Home Menu

Menu


Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old Apr 16, 2011, 10:55 PM
granite1's Avatar
granite1 granite1 is offline
running with scissors
 
Member Since: Aug 2009
Location: in my head
Posts: 15,961
i am trying to write a letter to my T to let her know how i felt when she seemed to get so frustrated with me when i told her i never trusted anyone.it isnt easy at all.i cant seem to do it.i have no idea how to even start it.i want to say sorry about frustrating her so much but i really dont remember ever trusting anyone.i'm scared if i give it to her all she will do is say she doesnt believe me and that will send me into a total panic.do you think i should just leave it alone and just agree to disagree and let it be what it is because i dont know what to say to her about it.
__________________
BEHAVIORS ARE EASY WORDS ARE NOT

Dx, HUMAN
Rx, no medication for that

advertisement
  #2  
Old Apr 16, 2011, 11:01 PM
learning1 learning1 is offline
Grand Poohbah
 
Member Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,872
I think it's a great idea that you're trying to write the letter and explain how you felt Granite . I think your t should understand.
Thanks for this!
granite1
  #3  
Old Apr 17, 2011, 12:00 AM
granite1's Avatar
granite1 granite1 is offline
running with scissors
 
Member Since: Aug 2009
Location: in my head
Posts: 15,961
this is all i have for the moment

I wanted to first say I am sorry for getting you so frustrated over the trust thing. Maybe we will just have to agree to disagree on this. It is what it is and is probably best just left alone. I cannot remember ever trusting anyone as a kid. In fact I think in some strange way I trust more now than I ever did at 5 years old. Not that I trust people all that much now. I know I have always hated people, even at 5.
You spoke of babies having no choice but to trust. I don’t see being forced to be dependent on a parent or guardian as any form of trust. I may have been dependant but I don’t have to like it. The idea of that woman ever taking care of me in any way just makes me sick. The idea of her having to touch me for any reason makes my skin crawl, it’s disgusting. I can’t stand thinking about it. Knowing she hated every minute of anything she ever had to do for me and hated me for it. So she fed me. How hard could it have been to shove a bottle in my face to shut me up? Wow I was so wrong, I guess I was oozing trust all over the place, after all this undying love, who wouldn’t?

if you want ill post more as i write.please let me know what you think
__________________
BEHAVIORS ARE EASY WORDS ARE NOT

Dx, HUMAN
Rx, no medication for that

Last edited by granite1; Apr 17, 2011 at 12:15 AM.
Thanks for this!
Liam Grey, PTSDlovemycats, SpiritRunner
  #4  
Old Apr 17, 2011, 01:04 AM
PTSDlovemycats's Avatar
PTSDlovemycats PTSDlovemycats is offline
Grand Magnate
 
Member Since: Dec 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,401
Quote:
Originally Posted by granite1 View Post
if you want ill post more as i write.please let me know what you think
Granite that is a great start. Very honest and broave of you! Keep up the good work. Share more if you are comfortable with it.
Thanks for this!
granite1
  #5  
Old Apr 17, 2011, 04:10 AM
Can't Stop Crying's Avatar
Can't Stop Crying Can't Stop Crying is offline
Elder
 
Member Since: Jan 2011
Location: missing
Posts: 6,693
I think that is an awesome letter and very articulate...god for you for expressing those feelings...I hope your T begins to understand where you're coming from!
__________________
trying to let my T know how it felt

Children's talent to endure stems from their ignorance of alternatives.
~ Maya Angelou


Thank you SadNEmpty for my avatar and signature.
Thanks for this!
granite1
  #6  
Old Apr 17, 2011, 05:58 AM
WikidPissah's Avatar
WikidPissah WikidPissah is offline
Euphie Queen
 
Member Since: Jul 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 10,718
good work Granite, your using words (even if they are on paper they're still words) xoxo
__________________
never mind...
Thanks for this!
granite1
  #7  
Old Apr 17, 2011, 06:47 AM
Splintered's Avatar
Splintered Splintered is offline
Member
 
Member Since: Mar 2011
Location: England
Posts: 97
I think your letter sounds really good so far. I hope you and your t don't just 'agree to disagree' on this because it sounds like it's important that she understands your point of view and is on your side. It doesn't sound to me like something 'best just left alone'. To me it makes sense that depending on someone for survival doesn't automatically equal trust. Maybe your t has never really properly thought about it before - I think your letter might give her something to think about.
Thanks for this!
granite1
  #8  
Old Apr 17, 2011, 07:12 AM
karebear1's Avatar
karebear1 karebear1 is offline
Poohbah
 
Member Since: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,468
Definetly a great start to letting her now exactly where you are coming from on this issue. Don't change anything you've got down- it's excellent! Keep working on it granite. I know I sent an email to my T a couple of weeks ago that took me at least 5 hours to put together. I don't think it's unusual at all to have a hard time trying to write your thoughts on paper- especially when you are not much of a talker. I'm proud of you!
Thanks for this!
granite1
  #9  
Old Apr 17, 2011, 07:55 AM
SpiritRunner's Avatar
SpiritRunner SpiritRunner is offline
Magnate
 
Member Since: Dec 2010
Location: in my skin and soul
Posts: 2,984
granite, a great start, honest and clear! but I hope you don't just 'leave it alone, agree to disagree'....I hope you and T can come to place of truly understanding each other, you to understand what she meant and she to understand what you feel/know to be the truth of your reality, even as a baby. Maybe your letter will help her understand you better and understand how you feel about trust in your life...and you 2 can be more on the same page!
I think it's a good insight to say that maybe you trust more now than when you were 5.....that means that you are growing in trust now! I think you are showing trust in us to share that letter and I feel like it's a honor that you have shown that trust. I think T will see it as you showing trust to give her that letter and that she will be honored, too!
Thanks for this!
granite1
  #10  
Old Apr 17, 2011, 09:36 AM
Sweetlove's Avatar
Sweetlove Sweetlove is offline
Veteran Member
 
Member Since: Dec 2010
Location: Massachusettes
Posts: 493
That's a great start Granite, very very well written!
__________________
"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel."
- Maya Angelou

"If you get a chance, take it; if it changes your life, let it. Nobody said that it would be easy, they just promised it would be worth it."
Thanks for this!
granite1
  #11  
Old Apr 17, 2011, 09:51 AM
anilam's Avatar
anilam anilam is offline
Grand Poohbah
 
Member Since: Mar 2011
Location: Middle of Nowhere
Posts: 1,806
Granite- nice letter, really.
Ive read your previous post as well and was not sure about writing my opinion.
But here it goes...
I think children are born trusting. They don't know any better. As you have said, they are dependant on others. They must trust that the care provider will do what is best for them. I highly doubt you were born any different. It is in human nature, even grown ppl can behave like that to ensure their survival (Stockholm syndrome).
We see our child self through adults eyes. That can cause problems. I think what your T is trying to do, is make you see yourself as the child you were. It is an important step in therapy.
Still I think you two should discuss this more. Letter is always a great way to communicate our feelings and emotions.
Thanks for this!
granite1
  #12  
Old Apr 17, 2011, 11:05 AM
ECHOES's Avatar
ECHOES ECHOES is offline
Legendary
 
Member Since: Aug 2007
Location: West of Tampa Bay, East of the Gulf of Mexico
Posts: 14,354
It seems to me that her response is not about not believing you, but about enlightening you to how babies and children survive. They cannot survive on their own, so they must trust to survive.

Having to trust a primary caregiver who is not nurturing and loving and protecting forms the pathological or 'sick' attachment that causes problems in all relationships, because all relationships need trust and we form attachments. You can imagine that an infant or child who must trust to survive, but for whom that trust relationship is not nurturing or loving or even kind, gets a confusing picture of relationships. When the primary caregiver is unreliable, unpredictable, unTRUSTworthy, the attachment is insecure or disorganized. The infant or child trusts only when necessary (for food, etc) and retreats at all other times.
We are amazing creatures who understand more than we can imagine, even pre-verbally.

Does this make sense?
Thanks for this!
granite1
  #13  
Old Apr 17, 2011, 11:19 AM
sunrise's Avatar
sunrise sunrise is offline
Legendary
 
Member Since: Jan 2007
Location: U.S.
Posts: 10,383
Quote:
Originally Posted by granite1 View Post
i am trying to write a letter to my T to let her know how i felt when she seemed to get so frustrated with me when i told her i never trusted anyone... i want to say sorry about frustrating her so much but i really dont remember ever trusting anyone.i'm scared if i give it to her all she will do is say she doesnt believe me and that will send me into a total panic.do you think i should just leave it alone and just agree to disagree and let it be what it is because i dont know what to say to her about it.
Are you sure there is disagreement? You say you have never trusted anyone--has your T said that is not true? You speculated above that she might not believe you. But maybe she will! Please don't let your imagined conversation with your T stop you from talking to her. I think it's important that you feel your T was frustrated with you for expressing your truth. I wonder if she knows you perceive her as frustrated? I think it is important to tell her that so she learns how you see her and that that is scary for you. She might need to modulate her behavior if she doesn't want to come across as frustrated, or communicate more clearly in words that she is not frustrated if she indeed is not. And if she is frustrated, it would be helpful to you to learn why and also to have her own up to that. That lets you trust your perceptions more to have her validate them (providing they were true, of course).
__________________
"Therapists are experts at developing therapeutic relationships."
Thanks for this!
granite1
  #14  
Old Apr 17, 2011, 06:39 PM
Liam Grey Liam Grey is offline
Member
 
Member Since: Jan 2011
Posts: 231
I think you have done a good job in writing that letter.
Thanks for this!
granite1
  #15  
Old Apr 18, 2011, 12:32 AM
rainbow8's Avatar
rainbow8 rainbow8 is offline
Legendary
 
Member Since: Mar 2009
Location: US
Posts: 13,284
granite, I too liked your letter and think it's very important to make it clear to your T how you felt in the session, both about trusting, and about her feeling frustrated with you. I agree with sunrise that you need to tell her so she can give you feedback about whether she really was frustrated with you or was it just your perception that she was.
Thanks for this!
granite1
  #16  
Old Apr 20, 2011, 08:31 AM
granite1's Avatar
granite1 granite1 is offline
running with scissors
 
Member Since: Aug 2009
Location: in my head
Posts: 15,961
OMGoodness i went to bed lastnight thnking about this and also woke up thismorning thinking about this and woke up a few times in between thinking about this.it has really shook me up and seems to be talking over.i dont understand how something so seemingly simple as the concept of a child needing to trust is sending me into such a tail spin.usually it isnt something i think about but now it seems to be something i am thinking about and experiancing on every level of my being.and i am really trying but i dont think i can handle it.i want to,i really do. i want it to just go away but it has been a while now sence i have SI and i dont want to get to that point.i keep getting pictures in my head of the mother and i hate it it is making me sick and feeling disgusting.so anggry at myself and so so angry in generaland did i mention making my skin crawl.i want these thoughts to go away.i wish i could say better how it is making me feel.not only my thoughts but it is like it is taking over my body.the idea of her touching me.its like when i think of the mother touching me it makes my skin crawlit's like i can feel it.my body tenses up big time i hate how all this is making me feel.why am i feeling all this so strong i just dont really understand.

my T brought all this up i didnt i never would.she asked questions about my trust and didnt accept the answers i gave.why put this stuff in my head about me trusting as a baby or small child.why make me feel this way and then go on vacation.i want to tell her how angry i am at her for this but know i wont and wont even bring it up next time i see her i dont think i will even give her this letter i wrote.i have talked myself right out of this .because she seems so angry and frustrated at me for saying i didnt ever trust anyone.and when she said so frustratedly "every one trusts at some point just how far do we ahve to go back,it made me feel like she didnt want to do that at all.go that far back.i mean thats ok with me and it kind of upsets me that she thinks that i would want her to do this.NOPE I DONT.i dont want her to be so frustrated with me.it scares me and that doesnt help with the not being able to speak.

sorry about this being so long.but with all this said i want this stuff out of my head and i dont know how to get rid of it to let it go.cant you imagine what it must be like for a baby or child being forced to be cared for by someone who hate them,and everything they had to do to care for them.to have to feed it and clean it.you cant help but know that it had to atleast feel the hate radiating from the care taker.in it's tough and everything.yuck,grrr,skin crawling,memories.
__________________
BEHAVIORS ARE EASY WORDS ARE NOT

Dx, HUMAN
Rx, no medication for that
  #17  
Old Apr 20, 2011, 08:36 AM
Sannah's Avatar
Sannah Sannah is offline
Legendary
 
Member Since: Jul 2008
Posts: 19,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by granite1 View Post
cant you imagine what it must be like for a baby or child being forced to be cared for by someone who hate them,and everything they had to do to care for them.to have to feed it and clean it.you cant help but know that it had to atleast feel the hate radiating from the care taker.in it's tough and everything.yuck,grrr,skin crawling,memories.


Granite, I hear you saying that you want these memories to go away but this is what therapy is about. It is about recalling all of your thoughts and feelings that you haven't faced, accepted, analyzed, expressed and then let go. This is the processing and this is what will set you free. Keeping this stuff stuffed down is what is driving you crazy.
__________________
Don't let your problems or the world make you feel small. Stretch your arms out over your head. Take a deep breathe. Tell yourself that you are big. You are big, not small. You always have space, you are not trapped........

I'm an ISFJ
Thanks for this!
granite1
  #18  
Old Apr 20, 2011, 09:03 AM
granite1's Avatar
granite1 granite1 is offline
running with scissors
 
Member Since: Aug 2009
Location: in my head
Posts: 15,961
i dont know i am having a real hard time with this.i know a baby can learn to to trust how could it .i never touched my son if i was angry or anything.i think a baby who is always toughted by someone who hates them and is angry can feel this in every part of its body and learns to dilike it and not welcome the way it feels and its body can respond with stress and tention and in turn learns not to like it or the person who is making it feel this way or people in general.am i wrong ? i can still feel these feelings in my body even today when i think about it
__________________
BEHAVIORS ARE EASY WORDS ARE NOT

Dx, HUMAN
Rx, no medication for that
  #19  
Old Apr 20, 2011, 09:39 AM
sittingatwatersedge sittingatwatersedge is offline
- - -
 
Member Since: Nov 2008
Posts: 15,166
Quote:
Originally Posted by granite1 View Post
......i dont understand how something so seemingly simple as the concept of a child needing to trust is sending me into such a tail spin......
dear Granite this is so hard

a child does need to trust; a child is very much aware of its own inability to care for itself, its limitations in size and strength and understanding etc. So it knows that to survive, it needs the support and protection of another.

That doesn't mean that the child does trust; BUT to survive, the child knows that it has to get that support and protection no matter what the cost.
This can mean that the child will bend the facts, however far they have to be bent, in order to be able to say to itself, I am supported, I am protected. Bending can be in the form of colossal denial, ignoring bad things that happen, or making excuses for the caregiver(s), or even... when the ugly facts can't be denied, turning the blame for them onto oneself... which is toxic and lasting.

Sometimes I don't express myself very well, do you understand what I am trying to say?
Thanks for this!
granite1
  #20  
Old Apr 20, 2011, 10:06 AM
SpiritRunner's Avatar
SpiritRunner SpiritRunner is offline
Magnate
 
Member Since: Dec 2010
Location: in my skin and soul
Posts: 2,984
Quote:
Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge View Post
dear Granite this is so hard

a child does need to trust; a child is very much aware of its own inability to care for itself, its limitations in size and strength and understanding etc. So it knows that to survive, it needs the support and protection of another.

That doesn't mean that the child does trust; BUT to survive, the child knows that it has to get that support and protection no matter what the cost.
This can mean that the child will bend the facts, however far they have to be bent, in order to be able to say to itself, I am supported, I am protected. Bending can be in the form of colossal denial, ignoring bad things that happen, or making excuses for the caregiver(s), or even... when the ugly facts can't be denied, turning the blame for them onto oneself... which is toxic and lasting.

Sometimes I don't express myself very well, do you understand what I am trying to say?
this makes sense to me, sawe, and I think it's a deep thought/insight.....it's not trust, per se, but simple survival and maybe even a sort of unwilling dependency, dependent but without trust.....without the love and affection along with the caretaking, how can there be a true, deep trust given to the caretaker? I don't know......I think babies realize when the care given them is given with love and that helps them form good trust/dependency/secure attachment.....
Thanks for this!
granite1, Sannah
  #21  
Old Apr 20, 2011, 10:08 AM
egoalien's Avatar
egoalien egoalien is offline
Member
 
Member Since: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by granite1 View Post
but with all this said i want this stuff out of my head and i dont know how to get rid of it to let it go.cant you imagine what it must be like for a baby or child being forced to be cared for by someone who hate them,and everything they had to do to care for them.to have to feed it and clean it.you cant help but know that it had to atleast feel the hate radiating from the care taker.in it's tough and everything.yuck,grrr,skin crawling,memories.
I can just feel the intensity of your feelings from your writings. I am thinking though, is there another angle that, at the moment, you are unable to access. Like if you were thinking of this being someone else, some other baby/child than you... Would you be able to feel more compassion and pity rather than horror and anger? You seem to so blame the child if she had been so stupid as to feel the need to trust to survive.

I don't think a small child has the level of consciousness like we adults do, nor feels on the same level. S/he does not make decisions to eg 'trust' the same way as we do. A lot of stuff is instinct, and instinct to survive is very strong in living being. If someone nasty is the only one providing any 'care' or only one around, a smart child will have to go with that. It's not a shame, it's just how things are.

I hope you can find a different way to look at this. I don't think a child growing in conditions like that should be blamed they trusted the only object they had available to trust, however bad. It's a sign of resilience not stupidity. I hope you can find compassion for that child.
Thanks for this!
granite1, sittingatwatersedge
  #22  
Old Apr 20, 2011, 10:39 AM
Sannah's Avatar
Sannah Sannah is offline
Legendary
 
Member Since: Jul 2008
Posts: 19,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by granite1 View Post
i think a baby who is always toughted by someone who hates them and is angry can feel this in every part of its body and learns to dilike it and not welcome the way it feels and its body can respond with stress and tention and in turn learns not to like it or the person who is making it feel this way or people in general.

i can still feel these feelings in my body even today when i think about it
Exactly granite! This was your experience and it needs to be validated.
__________________
Don't let your problems or the world make you feel small. Stretch your arms out over your head. Take a deep breathe. Tell yourself that you are big. You are big, not small. You always have space, you are not trapped........

I'm an ISFJ
Thanks for this!
granite1
  #23  
Old Apr 21, 2011, 07:20 AM
granite1's Avatar
granite1 granite1 is offline
running with scissors
 
Member Since: Aug 2009
Location: in my head
Posts: 15,961
i am just ready for my T to come back now.her first vacation was ok but now i have really had enough i hate sitting with all these thoughts i hate that she said all this stuff and then left.and monday when she is back ill go into her office and not say anything about what i went through and it will be ok because she is back and all is right again
__________________
BEHAVIORS ARE EASY WORDS ARE NOT

Dx, HUMAN
Rx, no medication for that
  #24  
Old Apr 21, 2011, 07:35 AM
granite1's Avatar
granite1 granite1 is offline
running with scissors
 
Member Since: Aug 2009
Location: in my head
Posts: 15,961
i want her backi realy need her here

__________________
BEHAVIORS ARE EASY WORDS ARE NOT

Dx, HUMAN
Rx, no medication for that
  #25  
Old Apr 21, 2011, 08:31 AM
SpiritRunner's Avatar
SpiritRunner SpiritRunner is offline
Magnate
 
Member Since: Dec 2010
Location: in my skin and soul
Posts: 2,984
(((((((((((((granite))))))))))))
Thanks for this!
granite1
Reply
Views: 1877

attentionThis is an old thread. You probably should not post your reply to it, as the original poster is unlikely to see it.




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:20 PM.
Powered by vBulletin® — Copyright © 2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.




 

My Support Forums

My Support Forums is the online community that was originally begun as the Psych Central Forums in 2001. It now runs as an independent self-help support group community for mental health, personality, and psychological issues and is overseen by a group of dedicated, caring volunteers from around the world.

 

Helplines and Lifelines

The material on this site is for informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis or treatment provided by a qualified health care provider.

Always consult your doctor or mental health professional before trying anything you read here.