Does your T make mistakes?

I am giving my T the respect for her privacy. I will NOT google her family anymore. I made that commitment to myself because I care about her and I know it's for my own well-being too.

Anne, I did NOT want you to go away. I wanted myself to go away. I don't feel well, I miss my T, I am frustrated, depressed, and tired.

I don't know you interpreted that as wanting you to go away.

Rainbow... maybe you just need to learn to come at peace with some things in life. Even loss and death (too many of my relatives are dead... but I don't want to waste the days I am alive for the fact.... there is sense of loss, but then... there is acceptance. We all have our limited time here and we should use it usefully and wisely).

I came to accept the darkness in my life... and I feel a lot less miserable because of that. The world never ends and skies do not fall, even if life gets overwhelming... I guess accepting some things as fact of life is the best you can do.

Hi R8! You keep saying, "I can't stand that" - Dr Albert Ellis and his RET - Rational Emotive Therapy, would say, "So you think you can't stand it? So what?" (Okay, so maybe he wasn't the most ELOQUENT T in the world!) He really does go on from there to explain more. (I saw him speak in NYC, and he does like his 4-letter words - he was a hoot!) You might want to pick up a book on this for kicks (they are short!) - RET was quite popular for a while there, might still be - just for a different perspective. It might say something to you.

I think we're getting back to the question - what are you afraid of? This can be answered on so many levels - not fulfilling my destiny was my usual answer. But my primary answer is - her. I was - am - afraid of my mother. She's kinda mean, maybe there are reasons for it - but I don't think she ever really liked me. So I don't like when the phone rings. My heart races, in a really bad way. What makes, or made, your heart race like that?

I could never accept "so what" as an answer for my r/s with her until now. I feel like a cold-hearted b!tch when other people tell me about their old moms, like my neighbor was the other day, but you know what - if that's what he thinks I am, okay by me. I know what I have to do to survive. I was barely living before. My apartment was a dump. It is starting to get pretty, and so am I. Give yourself this gift.

My t has made mistakes, and occassionally hurt my feelings, and forgotten something important, stuff like that. Shes human and shes allowed to do that.

Clearly there is absolutely no reason why you should feel compelled or even respond to my previous response, but I do have just a few last questions that I hope you will ponder. There may not be any answers yet - that's why you are in therapy.

You wrote:

"I'm happy sometimes, but there is always something wrong." What if you could change this sentence to "I'm happy sometimes AND there is always something wrong."

Also, by no excuses, I guess I meant just that. No justifications for what is making you unhappy, allowing for no impediments to your happiness, just opportunities to learn and grow, and a steadfast determination to break this cycle as you put it.

What if you said, "I'm going to break it. I have help, I have the inner resources (no excuses that you don't, you just assume you do) and I have the will to do it."

What if you just said that to yourself and your therapist? Wonder what would happen.

You create a space by asking, not necessarily immediately answering these kinds of questions.

I think you are right at the place where you can break through this barrier. It's a scary, exciting time.

Rainbow, that's a good question. Most of us here on this site are dealing with very tough issues. Sometimes it' s not anyone' s fault if a client doesnt improve. I look at times when therapy helped me but i got worse before i got better and other times it didnt work because i just needed a different type of therapy or i wasnt ready or the therapist wasnt experienced with my issues. It wasnt anybody' s fault.
But what you mentioned your T doing don' t sound like mistakes. It sounds like your T is reaching out to you by offering you to hold his/ her hand or have you email or am i missing something?

Hi Rainbow, sorry I wasn't real clear about the schema therapy website. I didn't mean you should try schema therapy -- not many T's are trained to do it. I suggested looking at the schemas in that particular domain because they seem to fit your pattern, particularly the dependence/incompetence schema and the enmeshment/undeveloped self schemas. The treatment strategy requires a delicate balancing act by the T because she needs to allow just enough dependence and enmeshment to keep the patient in treatment but not enough to make the therapy itself rewarding. The T gradually withdraws so that the therapy relationship is not the focus, and the patient focuses on individuating and taking risks to develop self-confidence.

So you're an uncaring insensitive creep who shouldn't be allowed near vulnerable patients, that's what!

Actually, you might should read up on Ellis and RET. Some very sound principles.

thank you for the support. I was wondering why the name-calling, and your post alleviated that.

VH: Thanks: that's good advice. Acceptance is key to happiness.

hankster: I remember RET, vaguely. I'm sorry your Mom wasn't nice and that you were afraid of her. I'm fortunate to have good memories of mine. I'm not sure what I'm afraid of.

SarahMichelle: thank you

elliemay: I like to try to answer everyone who takes the time to post. My T is so positive; she's trying to get me to be that way but it's hard to change. I'll start: I CAN do it, like "the little engine that could". He said "I think I can. I think I can. I think I can" and he made his way over the mountain so the children could get their toys and food!

likewater: It could be that my T didn't make mistakes but if not, why am I still stuck in the same place? The hand holding is reaching out, yes, but if it makes me more dependent on my T, it's not good. Actually, my gut feeling is STILL that holding her hand helps me and doesn't hurt me.

PH: The schema website was very interesting! I was pleased that the treatment for BPD, at least part of it, was exactly the way IFS works and the way my T treats me! For example: ask what that child part looks like, what she needs, and how client can give it to her. That's not a quote, but it was similar enough to make me smile! I do wonder why no one has mentioned schema therapy for BPD. I'll have to check out the BPD site and ask. Maybe it's better than DBT.

Hey,

I haven't read all the pages in between the first post and here but I agree with everyone who says that our T are only human and I think a lot of us can forget that. A T is just someone who usually likes helping others and decided to train in a particular field in order to help others.It doesn't mean they have all the answers. Can you imagine if someone asked you right now for how they should fix things...would you feel you could give them the answer? Probably not and that is how it is for therapists too, they can really only help support us in moving ourselves forward.

T make mistakes, we all do. I think sometimes what happens is what a client wants and what they need or what at least is best of them in the long run can be very conflicting and so a T is in a loose, loose situation. For example I will use the way your T holds your hand....

She knows you want this and that it helps you in the moment at least but she also knows how it probably increases attachment and perhaps increases your distress when you are not with her. What you maybe need is someone who encourages more independance, however that will feel painful to you because its not what you want or what you at least feel you need.....so there are major conflicts there and a T has to try and balance things out. Like with the emails, she thought it would help you and it was what you wanted, so she tried to meet that want but realised that you felt more and more distressed at the reponses she gave so instead of continuing that, which was not going to be helpful, she decided to change things.......I guess you may see that as a mistake but you could also just see it as a realisation that there was a better way to try and help?

I know its hard but sometimes if we put ourselves in our T shoes and think about how they must feel about what we are saying it helps us look at things a bit more realistically.

To me, the problem is not that they make mistakes. The whole therapy thing is so amorphous and vague that mistakes are inherent in the system. The problem for me is when they refuse to admit it or blame the client.

Hi Rainbow, schema therapy is excellent for BPD if you can find a practitioner who is trained to do it. It's definitely more palatable than DBT is for most people with BPD because DBT is often perceived as too clinical and harsh for people with BPD. However, according to the schema therapy practitioner's guide they sometimes use DBT later on after doing schema therapy if the patient really needs the more extensive skills training that DBT offers.
I also noticed the similarities with IFS and that's one of the reasons why I thought you might relate to this information. I wish I could link you to the BPD chapter of the schema therapy practitioner's guide because it's very detailed and even if your T doesn't actually do schema therapy you could benefit from the strategies that are used. I have the practitioner's guide downloaded on a different computer but that computer no longer has internet access so I don't know how I could get that chapter to you.

i've read some of the ellis stuff and it's helped, even when i haven't "liked" hearing things always

((((((((rainbow))))))))))

I haven't read all the responses here, Rainbow, but I can tell you - my T has made "mistakes" because he's human.

BUT, one thing that T told me that really stuck with me is that he is unable to promise me that he won't say or do something that would feel hurtful. This is a relationship, and it's bound to happen - but know that it is not out of maliciousness or ambivalence. And when it happens, it's an opportunity to work on our relationship.

Rainbow, I honestly don't feel that it's about mistakes or messing up with you and your T. It's movement. It's learning new processes. It's evolving. And you're resisting it, which is understandable and has meaning in itself.

(( HUGS ))

I see my T today. This thread has helped me get perspective on my session last week. Thanks, everyone. I'm reframing "mistakes" as learning experiences but I still want to ask my T if she thinks they hurt me or not. I especially have to resolve the "holding her hand" issue though ATM I don't feel I need it. I can visualize how it feels and that safe, warm feeling is mine to keep forever no matter what.

dizgirl: thank you.You have a knack of getting to the truth! My T even said, when she changed the rule about emails, that she always has to readjust--I think that was her word.

stopdog: you're right. Fortunately my T is honest with me and wouldn't blame me for anything.

PH: Thank you! Schema therapy looks a lot like IFS, which pleases me since it is what my T does. Has anyone here been in t with a T who uses this kind of therapy?

tigergirl: thanks!

MUE: The above is very insightful. I AM resisting it. Something to think about; thank you.

Rainbow8, this is weird to say: I feel like you don't "get" my responses. I understand that you get a lot of responses, and it's not that my feelings are hurt by this, but you ignore the questions I ask you, and I am surprised by the stuff you DO focus on, like you said, "i'm sorry your mom was like that, but mine wasn't".
I will continue to comment because it helps me, but I wonder if you are not hearing and answering your T in depth as well? I see you as busy with your hands, arranging things in front, so we don't see what's behind. That's how the email once a week etc appears to me, frantically rearranging options, but don't look at the feelings. Does this ring a bell on a specific incident?

To be honest, hankster, it's true that I don't always "get" your responses. In this case, I truly wanted you to know that I was sorry for YOUR experiences with your Mom so I posted that. I thought you weren't on target because I didn't have a Mom like that.

I can't answer everyone's questions; it's overwhelming but I know I didn't know how to answer you. Let me look again now: I have to send this and go back to your other post. But to answer you now, I don't get what you mean about the email once/week. I email my T as often as I want to. SHE used to email once/week. I don't know what you're asking me.

I try to answer my T in depth. I don't think it's a problem for me.

Hankster: is this the question you meant? I'm afraid of a lot of things but I'm not sure they are relevant to my issues. I don't know what to answer: I guess I'm afraid of loss--losing people I care about, and not being able to survive. Well, that IS relevant, isn't it! My heart races when my H or kids are on the road or in the air and I worry something may happen to them. I worry that my grandchildren will die before I do. So, of course I worry about losing my T. I get immobilized when I think about those kinds of things.

Bingo? But the T fixation is "easier" to deal with than this fear, but neither ever goes away?

I am really not attached to anybody in any meaningful way, so I can't weigh in on whether your "immobilizing" feelings about loss are "normal" - but saying that, I would guess NOT, because my lack of attachment is related to how my family dealt with loss.

I remember being terrified as a young newlywed over the prospect of losing my husband. Unfortunately, in a few short years, that terror turned into wishing he'd just get lost...

Anyway, I think you may have hit on something. Do other people feel that constant terror, or stuff it down, or do you enjoy life and figure why worry until something actually happens? It reminds me of that scene in Annie Hall where Woody Allen says he can't enjoy life as long as he knows there is misery in the world, as long as there is one miserable person in the world.

stopdog hit the nail on the head. They are humans, as everyone has written, and everyone will naturally make mistakes. But how they respond to this is what's more important. My last two therapists have made mistakes (like everyone), but their response to them differentiates them. One would all of a sudden change things (for ex, holding my hand) without explaining and put it on me: "You pushed me to hold your hand." The other has come into appts and at the beginning said "I made a mistake last time. I did X and I realized that this is not helpful, so I'm going to work on doing Y." This second model has taught me to do the same when I make mistakes - feel OK admitting my mistakes, take responsibility for them, and thinking of constructive solutions/behavior modifications. So, again, it's what they do with their mistakes, just like what we do with our feelings (attachment/wanting a mother as we've discussed on previous threads). We can't stop their/our mistakes or their/our feelings; what's important is the response--learning experiences for them and us. I love when therapists have told me that they learned about themselves from me as I feel "guilty" sometimes w/ it being such a oneway relationship.

Yes, she screwed up 2 sessions ago, as a matter of fact.

And my pdoc said something to me I didn't like the first time I met with her. I decided not to "let her win", so to speak, so I still see her.

I'm very sorry to hear it.