[rainbow8]

I'm rarely critical of my T but something she said last Tuesday rubbed me the wrong way. At the end of the session, she said (she's asked me this a few times in the past) "but you don't want to leave your marriage, do you?" Then she added something like "you're young (don't know why she said that because I'm NOT), you could...." I don't know if she said find someone else, or what but that's what she meant.

Now, from the way I talk about my marriage, she knows I've always wished that my H could meet my needs better, and I mentioned that long ago I thought briefly about divorce, but I know I never would leave him. We've been married too many years.

I wonder if she was out-of-line for suggesting, it seems, that I get divorced. Confirming that I don't want to end my marriage is okay, but the way she sounded was like she was putting thoughts into my head about what SHE thinks I should do. I don't mind that she recommended yoga and meditation, but this seemed a bit much. What does anyone think? I already emailed her about it, and I'll bring it up at my next session.

I think you need to clarify with her. Knowing what she meant sounds like projection. Ask her.

[SoupDragon]

Yes I would suggest that you talk this through with her.

She shouldn't be telling you how to live your life, but I know I have an on-going issue with my ex husband still coming to my house and dominating me and T dops hints that maybe this is not the best siuituation for me to be continuing in.

But if you talk to T you may understand what she meant, but you will also be able to clarify your views with T, that you do not want to leave your husband.

SD

[growlycat]

That is a tough one! It sounds a wee bit over the line, but she sounds like she is looking out for you! Maybe she is concerned that you wouldn't consider divorce as an option. If your husband is willing to work on his issues then divorce seems like bad advice. However, if he is refusing to budge maybe that's why she is urging you to think about it (not the same as acting on it!) I can see the unfairness of one partner trying to grow and improve while the other does no relationship work at all.

Geez, I hope I'm not stepping over a line myself!

[Perna]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

but the way she sounded was like she was putting thoughts into my head

You are a grown up so forget about people putting thoughts into your head; you aren't a gullible kid and what would your T have to gain from doing so in the first place?

"You're young, you could. . ." is just sounding you out. She asked/was making sure of, "but you don't want to leave your marriage, do you?" and that you weren't staying just because you didn't "think" you could leave or had not seriously considered it. You did not play along with the make believe, the if-I-weren't-married-I-could. . . daydream. I might have played, not doing so seems a little defensive to me; as if thinking about alternatives could make them happen (or as if other people could make them happen to you by putting the thought into your head).

Other people are not here to meet our needs. That's our job, getting our meets met. If your needs are not being met, and you think your husband should be meeting them and he is not, the only choice for you is to find someone else who you think will, yes? We can't "make" other people do anything. I don't know what "needs" you are referring to; economic, sexual, emotional, etc. . . but if you are not meeting them/getting them met and you stick around trying to meet/get them met in the same way, what happens? You become stuck and/or depressed.

So what am I saying (probably badly, if not too baldly, I am not trying to hurt your feelings or upset you)? Our and other people's thoughts are not actions. Daydreaming about "when I'm rich. . .", "when my prince comes. . .", "I am young enough; if I weren't married to John I could. . ." cannot make those things happen (or we would have all become millionaires a long time ago from winning the lottery :-) but they can get our creative juices going so we can see different perspectives, one's other than the one's that are plaguing us now. It is a way to look at possibilities. So many people have been frightened or hurt so are afraid of daydreaming, "when I'm rich" reminds them that they are not and so they stop instead of finishing the thought. "When I am rich, I will buy myself ten years of therapy." That completed thought helps me see what I really want. It's the being rich, but therapy. But I have trouble with fantasizing, seeing further than right this second, so I miss information about myself and what I want and thus, cannot help myself get it.

"I am young enough; if I weren't married to John I could travel to Spain."
"I am young enough; if I weren't married to John I could pursue a degree in Art History and work at a museum."
"I am young enough; if I weren't married to John I could climb Mount Everest."

Completing the sentence allows us to not only look at what we really want but then try to figure out how to get it, even though we are married to John! It is easy to say, "John is not meeting my needs" but do we know our true needs and desires? If not married to John, what could happen? Who would I be (who am I other than John's wife, in other words)?

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I'm rarely critical of my T but something she said last Tuesday rubbed me the wrong way. At the end of the session, she said (she's asked me this a few times in the past) "but you don't want to leave your marriage, do you?" Then she added something like "you're young (don't know why she said that because I'm NOT), you could...." I don't know if she said find someone else, or what but that's what she meant.

Now, from the way I talk about my marriage, she knows I've always wished that my H could meet my needs better, and I mentioned that long ago I thought briefly about divorce, but I know I never would leave him. We've been married too many years.

I wonder if she was out-of-line for suggesting, it seems, that I get divorced. Confirming that I don't want to end my marriage is okay, but the way she sounded was like she was putting thoughts into my head about what SHE thinks I should do. I don't mind that she recommended yoga and meditation, but this seemed a bit much. What does anyone think? I already emailed her about it, and I'll bring it up at my next session.

Sometimes my T thinks my answers are too pat, that I don't think enough about how I feel. Then she will challenge me.

There are two ways of doing this (here come the bullet points!)
1. To suggest the opposite of what I've said.
2. To suggest beyond what I've said.

This looks like a type 2 challenge.

[ECHOES]

It sounds to me like she is acknowledging and confirming that you don't want to leave your marriage. Then she is going and exploring the 'what if' you did want to leave. What might be the good things about that, what might you want for yourself if you were on your own, how would your needs get met then, what would your life look like, etc. as a way of exploring and discovering what you want now, what is important to you now, and what could help make your marriage more like you want it to be.
Sometimes our desires are points to reach, but we need clarification of where we are and how to get to those points.

[unaluna]

I think it comes down to, do you trust T? If you trust T, then I would think T is echoing back to me what they hear me saying "between the lines", what my unconscious is blurting out that I don't hear, but is more apparent to them. That might be why it feels like they are "putting" these thoughts in our heads, but it's more like they're just brushing away the dirt covering them, so we can see them. That it struck a nerve, that it riled you up - makes me think mayhaps the lady doth protest too much. Altho it could be like you're AFRAID you're gay, that's why you have this "thing" for your lady T's, so to suggest divorce "proves" it? Bunk - it doesn't "prove" anything. I like Perna's plan - don't be afraid of the thoughts, just follow them out, good or bad, see what shoe fits.

[granite1]

i think she was just pointing out that you have options in your life that if you do want out of your marriage that you are able to do that.i don't see that she is telling you in any way that you should leave your marriage at all.but i do think that she wants you to be able to feel free to explore all your options and that being one of them

[sunrise]

I think it was OK. I think she was just throwing out a feeler to see if maybe the reason you didn't want to leave the marriage was because you thought you were too old. I was actually more uncertain of her first sentence than the one about being young. She said "you don't want to leave your marriage, do you?" I think something more open-ending would have been good. But I guess she was referring to things you've told her before. Still, it seemed a really closed way to state it, with no space for the client. Also, I wouldn't interpret the "you're young" comment to mean she thought you could find someone else. It could mean a lot of things.

I think a frequent approach in therapy is for the T to make a statement, and then it is up to the client to react to it and tell the T yes that's how it is with me, or no, it''s more like this, T. (My daughter's T has used this a lot with her!) So the T doesn't even have to be "right" in what they said--it's an opening for you to clarify how things truly are with you. So you might have responded to her with something like, "no, it's not that I'm worried about being too old, it's that I really like my H" (or whatever the case may be). Then the T learns more about you.

I hope you and she can discuss it. Not just the part about the marriage but about your concern that she was out of line.

This conversation has come up a few times over the years with my T. I've always seen it as a way to allow me to express my feelings about this if I need to. My T has several times very clearly stated that he does not ever advocate for divorce; it is a clear boundary of his. Basically he means it is not his job or his right to recommend divorce. I didn't gather from what you wrote that your T was at all advocating that you divorce your husband. She was feeling you out for your ideas on this and allowing an opening for such conversations.

[rainbow8]

earthmamma: Well, she did finish that sentence but I can't remember her exact words. It was something like "you can find someone else".

Soup Dragon: Thanks. She knows I don't want to leave him. I think she wonders "why not?"

growlycat: No, you're not overstepping a line. I think in my case it's that neither of us is working on our marriage but I complain about it; he doesn't.

Perna: I did tell my T that I thought about it years ago but that I'd never do anything about it. I've always been dependent, would never have gotten along on my own, or never wanted to risk it, never would have done that to my H, either. In other words, I did not want to admit that maybe I made a mistake. I tend to stick things out, even marriages.

I think I see what you're saying but I'm not exactly sure. It's true that I could have left my marriage because I wasn't getting my needs met. Needs that I've been getting met through my pattern with other people and Ts. It's also true that I haven't been trying very hard with my H. My T says I tend to "check out of my marriage." So, I resorted to the wrong kind of daydreaming. The better kind would have been: how can I reconnect with my H? Constructive daydreaming. Instead, I've gone my separate way with some of my dreams, which is good!! Now I have to get back to my H and see if I can make things better.

CantExplain: Do you mean that my T went beyond what I said to what she thinks I may be thinking but am too afraid to think? Could be true. probably is, but it's too late now. I'm not going anywhere.

ECHOES: What you posted is more therapeutic. I just have a feeling that my T was honestly thinking about loud and telling me that I COULD leave him if I wanted to.

Hankster: This time you're right. I sometimes think I could have been much happier with someone else, but then again, maybe if I were with someone else, I may STILL have dreamed about someone else, on and on like my pattern. I've had a stable marriage, not too exciting, but not awful. We get along and I've got security. He's a good guy and I take him for granted too much. I doubt whether I'm gay. I wouldn't want to touch another woman but I don't care who touches me, man or woman. I don't know what I am. Just selfish maybe.

granite: that makes a lot of sense. Thanks.

sunrise: My T has told me that "you don't want to leave your marriage, do you?" line a few times. Last week and the week before. Last year too. I sort of remember that she said something about "you could find someone else" after the "you're young" comment. I don't know how she could think I'm young, but thinking of someone close to me who remarried at 79 or 80 makes me think she's right. Yes, I'm going to discuss it with her.

farmergirl: you're probably right. Thank you.

[Perna]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

It's true that I could have left my marriage because I wasn't getting my needs met. Needs that I've been getting met through my pattern with other people and Ts.

Other people cannot know or meet our needs. My husband's first wife complained because he "didn't make her happy". Assuming other people are there to act "on"/for us, we can't get happiness/needs met that way because they cannot know what we want/need and we cannot get them to do things for us (as they are busy feeling/doing things for themselves and meeting their own needs). We are doomed to be constantly frustrated or have people push us away because we are too clingy and in the way of their getting their own needs met.

Daydreams are just thoughts, like books, there is no "action" happening. They are not the actual experience of getting our needs met, they are supposed to be the planning stage for action. But we cannot plan well if we do not know what we want, to begin with. "Someone to hold me" is not a want, it is an action that is happening that makes us feel good.

"Wanting" someone to hold me, requires I look for a someone. I might never find one! Even "I wish John would hold me" requires John to do something, in order for me to get held.

Instead, imagining I am being held, is a picture/fantasy and we can use it to figure out how we can get there, leading up to that picture/fantasy; tell a little "story" which makes a possible plan. Knowing I want to be held and picturing myself "going there", I can walk up to someone and say, "I want a hug!" or I can stand in front of someone and hold my arms out (use body language), or I can make an appointment with someone ("Will you be available to give me a hug at 7:10 this evening?" :-) But all these plans, require my action, not the other person's. The other person responds rather than initiates. One cannot "imagine" wanting John to hold me; there's no action there, it never gets started.

My husband and I have a "step" thing; when I stand on a single step (we use to have one in the middle of our office at our old house; my "half" of the office was above the step and about 3/4th of the room and my DH's was below the step and 1/4th :-) he and I are the "right" height and fit extremely well together. So, when he wants a hug, he goes to the bottom of a step and stands there grinning until I notice what he is doing or I go and stand on a step and do the same thing We definitely look like crazy loons running when we see a single step anywhere and standing (often with our back to the other person :-) waiting patiently. My husband even orders, "Assume the position!" LOL

I treasured when my T made me feel good but I didn't tell her, I just maneuvered the situation as best I could so that we'd end up in that position; I literally "stole" my good feelings from her as she had no input; in a sense (rather crude) masturbated to thoughts of a person rather than asking that person for sex. That's "okay" but not the real experience of bonding with another person! My T said it was like she had a picnic spread out for us and I was a feral child who made sure she wasn't watching when I reached out and grabbed food off the table

It was a very hard concept for me to learn, how to initiate/join the picnic instead of feeling dependent on other providers to "let" me have some food.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by Perna

My husband and I have a "step" thing; when I stand on a single step (we use to have one in the middle of our office at our old house; my "half" of the office was above the step and about 3/4th of the room and my DH's was below the step and 1/4th :-) he and I are the "right" height and fit extremely well together. So, when he wants a hug, he goes to the bottom of a step and stands there grinning until I notice what he is doing or I go and stand on a step and do the same thing We definitely look like crazy loons running when we see a single step anywhere and standing (often with our back to the other person :-) waiting patiently. My husband even orders, "Assume the position!" LOL.

I think this is lovely and wonderful. I'd like to see more of this side of you.

[rainbow8]

Perna, thank you for sharing!!! I like the way you and your H manage hugs!! I also really like your picnic analogy. I know it relates to me in that I usually wait for the picnic to come to me and rarely initiate anything. But what if one spouse (me) wants everything and the other doesn't want a hug or anything? I'm always the needy one.