[InTherapy]

Another thread made me start wondering about this.

Do you think it's ever appropriate for a T to get angry with a client? I can't think of any situation where it would be appropriate... but it seems wrong to say that a T can never get angry.

Can anyone think of any times that it would be appropriate? Has your T ever shown himself to be angry with you?

[pbutton]

I think they're perfectly entitled to get angry. I do have concerns regarding how and why they'd show that anger.

I'd think that with their training they would have a better understanding of why people do the things that they do. Hopefully that would help neutralize their anger.

My T hasn't ever shown anger, but he has said he was frustrated.

[carla.cdt]

I had a therapist that sometime said she was angry at what I did, not me, but actions I would have done. And I think the anger was normal in the circumstance. She is a human being with emotion.
Her saying she was angry made me realize that my actions do affect other people in my life.

[SoupDragon]

In real life people may become angry, so maybe it is good to practice with T?

I have been on the receiving end of a therapist anger that was deserving... I pushed boundaries and lied, I pressed the boundaries one too many times ... They too have a right to refuse service... They are contract labor, they are also human. I think that xT should have let the emotion subside prior to telling me about the anger but again, human.

[sunrise]

My T acted pissed off at least once, but we dealt with it. It wasn't harmful. It let me know that he's a real person too, not a wall. It was a good discussion and felt very real. I actually have a big problem when people get angry with me--I kind of shrink and go away. I have often thought it would be helpful to me if my T would get angry at me, deliberately, kind of as an exposure therapy of sorts. I don't really think he would agree to this, though, and I'm not sure if it would be appropriate. As long as I knew he was doing it just to provide a stimulus to desensitize me, I think I would be OK with it, but he may think differently. I haven't suggested it.

I think some Ts may use anger for its shock value--acting angry when they hear of a client's abuse, for example, as a way to make the client sit up, take notice, and stop minimizing what has happened to them and take the abuse seriously. The anger is a way of saying, "hey, that is NOT okay!" about the abuse, and may be more effective than saying quietly, "I don't like how that person treated you, Ms. Client." The message has a better shot of getting through when expressed vehemently. Like recently, I was relating to T a situation where I'm working on a relationship with someone and I reported that this person told me I was too sensitive. T reacted with some vehemence (anger?) when I told him that, and told me I am not too sensitive, that the other person's saying that was just a way of them excusing their own behavior, etc. It really was not harmful to me to have T react that way. It makes me remember our exchange better because of that.

InTherapy, has your T ever gotten angry with you? Is your belief in anger's inappropriateness based on personal experience with your T?

[stopdog]

I think it depends. I don't think I would be put off if a therapist was angry over being assaulted physically or taken for a lot of money (although one might wonder why the therapist let it get out of hand) but I do not know why they would bother getting angry over things like just how the client is or if the client did not following their advice or not changing the way the therapist thought they should or not progressing like the therapist thought they should - stuff like that is not the thing I would expect a therapist to get angry over and if they did - I would think they needed their own therapy/supervision to get their stuff out of the clients. I would really be put out if they tried to use anger to manipulate me.

[InTherapy]

Originally Posted by sunrise

InTherapy, has your T ever gotten angry with you? Is your belief in anger's inappropriateness based on personal experience with your T?

I only started therapy around Christmas. He has not yet gotten angry with me.

The closest he got wasn't even something he said that I could point to: I mentioned how when I got angry with my boyfriend I sometimes called him "dumb" or "stupid" and how I knew I really shouldn't do that. He didn't even say anything, but his posture, sudden narrowing of his eyes, let me know that he was less than thrilled about this confession and didn't approve.

I wouldn't call it a "belief". I'm unsure how to think about it. I was hoping some more people would give specific examples of WHEN their Ts got mad at them (like the abuse example. Makes perfect sense.) Because I don't think a T should do anything that won't directly benefit the client. But I have a hard time thinking of any examples of when that WOULD be beneficial.

[shoez]

I say sorry alot...nearly all the time...even when nothing is happening...Like...it could just be silent and ill say sorry...cuz i always feel like im doing something wrong.
And once I said im sorry for like the millionth time and my T just bursted and said "STOP IT "

......................I got scared.... but i knew she didnt mean it to be scary. but I was scared nevertheless....I cant help saying sorry. Its like by default.

and one time she was stern with me cuz i was crying all over the place like a baby terrified that she was mad..

Shes not angry...just stern...cuz i always need so much reassurance about stuff

*do u think i shud tell her i got scared?*





.

[Perna]

I think, especially at first, it is hard to tell the difference between "anger" and other strong emotion/emphasis? A T's desire to be understood can cause an intensity that can be mistaken for anger sometimes I believe. That the T may have a different opinion is not "anger" either, but I think that often, if we are not agreed with we can think the other person is "against" us or angry at us or that we're "wrong", etc.

[missbelle]

Yes, I can see where it might be very appropriate for a T to get angry with a client/patient. T's are human and when a T sees a client not listening, saying the same things over and over, and staying in the problem, or acting like a victim, and refusing to get out of that mode, or still exhibiting dangerous behavior, then I can see where a T would loose thier cool.

A T even though they are paid has a lot vested in a client. Lots of time, caring etc. A T wants a client to succeed and get well. Thats what they are there for. To have their efforts going in vain would anger anyone and a T is no exception.

It may even be good for a client to see a little anger to realize that there really is someone who cares about them.

[lostmyway21]

I have seen my T frustrated at me. I am sure T's have to be VERY careful to which client they demonstrate anger with. He makes it a point every session to remind me, that no matter how my feelings change he remains the same. I can't regulate my emotions that well, and I have a lot of cognitive distortions. He offers his stability to me, and now I rely on it. If he were to get angry, upset or to emotional I wouldn't know what to do, it would ruin our relationship.

I'm pretty certain my T has felt anger towards me on occasion, but he has never demonstrated that anger. He has expressed frustration with me though. Seems like he once said frustration is just another word for/form of anger. Hmm.

[carla.cdt]

I was hoping some more people would give specific examples of WHEN their Ts got mad at them (like the abuse example. Makes perfect sense.) Because I don't think a T should do anything that won't directly benefit the client. .[/quote]

Here is the reason my therapist got a bit angry at my actions. I had created a fake email address and sent anonymous suicidal threats to him and all other DBT therapists in the team. I didn't deserve the angry feeling and did what I had to do to repair the situation and relation I had develop with each therapist. My actions had cause major problems for 2 weeks to all DBT team members.

[WePow]

My T lets me know sometimes what emotion he feels. I think he is mirroring to me how to name emotions. "I feel sad that I missed you saying that in session last week." or he will say "I feel angry about what your father did to you."
Sometimes I can see if I push his button about something. He shifts and withdraws emotionally to keep himself safe. Then I appologize as soon as I realize what is going on and he comes back :-)

[tohelpafriend]

I think that is great insight, Perna. Last week my T, for the first time, took a definite, "defensive/angry"...., i.e., 'you crossed my boundaries',
tactic against me. She was stolid and insisted she felt attacked after I 'assertively' (good practice for me), asked politely for my medical record, or how to procure it, as I had asked her for this some 3 months ago. ?: maybe she felt I wanted to delve into her notes? Maybe she felt guilty?
The issue was over my meds being abruptly stopped after I reported a serious, breathing side effect after 6 days and the Dr. would not re-prescribe, part of the clinic's contract with me. She always insisted I must "pull to respond", and "push to react." I realized a very primal fact: when we are threatened, we do get angry...it's a survival emotion. But I knew I was not angry at her. A few days later I saw something else: her balance of power with me had been challenged or threatened...and the horrifying thought of how my mother had crushed my will,, talents and ambition as a young girl came hurling back to me...THIS was the problem....an indomitable personality refusing to accept submiission toany mortal again and rising up to demand my rights. I think she was having a stressful day and I just don't like her anymore. Moving on...Anyone ever experienced this before in T....a revelation of what you've suffered from all your life? Well, it was all worth it then....

Originally Posted by carla.cdt

I was hoping some more people would give specific examples of WHEN their Ts got mad at them (like the abuse example. Makes perfect sense.) Because I don't think a T should do anything that won't directly benefit the client. .

Here is the reason my therapist got a bit angry at my actions. I had created a fake email address and sent anonymous suicidal threats to him and all other DBT therapists in the team. I didn't deserve the angry feeling and did what I had to do to repair the situation and relation I had develop with each therapist. My actions had cause major problems for 2 weeks to all DBT team members.[/QUOTE]

Was it a typo when you wrote "I didn't deserve the angry feeling. . ."? I'm just trying to clarify what you wrote as that statement seems contradictory to what else you said about the incident.

[carla.cdt]

I did deserve the angry feeling! Typo

[Kacey2]

Originally Posted by carla.cdt

Here is the reason my therapist got a bit angry at my actions. I had created a fake email address and sent anonymous suicidal threats to him and all other DBT therapists in the team. I didn't deserve the angry feeling and did what I had to do to repair the situation and relation I had develop with each therapist. My actions had cause major problems for 2 weeks to all DBT team members.

Why did you do this?

Originally Posted by carla.cdt

I did deserve the angry feeling! Typo

Thanks for the clarification. I would bet they were angry for what happened. Sounds like you were able to work through it though.

I can't think of a specific incident because he has never said he was angry with me, but I'm pretty certain my suicide attempts caused him a great deal of grief, anger, fear, and mostly frustration. I do hear from him about his frustration on a fairly regular basis, often communicated humorously, but sometimes quite seriously.

My T got a bit angry at my husband and me. T was trying convince me that my childhood really was "that" bad. I always say I wasn't THAT bad because that didn't burn me with cigarettes or starve me or whatever. My T says the constant nature of the abuse makes it THAT bad despite the fact that I have no physical scars. I told my husband about this discussion and he used almost my identical words on saying why it wasn't THAT bad. I thought that was very funny and told T about the conversation with my husband.

So, T was furious with my husband for undermining the work we're doing, and somewhat angry at me that I thought it was so funny. He expressed his anger and I kinda went, "huh," and then we just sort of went on.

[crazycanbegood]

I have "frustrated" my T and former pdocs SEVERAL times. Though my T calls it frustration, I call it anger. Not need to sugarcoat it. I know how I can be sometimes.

[anilam]

Being angry is human so Ts can be/get angry at their clients. However, I can't think of any situation in therapy where it would be beneficial for the client if the T would act upon it (yelling and all that stuff).

BTW I have tried to make my T angry at me. Have pushed his buttons really hard and was pretty nasty just to see him loosing it. Never have I succeed (thank God). When asked my T admitted he was angry at first but than he immediately started to think why I was acting that way. Typical behavior for a T...

[critterlady]

My current T has never even so much as shown disappointment in me, but I've only been seeing him a couple of months.

My previous T got frustrated with me a couple of times. Once, we'd been working on self-care and I was talking about something I'd done the weekend before that I love to do, but don't have time to do every week. I said I didn't have time for it every week and he got annoyed and said "So, self-care goes out the window?" Me: "I didn't say that." Him (pretty loudly): "No, I did!"

We did talk about it, though.

[Towanda]

My T has on several occasion shown what I would label determination in his speech and body language but has never shown anger despite everything I've put him through over the last six years. And that includes such things as raging nasty emails, SI in my car in his parking lot, and having to call the cops on me when I threatened suicide in his office. I don't know how he does it - the man is absolutely unflappable.

I did, however, see him show anger at my abuser the day I talked about SA as a little 5 yo girl, and I never want to be the target of that anger.