Clinging to Unhealthy Relationships

"It's as though a part of me wants to suffer. I don't quite get where i learned this".....

wasn't it like suffering when you were a child and you so wanted the nurturing from your parents and the emotional support BUT it wasn't there?--

so to the child part of your experience that's the way it is supposed to be--suffering.
so wanting love from one and instead being hurt... perhaps that's the lesson you learned-- that it's supposed to hurt in relationships-- it's familiar to your child part of you. If those friends gave you a balanced relationship that would feel strange and unknown-- even though it's a healthy relationship-- the strangeness, unfamiliar just doesn't feel as correct..... one is drawn to the familiar -- NO matter how much it hurts or is destructive. (that's usually why some women keep going to men, in relationships, that hit them-- after growing up in such an enviroment-- it's familiar, it's what they know)

---that's why I chose a man to be with that is emotionally disconnected and has only concern for his goals--- it's what I'm familar with (disconnected father and narcissistic traits- mother)-- even though it hurts like heck-- I stick with it-- it's what I know. (this is what I've learned from therapy... but changing such ingrained ways is so so difficult)

cheers to you in working so hard

fins

Hi Sugahorse,

Wow! I'm so sorry to hear that you've been through something similar! Like you, i was warned about one of my friends before things exploded. My husband warned me that she didn't care about me as much as i thought she did, and that things would end badly -- and i didn't listen. I thought he was completely wrong and was just jealous of my closeness with her. I think the jealousy was definitely there, but he also turned out to be right about her. I wish now i would have listened and never gotten so attached to her. So maybe i should listen to him this time??

If you've experience first-hand that your husband has been right, maybe it's time to listen to him again.
The pain of a stressful relationship, that turns out to be unhealthy for you, is just not worth it.
After the last painful experience, I am very weary of getting too close to people. I don't want to get hurt again. Then it becomes a push-pull, as I so dearly want to be loved and cared for

Alcira,

Thanks for being so honest and letting me know that you struggle with this same issue. I thought i had let these 2 former friends go -- hadn't seen them in a few years. During that whole time, though, the pain was still alive from what happened. Every time i'd think about how they rejected me, it would feel like stab ripping through my heart.

This should be enough warning signs internally for me to resist the urge to renew the friendships now. I can't count how many hours i've cried over how the relationships ended. I cried on and off for years. I had just got to the point where i felt i was moving on and the sadness was going away when i started running into them again, and they invited me back into a relationship. As much as i miss the good times, i'd probably be nuts to take them back into my heart.

Also, while both of them are friendly to me now and seem ready to befriend me again, neither one of them has ever apologized or taken any responsibility for how things turned badly and ended. They act like nothing ever happened now.

What does the fact that neither friend apologized say about their roles in the relationship with you? Are those the kind of friends you really want to have?

Regarding my friends not apologizing. . .

. . .when i look back at all the friends i've had in my life, particularly those relationships where i've been hurt by them, i have to honestly say that "none" of the friends i've had in my life have "ever" apologized for hurting me. So maybe this is why i'm so willing to forgive and don't expect apologies from people.

Is this unusual? I can't recall anybody in my whole life apologizing for hurting me and/or taking responsibility for it. EVER.

So now I'm really curious: PC'ers, do you get (have you gotten) apologies from people who have hurt you before?

My experience is that most people will not and do not apologize or take responsibility when there is a problem in a relationship. . .

Oh wait. . .my husband and my t "have" apologized before for hurting me. But my family and friends have never, ever done so.

OK. . .so i just now remembered 1 other person who has said "I'm Sorry" before. So i guess i spoke too soon when i said nobody ever apologized. But it's still a rare, rare occasion when i have received an apology. On the other hand, i can easily recall at least 4 people I've apologized to just in the last year for saying or doing something that caused hurt feelings. Why can't i find friends who will do the same for me?

My h has told me several times that most people in the world are not like me, they are not as caring, they don't feel as deeply, and are more selfish in general. He says i need to stop expecting other people to act the way that i do because i will always be disappointed.

Are people really that selfish, do you think???

Peaches, I think the people that have hurt me the most have never apologized. I am not sure if it is because they are not caring or they do not believe they have done anything wrong or they simply do not want to admit to me or to themselves that they hurt me.

Do these people know that you felt they have hurt you?

I would use this apoligizing ability as one indicator that someone is a good friend. Remember Peaches that healing includes learning how to choose healthy people to be around.

Hi Sittingatwatersedge,

First, I want to say how sorry i am to hear the way your mom treated you while growing up. I'll bet it hurt and was confusing for you to have mom brush you aside in anger, and then welcome you back later, only to brush you aside once more.

When i read this, i thought about my one former friend. I recall the day she went into the hospital to have breast cancer surgery. I was in a room with her, her grown daughter, and a friend. Somehow, the conversation turned toward her daughter, and my former friend said of her daughter, "She used to be a rotten kid, but she changed, and we're close now." I remember feeling kind of bad for her daughter, and it made me think about how she blamed her daughter for the problems they had in their relationship. If I were to go back to being friends with her, I'm pretty sure she would think the same way about me. . .that our problems were because of my bad attitude and behavior.

There's one other strange thing about this particular former friend. She had a friend before me that she was helping through a divorce. They had a falling out later, and she refused to speak to him anymore. Since this man was friends with her husband also, the two of them continued to be friends. Some months later, my former friend commented to me, "The reason he is hanging around my husband is because he's trying to get closer to me. He wants to be in my life again." It made me kind of wonder how she sees things. She actually thought that all of the time her husband and this guy spent together, and the comraderie between them, was only a cover for trying to get closer to her.

I should have seen these as red flags. I do remember getting a weird feeling when i heard her say those things. But i didn't listen to my gut because at the time she was treating me so well and making me feel really good.

I resurrected this thread because something has happened again with regard to this former very close friend. . .

I was telling my t the other day how bad I still felt that my former friend never returned my poetry that I had shared with her and stored at her house during the time we were close. I had requested the poems back two other times (when our friendship first broke up 9 years ago, and then again about 7 years ago). She never returned them. Some of them had been copies, but some of them were the only originals I had. So anyway, my t suggested recently that if i still wanted the poems back, why not write to her again a very brief note asking her to return them. So I did. I also included a self-addressed and stamped envelope to save her time and effort.

Surprisingly, she returned them. I was really grateful to get them back. But when i opened up the package, on the top, she had placed one of the letters I wrote to her way back in 1998. I wrote it very early in my depression, right after she started wanting to help me with my depression and encouraging me to bond with her. It may have been the first letter I ever wrote to her. Reading my old letter has really triggered me and brought back alot of old grief. This is what my old letter to her said:

Dear E,

With this letter, I entrust you with copies of all the poems I have written from the start of my depressive episode – over 6 weeks ago – to the present time. There is no one else I would want to give them all to. Right now, you are the only person I feel I can share my thoughts and feelings with on such a diverse range of problems and issues, and yet know that you won’t jump to conclusions, judge me, or think I’m hopeless. Even though we have not been friends over a long period of time, I sense that I can trust you with my feelings and that you would never intentionally injure me. I hope you know I will never judge you for the personal decisions you make in your life, whether they be spiritual, professional, or otherwise. I think you are a very special person, and I count it a privilege to have known you thus far. The fact that you are so intelligent and want to use it to benefit others is a quality worthy of imitation. I hope God blesses you greatly for the kindness you show. Love, Peaches

Why would E. return this letter along with my poems? Was she trying to make me feel bad for asking for the poems back? Of all the letters and cards I sent her over the years (dozens), why did she return just this one? Reading it brought up all my grief again. It made me remember how quickly I trusted her, bonded with her, and made myself vulnerable by sharing my deepest thoughts, feelings, and pain. When I started reading some of my poems she sent back, I could not do it. They are so raw, so full of confusion and longing and despair. Over and over in the poems is the same theme: the fear of opening my heart up to anyone, letting them know me, letting myself love them, for fear that they will later reject and abandon me. And that is exactly what ended up happening with E. I loved her so much, I let her all the way in, and even though she knew about my attachment problems and fear of trusting, she always told me she wouldn't abandon me. And yet that is what she finally did.

It has been 9 years now, and I thought I'd finally accepted the loss and let it go. But it has surged up once again in my heart. I know this is one of the biggest reasons I have been with my t for so many years and still have never been able to truly trust her. I am so afraid to believe that if i ever let myself bond with her, that things would ever turn out differently. I am always so primed for signs of rejection, i can't relax. At any hint of it, i am shut down. I guess it was a mistake to contact my old friend and ask for my poems back. I didn't anticipate that it would still be affecting me this way.

My former friend also enclosed a short note, asking me to let her know that I received the poems. Since she sent it registered mail, and I had to sign for it, shouldn't that prove that I received it? Why would she want me to notify her that I did?

I guess I will send her a thank you card, rather than call her. There are so many things I want to tell her, but it is probably not a good idea. A part of me wants to hang on, when I know I need to let go. Until I am sure what to say, I am not writing anything. I see my t today, so we will talk about this.

But I'm just wondering. . .why would she include my old letter? And why ask me to let her know I received the poems if she sent it registered mail?

This is what her short note said:

Peaches, I think there are more poems tucked away in all the cards and letters – it’s going to take some time to go through all of it – still drowning in elder care. Please let me know that you received this. Thank you. E.

I noticed that she didn't use any opening or closing . . .No "dear" Peaches, or "Love" E. In my request to her, I used "Dear E" and "Sincerely, Peaches." So it feels to me like, even though she sent the poems back, her reply was short and rather cold, like she doesn't feel anything for me anymore.

I suspect she included the letter because it apparently came with all the poetry when you gave it to her; she's just returning all that you originally sent perhaps thinking the letter was an important frame of reference for you. Just my guess. I don't think she was making any particular point in sending the letter back other than that.

As far as the note in addition to the registered mail: again, probably just a way to be doubly sure that you received the poems back. Maybe she isn't sure she had all of them since it has been so long and this is a way of assuring that she did send back all you were looking for.

You may be trying to find dark, ulterior motives where there may be none. Just send a quick note saying thanks for returning them, and let it be done.

"We accept the love we think we deserve."

Peaches, I don't know more than I've read here about the back story of these friendships, but a few things stand out to me.

Friendships can be close or distant, and they revolve around different needs based upon the personalities involved. But what adult friendships are not designed to fulfill are childhood needs. That additional emotional pressure distorts friendship.

Friends are equals who choose to affiliate based upon shared interests, mutual enjoyment of personalities, or shared history/experiences. When distorting need comes into play, on one or both parts, the freedom that forms the basis of friendship--the free affiliation--ends.

I don't believe anyone "chooses victimhood." That implies logic and consent and willfullness. I think this is more of an unconscious emotional pull that influences choice and curtails freedom. We develop this need/deficit/pull from our childhood experiences and carry it with us into adulthood until such time as it is fulfilled. Some manage to get that need met in a healthy way through life experiences, a SO, faith, self-knowledge, or therapy.

You said that you feel invisible around other people. I suspect you are not invisible to others, but your unconscious awareness doesn't sense the emotional pull in "healthy" potential friends--you literally don't "see" them--and that translates into you thinking you are invisible to them. So you act in accordance with this felt perception and don't take actions to pursue a friendship with these individuals.

To the degree that you can choose to control your actions, you can influence this pattern. It may very well feel not natural. But testing these new actions within therapy can help them feel less strange over time. Actions are self-reinforcing, and healthy relationships will strengthen your healthy instincts. Over time I think you will see your choices changing less consciously. Your felt "needs" will have neutralized, allowing you to experience more freedom of choice.

It took me a long time to develop normalized expectations of friendships, but as I got better at choosing my friends, and better at controlling my inappropriate expectations of them, I experienced how rewarding friendships free of distorting emotional baggage could be. I could only do this by processing my childhood needs through therapy.

Although I would not consider my relationship with my former T a friendship at this point--or, perhaps some kind of friendship that I don't have a ready label for--it is the absence of any distorted emotional pulls that has allowed the relationship to normalize. It leaves us both free to simply enjoy our connection.

The title drew me in. The quest I am always looking for. The ability to know when a relationship is unhealthy. I'm better at spotting them now. But can only goby my own level of healthiness. Until I reach levels in my own healing I remain. Trying to find resolution.