[zooropa]

I'm so upset I'm having a hard time being coherent, but basically my T talked again about me being done with therapy and I just spun out. I'll come back and flesh out the details later when I can.

Meanwhile, here are our texts since I left her office:

Me: I had to make her pull over so I could puke. I can't feel my legs. I think you're just waiting for your first chance to throw me away. I don't understand why you had to hit that trigger now when I'm already just struggling to keep my head above water. Why?

T: By avoiding the topic is another therapy interfering behavior on my part. I am realizing ways I treat u as fragile (another treatmt interfering behavior) which I have to stop. If ur gonna get better, I have to do DBT by the book- which I haven't been bc I've been treating u like u can't handle DBT by the book. I don't think uve been progressing like u could be if I Treated u as no fragile
Me: That ****ing sucks. It makes it hard if not impossible to trust you, because it feels like a trap.
Me: I'm spinning out. Big time. I'm sending this to everyone I talk to. Somebody help me stop spinning.

[unaluna]

YOUR T SAID: If ur gonna get better, I have to do DBT by the book- which I haven't been bc I've been treating u like u can't handle DBT by the book. END QUOTE

Zooropa, what is going on? This DOES sound like topic avoiding. Maybe she is burned out, and the two of you have simply gone as far as you can go together. How long have you been together? Also, personally, for my needs, DBT is helpful and informative and educational, but I think I need psychodynamic psychoanalytic therapy to change how I do.

[zooropa]

been seeing her almost exactly 3 years. We've been around and through and over this topic, and it never gets easier.

I need long term T and I thought that T and I had agreed to that, so I was pretty much blindsided by this coming up again today.

[PreacherHeckler]

Zoo, I don't understand your T at all. Wasn't it just a month or so ago that you had been approved by your insurance for an indefinite number of sessions, so you could focus on DBT for awhile and then get into deeper trauma work? And now she's talking about being done again??
I'm sorry you have to keep going through this. Your T would make me crazier than I already am.

[zooropa]

YES. Exactly. Thank you, preacher. I am too rattled to go post diving to find my posts from that time, but yes, that was my understanding and it has been really good to work with her without the threat of termination hanging over my head.
And then today, BAM.

I feel like I need to go back and read my posts to make sure I wasn't just imagining all of that. But I'm too busy trying to avoid doing anything to make it all worse.

[ECHOES]

I feel angry just reading about it. What is up with her? Why does she pull out the topic from time to time and throw you off-kilter like that?! Who says there has to be any discussion ahead of time about ending therapy? It's something to work through when it happens. No wonder you feel like she's pushing you away.

Her inconsistency would make me feel very un-grounded!

Now I have had discussions with my T about her feeling as if she needs to treat me with care, watch what she says, etc. At first it felt comforting that she was doing that, but then I realized that if she has to carefully consider much of what she says, that isn't the way I want my therapy to be. Her telling me, though, was so I could see my part in it and so we could learn from it together.

zoo, I am so sorry you are feeling very distraught. It's really hard to have to sit with something, to carry something from one session to the next, unresolved. I hope you can find some peace and know that you and T will talk more about this next time, and until then you have time to think about how you want to respond.

[PreacherHeckler]

You weren't imagining it, Zoo. On 9/14 you started a thread called "starting over" and then on the 21st you started one called "my session" or maybe "session today" (not sure which) but in both threads you talked about how well things were going with your T and in the first one you talked specifically about this issue.

[PreacherHeckler]

Even if she wants to do "DBT by the book" so that she isn't treating you as though you're fragile, I still don't see the need for her to add more to your plate by talking about being done on top of it. That's like being blindsided twice, especially since you guys just spent so much time rebuilding your relationship. She could have focused on the DBT issue first so as not to overwhelm you, and then when you begin to work on the deeper trauma issues you would have had a better idea of a time frame.

[zooropa]

T called me and we talked for about 15 mins. Let me backtrack and say that I called her and left a message a couple hours before. In the message I said that I was confused because I thought we were had resolved this issue, and that I was having a hard time coping with the emotions that got brought up. I reminded her that we had talked about "negotiating our terms" and that we never did that, but I didn't bring it up because I don't like talking about it.
I told her that I need to know that she won't unilaterally end therapy with me, and that if I don't have that I cannot trust her. I said that if I could get that agreement from her then I would agree to not unilaterally end therapy too.

So. She called me and thanked me for my message. She apologized for the way she brought this up today, and the timing of it. She still says that we have to set an end date, but she also apologized for not following through with our "negotiation." She said she looked back in my chart and saw that and said she just forgot and that was more therapy interfering behavior on her part.

I told her some of how I feel, that intellectually I can hear and understand and agree with most if not all of what she is saying, but at the same time there is this part of me that is that sad, scared little girl who is afraid and who experiences this as more rejection and more abandonment.

She said she has different feelings about it, too. She that as a person she wants to help me forever, that she wants to pick up that scared little girl and hold her and tell her that it will be okay. And that as a DBT therapist, she has a protocol that is proven to work and so she wants to follow that protocol because that's the best way to help me.

She also said that part of her is scared **itless to send me out in the world on my own, but that she won't do that until I'm ready.

Sooooo....we have to set an end date, which I hate and which I actually disagree with, but I told her I won't argue that with her because it's not up to me. What IS up to me is working hard in the time I have left with T, in really really working on the skills, and in making a good argument for that end date not being anytime soon.

I feel better. I don't really feel OKAY, I feel hurt and shaken and wounded, but I feel a little better. I do know that T isn't doing this to hurt me, she's doing it because she thinks it's the best way to help. I have to accept that. T is my T, not my friend, not my family, and not someone who will always be in my life. I don't like it and I don't agree with it, and I have to accept it.

[PreacherHeckler]

Glad things are somewhat better. I don't agree with setting an end date either but it doesn't sound like that's negotiable. Then again, I'm not sure why she's so adamant about an end date when she's also saying she won't send you out into the world on your own until you're ready.
I'm sorry Zoo but your T really confuses me. If she were my T, I would be way too triggered by her inconsistency and the warm T/cold T issues to feel safe enough to get any real work done.

[zooropa]

don't apologize, PH. It helps me to know that other people see some of the inconsistencies too, because otherwise I start to doubt whether it's real or all in my head.

I forgot to say, I told T tonight that her experience of our relationship is vastly different from mine, that for her it's a job and she has a protocol and a literal MANUAL to tell her what to do, and for me it's my *life* and there is no manual, there is no protocol, and it will never fit into a book.

[PreacherHeckler]

SO true, Zoo! When she feels uncertain about what to do next, she reads the manual! We have to just keep trying different things till we get it right!

[SoupDragon]

This sounds such a hard thing to be going through. But glad you have had a conversation with T. I find therapy really hard and have all sorts of avoidant tactics. Then oneday I decided that I wanted to move on and started to set myself targets. Like if I didn't start to talk about one of the hard things in 4 weeks then I would call it a day. It did help me. So for me targets were really useful at the stuck points. I am sure I would be scared if this suggestion had come from T though.

[zooropa]

I just blocked T from calling and texting me. I can't believe I'm back in this place, it's almost exactly where I was last spring when we went through this and I thought I had made so much progress since then, but then BAM. I'm back in the same spot.

I just know that I can't stand the interactions I've had with her today, and that I can't do anything at this point but make it worse, and I have, HAVE, to somehow focus on what's going on in my life and not on my relationship with T. I have to have some space. I have to be able to breathe.

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by zooropa

Sooooo....we have to set an end date...

How about October 20, 2050?

[Travelinglady]

Hi, Zoo! Sorry you and she have had these difficulties. It sounds like you had a misunderstanding from the get-go. I've been through DBT twice and it can work well. However, it IS a time-limited, goal-focused program.

Do you want a therapist to work with in a DBT program--or do you want one who will listen to your feelings, past hurts, etc.? These two types are mutually exclusive from my experiences with DBT.

I have had both types. However, I did go through DBT in group therapy both times. Not just alone with an individual therapist. The therapists were very goal-oriented. Even if someone started crying, that person was sent out of the room until she "got her act together." Sounds cruel, but that's how it's done.....

I have had the other "type" of therapists as well. And right now I'm with a T who is into cognitive stuff, since I've mainly dealt with my past junk.

I can understand your wanting to just get this T out of your life, since you feel hurt. I would suggest, however, that you try at least to talk to her one more time, if for no other reason than her being able to recommend another T to you. OR ideally, to stick DBT out---work through the exercises and follow the program--and then move on. I can assure you, unless she is a VERY unusual T, she does not intend to hurt you, but she wants the best for you. She might even recommend another person to do DBT with, if you desire.

No shooting the messenger, please. I'm trying to be helpful, too. Take care, dear one. Not all therapy or therapists suck. (However, sometimes they might just not be a good match for that given patient--or therapist.)

[zooropa]

it's not my T, it's me. I mean, yes, she has given mixed messages and been inconsistent, but it's me. It's my inability to not make this into a huge abandonment thing. It's my inability to stop pushing her when she tells me to stop pushing. It's just me, being me.

[Travelinglady]

I thought so, Zoo, to some extent, although I didn't feel comfortable saying it. I went through DBT to treat borderline tendencies--and a major part of BPD is a fear of abandonment. I'm glad you've had this insight.

That said, is there anyway that you might be able to talk about that with your T? DBT was originally designed to treat borderlines, but it is now used for other diagnoses as well. I guess that's why the T works so hard to try to just be a teacher, in a sense, and to try to keep the patient from getting too emotionally involved.

Do you think you can get enough perspective to see that she really isn't abandoning you--but that for your sake, she is trying to get you to work through the DBT with her and then move on? She cares about you enough to encourage you to get what you need from DBT, and then fly out of the nest and spread your wings. If SHE tried to hang on to you beyond when she thinks she is being helpful to you, then she is not being a good therapist. Does that make any sense?

BTW, the hate the word "termination" for the ending of therapy.....Can't they come up with a word that doesn't sound so fatal? Gee.

Hang in there, Zoo. As I say, she obviously does care or she wouldn't be pushing you to work through the program and move on.