[peaches100]

Hey all! Sorry I haven’t been around much. It’s good to be here now!

There’s something I want to bounce off you guys because I’ve been struggling with it for a LONG time, and I think it really holds me back in therapy a great deal.

The work I’ve done in therapy so far has shown me that the bulk of my problems stem from my relationship with my parents, starting when I was just an infant – on through my childhood to today. There’s a pretty clear indication from things my therapist and my husband have said that my parents were rather neglectful. I’m not talking about physical abuse or SA in the family. . .lack of affection, emotional support, protection, guidance, help, and emotional abuse from my dad. I did have some SA as a child by a neighbor, and know my sister had SA also, though I am not sure of the circumstances. This I believe happened to both of us because my parents really didn’t keep a close eye on us.

There are a number of other traumas and pains I have inside me related to my parents. I am willing to accept that perhaps my extreme sensitivity has caused me to blow these things out of proportion or allow them to hurt me badly, when perhaps other kids would have been able to let those things roll off their back. So there’s an issue of me not being sure that my feelings of hurt or anger are really justified. This makes it really hard for me to even admit to my t (or to myself) that I feel hurt or angry at my folks. Also, as a Christian, I am taught to honor my father and mother, so I feel guilty and ashamed about sharing with my therapist the negative feelings I have toward my mom and dad. I love my parents even though I have a very strained relationship with my dad. I would never want to hurt them. And I don’t want to seem like a whining complainer. Still, I have all of this unexpressed pain that I’ve denied and pushed down for so long, and it is really making me sick.

What I notice that I do is, whenever I think or talk about anything negative related to my parents, I immediately feel guilty. Then, I try to compensate for the negative thought by thinking about or telling about something good my parents have done for me. Also, when I think or speak about things that happened during my childhood, or express pain about it, there’s a voice inside me that says “It wasn’t that bad. You should not feel hurt or angry.” Or “You’re a bad daughter for talking about their faults.” This makes me so uncomfortable that I end up just stuffing the feelings back down, or worse, tell myself that I am not hurt or angry after all, that things were good and my own perceptions are wrong. I try to look at things from a positive angle. But in some way, I am denying the part of myself that has been hurt and is in pain from things that have happened to me in the past. I am trying to “not notice it,” just the way that my parents didn’t notice my pain and struggling as a child.

Lately, I’ve started having angry dreams, where I tell my dad off. But when I wake up, I can’t remember why I was angry in my dream , or what I said to my dad. During my waking hours, and even in therapy, I don’t feel the anger and can’t reach it. However, yesterday, almost without thinking, I wrote something about my family and emailed it to my t. I have to say that, honestly, I meant what I wrote. But it was mean I think. It was sarcastic, and it sounded angry. I feel so guilty and ashamed for having written it because it just isn’t nice. I don’t feel like a good daughter or a good Christian. So I sent a second email, asking my t to ignore the previous one, as I felt bad and should not have sent it. However, my t wrote back that she’d already read it and we would address all of these things on my session (today).

HELP!! I don’t know what to do!! On one hand, I need to talk about all the hurt and pain I have inside because I can’t seem to make it disappear. But on the other hand, I want to “Honor thy father and mother,” as the Bible says to do. I don’t know how I can honestly express my negative feelings about my parents in a way that still honors them. Or in a way that I don’t feel ashamed of myself. I keep trying to just counteract the painful feelings by saying it wasn’t that bad, or by thinking happy thoughts. I want so much to be a nice person, and a good daughter. I feel like I won’t be if I allow myself to feel hurt, angry, or disappointed or if I talk that way. But by denying it’s there, I am denying my own reality and making myself sick.

It’s a huge dilemma, and I know it’s holding me back in therapy big-time. It’s all stuffed down and it *hurts*.

Please somebody, can you understand the situation objectively enough to tell me how I can honor my feelings of pain without dishonoring my parents?

[mixedup_emotions]

I can soooo relate to what you're feeling, and I too haven't been able to make that step because of those feelings.

I think this post is an excellent topic to address with your T....to explore the struggle of what you're feeling.

My T told me before that I need to allow myself to feel anger towards my parents before I am able to get to the next stage....and ultimately, I will go back to loving them and accepting them even with their limitations. It's incredibly hard to do. I haven't gotten there yet - for all the reasons you listed.

[Melbadaze]

As my T once said, speaking a truth doesn't have to be about blame.

[Brightheart]

(((((Peaches)))))

I think a lot of us struggle with this one. I know I have. Parents are human beings with flaws just like any of us. You feel guilty as if you are placing blame on them for some of your difficulties. But I don't think it's about assessing blame. It's about coming to accept and acknowledge what transpired in your past so that you may understand the whys of how it has affected you in the present. Expressing anger toward your parents does not dishonor them and isn't un-Christian from my point of view. I think what it does is honor you and that is certainly something your parents would want, one would think. You would be honoring and being true to yourself about your feelings and emotions. Of course you love your parents. Loving people also means accepting and allowing them their imperfections. We can love and be angry too for what was lost to us. A child being honest with themselves and acknowledging their pain on the road to healing is something one would hope every parent would want for their children. No one's parents are perfect and that is okay. It's okay to be angry.

[mixedup_emotions]

Wow, the responses to this, so far, are hitting home for me. My struggle has to do with self-blame...because I don't want to "blame" my parents. My T once asked me, "Can you be angry without blaming?"

This is a difficult concept for me. Something to consider, for sure.

I had very good parents who made some critical mistakes that ended up causing me a lot of pain (and hours in therapy). It isn't all black and white. No one is perfect and it is okay to acknowledge your parents' mistakes and the pain they have caused. Accepting them with all of their faults IS honoring them. Honor doesn't mean we have to be blind to their mistakes. We can acknowledge them; we can be angry about them. It's okay.

[sittingatwatersedge]

Dear Peaches,

wow I really understand where you are - me too.

I can only stay for a sec but wanted to give you just a couple of things

** yes we are told "Honor thy father and thy mother" but elsewhere you will read that parents are told, "do not provoke thy child to anger." I can look it up for you (or you can go to Biblegateway and find it).

** You are not responsible for what was done to you in your growing up years. Anger can be a perfectly reasonable response to abuse, whether emotional, or otherwise. The fact that you didn't/couldn't/were not allowed to express it, as it was with me, is what is hurting you now.

** I went to see my pastor about this very subject and he said:
Imagine you have one of those reusable shopping bags, and some things in it knock together and break, and there's stuff slopping all around in the bottom making a mess. You would never take that bag back to the store and just put fresh groceries into it; you would first have to put your hand down into the bag, and draw out the broken pieces, and clean up the mess.
In the process of doing this,he said, you're probably going to get your hands dirty; but it has to be done. In other words, even he would be fine with anger experienced under those circumstances. YOu would not be just letting it take you over, not dwelling on it forever, but you would only be working on it to release it for good. Has to be done.
His wise words helped me a lot (although a year later I am still drawing out broken pieces and cleaning up the mess). And yes I still feel guilt about the angry feelings, but I know that they are just THERE, and must be worked on, or they will always be there.

You are not alone, Peaches. Don't worry, be brave, and with your T you can face those feelings. I am confident that one day they will lose their power to hurt you (and me).

[NuckingFutz]

I was told that nice girls don't get angry. So internalized it like you did. When I internalized my anger, over the years it turned into depression. My buddy died in Iraq last summer. When I was notified, I got angry, I did not want to grieve yet again. Just gathered up my 90 day med supply & gobbled 'em up. Woke up in an ambulance & hearing "we got a pulse back". I will never do that again.I now know that everybody gets angry. We were created that way to protect ourselves from abuse and injustice. Angeris a necessary emotion Most people do not know a healthy way to express it. Your T can help you with that. When I look at my mom's behavior I see a woman who told me nice girls don't get angry while she's raging at me...so, lets look at it this way, you can love & honor your mom & dad, yet allow yourself to be angry with their behavior. They are not their behavior. It says honor your mother & father, not make yourself sick. The best way to honor them is expressing your anger in a healthy way. Make sense?

[peaches100]

Originally Posted by mixedup_emotions

I can soooo relate to what you're feeling, and I too haven't been able to make that step because of those feelings.

I think this post is an excellent topic to address with your T....to explore the struggle of what you're feeling.

My T told me before that I need to allow myself to feel anger towards my parents before I am able to get to the next stage....and ultimately, I will go back to loving them and accepting them even with their limitations. It's incredibly hard to do. I haven't gotten there yet - for all the reasons you listed.

Mixedupfeelings,

I need to keep telling myself that if it is true that i'll reach a place of love and acceptance, and be able to let go of the burden i'm carrying, then i guess it is worth going through this stage of feeling pain/anger. It just goes against my grain SO MUCH! I really hate being critical of anyone! Even if what i'm saying is true, it still feels unkind. I'd much rather be able to make the pain disappear than have to face/feel/talk about it. But i don't seem to have that power.

[NuckingFutz]

We cannot just make the pain go away. If we all could do that, what would be the point? We wouldn't have to learn and grow. Looking at it as a growth experience is a challenge. Oh, did my other post make sense? I'm really manic today and I'm trying really hard not to say anything inappropriate.

[SpottedOwl]

(((peaches)))

I very much understand the dilemma of wanting to live a loving life, while knowing that you have some strong anger inside.

How do you honor parents who were neglectful? I think that ultimately you have to honor yourself first. Each and every one of us is a child of God, and your feelings are precious. By honoring your parent's creation (you), you ARE being a good daughter.

Practically, I have also found it useful to recognize that some of my feelings are tied into younger ego states. I felt a lot of guilt about anger inside of me until one day I realized it was coming from a young me. The 12-yr old ego state did not need to hear about guilt or responsibility, she just needed to be heard and accepted and then the anger was able to pass. Sometimes putting adult expectations on our emotions is just not realistic.

Can you forgive yourself for being angry?

[BlueMoon6]

((((((Peaches))))) My feeling when I read your post was that you are honoring your mother and your father. You are honoring them with your love, a lot of it, and respect for what/how much they gave you, your deep faith, and that you are able to love them in return. It seems to be to be a great act of love and respect to dig deeper into the angry feelings and hurt you had as a child in order to love and respect them without the burden of anger and hurt and sadness.

You know that as you process these feelings, the hope/goal is that you will be able to love them in a deeper way. Even processing your feelings in your dream is a way to love your father in this deeper way. It seems to me that you dont want so much anger in the way and even in an unconscious, dream-way, you know what is pushing at you. Your anger isnt hate, hate isnt anger. Its OK to be angry and to work it through and then maybe see him in a more realistic way. This, to me, is very honoring of him and of God. Even if its sarcastic in the letter you wrote. Whether we are conscious of it or not, we are in this process not as anger for anger's sake, but as a way to get beyond it and feel love deeply without denying who the person is/has been to us. You may later get to a point where you just love them in this way for who they are, the good and the bad. And I think this kind of geniune love is what we are here for and what God intended (not that I am any kind of expert on God's intentions )

[Brightheart]

Wow, Blue, I am very impressed with that response. I totally agree.

Peaches, I hate criticizing anyone as well. But I think this is more about recognizing the frailties of any human being, parents included. It's the same thing we try to do in therapy with our therapists...recognize them as genuine, real and flawed people...as we all are. Letting go of the illusion and allowing them their mistakes...and at the same time...allowing our own. I doubt very much they would want you to suffer trying to protect them. I hope your session goes well.

peaches, i don't think it is wrong to feel anger but i think it's more what we do with it. do we let it fester and grow and turn into hate and bitterness and hold grudges? ugh, been there, done that and don't recommend it. or are we honest about it and feel it and release it and eventually forgive those who hurt us? i think that is what God is asking us to do. it is a process though and can't be rushed through to get rid of the anger we feel guilty for feeling. it is manytimes not a one-time event and involves many tears and much pain. we are not to lie about our feelings. that certainly wouldn't be honoring God! besides, even if it were wrong to feel anger God already knows. he would just gently ask that we give it over to him rather than deny it.

i think honoring your parents means being honest about what they did and feeling our feelings but forgiving them and having compassion for them, also appreciating the good things they did as well. like someone said earlier we are not our actions good or bad. honor the person, not the sin.

i think God wants to restore people. he wants to see people who are hurt restored, he wants to see the person who has done the hurt restored to a place of health so they don't continue hurting, and he wants to restore the relationship between them if possible. i think the greatest gift we can give to people when they hurt us is forgiveness. it does cost us though. to me, that is being a good daughter.

[velcro003]

Originally Posted by mixedup_emotions

.

My T told me before that I need to allow myself to feel anger towards my parents before I am able to get to the next stage....and ultimately, I will go back to loving them and accepting them even with their limitations. It's incredibly hard to do. I haven't gotten there yet - for all the reasons you listed.

Mine has told me something similar. Every time I bring up the guilt I have for feeling like I am being a bad daughter, she says that in order to get through to the other side...in order to have a happy and harmonious relationship with my mom, I have to feel those feelings first. It is REALLY hard. I still can't do it, because guilt takes over so quickly. I feel like I have no reason to have any long-lasting negative feelings towards my mom. SIgh.

Anger? What is that! I think my T thinks I am angry at my mom...but I dont know. I don't feel it.

[Elysium]

(((((Peaches)))))

It sounds like those voices in your head that you hear telling you "it wasn't that bad" among other messages you get inside and lead to guilt and more pain and anger, could possibly be those old messages that your parents programmed you with when you were young.

You have a right to be angry!! Being angry with your parent's behaviors and the hurt that they have left you with DOES NOT equal being a bad daughter. Yes, the Bible says to "Honor thy Mother and thy Father", but it also states throughout the Bible to honor thy children and treat them with love, and it also states that parents should be vigilant over their children and protect them from harm.

What I have learned about anger is that it is often a secondary emotion. Meaning it is utilized by the psyche as a coping mechanism to cover up the initial emotions that are to uncomfortable for the spirit to sit with. Feelings like hurt, disgust, guilt, shame, and fear.

You were not cared for appropriately as a child. This is very scary and painful for the soul. The goal is to process the pain and move through it in healing, however, if you never process the pain, it does turn to anger, and then, like what it sounds like here, one turns that anger against themselves internally and becomes angry at themselves for being angry and this leads to more shame, guilt, pain, and ultimately results in deeper depression.

You have a divine right to free yourself of these burdens...which were never your burdens to begin with.

Talk with T. Take it slow and release yourself from this misery.

It was never your fault...or your responsibility. It was theirs.

random thought: it's usually women who struggle with feeling guilty for feeling anger. generally, men don't seem to get taught that message as far as i can tell. hmm...

[NuckingFutz]

I wish you all the best in working through this.

[Melbadaze]

Peaches, I also think that untill we become automous, we are very much bound up in guilt. Althought you'd think our first desire is to be automous, theres also something very scary about it, especially for those of us with "abusive" backgrounds", we don,t individualise successfully like "normal" adults from "normal" childhoods do and we have a very young unworked through fear that we will destroy the hand that feeds us, once we become automous and adult in our minds, then I think it becomes a lot clearer, whats theirs and whats ours, But of course the "hurt" child is afraid to "blame, criticise, talk?"..

[peaches100]

Brightheart,

Thank you for your words of encouragement. I am trying to view it as you put it so well here:

I don't think it's about assessing blame. It's about coming to accept and acknowledge what transpired in your past so that you may understand the whys of how it has affected you in the present.

You would be honoring and being true to yourself about your feelings and emotions.

Loving people also means accepting and allowing them their imperfections. We can love and be angry too for what was lost to us.

For some reason, i have had a huge struggle with getting my mind around this, but the way you have expressed it begins to make sense to me now. I never really thought about how my parents would want me to be true to myself and my feelings. Also, i have a big problem with black and white thinking. So it has been hard for me to see *both sides* of my parents at the same time. . .to hold that together in my mind.

For some reason, I have been very stuck in trying to understand, were they "good parents" or "bad parents?" I have difficulty in blending the two sides together. I actually think it is because i have dissociated self parts -- one of which holds all of my negative feelings, pain, and disappointment, and the other self part which views my parents and life in general in a sort of Candyland way, where everything is always good and happy and nice. Because of this, at any given time, i am either in a mood where i feel hurt, angry, and in pain and feel my parents were bad parents. . .or i switch to the other mode and tell myself all is well, good, and happy, and they were good parents and i was/am not sad or hurt or angry.

Yesterday on my session, my t asked me, "Can you love your parents and be happy for what they did right, while also being hurt and angry for the things that caused you pain?" It seems reasonable and logical when she says it, and my intellectual mind is like, "Yeah, that sounds balanced." But getting my emotions and my viewpoint to merge the two opposite planes together is very difficult.

Along with my dissociation problem, i was raised by a mom who was/is always happy, upbeat, smiling, and never shows any negative emotions at all. . .and a dad that was/is nearly always negative, critical, and depressed. They really embodied two extreme ends of the spectrum (extreme positive and extreme negative outlooks). So i believe, in a very real way, i've incorporated my two parents into different parts of my *self*, and that i have done this in some sort of compartmentalized way that causes me to only be able to see from one viewpoint or the other, rather than in a balanced way that combines both.

It really is a "dissociation" problem, and my t is working with me to try to find the balance. I have hope. . .

[peaches100]

Originally Posted by farmergirl

I had very good parents who made some critical mistakes that ended up causing me a lot of pain (and hours in therapy). It isn't all black and white. No one is perfect and it is okay to acknowledge your parents' mistakes and the pain they have caused. Accepting them with all of their faults IS honoring them. Honor doesn't mean we have to be blind to their mistakes. We can acknowledge them; we can be angry about them. It's okay.

Farmergirl,

Thank you for addressing my black and white thinking. Accepting them with all of their faults IS honoring them. That is a good point. Because i really do truly want to accept them. It's just that i am mad too and i can't help it.

[peaches100]

***UPDATE***

I went to my therapy session yesterday. I was nervous about the idea of talking about my anger. I'd left the angry email about my parents, and then had asked her to ignore it. . .but she'd said we would "discuss all of that when you come in."

It just so happened that an event took place at work right as i was getting ready to leave for my session that left me feeling upset, invisible, uncared about, and not appreciated. When i arrived at my session, i was still pretty worked up about it. My t mentioned that what happened at work, and the way i felt about it, was similar to the way i've always felt with my parents. I hadn't thought about it until she brought it up, but she was right.

Uncharacteristically for me, i vented my feelings about the work situation. Then, my t asked me if i was angry. You know, getting me to answer that question was like pulling teeth. I DID NOT want to say i was angry, as i am so programmed to feel that being angry is not nice. I could not get the words out. I told her I didn't know if i was angry, but i knew i was upset. So she asked me, "Imagine one of your coworkers came to you, and said the same things that you just said. What would you guess she might be feeling?" Immediately, the thought came to my mind "I'd think she was really PO'd." So. . .i had to admit that, yes, i was angry. This was followed by my t telling me that anger is a normal human feeling, and it does not make me a bad person. I think we talked about how, the more you try to get rid of anger or deny it, the more it is still there and comes out in other ways, like the angry dreams i was having.

Then, at some point, my t asked me if it would be OK with me to access the part of me that was angry at my parents. I felt scared! She said we could do it for just *1 minute* if i wanted to. The next thing i knew, all of this pain and anger started coming out of me. I talked about several of the things that have happened over the years that have caused me to feel so sad about my parents and bad about myself. I shared with her feelings that i've never been able to express in 10 years of therapy with her. I cried while i was telling her. i cried pretty much the whole hour. Right toward the end, she asked me what that sad and angry part of me needed right then to feel better. I told her i didn't know -- that i was OK i guess.

And then. . . she asked "Can i move a little bit closer to you?" I told her "Yes." So she walked over. She asked, "Can i sit down next to you?" and i told her "Yes." Then she asked, "Can i put my arm around your shoulder?" And when i told her "Yes," she pulled me close and i put my arms around her neck and cried on her shoulder, while she patted my back and told me "You are going to be OK. You are fine just the way you are." Then I cried, "All i ever wanted was for my mom to love me," and she said, "I know." About then, i noticed that my breath felt hot and stuffy coming out, and i was concerned that i was making her neck feel yucky, so i pulled back and said "Thank You. That was nice" to her.

Well, if any of you remember all the turmoil that my t and i had over the "hugging" issue, you will know that this was a monumental day for me. In some ways, i always imagined that crying on her shoulder and being comforted would be this *perfect* moment where i would get what i never had as a child. You know, like a *Kodak moment.* But really, it felt so unperfect. I mean, i wasn't a pretty sight, bawling like that, with the hiccupy hot breaths coming out and my mascara all smeared. And i think i was sort of in shock that she actually came out and offered a hug after all. It all happened so fast and i was so upset that i couldn't really relax into the comfort being given me. But at the same time, i realized how much she cared about me and that she wanted to comfort me. And somehow. . .it just felt so imperfectly, messily natural the way human life is imperfect and messy and natural.

After that, the session was over. When i asked her what she wanted me to work on for next week (I always ask), this time instead of giving me homework, she asked me to "Be nice to yourself." She also said, "Thank you for allowing me to be there for you."

After the session, i was so exhausted, and i still am today. And i am also sort of in shock that i let those feelings out in front of my t. and that she hugged me. I think that session was a huge step in my healing, and i feel that i should leave my t some kind of a message to acknowledge this. I think that she'll be checking her messages, as she will be wondering how i'm doing, because usually whenever i make a big step or get too close to her, i find a reason to get upset and withdraw. But this time, i'm not going to do that. And i don't know what to say.

Do you ever feel like something big happens, and it is so big, that you are left without words?

That is how i feel today.

[sw628]

Peaches
Good for you! I'm so happy that you were finally able to get that hug from T in whatever form it might have come in. I do remember your past threads about the "hugging" issue and how upsetting it was for you. This is a huge step! Continue moving forward.

[sittingatwatersedge]

Dear Peaches!!!!!!!

today has been really difficult, as they go, I really needed to hear this. What a wonderful healing experience. You give me joy!

[Sannah]

Wow, Peaches, this is such wonderful news! You and your T really connected! I hear you talking about it. You are saying that it wasn't perfect. Maybe nothing is perfect? Maybe everything just is and this is okay? I see a parallel here that maybe you can see too? Your parents weren't perfect just like that moment with your T wasn't perfect and this is life?

In the first post you talk about your sensitivity and how you have a reflex to dismiss it. This is who you are and these were your experiences and they were very significant. Your parents in their imperfect state effected you. How you were affected is very significant. It is who you are.

You got such excellent responses here. This is a really good thread.

I got through this issue with my parents. For me, I see my mother as a wounded person. This is why she neglected me. Did she choose to be wounded? No. Did she choose to hurt me and my sisters? No. Did she choose to try to get better? No. (She is 75 and things were a little different back then). All of these things can exist at the same time. I can feel compassion for my mother and then be upset with her too. It's just the way it is.........

I am really happy for you, that you have made this progress!

(Oh yeah, sexual predators are on the look out for neglected children, to address your discussion of this in your first post ......)