[rainbow8]

I've been thinking about some of the mistakes my Ts have made with me. I don't want them to make mistakes, but they do. Mistakes made by a T can have long-lasting effects, like a parent who makes mistakes with us.

Has your T made any mistakes? How do you know if they have? I'm not sure if my T should have treated me the way she did or not so maybe they weren't mistakes. Maybe it's a case of being effective or less effective, productive or not productive. Is a T allowed to make mistakes?

[WePow]

My T makes mistakes. He is a human :-). I usually bring them up. And he ALWAYS appologizes.

T's are human. Therapy is very subjective. Of course they make mistakes.

[Hope-Full]

Yup, T has made mistakes before, though not many. And when I say something, she always apologizes. I like when she makes a mistake cause it shows that she's human. Thankfully, she doesn't generally make BIG mistakes, they are usually small things - she says something that I misinterpret, I get worried between appointments, I say something the next time I see T, and she apologizes.

She's made big mistakes twice - both times she said something as we wrapped up that she shouldn't have said since there was no time to discuss (nothing wrong with what she said, just the when.) Both times I went into panic mode and called, both times resulted in extra appointments, both times she apologized.

[rainbow8]

How do I know if the way she encouraged me to email, hold her hand, and other "extras" were mistakes or not?

She apologizes for little mistakes. But what if it's a BIG mistake? Or maybe it isn't one?

[scorpiosis37]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I've been thinking about some of the mistakes my Ts have made with me. I don't want them to make mistakes, but they do. Mistakes made by a T can have long-lasting effects, like a parent who makes mistakes with us.

Has your T made any mistakes? How do you know if they have? I'm not sure if my T should have treated me the way she did or not so maybe they weren't mistakes. Maybe it's a case of being effective or less effective, productive or not productive. Is a T allowed to make mistakes?

Ts are only human so, yes, they do make mistakes. I think it's a learning process for T. All clients are different. They have different needs and respond best to different approaches. I don't think a T can always know in advance how best to treat a client. That is particularly true if a client says they find something helpful or supportive-- but, in actuality, that behavior is enabling the client and therefore not in the client's best interest. This may take awhile for T to figure out.

However, there are also times Ts make mistakes when they really should know better. For instance, a T can forget important information the client has told, the T can be having a bad day and snap at a client or not offer the kind of support they should, or the T can become over-involved in the client's life and create a destructive, enabling, co-dependent pattern.

I think the first kind of mistakes are understandable, but the second would bother me and, if they happened repeatedly, would start sending red flags. However, I think do have to remember that Ts are human, too.

Every time I have confronted my T about something that he has said or done that bothered me, he has always validated my feelings and apologized for his mistake. Often he has followed that up by asking at the end of a session whether there is anything from that day that needs to be raised, or trying to be proactive about learning about his mistakes.

Anne

Like Wepow, Farmergirl, and Scorpiosis have said, therapists are only human! Bound to make some kind of mistake at some point. Nothing major with mine so far (she just forgot our appointment one time, heh)

[stopdog]

One does all the time but will never admit it or apologize. The other one not so much but does apologize

[rainbow8]

I think it's a learning process for T. All clients are different. They have different needs and respond best to different approaches. I don't think a T can always know in advance how best to treat a client. That is particularly true if a client says they find something helpful or supportive-- but, in actuality, that behavior is enabling the client and therefore not in the client's best interest. This may take awhile for T to figure out.

Scorpiosis: that's what I'm wondering about. Did my T make that kind of mistake? My former T didn't treat me that way but she didn't help me, so did she make mistakes too? Whose fault is it if a client doesn't get better? The T's or the client?

[PreacherHeckler]

As long as they're human, they'll make mistakes. Some mistakes are more consequential than others. And something that might be a mistake with one patient might not be a mistake with another because of the individual differences in each patient's issues. It's also possible to say or do something that might be a mistake early in the relationship but the same words or actions would be perfectly appropriate later on when the relationship is solid.
Mistakes are inevitable. Most T's try not to make serious mistakes but even the most conscientious and experienced T will screw up once in awhile.

Originally Posted by rainbow8

Scorpiosis: that's what I'm wondering about. Did my T make that kind of mistake? My former T didn't treat me that way but she didn't help me, so did she make mistakes too? Whose fault is it if a client doesn't get better? The T's or the client?

Why the need to place blame? Look, think of being a T kind of like being a parent. Parents (good ones) have the best interests of their children in mind, but sometimes the choices they make, in hindsight, just didn't work due to the individual personalities of their children, unforseen circumstances, etc. I don't know that I even call that a mistake. It's just life working out differently than predicted even with all the information and education and experience that we have. Don't get wrapped up in this, Rainbow. You have a great T. Stop second guessing everything. You will just drive yourself nuts.

[scorpiosis37]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

How do I know if the way she encouraged me to email, hold her hand, and other "extras" were mistakes or not?

From following your threads over a period of time, it seems to me (although I am not a therapist!) that those "extras" your T provided may well have been mistakes because they've enabled you to become dependent on her and have created what seems to be bordering on an "obsession." I think, given your history of becoming overly attached to your Ts and your therapy goal of getting over this pattern, offering any "extras" that allow you to feed this obsessive attachment is not helpful or therapeutic. I think it may be more helpful in your particular situation for your T to have firm boundaries, not offer "extras," and encourage you to find ways of soothing yourself, coping on your own, and turning to people in your RL for support when you need it. However, I don't think this is the case in every therapeutic encounter, so it's very possible that your T did not know that offering "extras" to you would create the situation it has (with the changing e-mail rules, wanting more than she can offer, etc.) After all, when she started holding your hand, you said that it felt safe and supportive. Thus, when she continued to hold your hand, she was attempting to provide the safety and support you wanted. However, it seems that for a lot of clients (and perhaps for you), when the therapist offers one thing, the client suddenly want ten other things, too. Just hand holding isn't enough. Or just e-mailing isn't enough. They want more. For clients in this category, I think firm boundaries are absolutely necessary. Feeding into the continuing cycle of overwhelming needs is not helpful because that cycle will never end; there will never be a limit to what the clients wants. Therefore, I think the client will inevitably get hurt. For that reason, I think stopping that as soon as possible is the best way to prevent the client from feeling hurt and abandoned later on. If the client knows exactly what the boundaries are and is that these boundaries demonstrate for the client that this is a caring, professional relationship and nothing more, there is less opportunity for the client to fantasize it is something else and then get hurt when they realize it is not. (As I said at the outset, I am not a therapist; this is merely my opinion.)

[ECHOES]

I think that when something changes, it doesn't mean what it changes from is a mistake.
It might have been in her best judgement to be exactly what she thought would be helpful at that time, given all that she knew at that time.

Do you feel like the changes have to be her 'fault' or yours?

[rainbow8]

If what you wrote is true for me, what do I do now, Scorpiosis?

[rainbow8]

I apologize for sneaking this thread in, asking a general question when I really wanted to discuss my situation again. I am sorry for being that needy right now.

ECHOES: I emailed my T last night that I couldn't stand it if she made mistakes with me. If it was wrong for her to give me what she did. I want it to be MY failure, not hers. I don't want her to have been wrong! This therapy was going to be great, was going to do what the others didn't do for me. I was going to end my pattern and not obsess about a T anymore. I was going to get better. I messed up.

[unaluna]

I feel like I opened this can of worms. I'm sorry. I really need to be more careful and really start following guidelines.
WAIT A MINUTE - what you just said to echoes - how did YOU mess up if SHE messed up? That is your childhood theme with your mother. Okay, NOW i'll shut up! Sorry!

[rainbow8]

You didn't do anything, hankster. My T did it in my session when she talked about reframing. I've been wondering all along if it was going to backfire on me--all the good feelings I felt about my T, and all the emails and holding her hand. I was afraid it was TOO good. I have to talk to her about it on Tuesday. Again, NO ONE here said anything that I didn't wonder about already.

I messed up because I can't stand it if my T did. I like her too much and I don't want her to have made mistakes with me. I trusted her and still do, but if SHE messed up and not me, then.......I don't know!

[ECHOES]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I apologize for sneaking this thread in, asking a general question when I really wanted to discuss my situation again. I am sorry for being that needy right now.

ECHOES: I emailed my T last night that I couldn't stand it if she made mistakes with me. If it was wrong for her to give me what she did. I want it to be MY failure, not hers. I don't want her to have been wrong! This therapy was going to be great, was going to do what the others didn't do for me. I was going to end my pattern and not obsess about a T anymore. I was going to get better. I messed up.

rainbow, you didn't mess up. You went into this therapy with the pattern that you knew about and you were honest with your T about it. You did just what you were supposed to do, to 'start where you are'. You and T tried one way, and now you and T, together, are going to try another way. I'll bet you do that in other areas of your life, saying "Well this isn't working like I thought, I'm going to try this other way.". You and T both want the same thing, for you to feel better. You are still on the same journey. You are changing routes because there is more than one path to get there. Your T is committed to your feeling better. Who knows that it won't still be great, just in a way you can't right now imagine. Allow that possibility. Be open to it.

[scorpiosis37]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

If what you wrote is true for me, what do I do now, Scorpiosis?

As usual, I think the best thing to do is to talk to T about it. Even if it was technically a "mistake," it's an opportunity for learning and growth. I don't think it means in any way that T is a bad therapist or undeserving of your trust. It just means she is trying different strategies to help you, and now she has more information to work with and a better sense of what you need.

Try not to look at it as messing up or making mistakes. It sounds like she changed things because she thought it would be best for you. She is looking out for you and your best interests. Sometimes one thing doesn't work so something else is tried?

I hope that makes sense. You seem so hurt inside and I wish that could be healed somehow. Take care.

[PreacherHeckler]

Rainbow what does it mean if your T isn't perfect? What does it mean if your parents weren't perfect? This seems to be a big concern for you... why does it feel so threatening to you?

[rainbow8]

PH: I trust people and then they make mistakes that hurt me. My T is supposed to know what she's doing. My parents were supposed to know, too. It makes me feel very unsafe when others don't know what they are doing, because I am very unsure of myself, so I need others to have the answers. It makes me feel lost if they don't.

there sits a stove with a pan on a burner.
the burner is on.

someone says to you "go move the pan."

you say "ok"
you touch the pan & burn your hand because it's hot.

so you think...hmmm..how can i do this & accomplish this task???
ah...i'll turn off the burner.
you touch the pan again. still hot.

you wait a few more minutes. it's cooler but still very warm.

you look around & notice a potholder.
you put it on your hand & then are able to move the pan safely.
mission accomplished safely.

sometimes the first attempt at a mission does not succeed. sometimes you have to reassess your goals & methods. sometimes you need to slow down & think a little bit. & sometimes you need a little help from something else like a pot holder (or a T) to finish a project. doesn't mean you were wrong in your first attempt...just means that if the pan had been cold you would have been ok bare handed but with a hot pan..it wouldn't have worked.

learning takes steps...some backward, some forward..some with help. it is a continuum.

[PreacherHeckler]

Thanks Rainbow, that's pretty much what I thought but I didn't want to make assumptions. You might find some of the information on this website helpful, especially the schemas listed under the impaired autonomy and performance domain.

http://www.schematherapy.com/id201.htm