[SoupDragon]

On an intellectual level I understand the theory about there being different parts to us - but when I really try to apply this to me, I just can't get my head round it - I am still stuck with where those parts are located in me and how I know if it is me, or a certain "part" of me that is thinking / feeling something - when I am being "childish" is not that just "me" being silly or is it my "child" part.

I can swing from being silly to being authoritarian and in control, confident to a incompetent wreck - I just am so struggling to try and understand what this means for "me".

I would appreaciate hearing others experiences / views / links as right now this whole issue is occupying the whole of my head space and driving me to an "ahhhhhh! please get out of my head" moment.

[lostmyway21]

I can relate this to what I'm going through right now. My child part tends to very different then my normal adult self. Like I can see two very same concepts in two very different views depending what state of mind I am in. They are very conflicting, and hard to understand. I am trying to accept both parts right now. I don't really know much yet, we just started working on my kid part last week. I can swing from in control to an incompetent wreck too.

[SoupDragon]

Originally Posted by lostmyway21

I can relate this to what I'm going through right now. My child part tends to very different then my normal adult self. Like I can see two very same concepts in two very different views depending what state of mind I am in. They are very conflicting, and hard to understand. I am trying to accept both parts right now. I don't really know much yet, we just started working on my kid part last week. I can swing from in control to an incompetent wreck too.

Thanks lostmyway and for the reassurance that I am not the only incompetent wreck in the world - but I wonder how do you know which one is you? Are we adults with child parts or children with adult parts - or are "we" another part separate from both of these?

My head is now telling me to slow up and just be patient and the answers will come to me in time....but then there is the "part" that wants to know NOW!!! Hmmm what part is that????

[lostmyway21]

I can pretty much recognize which is which by my reaction to the situation. The more logical, the more likely it is not the child part. Or if I am especially impulsive, or emotionally reactive to a situation, then it more likely IS the child part. I assume I'm adult with child parts. Because I am obviously an adult, but I just have certain stuck points where things didn't go right and I didn't learn the right ways to cope with things that happened or get my basic child needs met, and I need to relearn them. At least I think? Lol.

[shoez]

I can write a book on how this completely has been affecting my life for years and years...
only since I found PC, was I able to hear of other people experiencing such things.
Im not sure what it is *exactly* but I have parts that are
-very academically/work competent and responsible
-some reckless
- a child

lots of more stuff but when I switch to them...I dont feel like its just "me being childish" because....I actually do childish things like sit there with a blanket and watch kid shows...and a few hours later I could be like "what? I would NEVER EVER DO THAT EWW"...
I mean one thing is acting a certain way and knowing its just something you felt like doing...and another thing is not relating at all to why /how/what was the purpose why you did those things...

It drives me crazy on a daily basis..
I dont know if this is what you are talking about?

sorry if I was no help!

[SoupDragon]

Originally Posted by shoez

I can write a book on how this completely has been affecting my life for years and years...
only since I found PC, was I able to hear of other people experiencing such things.
Im not sure what it is *exactly* but I have parts that are
-very academically/work competent and responsible
-some reckless
- a child

lots of more stuff but when I switch to them...I dont feel like its just "me being childish" because....I actually do childish things like sit there with a blanket and watch kid shows...and a few hours later I could be like "what? I would NEVER EVER DO THAT EWW"...
I mean one thing is acting a certain way and knowing its just something you felt like doing...and another thing is not relating at all to why /how/what was the purpose why you did those things...

It drives me crazy on a daily basis..
I dont know if this is what you are talking about?

sorry if I was no help!

On the contrary shoez, this is exactly what I experience. I can be a certain way and feel totally comfortable with it at the time, then afterwards think oh my goodness I can't believe I was doing that how silly (or whatever my judgement is at the time). It all feels so real and natural at the time.

Sometimes when I am feeling utterly confident, it feels so good, but a little unfamiliar, then suddenly as if a switch is flicked I feel really anxious and incompetent.

Does work with T stop all these different "parts" from confusing me and just allow me to be "me" (whoever that is?). Sometimes I wonder if it is "normal" and just what others experience anyway, but it is just something that I am more conscious of.

[elliemay]

I do not believe in the whole parts idea. I think it stifles and splits the fact that you are one whole person - adult and with active agency in your own life. We all have aspects of ourselves that act differently. We all have different roles and behaviours that we exhibit given the situation.

It's not a pathology, it's us. Sometimes we may feel like we are opposite sides of the coin, but, bottom line, it is the same coin.

I think what is really at issue here is "what is my authentic, honest self". I believe that they all are. None of the emotions or reactions that we experience are false, but originate from us - a whole individual with adult and competent volition in our lives.

I know that some therapies encourage exploration of these parts, actually promote giving them names and independent voices, but the thing is, the thing that these therapies strive for is integration of these parts. In my opinion, they never were really separate to begin with. It's an exercise in spinning one's wheels in order to get to the same place.

Just my opinion, but the truth the way I see it.

[SoupDragon]

Originally Posted by elliemay

I do not believe in the whole parts idea. I think it stifles and splits the fact that you are one whole person - adult and with active agency in your own life. We all have aspects of ourselves that act differently. We all have different roles and behaviours that we exhibit given the situation.

It's not a pathology, it's us. Sometimes we may feel like we are opposite sides of the coin, but, bottom line, it is the same coin.

I think what is really at issue here is "what is my authentic, honest self". I believe that they all are. None of the emotions or reactions that we experience are false, but originate from us - a whole individual with adult and competent volition in our lives.

I know that some therapies encourage exploration of these parts, actually promote giving them names and independent voices, but the thing is, the thing that these therapies strive for is integration of these parts. In my opinion, they never were really separate to begin with. It's an exercise in spinning one's wheels in order to get to the same place.

Just my opinion, but the truth the way I see it.

Thanks elliemay - I want to be one person, I believe I am one person, or one "me" - and yes I can relate to that one authentic self - I thought I knew who I was but that has been blown apart over the last few years and I have been left feeling as I have been blown into many small pieces - actually an analogy has just come to me.

A china caup has a purpose, a function and a value, yet may originate from many things (actually I don't know how china is made, but guess it consists of more that 1 substance) - it is is dropped it becomes many small pieces, each one unrecogonisable, bearing no resemblance to that china cup - it can be pieced back together, but it may take time to examine each piece to see where it fits - so is this what happens with trauma? Our whole it broken, fragmented, split, but slowly we have to piece it all back together?

Also maybe the china cup was never put together well in the first place, maybe there were flaws in it already which made it more susceptible to breakage? And maybe that piece of clay(?) actually never wanted to be a china cup, it wanted to be a plate or a cute ornament on a shelf....I could go on

The whole prospect of examining a "part" of me is fairly terrifying which is why I am trying to get a better understanding to make it feel safer.

[elliemay]

I ask only that you open your mind to the concept that you were never blown apart in the first place.

You just realized that "Oh my gosh! My cup has a handle!" Of course you would want to look at that handle, touch it.

It's always been there, it's always worked. You just didn't fully appreciate it's existence and the essential role it played for the functionality of the cup.

[shoez]

Originally Posted by SoupDragon

Thanks elliemay - I want to be one person, I believe I am one person, or one "me" - and yes I can relate to that one authentic self - I thought I knew who I was but that has been blown apart over the last few years and I have been left feeling as I have been blown into many small pieces - actually an analogy has just come to me.

A china caup has a purpose, a function and a value, yet may originate from many things (actually I don't know how china is made, but guess it consists of more that 1 substance) - it is is dropped it becomes many small pieces, each one unrecogonisable, bearing no resemblance to that china cup - it can be pieced back together, but it may take time to examine each piece to see where it fits - so is this what happens with trauma? Our whole it broken, fragmented, split, but slowly we have to piece it all back together?

Also maybe the china cup was never put together well in the first place, maybe there were flaws in it already which made it more susceptible to breakage? And maybe that piece of clay(?) actually never wanted to be a china cup, it wanted to be a plate or a cute ornament on a shelf....I could go on

The whole prospect of examining a "part" of me is fairly terrifying which is why I am trying to get a better understanding to make it feel safer.

I guess the problem with seeing myself as one person...is that the parts are so completely out of character for me...
I have a really reckless part that does really wild thing that I wouldnt do and even puts in dangerous situations...and at the time I think its me..but when I look back, I realize Ive done all this stuff and talked and behaved and even thought and believed in ways I just wouldnt....

Thats not me! I dont do that...
but I did...
and it doesnt make sense..
its just like..if it was as simple as "I feel like eating chocolate today" and tomorrow I dont...thats different..
but this is like living opposite lives. It feels like much more than "Darn I regret doing that"
and they cycle and come back whenever they want and leave and....its like having people enter your body..and do stuff and you can even watch them and think its you...but then your like..
but it cant be me because I wouldnt do that...
blah I talk to much.
I mean technically your right..I am just 1 person...but it feels like I have parts that are out of control

for me anyway

my T hasnt really understood this, but I dont like to talk about this in T a lot because it makes me nervous.

[elliemay]

Originally Posted by shoez

...but it cant be me because I wouldnt do that...
blah I talk to much.
I mean technically your right..I am just 1 person...but it feels like I have parts that are out of control

for me anyway

my T hasnt really understood this, but I dont like to talk about this in T a lot because it makes me nervous.

Oh no, you don't talk too much - maybe I do. Perhaps it's all as simple as this one radical thought in response to

"It can't be me because I wouldn't do that"

Well, guess what? You did. It was all you, all the time. What if you didn't divest yourself from the action, but simply said "I do that sometimes. I don't really like when I do that."

I would think it would give yourself back to yourself and allow *you* to take action.

[roads]

Ah, Soup, I'm so glad you brought this to the table today. It's one of those mental cubic puzzles I take out of my mental pocket & ponder now & again.

The best I've come up with is that this "I" has multiple means on every level, not only the physical one. Just as I may sign my name with either left or right hand, so might I approach a person differently. My father, e.g., did not like who I became as I grew up and would deal pleasantly only with the 12-yr old me--so if I wanted something, out came my 12-yr old. I wasn't conscious of this, but looking back I realize that it happened.

Similarly, if I go to Traffic Court, I am a quiet repentive senior. When I go to Immigration with my young friend, I'm an outraged US citizen demanding answers from beauracracy. Am I making sense?

Just as my right hand signs better and my left bears weight better, there are inner "parts" that excel in different situations--& I'm not consciously in charge of which comes out. I think that's where the bipolar issue can mess me up by sending the wrong tool for the job--whereas someone with no MI would always have the right tool at hand.

Just my take on how it works in my life, Soup.

Roadie

[rainbow8]

IFS model shows that we have many parts but that they are led by our one Self, whose job is to lead our parts in harmony. Many times my T has said "that's just one part of you" or "your parts are leading the show".

The child part wants to sit in T's lap and have her hold me. I feel like she's a child. The teenage part has a crush on my T. That's another part. My T says the Self accepts all of my parts and doesn't judge them.

Maybe you could look up Internal Family Systems for readings about the subject.

Another example: If you, for instance, want to lose weight. I do. One part of me would like to be thinner and healthier and is motivated to watch what I eat. However, another part doesn't care and just wants to satisfy her cravings for sweets. My T would work with the parts separately. We haven't done it about eating, but we could.

I know IFS isn't for everyone. I never thought I would like it or that it would help me. But it did.

My t also does IFS, although not as strictly as Rainbow's seems to. I've never heard her use the terms "child part" or "teenage part"- maybe she knows that would be a bit of a turn off for me. She does speak of the "protective part" or the "vulnerable part". At first, I balked at this idea too. I felt, like Ellie May, that I am all one person, not bits and pieces of a whole. However, I have come to at least accept the fact that these labels are useful as labels if nothing else: they are agreed upon terms that she and I can use to refer to a specific phenomena.

It's also true that these "parts" are not pathology. The big CEO who is a **** at work but gentle and loving with his family (or vice versa!) is still the same guy 24/7. But, wouldn't it be valuable for him to examine this dichotomy in his life? To be curious about why he acts in these different ways? Both behaviors are perfecly normal, and perhaps utterly necessary, but he could learn something if he acknowleged them.

That's how I came to accept the idea of "parts".

[SoupDragon]

lostmyway, shoez, elliemay, roadie, rainbow8 and lucydog - thank-you all so much for your help in this - there is a lot for me to think about here, some really useful things for me to explore (my background is scientific / statistical rather than arts or creativity so this is really hard for me to bend my mind around) - but yes I am willing to be open minded - the usual "medical model" has done nothing for me in solving this problem I have, so I am up for anything.

At the moment I am left with questions, why do I feel like this, is it normal / abnormal (yes I know there debate of "normality"), is there something wrong with me - not sure why these questions are important to me, maybe just because I have always felt different and if someone said yes we classify you as x,y,z at least it would stop some of the wondering - although maybe it would create more questions.

Thanks again - Soup

[elliemay]

Originally Posted by lucydog

My t also does IFS, although not as strictly as Rainbow's seems to. I've never heard her use the terms "child part" or "teenage part"- maybe she knows that would be a bit of a turn off for me. She does speak of the "protective part" or the "vulnerable part". At first, I balked at this idea too. I felt, like Ellie May, that I am all one person, not bits and pieces of a whole. However, I have come to at least accept the fact that these labels are useful as labels if nothing else: they are agreed upon terms that she and I can use to refer to a specific phenomena.

It's also true that these "parts" are not pathology. The big CEO who is a **** at work but gentle and loving with his family (or vice versa!) is still the same guy 24/7. But, wouldn't it be valuable for him to examine this dichotomy in his life? To be curious about why he acts in these different ways? Both behaviors are perfecly normal, and perhaps utterly necessary, but he could learn something if he acknowleged them.

That's how I came to accept the idea of "parts".

Of course we should look at our different behaviours and understand why we act that way.

I agree with your therapist though, as I think it is not a good idea to pull them out as separate and distinct from the one true self that is us.

Okay, let's consider that I am an *** at work. I am loving at home. Asking why *I* act that way is essential to my growth. Asking why the CEO in me acts that way, to me splits that growth into pieces. I think that, when taken to extreme, this split allows us to divest ourselves from responsiblity and the ability to address our own problems.

The very idea of the fragmentation of self, promotes the fragmentation of self.

I think I am one person, whole, but flawed. I work on the flaws, I work on myself. I do not allow a part of me to carry the flaws. It's all me. It's my work as an adult to do.

I, too, was hesitant about the idea of parts when my T first talked about it. I am one person, after all! But it does very much describe me. There are parts of me that are at different developmental stages because my parents didn't properly parent me and abused me. Also, like lucydog said, my T talks about "protectors" and "exiles." The idea is to understand why/from what the protector is protecting me (often having to do with previous abuse patterns). Then we address these and teach this part that does behaviors to protect me, which though logical can hurt me, a new type of behavior that will make me healthier in my interactions toward others and myself. For example, because my parents didn't give me the unconditional love and support that I *needed* as a child, there is a part that seeks out such relationships from others, even now in my adult life. This leads to much heartache for me (and others). Do you ever feel like you fight with yourself? I do - I know that going to the gym will ease my depression, help me to lose weight, get me out of my house, etc. But then there's this other part of me that fights against going to the gym (and often wins...). So, we're working on understanding why this part exists and have it more in line with the logical part that knows that going to the gym.

I disagree with elliemay's statement: "The very idea of the fragmentation of self, promotes the fragmentation of self." I feel LESS fragmented since I began IFS. Elliemay, have you ever done IFS? If so and you found this, that's certainly valid, but if not, then perhaps you might want to try it and see if your hypothesis is indeed valid.

Elliemay- I hear you! I really struggled with this. I really felt uncomfortable with different "parts". I am me- I want to take full adult responsibiilty for my actions and learn how to be a good, wise person.

But, back to our CEO, he also notices that he is a **** to the supermarket checkout girl; and yet he has infinite patience when he volunteers at the local boys and girls club. Intersting, no? When he sits in t, he and his t may find it convenient to label those different aspects of himself in order for a conversation and deeper understanding to take place.

When I do inner-child work in therapy my T always referes to that as a "Part" of me. Or like when you are trying to explain something to someone...do you ever use the phrase "well, part of me feels this way or part of me feels that way" For me, I can respond in many different ways to the same situation and those are different "parts" of me. Like I can respond childishly or very adult like. I think that goes hand in hand with regression in therapy. There was a post here awhile back that asked something about your real age vs the age you are in therapy. So, like, if you walk into T's office and suddenly you feel like your 6 or 12 or however old-I believe that is a "part" of you. But that's just my opinion and how it goes for me with my therapy, everyone is different. hope this helps.

[elliemay]

Originally Posted by eastcoaster

- I know that going to the gym will ease my depression, help me to lose weight, get me out of my house, etc. But then there's this other part of me that fights against going to the gym (and often wins...). So, we're working on understanding why this part exists and have it more in line with the logical part that knows that going to the gym..

Oh lord, I have absolutely no idea why I am so vocal about this on this Sunday morning. Perhaps I'm feeling "part-ish" myself, and it's just an exaggerated defense, don't know. BUT

This gym thing, I think, kind of illustrates what I'm essentially talking about. Let's say I need to go to the gym. I know that, but don't go.

Who is responsible for me not going? *I* can either take responsbility for not going OR I can shift that to a *part* of me that doesn't want to go.

I think by shifting it onto a part, and away from myself, then I am essentially robbing myself - the whole me, from the ability to fix it. The part, rather than me accepts responsibility. To me, it's splitting my own innate ability to effect change in my life.

I mean after all, it won't be a part of me on that treadmill, but all of me sweating and really hating it.

Originally Posted by eastcoaster

- I disagree with elliemay's statement: "The very idea of the fragmentation of self, promotes the fragmentation of self."

I absolutely 100% respect that you disagree, we all have our opinions. I like the discussion and hope it helps people to find a therapy that is right for them. We are all different.

Originally Posted by eastcoaster

Elliemay, have you ever done IFS? If so and you found this, that's certainly valid, but if not, then perhaps you might want to try it and see if your hypothesis is indeed valid.

However, I do not agree with the statement that my opinion is not valid having never tried IFS. Opinions, per se are opinions. Neither valid, nor invalid, but open to all to accept or not. Again, though that's just my opinion .

[elliemay]

Originally Posted by lucydog

Elliemay- I hear you! I really struggled with this. I really felt uncomfortable with different "parts". I am me- I want to take full adult responsibiilty for my actions and learn how to be a good, wise person.

But, back to our CEO, he also notices that he is a **** to the supermarket checkout girl; and yet he has infinite patience when he volunteers at the local boys and girls club. Intersting, no? When he sits in t, he and his t may find it convenient to label those different aspects of himself in order for a conversation and deeper understanding to take place.

oh I agree. It may be a great place to start a very interesting probative conversation, but if I were a therapist, I would be very hesitant to extend it beyond a start.

Just me though!

[SoupDragon]

Originally Posted by elliemay

Oh lord, I have absolutely no idea why I am so vocal about this on this Sunday morning. Perhaps I'm feeling "part-ish" myself, and it's just an exaggerated defense, don't know. BUT

This gym thing, I think, kind of illustrates what I'm essentially talking about. Let's say I need to go to the gym. I know that, but don't go.

Who is responsible for me not going? *I* can either take responsbility for not going OR I can shift that to a *part* of me that doesn't want to go.

I mean after all, it won't be a part of me on that treadmill, but all of me sweating and really hating it.

Firstly I am so glad that you are contributing here, it is all helping me enormously.

The gym thing is interesting - for me it would be part of me wanting to go, but part of me not wanting to - I would be in the middle not knowing which part to listen to or which part was "me".

The same when I get there - part of me would be enjoying the buzz, but the other part wanting me to stop and sit down - like 2 different voices in my head "Keep going" "No stop".

What I know from psychology is that the frontal lobes do act as a "CEO" and ensure our behaviour is appropriate to the situation. For example those with damaged frontal lobes can act in disinhibited ways, there was a man who had damaged frontal lobe through an accident,.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage - is an interesting article but maybe just muddies the water even more.

[granite1]

my T used colors to name differnt parts of me.my personality and emotions and all.she didn't use names like the child parts and all that.it was more like the part of me that i see as red feels,does,knows,acts like,allows doesnt allow etc...

[skysblue]

I'm just wondering if the word 'parts' could be interchanged with 'mood'. Sometimes I'm in the mood to dance wildly. Is that a 'part' that is wild? Other times my mood drives me to curl up in a blanket and watch a mushy movie. Is that a 'part' that needs nurturing? Other times I'm vocal in my displeasure at an injustice - my mood is indignant. Is that a 'part' of me?

I can easily recognize my moods - outgoing, introverted, fearful, angry, etc. Some of those moods we call the 'child' in us. Do we call it childlike because it's vulnerable and more emotional?

And do we call the adult 'moods', adult because they're left brain analytical?

Do we dismiss and demean those so called 'child parts' when maybe we could accept them and help them in their ability to manage the emotions?

I'm guessing I'm not making any sense here. Sorry

[SoupDragon]

Originally Posted by skysblue

I'm just wondering if the word 'parts' could be interchanged with 'mood'. Sometimes I'm in the mood to dance wildly. Is that a 'part' that is wild? Other times my mood drives me to curl up in a blanket and watch a mushy movie. Is that a 'part' that needs nurturing? Other times I'm vocal in my displeasure at an injustice - my mood is indignant. Is that a 'part' of me?

I can easily recognize my moods - outgoing, introverted, fearful, angry, etc. Some of those moods we call the 'child' in us. Do we call it childlike because it's vulnerable and more emotional?

And do we call the adult 'moods', adult because they're left brain analytical?

Do we dismiss and demean those so called 'child parts' when maybe we could accept them and help them in their ability to manage the emotions?

I'm guessing I'm not making any sense here. Sorry

Thanks skysblue - that is an interesting thing about replacing parts with mood - it fits doesn't it?

My brain is all of a mush about this, just when I think I have grasped the concept I discover something else and have to re-evaluate.

But I have just remembered a really clear image I had when I was with T last year of a young girl sitting outside of his room and it was a younger me. T and I use a lot of fantasy in our work and maybe fantasies make these parts of moods into more solid 3D concepts that are easier to work with / manipulate?