[zooropa]

ok, some of you may recall I asked my T a couple weeks ago about having biweekly sessions, thinking this might really help me cope when we are doing trauma work and so many things come up in the days afterwards.

She said she thought it was a good idea, that she had to check on the funding but that it shouldn't be a problem. Then I never heard anything about it.

So I called her today after confirming w/my case manager that T hadn't called them to check on the funding for biweekly sessions. It was...awkward? I just told her "I'm calling to remind you that you were going to check with ____ about me coming in twice a week?" and she said "Oh yeah!! Yeah, right. Do you have their number? I'll call them right now."

So I gave her the number and she said she'd let me know when I see her on Mon if she has found anything out yet. I feel like my T needs a personal assistant or something, seriously, she is constantly forgetting stuff. :rollyeyes:

At the same time, I'm glad I'm learning to speak up and ask for what I need, instead of expecting her to just automatically KNOW what I need and to provide it. Of course I'd like to think she thinks of me often outside of session and would never forget something important like that, but it's nice to be reminded of reality every now and then

I feel good about calling her, though, because the way we are doing T right now isn't working out so great for me, and instead of expecting her to know that and be motivated to fix it, I can empower myself by lighting the fire under her ***** when I need to.

GOOD for you, zoo!! Learning to ask for what I need has been one of the most empowering things that has come out of my therapy.

As for going twice a week...I think that seeing T twice a week actually made the trauma stuff POSSIBLE for me. I'm honestly not sure I could have done it otherwise. I'm about to go down to once a week for the first time in 2 1/2 years, but I think I'm ready. I think twice a week will be really helpful for working through the trauma stuff for you.

good work, zooey

[Kiya]

agreed! good to know that you can and have that ability to do! yay you for being assertive to get needs met!

all right zooey!!! it isn't always easy to ask for what we need especially when we've been trained to think we shouldn't.

[darkrunner]

WOW! You sound so strong and confident. I'm very impressed.
And glad for you!

I'm loving what you said here:

I feel good about calling her, though, because the way we are doing T right now isn't working out so great for me, and instead of expecting her to know that and be motivated to fix it, I can empower myself by lighting the fire under her ***** when I need to.

I'm finding that I also amd taking a more active approach to determing the direction of my therapy. And it is mostly because of what I've learned here because otherwise, the it would have never occurred to me to do so!

Thank you for sharing this, Zooropa, because your empowerment and assertiveness is so encouraging to me.

[zooropa]

Just an update to this, my T called me a couple of nights ago and said that she didn't know what I had in mind for meeting twice a week, and that doing so would be "unusual". I know from my experience here on PC that that's not the case, so I'm kind of

She did mention doing 90 min trauma sessions instead of 60 min ones, which I guess would help but my thought about meeting twice a week was to help me be able to process what comes up in the hours and days after we do a heavy trauma session.

So, I'm feeling kind of triggered in my usual abandonment/rejection way. I'm wondering if you guys can help me maybe think of how to explain to my T why I think twice weekly sessions is a good idea? I feel like maybe I just haven't explained it to her well enough. But mostly I feel like she just doesn't want to see me that often.

[Kiya]

yipes!
fortunately, you just said it: meeting twice a week was to help me be able to process what comes up in the hours and days after we do a heavy trauma session.

be strong! tell her that!!! sorry she said that. sometimes it seems Ts say the strangest things at the strangest moments. =(

((((((((Zoo)))))))))))

[sittingatwatersedge]

I have recent data on this (being the nosey parker I am). My T has many clients; most of them she sees every 2 wks, some weekly, but never 2x. I guess the policies vary widely from person to person.

(((((((((((((((((( zoo )))))))))))))))))))) trauma work is so hard. Please be extra gentle with yourself.
if it helps, remember that the END of the telling is a goal really worth reaching - in your own time of course.

The only time I ever see my t more than once a week is when I'm in a crisis, and that is usually at his insistance. You two just need to talk about it and figure out what will work best. Good luck to you.

[TayQuincy]

I think twice a week is considered unusual. I think the standard is once a week. But my first T saw me twice a week for 5 years! I have to say though, it was not better at all. I lived immersed in therapy (and pain) and the few days in between seemed longer than the two weeks in between now (i now have therapy every two weeks). Since your T is asking why you think you need twice a week, tell her just what you said here. And try not to jump to conclusions that she doesn't want to see you more often...it could be the insurance company is asking her to justify it and maybe giving her a hard time. I don't think most insurance companies will pay for more than once a week unless the T insists that it is medically necessary. Also, i think it can create dependency and that could become an issue.

[Sannah]

Is this T really into the DBT program and protocol and doesn't have training beyond that?

[zooropa]

Originally Posted by Sannah

Is this T really into the DBT program and protocol and doesn't have training beyond that?

she definitely has training beyond DBT, she's been a T for 20 years and worked in crisis management/community mental health for a long time before she got the DBT training and went into private practice.

but is she really into the DBT program? definitely. And meeting more than once a week isn't outside the DBT parameters, Linehan even suggests in her book that it can be useful at times.

I do wonder if my T doesn't have the same concern about dependency that tayquincy mentioned.

I'm just going to have to wait and talk to her about it more on Monday, maybe between now and then I can figure out what I want to say.

Originally Posted by TayQuincy

Also, i think it can create dependency and that could become an issue.

I'm not sure that "dependency" on our T's while we're doing the hard, hard trauma work is a bad thing. I know that I have NEVER been able to depend on anyone to be there for me, to take care of me, to make sure I am okay. Letting myself depend on T has been so, SO healing for me. If he wasn't open and willing to let me be dependent on him for a while, I honestly don't know if I could have done the work I've done.

Now that we're on the other side of the trauma stuff, I am learning to lean more on people outside of therapy. Having the experience of being allowed to lean so heavily on T has made me feel safe and supported enough to start to allow myself to truly connect with people outside of therapy. I know now that I CAN allow myself to depend on other people.

For me, I think it's like a pendulum. I spent my life being completely, 100% independent, never asking for help, never expecting to be loved. T let the pendulum swing to me be dependent for as long as I needed to. And now the pendulum is settling in the middle, at "interdependence" with people OUTSIDE of therapy, which is how we are supposed to be...depending on one another, helping each other, believing that we are worth connecting with, and being willing to connect with others.

I am moving towards being much less dependent on T. It is a transition, and transitions are hard, but it feels right. Because I allowed myself to depend on T for as long as I needed to , I don't NEED to in the same way anymore. If T hadn't been so open to my dependence, I don't think I would be where I'm at in my healing right now.

This is just *my* experience, and I know it's not right for everyone. But I just want to show that being dependent is not always a bad thing. Not at all.

hi zoo-

i am sorry that your T is changing her mind. i dont think it is that unusual for a T to see someone 2x per week.

my new T suggested seeing me 2x or more per week and i am just starting in the relationship, so we are not in the trauma work stage or anywhere near it.
she said that going 2x per week can help keep the connection and also provide support so if something upsetting does happen, the extra sessions are there to help deal with everything so it doesnt fester for lots of days!

and i know with her its not a scam about getting alot of money, because she doesnt take that much from me...she could make more with another client.

i really dont get the DBT thing especially when the T doesnt take the calls like that is part of the protocol and now changing her mind.
are you sure this is what you want....? i feel bad for you, it seems rather harsh.

[TayQuincy]

Originally Posted by treehouse

I'm not sure that "dependency" on our T's while we're doing the hard, hard trauma work is a bad thing. I know that I have NEVER been able to depend on anyone to be there for me, to take care of me, to make sure I am okay. Letting myself depend on T has been so, SO healing for me. If he wasn't open and willing to let me be dependent on him for a while, I honestly don't know if I could have done the work I've done.

Now that we're on the other side of the trauma stuff, I am learning to lean more on people outside of therapy. Having the experience of being allowed to lean so heavily on T has made me feel safe and supported enough to start to allow myself to truly connect with people outside of therapy. I know now that I CAN allow myself to depend on other people.

For me, I think it's like a pendulum. I spent my life being completely, 100% independent, never asking for help, never expecting to be loved. T let the pendulum swing to me be dependent for as long as I needed to. And now the pendulum is settling in the middle, at "interdependence" with people OUTSIDE of therapy, which is how we are supposed to be...depending on one another, helping each other, believing that we are worth connecting with, and being willing to connect with others.

I am moving towards being much less dependent on T. It is a transition, and transitions are hard, but it feels right. Because I allowed myself to depend on T for as long as I needed to , I don't NEED to in the same way anymore. If T hadn't been so open to my dependence, I don't think I would be where I'm at in my healing right now.

This is just *my* experience, and I know it's not right for everyone. But I just want to show that being dependent is not always a bad thing. Not at all.

Tree, there are various levels of dependency. In my experience, it's a slippery slope if a therapist allows a patient to become too dependent. I think that is why many Ts are careful, especially with certain patients (BPD) who have a tendency to want to merge and end up losing their own sense of identity completely. My T is always there when I need her and that has been extremely helpful since most of my childhood was spent on my own and not having anyone there for me. so she is there. But she doesn't take care of me. Tree, you always have something to say whenever i comment about dependency, so i wonder if you are sensitive about this subject, you seem to be defensive.

I had a T for years who allowed me to become overly dependent. She had good intentions and cared a great deal about me, but she went down the slippery slope with me and it was very painful when she decided she had to change the way she did therapy. She said we had become too enmeshed. Completely decided no physical contact after years. I was devastated! No hugs or holding..nothing. Sometimes you don't realize how bad it gets until something is forced to change. Tree, I've been in the situation. Ts are supposed to be helping you to help yourself, allowing for some dependency, but careful not to go too far. Also, i was never able to work through any trauma as long as i was overly dependent...I became helpless. Needed T to deal with everything that came up. Couldn't cope alone with the feelings. Self-harmed, took pills to cope with the hard feelings. That didn't help. My current T knows that what we want isn't always what we need. I have worked through nearly all of my trauma and she has been there right beside me, but when i go home, i can take care of myself, i have the skills. If I need T, I can call her anytime and she will call back and we will talk for a few minutes. I feel a strong connection with her in a healthy way. We are walking side by side in this journey, not merged into one.

And Zoo, i just read that sometimes in DBT it is preferable to have twice weekly sessions. I think it depends on the person. I think therapists have to be careful about dependency concerns and find a balance where the patients get what they need while not getting too dependent.

Originally Posted by TayQuincy

Tree, you always have something to say whenever i comment about dependency, so i wonder if you are sensitive about this subject, you seem to be defensive.

I'm really sorry if I seemed defensive - I don't FEEL defensive, really.

I guess dependency is something I really had to work through in my therapy, and I was thinking of people who might be reading here who are struggling with that. I just wanted to share my thought that sometimes depending on someone can be good, and healing. That's all.

Originally Posted by TayQuincy

She said we had become too enmeshed

Tay, maybe I am being sensitive and defensive about THIS, but I feel like maybe you are using my own words "against" me. If I'm wrong about how I'm reading this, I apologize.

I jumped to some conclusions about my T changing how he does therapy with me, and it turns out I was mistaken. Luckily, it seems that I am naturally becoming less dependent on T as I heal, and we are both comfortable with letting that happen in the gentle, organic way that it's happening.

I know it is very hard to "know" what it's like for someone else in their therapy, so I think it's important that we all be gentle with each other here. We ALL struggle, and we are all working hard to heal.

[mobius]

Ack, that's a weird response, to say that going to twice a week would be "unusual." I'm sorry that you're left holding on to this without any real understanding of what's going on. Seemed like in your update you had a great rationale for doing twice weekly.

[TayQuincy]

**********

[Kiya]

((((((((((((Zoo))))))))))))
How are things now? Have you had anymore contact with T about this? It really isn't unusual to go to twice a week.

((((((((((zoo))))))))))))

I'm sorry if I knocked your thread off track.

I hope you are able to get what you need from your T, whether it's more consistent contact between sessions, longer sessions, or two sessions a week. You're doing a REALLY good job of advocating for yourself.

[zooropa]

thanks for the responses, really.
I'm just letting it go, I guess. It was really REALLY hard for me to ask my T about seeing her more often in the first place. It has been hard for me to ask for anything, really, in therapy, because of the fear of rejection. So now that I've asked her, and her initial response was positive but then she seems to have changed her mind, I doubt I will be able to ask her again or keep pushing it.

I guess it depends on how I feel on Monday, but I'm going through some crap right now and I'm pretty down, and not looking forward to seeing her on Monday because I really need to talk about what's going on in my life but I can't, we have to do the damn emotion regulation stuff instead. So that sucks. I'm just not feeling confident or strong or safe w/T right now.

(((((((((((((Zoo))))))))))))))))

[TayQuincy]

Originally Posted by zooropa

I guess it depends on how I feel on Monday, but I'm going through some crap right now and I'm pretty down, and not looking forward to seeing her on Monday because I really need to talk about what's going on in my life but I can't, we have to do the damn emotion regulation stuff instead. So that sucks. I'm just not feeling confident or strong or safe w/T right now.

Zoo, I am a big supporter for DBT and have been helped so much by it. But I'm really puzzled by the way your T does DBT. I don't think it's the usual DBT practice to solely focus on learning skills in every session while the stuff in your life is just put on hold. That is why most DBT programs insist that patients have regular therapy with their DBT trained therapist while doing skills training in a separate group. There is usually a skills training group once a week plus therapy once a week. It sounds like since your sui attempt, she has been only doing skills training, and not doing regular therapy. do you have a separate group? If she is it and you are doing just DBT with her, it still should not be solely about skills training completely separate from what is going on with you right now. You can't really have one without the other. I would think you would need to talk about stuff in order to learn how to apply the skills. I can see trauma work being put on hold until you have a better grasp of skills, but you should be able to talk about what is going on in your life. That's just my opinion.

[Perna]

The 90 minute trauma session sounds like the same as twice a week. That's what I use to see my T for (for 9 years), a session back-to-back (actually, 100 minutes but all that depends on how long one's sessions normally are, some people's are only 45 minutes once a week so that could be where the 90 comes from).