[ECHOES]

For the longest time I wanted T to be soothing and encouraging and just very mother-like. The longest darn time. In fact, I've been seeing her for 4 years and only about the last 5 months has this fantasy finally dropped away, like awakening from a dream.

But nothing takes it's place.

I felt a strong connection, based on my fantasy. It was all in my head.
There isn't anything there now.
T is just a person who I talk to once a week and who I don't feel connected to. Except that I feel good when I arrive. I feel as if it could be a good place, but that doesn't materialize from there. Yet, I also feel like I'm in a familiar place but with a stranger, or with someone who I'm not 100% sure about. It's been 4 years for crying out loud. Where's the trust that's real (as opposed to the trust that was part of the fantasy).

I wonder if I am just incapable of being a decent human being.
Incapable of being grateful to her for the many little things she does, like returning a call or offering a Friday appt (she doesn't work Friday's) when she is going to be away on another weekday that is my appt day, reducing her fee.

I am a horribly negative person, always dissatisfied, angry, wanting to quit or run away or disappear in some way.

I just don't know how to make therapy any good. Or maybe it just isn't any good for me. Or me for it.

[embracinglife]

Don't give up on it. That's interesting that you say you had this fantasy that is dropping away. Maybe you had unrealistic expectations of therapy. I know I have had those too. It's taken me several years as well to realize what hard work it actually is to heal and get better. But sometimes we do just want to be mothered .

So are you feeling like you aren't benefitting from therapy? Or not benefitting as much as you would like? Do you think you don't need therapy anymore? Or maybe you need to find a different T? Just brainstorming.

[doubtful]

I've been in therapy for seven years with the same great T. My therapy has gone through many phases. For the last year, we've been in a fairly disconnected phase. I hate this phase, but I trust that it's a phase. I must have something to learn from things being this way.

My point is that maybe you're just at a particular moment in therapy that will reveal itself to be helpful or necessary. That kind of perspective helps me when I'm in a rough spot with therapy and need to resolve to continue.

The other thought I have is that, growing up is hard to do. After I grow up a little bit (like giving up one fantasy for reality), I push against that growth for a while. Eventually I integrate the growth and know that me and my life are better for it, but at first even positive change is uncomfortable.

I hope you'll stick with it and cut yourself some slack. From all I can tell, you're great at therapy.

[inbloom]

I can really relate to the dissilusionment left over after the fantasy has faded away. I have been with my T a long time, 15 years, and i have spent a large portion of that time fantasizing about him being my dad, about going back in time and being re-parented by him, about being rescued by him, and on and on. In my head, I made him SO MUCH BIGGER than ANY human being can be, and so, yes, when I am forced to come to terms with the fact that he isn't all those big things, and that he can't ever be....it's like a loss, almost a death of sorts that needs to be mourned.

I totally get the feeling of not really knowing what is left after the fantasy goes. It's almost like the whole relationship needs to be reevaluated. My sense though, is that it is in this place of acceptance of reality, that real healing is able to happen.

I don't believe that you are incapable of appreciating what she DOES give. I just think that it really really takes a lot of practice to shift the focus from the negative (noticing what you don't get), to the positive (noticing what you DO get). It takes a lot of really active focus and learning, and it's hard. Really, really hard.

Try not to be so hard on yourself. Letting go of the fantasy allows you to enter new territory that is scary, and foreign. Give yourself some time to figure out how to work in this place. Keep going.....don't give up!!!

[lastyearisblank]

This sounds very sad Echoes. It must be very hard going back week after week like that. Have you talked to her about this? The hopelessness just sounds like it is reflecting something stalled in your work.

[dinosaurs]

ohh this is such a blah place to be. i have gone through something similar. i had the connection to fantasy t which would bring me comfort. but in a way it was something i used to avoid connecting to real t. when i started to see real t more, it was like fantasy t couldn't coexist and i lost that comfort and it was really hard and sad for me (grieving).

then because i could no longer maintain fantasy t and i was still avoiding connection with real t, i was in this awful middle place, similar to what you describe. and it is a hard place to be. i could see t was working at a connection and i was just incapable of holding on to my side of it. it's like this highlighted how awful i am. subhuman. broken. can't be fixed. don't belong in society.

we've had to do a ton of work on understanding exactly what it is i fear about connections and why. for me there is a deep deep deep fundamental extinential terror. which seems incapable of fixing - like it is who i am. and yet it is probably THE thing i've always needed to work on in t. just taken me 7 years to work up the guts and trust to be able to even look at it.

it's ok to feel angry, dissatisfied, wanting to quit, wanting to run away or wanting to hide. it doesn't make you a bad person. these are probably just ways that you protect yourself from allowing a connection. work on your connection problems in spite of how you feel - this is where true healing lies.

t and i have spent time on looking at what i do to prevent connection. one major way is by not looking at him, so we are working towards making me look. then we'll strip away the next defense and the next one and the next one. by not looking, by being angry, by doing all sorts of things, even though i am telling him all my inner secrets, i am still hiding from him. i am not letting him truly see me. i really think it is all coming down to vulnerability for me. i really liked the link dr muffin put up: http://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown...erability.html

you've replied to me previously and said "being close to someone feels like I will be engulfed by the other, losing myself. "I" would no longer exist." so it seems perfectly natural connecting to someone would be terrifying for you. i am not sure how true this is, but i think it would be easy to get stuck in this phase. because it is how we want to be - holding our defenses up. i suspect that if we didn't work on taking down those defenses, then therapy would naturally progress to another phase, but it may not be a healing step forward. i think that to move forward we need to actively do the hard/terrifying/excruitiating work. which really sucks to be honest. and yet i have found tiny pockets of joy along the way and i can faintly glimpse the treasure that connection may bring.

i also wanted to mention trust. i too thought i had no trust with t but it wasn't quite right. we don't really notice this because it is kind of a backdrop, but we can trust t to be how t usually is. like think how weird it would be if your t suddenly came in dressed in a completely different style, or suddenly changed mannerisms or voice pitch or way or speaking. or suddenly moved the furniture around so the surroundings were unfamiliar. or suddenly had an accent. or suddenly started touching you (or stopped touching you). or a million other things. to a degree, we can trust t to be t. so even though it feels like you don't have any trust in t as person, it's not quite right, there is a degree of trust there. you're trusting t to be who you know her to be. i know there are much higher levels of trust possible, but i guess this is a start you know?

anyway, sorry this became a novel. i hope you find something in here you can relate to. take care.

[ECHOES]

There isn't a big enough to send to everyone who responded.
I am amazed when someone can understand where I'm coming from, especially at a time I can't even seem to put many words to it.
What you have given me is so great, so important. Your understanding, your listening, and helping me make sense of it. And the more words, the less I feel like I am a failure or therapy is failing or T is failing. You've given me time to think more and allow myself more room around these feelings, to not just slam the failure stamp on it all and prepare to toss it.

Poor T's look of surprise when I suddenly at the end of the session asked when we would ever get into deeper things after exploring what she thought I wanted to explore. Are you saying that you're disappointed? My answer of "Yes" scared me. But I do think I understand it better now. My disappointment is about her being real and not the fantasy T I think I was wishing for, not only in the session but a phone call between sessions. And I have noticed that I am back to not wanting to connect with anyone, the protective "I don't care" "It doesn't matter" way I stay back and push others back. First I feel really good, strong, capable, independent. Then I get lonely and don't know how to undo what I did. It's like I go too far with it. First everything matters and matters too much, then nothing matters. It reminds me how I have described how anxiety seems to be the flip side to depression; one relieves the other.

So, how to just be. To just be there and present. Not being present, but seeming to, is another defense and a really hard one for me.

I'm tired and this makes sense to me. lol. Probably is rambling to others.
But mostly, I just wanted to tell every single person who responded a realy big and heartfelt thank you!!

[learning1]

Originally Posted by ECHOES

I am amazed when someone can understand where I'm coming from, especially at a time I can't even seem to put many words to it.

I think you're doing that for me, too, a bit, with your post below.

Originally Posted by ECHOES

And I have noticed that I am back to not wanting to connect with anyone, the protective "I don't care" "It doesn't matter" way I stay back and push others back. First I feel really good, strong, capable, independent. Then I get lonely and don't know how to undo what I did. It's like I go too far with it. First everything matters and matters too much, then nothing matters. It reminds me how I have described how anxiety seems to be the flip side to depression; one relieves the other.

So, how to just be. To just be there and present. Not being present, but seeming to, is another defense and a really hard one for me.

I'm tired and this makes sense to me. lol. Probably is rambling to others.

It makes a lot of sense.

[lily99]

I'm right there with you, Echoes

Originally Posted by ECHOES

And I have noticed that I am back to not wanting to connect with anyone, the protective "I don't care" "It doesn't matter" way I stay back and push others back. First I feel really good, strong, capable, independent. Then I get lonely and don't know how to undo what I did. It's like I go too far with it.

Wow, Echoes. Thank you for putting words around this. I do this too, but never really thought about how to name it. Just seeing it written out helps, a lot.

[rainbow8]

ECHOES: I relate to your post very much. I'm going through the same thing right now, sort of. I've always had "fantasy Ts" but they all "shatter my dreams". My T gives me so much that it was/is hard to know the fantasy from the reality. But, the reality has hit me now and then, and now it's hitting me more than ever, like seeing her greet a client after me, hearing her mention a friend, knowing she's going on vacation again. Why would those things be okay if it were MY friend, not hers, etc?

I feel the fantasy fading away too. What is left? A stranger who I pay to care about me each week? Not exactly. She tells me how much she likes me and cares about me. But it's not the same. The fantasy T was of course so much better!! We have to grieve for having to give up that fantasy. It hurts terribly, doesn't it?

But the connection IS still there, it's just different. I think you will find it again. Four years is a long time. Something is there, but not the fantasy. It's not "all or nothing", black or white, though I'm having a hard time grasping that concept too. The REAL T is just a person like you and me. She's not going to magically fix us. SHE isn't the SOLUTION; she can just help us find it. You don't know how much it hurts to type that even though I did it in my thread too. I thought T was the answer. I think of her and still want her to be. It's incredibly hard to give up the fantasy.

[learning1]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I feel the fantasy fading away too. What is left? A stranger who I pay to care about me each week? Not exactly. She tells me how much she likes me and cares about me. But it's not the same. The fantasy T was of course so much better!! We have to grieve for having to give up that fantasy. It hurts terribly, doesn't it?

But the connection IS still there, it's just different. I think you will find it again. Four years is a long time. Something is there, but not the fantasy. It's not "all or nothing", black or white, though I'm having a hard time grasping that concept too. The REAL T is just a person like you and me. She's not going to magically fix us. SHE isn't the SOLUTION; she can just help us find it. You don't know how much it hurts to type that even though I did it in my thread too. I thought T was the answer. I think of her and still want her to be. It's incredibly hard to give up the fantasy.

This thread, and your post Rainbow, are really thought provoking. I think that I'm searching around for my fantasy t... and maybe I need to keep doing that, go through what you all are going through.

[Sannah]

Great work Rainbow! I think that you can now build a relationship based on reality. Relationships are built and they take time. What you had with her was built on fantasy and now you have healed enough to realize this and determined that it isn't what you want.