Just a different angle to look from....

Take care!!

Originally Posted by Elysium3006

What actually helped me to do this and get passed it was to realize that my T is a human being. And as with any human being, T has a purpose in the world which she is striving to fulfill. For her that purpose is to be the best T she can be and to be able to provide her care to her clients in the best way possible. If you allow your issues with T's injury to hinder your therapy and therapeutic relationship, in a sense you are preventing T from being the best T he can be and preventing him from being able to fulfill his purpose. He can only be a good T if you allow him to be. And he can't do his job and fulfill his purpose without your help. Let him be the T he's meant to be!! He can't help you if you don't show up for therapy.....don't hold back!!

((((((((((((((((Elysium))))))))))))))) This helps a lot. I hadn't thought of this perspective. Thanks