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  #1  
Old Jun 15, 2011, 07:53 PM
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zooropa zooropa is offline
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I asked my T to please not call me anymore. Do you think there is a rule (and maybe some of the therapy insiders can chime in here, lol) for Ts about contacting a client after the client has asked them not to?

And here's why I ask: even though I sent that text asking her not to call, I am still on edge every time I hear my phone. I am still worried that it will be her and that if I talked to her or read what she sent then I will just feel worse. I know nobody but T herself can definitively answer as to whether she will contact me again or not, but I think if I had a sense of what is usual or expected, what is the standard, for Ts, it might make me feel better. Or it might be that there is no standard, but then I would know that at least.
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  #2  
Old Jun 15, 2011, 08:04 PM
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ECHOES ECHOES is offline
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I would imagine she will want to honor and will honor your request, and that she may like to talk about it with you when you two next meet.
  #3  
Old Jun 15, 2011, 08:09 PM
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dizgirl2011 dizgirl2011 is offline
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Generally if a Client asks for no more contact a Therapist should respect this and follow the clients wishes because by not doing so, some clients (not you specifically) could complain of harrassment or emotional damage, also therapy is meant to be something people do voluntarily (ideally but its not always the case) and so forcing you into coming back or talking goes against this. Basically her contacting you, unless she fears for your safety, is unethical. However....if she feels your decison is not a true reflection of your feelinsg and is a decison made in haist she may attempt to make contact to sort the situation in some way.

Is there a part of you hopes she will contact, deep down?
  #4  
Old Jun 15, 2011, 08:09 PM
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zooropa zooropa is offline
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I told her I am not coming in again, I guess I'm just not loving the sort of open-endedness of it. I would like to know it's over, and not be waiting or dreading contact from her. I just want it to be over.

I type that ^ and then I read this from diz:
Quote:
Is there a part of you hopes she will contact, deep down?
and suddenly I realize that yes, deep down, part of me wants to hear from her. I want it to be over, I want to know I'm not going to hear from her, AND I want to hear from her, all at once.

diz, thank you. I hadn't stopped to look inside and see that part.
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  #5  
Old Jun 15, 2011, 09:03 PM
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deliquesce deliquesce is offline
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the "rule" (keeping in mind that therapy rules aren't black/white) is that she won't call you. if you would like to make contact again, then it is up to you to do so. right now T is respecting your boundaries by not calling - she is modelling healthy interpersonal skills!

maybe if you want to hear from her you could send her a txt asking for a call. maybe you could schedue a phone call. or ask for a confirmation txt that you two won't have contact again the future....

it's up to you, zooey, to ask for what you would like .
  #6  
Old Jun 15, 2011, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zooropa View Post
I told her I am not coming in again, I guess I'm just not loving the sort of open-endedness of it. I would like to know it's over, and not be waiting or dreading contact from her. I just want it to be over.

I type that ^ and then I read this from diz:

and suddenly I realize that yes, deep down, part of me wants to hear from her. I want it to be over, I want to know I'm not going to hear from her, AND I want to hear from her, all at once.

diz, thank you. I hadn't stopped to look inside and see that part.
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  #7  
Old Jun 15, 2011, 09:10 PM
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My T has told me that he would honor my wishes, even if he didn't like or agree with them. I also know that my T doesn't like playing guessing games. If I want or need something, I have to ask for it. It certainly helps me learn how to be more direct, which is beneficial in relationships as well....any-hoo...I'd imagine that it would be ethically appropriate for a T not to call you if you asked not to be called.
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Thanks for this!
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  #8  
Old Jun 15, 2011, 09:18 PM
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I guess I'll just let it sit and see how I feel. I have so much going on right now, I keep finding myself coming here and getting embroiled in the drama with my T and then I have to step back and go, "hey, self, remember real life? Remember those relationships you are trying to cultivate? Remember taking care of YOU?"
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Thanks for this!
rainbow8
  #9  
Old Jun 15, 2011, 09:56 PM
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If I received a message from a client that said "Do not call", I would not call. My goal is to show you that people should respect your boundaries that you set, and that my client's need to be responsible for their words. So, if I'm told not to call, I don't call.
  #10  
Old Jun 16, 2011, 01:52 PM
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I set up my phone so if T calls it will go directly to voice mail. That way I don't have to worry about it every time the phone rings. I suspect she will not call, and I'm mostly OK with that.
Thanks for this!
rainbow8
  #11  
Old Jun 16, 2011, 02:42 PM
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WikidPissah WikidPissah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zooropa View Post
I set up my phone so if T calls it will go directly to voice mail. That way I don't have to worry about it every time the phone rings. I suspect she will not call, and I'm mostly OK with that.
But now you will be checking your vm alot...at least that's what I would do. I totally get the not wanting to hear and fearing I will hear from T thing. My last T didn't call me back when I ended, but did call my hubby to "tattle" on me...that sucked. I want to wish you the best as you move on from this crisis..you deserve peace, and I hope you get it.
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never mind...
  #12  
Old Jun 16, 2011, 08:50 PM
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I believe that once therapy has terminated, the T is not supposed to initiate contact. It is up to the former client. I think I asked my T about this once.

I'm not sure if you have terminated, though. Have you? Even if you were continuing therapy and wished to put a boundary on phone calls, I think your T would honor that.
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  #13  
Old Jun 17, 2011, 02:02 AM
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I'm an idiot. A horrible, manipulative, selfish idiot.

I asked T expressly not to call me again. Then tonight I had to go to the ER again and I was so triggered and I called her. I called T. After telling her I was done, in no uncertain terms. I can't tell you what I was thinking. I wasn't thinking. I was in panic mode, not able to find my words to tell the doctor what I needed to tell him. I know I have talked about that with T (about what and how to say those things in that situation) and I guess I was thinking she could remind me because I just...I couldn't find my words.

I didn't talk to her, of course, and I got through it and now I'm home and I am ashamed and embarrassed and humiliated and really really angry with myself for calling her. She sends me mixed messages and I complain about that, but what am I doing? The exact same thing.

I hate this, I hate me, I hate T, I hate life.
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  #14  
Old Jun 17, 2011, 06:25 AM
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PreacherHeckler PreacherHeckler is offline
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Well Zoo, you know, it's kind of hard to break a pattern when your T's been setting the wrong example. I mean, this is a relationship we're supposed to learn from, so how can you expect to break your own patterns of behavior when your T does it?
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Conversation with my therapist:

Doc: "You know, for the past few weeks you've seemed very disconnected from your emotions when you're here."
Me: "I'm not disconnected from my emotions. I just don't feel anything when I'm here."
(Pause)
Me: "Doc, why are you banging your head against the arm of your chair?"
Doc: "Because I'm not close enough to a wall."

It's official. I can even make therapists crazy.
  #15  
Old Jun 17, 2011, 06:44 AM
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Sweet (((((((Zoo)))))))))

I PMed you before I saw this, so I won't repeat it all here...but I do want to send you lots and lots of

Be gentle with you.
  #16  
Old Jun 17, 2011, 06:47 AM
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darkrunner darkrunner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PreacherHeckler View Post
Well Zoo, you know, it's kind of hard to break a pattern when your T's been setting the wrong example. I mean, this is a relationship we're supposed to learn from, so how can you expect to break your own patterns of behavior when your T does it?
I'm sorry, I tried to ignore this but I can't help myself.
What a ridiculous thing to say. So now the T is getting blamed for this?
Good grief.

=====================================================

Zooropa,
I'm sorry you ended up in the ER again.

You ended your relationship with your therapist without putting in place any other resources for support, so what else could you do?

There is nothing to feel badly about, although I understand why you feel that way.
Your T is a professional and she will understand as well, I'm sure.

Have you done anything to try to find a new T?
I think it would be best for you to do this soon.
  #17  
Old Jun 17, 2011, 06:49 AM
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I never said the T "made" her do it. But we do tend to learn by example, don't we?
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Conversation with my therapist:

Doc: "You know, for the past few weeks you've seemed very disconnected from your emotions when you're here."
Me: "I'm not disconnected from my emotions. I just don't feel anything when I'm here."
(Pause)
Me: "Doc, why are you banging your head against the arm of your chair?"
Doc: "Because I'm not close enough to a wall."

It's official. I can even make therapists crazy.
  #18  
Old Jun 17, 2011, 07:33 AM
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The point is that we tend to be unconsciously drawn to people who are like us in some way or who remind us of someone close to us. If Zoo is trying to change her own pattern of communicating in relationships, and her T exhibits similar patterns of communicating, the ruptures will never end, and Zoo will have a very difficult time learning something different from someone who doesn't give her a different kind of experience.
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Conversation with my therapist:

Doc: "You know, for the past few weeks you've seemed very disconnected from your emotions when you're here."
Me: "I'm not disconnected from my emotions. I just don't feel anything when I'm here."
(Pause)
Me: "Doc, why are you banging your head against the arm of your chair?"
Doc: "Because I'm not close enough to a wall."

It's official. I can even make therapists crazy.
  #19  
Old Jun 17, 2011, 12:31 PM
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zooropa zooropa is offline
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I'd like to think it's not necessary to "blame" anyone here, but if it is then I will take it. I am an adult, albeit a highly emotional one going through a very stressful time, so I ought to be able to stop myself from calling someone I don't actually want to call. I don't blame T for that.

As far as finding a new T, I did talk to my case manager about it but unfortunately she left for a 2.5 week vacation the day after I met with her. Nothing can really happen as far as finding a new T without my CM being involved and signing off on it, so it has to wait until after she gets back.
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  #20  
Old Jun 17, 2011, 12:31 PM
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dizgirl2011 dizgirl2011 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zooropa View Post
I'm an idiot. A horrible, manipulative, selfish idiot.

I asked T expressly not to call me again. Then tonight I had to go to the ER again and I was so triggered and I called her. I called T. After telling her I was done, in no uncertain terms. I can't tell you what I was thinking. I wasn't thinking. I was in panic mode, not able to find my words to tell the doctor what I needed to tell him. I know I have talked about that with T (about what and how to say those things in that situation) and I guess I was thinking she could remind me because I just...I couldn't find my words.

I didn't talk to her, of course, and I got through it and now I'm home and I am ashamed and embarrassed and humiliated and really really angry with myself for calling her. She sends me mixed messages and I complain about that, but what am I doing? The exact same thing.

I hate this, I hate me, I hate T, I hate life.
Zoo (((huge hugs))), you were scared and needed someone and wanted reassurance, that does not make you a bad person at all huni.
I think deep down you don't want things to be over with your T, you just also don't want her to do or say things that are leading you to more pain.
As I said earlier I think there was some part of you wanting her to ring you, maybe for her to think "oh no, I have gone to far and now zoo is not going to come back, I need to ring her and tell her she has to and that I want her to come back" as a way to show she really cared. But when T didn't do this and you had to go to the ER it kind of presented you with the opportunity or reasonable "excuse" (not in a bad way) to contact her and open up that communication again....would any of this be right??

Has there been any contact since??

xxxxx
  #21  
Old Jun 17, 2011, 12:38 PM
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zooropa zooropa is offline
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T called as I was typing my post above. I forgot I had my phone set up to send her calls to voicemail, so even if she had called me last night I wouldn't have gotten it. Doh.

So here's the message she left. Again, this is transcribed by google voice which isn't always totally accurate but you get the idea. I haven't actually listened to the message yet, for some reason the idea scares me.
Quote:
hey Molly, this is [T} and I got your message yesterday and and I have, like, My whole weekend is jam packed so I can't effectively respond to it before monday, I, I, and I got your your text and Thank you for telling me that you're going to the E R and I. I got your voicemail and unfortunately I was unable to give you a coaching as I just, I got the the phone call too late. I am still available for coaching. I'm still available to be your therapist. I'm really hoping that you'll come in on Monday and Yeah, and I'm really hoping you'll come in because Molly, This is exactly what you and I decide what your goal was to learn to walk through the stuff. And I'm still more than willing to walk through this with you together. So that's it alright. I hope to see you on Monday and if you need to talk to you can give me a call. Bye.
I mean, it's a good message, it's ok. Except...if I do need to TALK give her a call? WTF? Is that not EXACTLY PRECISELY what she's been telling me not to do? God it's so confusing. So confusing.

I just want to add that my recollection of the goal I set in therapy about a month ago was to learn how to more effectively cope with medical procedures and tests. T has mentioned in a couple of her recent voice mails that my goal was to learn to work through this stuff, which is in itself a pretty vague definition, and that just adds to my confusion. What does that mean, work through this stuff, and how is it that I remember very clearly setting a very different goal?
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  #22  
Old Jun 17, 2011, 12:49 PM
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dizgirl2011 dizgirl2011 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zooropa View Post
T called as I was typing my post above. I forgot I had my phone set up to send her calls to voicemail, so even if she had called me last night I wouldn't have gotten it. Doh.

So here's the message she left. Again, this is transcribed by google voice which isn't always totally accurate but you get the idea. I haven't actually listened to the message yet, for some reason the idea scares me.

I mean, it's a good message, it's ok. Except...if I do need to TALK give her a call? WTF? Is that not EXACTLY PRECISELY what she's been telling me not to do? God it's so confusing. So confusing.

I just want to add that my recollection of the goal I set in therapy about a month ago was to learn how to more effectively cope with medical procedures and tests. T has mentioned in a couple of her recent voice mails that my goal was to learn to work through this stuff, which is in itself a pretty vague definition, and that just adds to my confusion. What does that mean, work through this stuff, and how is it that I remember very clearly setting a very different goal?
Hey,

I agree that the sentence "if you need to talk call me", is something she is saying without thinking. I think she has probably got used to using that as a phrase to end messages and forgets how it can be percieved. I think the word "need" in it is also unclear - does she maybe only mean emergancies. When she says talk, I think she means coaching, as this is what she seems to keep saying to you otherwise.

It sounds like she can sounds so caring and affection one minute and very harsh the next, I cannot imagine how badly this messes with your thoughts and emotions.

Do you know what you will do on monday?
  #23  
Old Jun 17, 2011, 12:56 PM
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I have no idea. I am so torn over what to do. I did set up my ride to get there, so I have the option. I really think I will hate myself for caving in and going after I felt so, so strongly that I was done.
My brain is going like this:
don't go, because you said you were done
don't go, because it doesn't feel safe
go, and give her hell
go, and apologize for everything

It's like, strong/weak, sad/angry, resigned/desperate, all the space of a few minutes, over and over.
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"It's easier to feel the sunlight without them," she said.
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  #24  
Old Jun 17, 2011, 01:04 PM
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I have this urge to actually call and cancel my ride, that way I can't go and I don't have to spend all weekend thinking about it. Which is dumb, and I should go back and read my posts from about a month ago before I do that. Because the last time I freaked out and decided not to go, even though everyone in my life that I asked for advice told me to go, I cancelled my ride and then had an almost immediate opposite freak out because I then of course felt like I wanted nothing more than to go.

I think if I learned anything then it is that I will kick myself in the butt if I don't go. And I also think I will kick myself in the butt if I DO go, and I have a very real fear that T will kick me in the emotional butt if I go.

I remember at the beginning of our last rupture I was scared to go see T and I called her over the weekend to tell her so. I asked her for some sort of promise that nothing bad will happen to me if I go, and she said it will be ok. Then I showed up and she was mean and interrupted me constantly and yelled and it was pretty much the worst session ever.

so this just occurred to me, as I was contemplating what is it that I'm afraid of? And I realized, it's Ts anger, defensiveness, frustration. In short, her emotions. I am afraid of going in there and having to cope with her emotions. I am not afraid of coping with MINE, but I cannot take on coping with hers and mine and then the new ones that hers trigger in me. If it could just be about me I think I would be ok. How do you ask your therapist to not inflict their emotions on you?
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She left pieces of her life behind her everywhere she went.
"It's easier to feel the sunlight without them," she said.
~Brian Andreas
  #25  
Old Jun 17, 2011, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
I'm really hoping that you'll come in on Monday and Yeah, and I'm really hoping you'll come in because Molly, This is exactly what you and I decide what your goal was to learn to walk through the stuff. And I'm still more than willing to walk through this with you together. So that's it alright. I hope to see you on Monday and if you need to talk to you can give me a call.
*sigh* Oh, gosh, I'd be there...

Why not go and see how it is? You can always quit on Tuesday
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