[MissCharlotte]

I have struggled with establishing a strong sense of self for many, many reasons, and for 3 years it has been a strong theme in my therapy. Now I am focusing on establishing my individuality in my marriage. H and I were married fairly young and have been together for over 30 years. We have been through an awful lot with one another and have a great deal of mutual love and respect. H and I are best friends, very close, but our desire to care for each other diminishes self growth. It is scary for both of us. I have very carefully begun talking about this with H and T has been encouraging me. Today as I drove home I realized I am also afraid of separating from T; the desire to be myself is strong, yet so is my desire to be with him. I want to be myself and I want to be just like T when I grow up!

[chaotic13]

Miss C,

Do you really want to be just like him or is it more that you want to have similar qualities? I think when we first recognize traits or ways of being that we like, it's common to first try to replicate them. But as we do this and practice incorporating these qualities into our own being they morph and merge with our uniqueness and we become our own person. IDK I don't think this behavior is just limited to childhood. I frequently find myself trying to replicate things I see in others..eventually I get to a point where I get comfortable enough with the behavior and stop trying to copy them. I then move on to some other area of focus. In the end the composite created has traits of the various orignals but is unique in its own right.

[ECHOES]

Today as I drove home I realized I am also afraid of separating from T; the desire to be myself is strong, yet so is my desire to be with him.

Yet you have been separate all along. The awareness of separateness can be distressing sometimes, freeing other times. Being separate just 'is'.

I want to be myself and I want to be just like T when I grow up!

And you can be, MissC. You are far more like T now than when you began, don't you think...as you have internalized so much of him.

[Melbadaze]

miss c, interesting thread, I have nothing to add, as I too have experienced what you are talking about.

[MissCharlotte]

Chaotic,Melba, Echoes,
Yes, I love this: "the composite created is unique in its own right." So true. But, it's not simply wanting to be like T (although I realize it's what I said I was feeling). It's the pull to be myself and yet be "like" him in a more complete way. i think Echoes is right about the internalization. I don't think I've drunk my fill from the cup yet, and the taste so sweet that the yearning and longing is to have more-like a child at the breast. I just hope my void is fillable and not an abyss.

Peaceout everyone.

[chaotic13]

Sooo, are you describing the I hate to use this term..sense of oneness. That feeling that your connected to someone on a much deeper deeper level? If so, I kind of struggle with the "wanting more" of that as well. But for me, being I guess the somewhat detached one...I've felt this sense of connectedness but I don't seem to have it connected to my T or one specific person. For me I've experienced that FULL feeling briefly in different relationships but I just can't seem to figure out how to connect with it at will. I've had a few REALLY connected moments with my T but, they just happened- the planets were aligned? IDK?...Then I'll go months where I feel like she is a total stranger and just crave to feel it again. Then out of the blue we connect briefly again, then its gone again.

Is this what your talking about or am I way off?

[MissCharlotte]

Chaotic,
Yes, you describe this desire VERY well. I have these connected moments, and I want MORE of them. Believe me, although I talk a good story, I don't have all that many of these moments either. However, they are becoming more frequent. I used to think it was a fluke, or as you said the planets were aligned but I am coming round to believing that the deep connection occurs when I can BE with him in the room without dissociating, pulling back, becoming my child self, and we CONNECT. Whew, it's worth waiting and working for. As T says, it's the true intimacy that I am afraid of--I think it's because of a lack of real intimacy in my family growing up. I am learning how to be real. It's such a challenge.

Thanks.

[Melbadaze]

I think its also a feeling of connecting to our core, and most times its as we're in mourning for that part of ourself that we had to split off so as to survive, to please the hand that fed us and then we begin to Experience through a healthy relationship ie T what being ourself is and its that experience that feels so delightful...at first we think its our imitation of T's finer qualities that makes us feel so good, but that passes and we know those qualities are ours, we begin to Know whats us and whats other, and we feel that in our marriages/relationships and at last we feel complete, but mourn how we once were because its so familair?

[winterbaby]

It can be helpful to have a role model such as T. I know myself, I do admire some of the qualities he has and try to incorporate them into my own life. I don't see anything wrong with using T as an example of what you'd like to be or have in your own life. I think that it can be healthy. As far as H goes, you are lucky to have that close relationship. Congratulations! In this day and age. Sometimes it's nice to find your own interests and maybe take a class or do something on your own. Sometimes that's enough to become more "individuated", and it just naturally happens that you feel more of yourself, while in the company of others, and less of a caretaker, as you describe yourself and can carry that over a bit into your marriage. I don't know.

[chaotic13]

Originally Posted by MissCharlotte

I have these connected moments, and I want MORE of them.

ME TOO... And what I am finding on the other side of that is...I am less and less interested in relationships and interactions that DON'T have this.

I am coming round to believing that the deep connection occurs when I can BE with him in the room without dissociating, pulling back, becoming my child self, and we CONNECT.

Miss C, as we've chatted before on this topic, I withdraw and disconnect too but for me..I don't think my ego states or inner children take over or leave. I don't totally "dissociate". Disconnect or distance myself is a better word to describe what happens to me. In my T relationship...it seems like the deeper connections and feeling of deeper understanding and real empathy occur more when I am able to Be with ME and her at the same time.

IDK, I'm starting to think..the potential for that deeper connection is always there, with her, with my bodyworker, maybe even with H. I just need to stop judging and being so uncomfortable and unaccepting of the different aspects (ego states) floating around inside.

IDK, certainly the person you are interacting with has to be open and also trying to connect on a deeper level with you too, but I think the scarity of these interactions is because of me.

As T says, it's the true intimacy that I am afraid of--

Yes! Me too. I just really still, for whatever reason predominately believe that I am different, that the issues and emotions presented by my inner states are abnormal, wrong, evil, not consistent with what the other person feels towards me...and I hide.

[Claire89-2]

Hi from Claire. I found you here and I'm glad. Do you want me to call you Echoes or your name? Do I write where I'm writing or under the message. You'll have to show me how this work.

- Claire

Originally Posted by ECHOES

Yet you have been separate all along. The awareness of separateness can be distressing sometimes, freeing other times. Being separate just 'is'.

And you can be, MissC. You are far more like T now than when you began, don't you think...as you have internalized so much of him.

[ECHOES]

Hi Claire,
Welcome to PC!

I sent a private message to you today before I saw this post. I will look for a reply there.

I'm glad, too

[ECHOES]

Originally Posted by MissC

our desire to care for each other diminishes self growth.

I'm just noticing this part of your original post and I'm wondering what you mean. Since I have never been married or even within shouting range...I'm not able to understand how having a desire to care for each other would diminish rather than encourage self growth.

[MissCharlotte]

Echoes,
What I mean is that we protect each other to the point where we become enmeshed which is okay sometimes but at times I would like to be myself. Does that make any sense?

[ECHOES]

Yes it does. You would like to be yourself and your self--your separate self. With T. With H. With everyone