[Yady Smith]

I've been trawling through some of these posts recently and I've found that a common theme is the one concerning our relationships with our therapists. While I have only had some very limited experiences in this area, I have had enough to have felt these types of emotions towards both male and female Ts.

I can only imagine how magnified these feelings must be after seeing a therapist over a long period of time.

I would however like to point out that these therapists are being paid to be there, and if they were not being paid they would not be there. It really is that simple, cold but simple. The emotions are very real, but they are your emotions and not those of your therapist.

Good luck!

[unaluna]

Totally. Which is why I want to explore and understand these feelings. I think if you ignore these feelings, it's like going to the dentist regularly but not getting your teeth x-rayed. If you don't "treat" these feelings, you're not drilling out and filling the cavities, and your dentist spends the time WAITING for you to open your mouth until your time is up. IMO. Good work if you can get it. I'll know I'm done "exploring" these feelings when I can be around a person I'm attracted to IRL and not act like a total dork (partial dork would be okay!).

[Yady Smith]

Originally Posted by hankster

Totally. Which is why I want to explore and understand these feelings. I think if you ignore these feelings, it's like going to the dentist regularly but not getting your teeth x-rayed. If you don't "treat" these feelings, you're not drilling out and filling the cavities, and your dentist spends the time WAITING for you to open your mouth until your time is up. IMO. Good work if you can get it. I'll know I'm done "exploring" these feelings when I can be around a person I'm attracted to IRL and not act like a total dork (partial dork would be okay!).

Many thanks for the reply. However you’re wrong and I’m right.
OK I can have a sense of humor sometimes! I hope you can see the funny side!

I can’t really agree with you though. I believe that your relationship with your therapist should be professional on both sides. You’re paying (whether directly or indirectly) for a service and the therapist is being paid to supply that service.

I would think that each party should know just what is acceptable behavior from the other. But the main responsibility definitely lies with the therapist as he/she may be dealing with a very vulnerable and confused person.

Originally Posted by Happy Chappy

I believe that your relationship with your therapist should be professional on both sides.

I am so uninterested in your opinion about other people's relationships with their therapists. Talk about your own relationship if you have one. I believe this forum is for the purpose of talking about psychotherapy, not for judging the posts of those who come here.

Anne

[Yady Smith]

Thanks for your opinion.

[TayQuincy]

Originally Posted by Happy Chappy

I believe that your relationship with your therapist should be professional on both sides.

My therapist is a professional but I am not, therefore I am under no obligation to be professional on my side of the relationship.

I feel very sad for you, and those who think like you and believe that being a professional prohibits emotional involvement in the relationship. It only shows what you, personally, have not experienced.

if they were not being paid they would not be there

Not true. I haven't paid my former T since we ended therapy 10 years ago, but we still have a relationship (professional), she still cares deeply for me, and she is still there.

[unaluna]

No problems here. The relationship IS professional. I let my gyno touch my lady parts during an examination, right? Similarly, a therapist has access to all my feelings - to push, poke, probe, press, manipulate, question, explain, interpret - but only for analytical purposes! I'm ALWAYS right...

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by Happy Chappy

But the main responsibility definitely lies with the therapist as he/she may be dealing with a very vulnerable and confused person.

And that's where the leeway and judgment come in, and who's to say a T would do more or less harm by acting the way you think he should, vs the way he is acting now? Whose name is on the license? It may seem clear to based on what we read here, but that is probably not the whole story. (And who in therapy is NOT vulnerable and confused?)

[Yady Smith]

Originally Posted by hankster

And that's where the leeway and judgment come in, and who's to say a T would do more or less harm by acting the way you think he should, vs the way he is acting now? Whose name is on the license? It may seem clear to based on what we read here, but that is probably not the whole story. (And who in therapy is NOT vulnerable and confused?)

I'm really interested where this is going. I'm not saying that a T should act a certain way. He/she is the professional and must guide things in the right direction. All I'm saying is that he should/must act professionally. In my opinion anything else is unacceptable.

There are so many people/patients on this forum who seem to be having problems with their feelings towards their t. Surely it is the responsibility of the t. to be sensitive to this and act accordingly, and indeed to make sure that the patient also understands just what is going on, and knows what emotions to expect to experience.

I don't mean to be negative or patronizing. It just seems that this is a very real problem and should be looked at closely, and with the utmost sensibility.
I'm on the patients side here. And I use the word patient intentionally, perhaps client would be more PC though.

I think you are quite correct in pointing out who in therapy is NOT vulnerable and confused? That's why they're there in the first place.

I sincerely hope that I'm not insulting anyone. That is most definitely not my intent.

Guess you don't know me and my T then. Because she has a huge heart, often I can't afford to pay her for being here for me (like all the phone calls she has made to me when she's out of the country on a family emergency, and the emails she answers)-- she loves her job and she loves many of her clients. Including me. I'm not vulnerable or confused in therapy. I've got a good handle on me and T's relationship as well as therapy and my other relationships with people. We say "I love you" frequently to each other and she often says/writes that she misses me. She is a professional, yes. But I pay her for her KNOWLEDGE and her EXPERIENCE-- I don't pay for her heart or her love-- she said that her heart is not for sale. She doesn't get paid to care or paid to love her clients. That's something she gives freely.

[~Christina]

WOW seems like this tread is a touchy subject brought on further by someone saying whats right and wrong .. Theres no point starting BS here as this is a community of people getting, offering and plain ole good advice ..

My 2 cents .. I adore my T hes has helped me so much .. I know he cares for me as im losing my health insurance the end of the year but has already told me he will continue to see me at no charge ... I care for him like i would a friend .. regardless of my paying him ... Hes guiding me thru lots of baggage and nonsense .. I trust him completly but he earned that trust .. we are a good fit for therapy ...

Noone has the correct answer on this topic ...people are too multidimensional for anyone to make broad statements about feelings and how there therapy is going.

Good luck

[Yady Smith]

Originally Posted by TayQuincy

My therapist is a professional but I am not, therefore I am under no obligation to be professional on my side of the relationship.

I feel very sad for you, and those who think like you and believe that being a professional prohibits emotional involvement in the relationship. It only shows what you, personally, have not experienced.

I didn't say that. I said: I 'have felt these types of emotions towards both male and female Ts.' Emotions are all that matter, that's why we're there in the first place! But it seems that the relationship itself is what is causing the problems.

Originally Posted by TayQuincy

Not true. I haven't paid my former T since we ended therapy 10 years ago, but we still have a relationship (professional), she still cares deeply for me, and she is still there.

You are one of the lucky ones, what about all of the people who get 'dumped' by their t's by text, email, phone etc.
As I said above: if they were not being paid they would not be there. I still maintain that this is the case in the vast majority of cases! A t. is like a teacher. Some good, some bad. Some care, some don't. Some are in it for the money, some are in it to help. But all of them get VERY well paid at the end of the week!

[scorpiosis37]

Originally Posted by SarahMichelle

She is a professional, yes. But I pay her for her KNOWLEDGE and her EXPERIENCE-- I don't pay for her heart or her love-- she said that her heart is not for sale. She doesn't get paid to care or paid to love her clients. That's something she gives freely.

Well said, SarahMichelle. I feel the same way about my relationship with my T. She is a professional and I am happy to pay for her expertise, insight, and therpeautic wisdom. However, no amount of money pay her can "make" her care about me. The fact that she does care comes from the nature of our relationship with one another. Her caring is appropriate to the client/therapist relationship and one of the "human" aspects of the therapeutic encounter.

[Yady Smith]

Originally Posted by morethingswrong

WOW seems like this tread is a touchy subject brought on further by someone saying whats right and wrong .. Theres no point starting BS here as this is a community of people getting, offering and plain ole good advice ..
Good luck

Many thanks for the reply. However you’re wrong and I’m right.
OK I can have a sense of humor sometimes! I hope you can see the funny side!

Maybe my sense of humor isn't to your taste, but it doesn't call for personal insults! I'm not starting any BS

Originally Posted by Happy Chappy

Some are in it for the money, some are in it to help. But all of them get VERY well paid at the end of the week!

Not necessarily... And I'm insulted by your statements.

Here in the US with our ridiculous health insurance situation, this is simply no longer true. My insurance (which she is paneled with) gives her between my copay and their contribution just $65/hr. Given that we live in one of the most expensive cities in the US and she has 25 years of experience after her PhD and she rents out office space, this hardly makes for getting paid very well as you claim. Not to mention the fact that she never charges me for texts, emails, or phone calls (maybe about 20-30 mins/week, but this is half a session). Therapists don't get paid when they don't work, so any vacation time/illnesses/caring for sick family members isn't compensated, like the rest of us with salaries. My therapist has thought about going to a cash only practice--therefore she'd receive the $125/hr she charges, or double--but she refuses to do it because she knows that most of her clients couldn't afford it. So, instead, she sees clients 5 days/week and teaches 2 graduate classes as an adjunct. My therapist is hardly the only one who does it for her deep caring--and yes, love--of her clients.

I'm not sure what your point is here--my understanding of PC is to be supportive. Yes, some of us "struggle" w/ loving our therapists (and other people in our lives), but why come out with such inflammatory statements that clearly aren't constructively challenging us, but rather are judgmental and demeaning?

I hope that you can one day work with a therapist who is genuinely in it for the love her work, perhaps of her clients.

[Yady Smith]

This all seems to be getting a bit out of hand. Could everyone who seem to be having a problem with my position please go up to my original post and comment on that!!!

[Wysteria]

"He/she is the professional and must guide things in the right direction. All I'm saying is that he should/must act professionally. In my opinion anything else is unacceptable.

There are so many people/patients on this forum who seem to be having problems with their feelings towards their t. Surely it is the responsibility of the t. to be sensitive to this and act accordingly, and indeed to make sure that the patient also understands just what is going on, and knows what emotions to expect to experience."

Dear HC,

I don't know if you are in therapy or your understanding of therapy but whole schools of therapeutic training are based upon the relationship and interactions and feelings and responses on both the psychologist's part and the client's feelings and responses as well. The ways in which the client responds to and attaches to the therapist and learns to form new bonds and healthy relationships both in and out of the therapist's office are the key to good therapy. As the client learns to bond and trust and receive healing and direction within the professional bounds of the therapeutic relationship, they are in a cocoon of safety that they can find no where else.

To say it is up to the therapist to direct the expectations of the client is missing the point. No one can direct the responses and feeling of anyone else in any situation. What triggers and associations one client may have will never be the same as another. Same as in RL. You cannot control anyone else ever. The whole point IS for the client to react and explore their reactions and emotions and ability to form relationships. Setting boundaries is up to both the therapist and the client. It is a dualistic endeavor. Again, boundary setting is another lesson and area to explore.

It is no wonder that we question and doubt and explore and hurt together as we go through this process. If we are really working in therapy, there is a lot of vulnerability and risk involved in order to get to the trust, healing, security and positive connections that we all seek. Everything has a balancing opposite and we must learn how to work with both the good and the bad to become strong and flexible to adapt to our ever changing worlds. It is not a straight line healing, it is an up and down process and it hurts, and we share with each other to support one another to become stronger and more loving and connected individuals.

It is not black and white nor simple. It is not easily managed. It is not "directed" or scripted. It is highly individualized and incredibly personal and sensitive to the hurts and deep emotional pain suffered by the ones that come to these therapists for relief. It is emotionally charged and sensitive and can cause more trauma very easily. The people here are risking a lot to find relief and working very hard to find a new way to live in freedom and without constant emotional pain. It often takes years and decades, and it takes courage and heart.

If you don't understand, listen. Please don't presume or assume to tell these people what they should or should not feel. No one has that right.

Wysteria Blue

[unaluna]

Well, what has chappy said that is so terrible? He thinks patients might have blind spots. He worries that therapists might not have the clients' best interests at heart. OBVIOUSLY - or I guess it would be more SUPPORTIVE to say PERHAPS! - these are his own fears? I have read that we hate MOST those faults in others that we have ourselves.

BTW, does BS stand for Boy Stuff? Some people find humor supportive, he states he is being humorous, no one was replying to him, I searched unanswered threads and did reply, ergo humor can be expected - I claim half dibs on these threads. You don't have to read them, I found the cute guy, he's mine! I mean that supportively, of course.

[Wysteria]

Dear Happy Chappy,

I must confess that my last post was a bit stringent perhaps, but I get pretty protective of my friends...

I don't have anything against you and would love to hear more about you and your relationship with your therapist and what is going on with you..
I hope that you will open up and tell us more about how you are doing and what brings you to PC soon...

Take care,
WB

[unaluna]

I just wanted to say, I wasn't chewing out anybody in particular - esp not wysteria - as you can see, we posted one minute apart, 2:46, 2:47 is how it shows on my phone. And I am always more protective of strangers, as the only thing I know for sure is that my family will always hurt me. Man we're messed up! But we're here! Love y'all!

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by Happy Chappy

Do I love my T?

I don't know if you do or not. Only you can really say. I think trying to work it out with your therapist might be helpful, though. They are trained in working with clients who express many different feelings, including love.

Originally Posted by Happy Chappy

I can only imagine how magnified these feelings must be after seeing a therapist over a long period of time.

That hasn't been my experience. I've been seeing my therapist for a few years but my feelings are pretty much the same now as in the first year. I think we're more used to each other now and more comfortable and relaxed, though, but I don't think our feelings are magnified. Is that how you have experienced your feelings in therapy? Interesting! There are many different ways that people experience therapy.

Originally Posted by Happy Chappy

I would however like to point out that these therapists are being paid to be there

I wonder why you want to point that out? Was that a hard realization for you in your therapy? Not everyone goes through that, but thanks for sharing your own experience.

[Yady Smith]

I’m delighted with the response here. If I wanted people to agree with me I would have titled the post ‘I hate my T’ and it would have been quite simple to have everybody who opened the page agree wholeheartedly with me.

I think it is very important that we at least acknowledge that there may be some issue surrounding this topic. Perhaps it might be worth giving a little thought as to just what is, or isn’t going on.

Many people underestimate the ability of the therapist in general. A good therapist does indeed direct how things progress and he/she does guide things in a certain direction.
This above all else is their job. He/she uses open questions ‘who, what, where, why, when?’ to encourage you to open up a certain part of yourself.
He/she is fully aware of what he is doing when he asks these questions.

Of course a ‘relationship’ develops between you, and of course the therapist will have feelings for you. I used the analogy of the teacher before, and I believe that it is entirely appropriate. Your therapist is a teacher. It might not be geography they’re teaching but they are teachers all the same.
God bless the therapist. They are great people with an intimate knowledge of how the human mind works. But it is worth bearing in mind that they are still coming at things from a completely different direction than you are.

I can only hope that someone somewhere can see what I’m trying to do. I’m definitely not trying to invalidate any emotions you might feel. But it might be in your own best interest to try to take a step back and look at things objectively. You could be saving yourself from a world of hurt. I’m not saying that you’re not doing this now. That's solely for you to decide.

I hope your relationship with your therapist stays as strong and pure as it seems to be at the present time. And I hope also that I provoke as much thought as I have responses, and controversy. I wish you all nothing but the best, and I hope you end up being happy and content.

Good Luck, and I mean this with all my heart!

John.

[unaluna]

I'm glad we didn't entirely scare you off. I don't understand the response here. We have discussed this topic a million times, at least - is this a "real" relationship - yet just because this guy comes in and says he "noticed" something - which anyone in therapy should realize may say more about himself - we attack and talk down to him? The viciousness of the attack makes me wonder. I don't think you all were defending me in particular, or others who post in the Romantic feelings forum. So why such a primal response? What are we really in denial about? HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO KNOW???* We're in denial! Therapy sux! *Answer: let T help us. So easy, yet it's not.

Thanks, John. Otherwise Saturday night would have been so boring!

[elliemay]

Originally Posted by Happy Chappy

I've been trawling through some of these posts recently and I've found that a common theme is the one concerning our relationships with our therapists. While I have only had some very limited experiences in this area, I have had enough to have felt these types of emotions towards both male and female Ts.

I can only imagine how magnified these feelings must be after seeing a therapist over a long period of time.

I would however like to point out that these therapists are being paid to be there, and if they were not being paid they would not be there. It really is that simple, cold but simple. The emotions are very real, but they are your emotions and not those of your therapist.

Good luck!

Oh sure, if they were not being paid, they wouldn't be there. That is so true, but I'm not sure it changes anything, or minimizes what can occur when therapy is successful. It is what it is.

Also, in my experience, the feelings toward and about the therapist become much much less acute over a period of time, rather than the opposite.

At first, there is this "OH MY GOD" kind of feeling, it's really strange to pin down exactly what happens, but, for me, it was like a kind of panic. I transferred so much crap onto my therapist. My rational mind just couldn't figure out exactly who this person was (still can't). Things level out though. The waters settle.

Also, I notice you bolded somewhere in one of your posts that the "relationship is the problem". That is absolutely true I think, but the odd thing is, it's also a big part of the "solution" to what ails. Strange as that may seem, I think it is true. Working all the associated crap out that comes with this relationship is, for some, a huge part of healing. It's necessary, but not sufficient to be sure.

It's neither good nor bad, but there.

Also, I don't want to paint in broad strokes here, but I'm a chic. Always have been . I've learned that for me, and a lot of other women, EVERYTHING is about a relationship of some kind. It seems to be what women do - form and fight to relationships. Why would my therapy be any different?

Originally Posted by hankster

we attack and talk down to him? The viciousness of the attack makes me wonder.

I don't think this is a fair or accurate description of what has happened here. Some people have been critical of what he has "offered"-- speaking only for myself-- because he is not sharing his own experience, but pontificating (and not in a particularly thoughtful or insightful way) about the problems "people" have in their therapeutic relationships. He bored me and I felt his attitude was judgmental. I don't really feel there's much of a role for an unacredited Professor of Therapy here.

But, mostly, I feel like you are attacking those who have said that they don't care for what he's said or how he's said it. Seems pretty hypocritical to me. I think it's healthy for people to disagree and I especially think it's healthy when people speak honestly about how they feel about what someone's written here. In a perfect world, we'd all be polite and respectful in every dimension all the time in our disagreements. But at least I can't always live up to that. And underlying all of this is that I refuse to pretend or be fake in any way here (or in my life either). I call them as I see them and I'm okay with people disagreeing with me but I am so not, not, not okay with someone saying that it's "vicious" or "attacking" or otherwise implying that it's not okay to state your opinion that someone is speaking in a way that is not useful or interesting to me.

Disagreement and conflict should be okay here. I adore you, hanky, but I feel as if you are trying to silence these in this thread, and that's tough for me to take. I have no doubt that I am super sensitive and probably overreacting given my history, but that's how I feel.

Anne