Decline and Fall of the Good Group

I guess my point, CE, is that although you stopped the hate mail campaign, you still do not seem to see it's importance and have no acceptance of responsibility for the repercussions of it. I'm not saying you should beat yourself up for it, but OWN it. You did what you did, your T reacted the way she did. It happened. You may not have foreseen the repercussions at the time, but you can sure look at what happened and learn from it so you could foresee it in future interactions.

And I'm sure that you must have learned healthier ways of dealing with anger in the last two years. Maybe I should not have said anything, but I tend to get triggered when people are dismissive of their own part in conflicts and think even though they have behaved badly, all of the responsibility is on the other person. [I'm not passing judgment on your behavior; it was you who said it was a hate mail campaign and a pretty constant barrage against your therapist. I was just taking you at your word.] It was really none of my business and I shouldn't have jumped in. Sorry.

It is possible to feel anger, express it, and it not be destructive at all. Anger mobilizes action, but it doesn't have to. We get to be angry at stuff, and it not be destructive.

Anger doesn't have to hurt anything at all. In fact, it can be wildly motivating and helpful. We get to choose which path anger takes.

So, no, don't hold in that anger, but how could you express it in ways that are beneficial to you and your situation?

I think that whether or not CE needs to accept responsibility for his role in the group's demise depends on the therapist's stated expectations for his behavior at the time, not two years later. If he was led to believe that she could handle his anger and that it was important for him to have the opportunity to express it verbally no matter how hateful it was at that point in time, then he should bear no responsibility for playing a part in her decision to end the group.
If I do something that my therapist cannot tolerate and it is affecting his decisions, he does not wait two years to tell me, "Hey, by the way, remember when I made "X" decision? Well, that was partly because your behavior contributed to it." My therapist would find it grossly unfair to hold me partially responsible for a decision he made without making it clear to me at the time that my behavior was having a negative effect on him. I am in therapy to learn about myself and my destructive patterns of behavior, and it would serve no purpose for my T to act like my behavior was tolerable to him when it wasn't. So he is very clear about what is acceptable and what isn't.
If CE's therapist had said at that point in time that his behavior was contributing to her possible decision to end the group, he would have had the opportunity to change his behavior before she made her decision to end the group. If she did not make that clear to him at the time, and she led him to believe that all his anger was tolerable and it was important to work it through, then it's patently unfair of her to blame him at all for her decision.

would he be able to handle it back then?

That's something he would have needed to work through with his therapist. It's not at all helpful to "save us" from having to face the consequences our own behavior because we might not be able to handle it at a particular point in time. How fair or helpful is it to think everything is ok and then be told, years later, that it wasn't? A good therapist does not handle things that way.
Consistent messages are extremely important in therapy. What's most important to consider is, what was CE told about his therapist's expectations of his behavior at the time? If a therapist says one thing but does another, we might as well not be in therapy at all because we can't trust someone whose expectations are unclear and inconsistent. If we're in therapy to understand ourselves and change problematic behaviors, how can we do that if a therapist tells us our behavior is acceptable but then some years later she decides to tell us it wasn't acceptable? What good is that information now?

It is possible, if you think you can express it (talk about it) and not get killed as a result.

I thought, and I know I don't actually KNOW anything, that although CE's T accepted CE's anger, his behavior was draining to her to the point where she lacked the emotional energy to find new group members and keep the good group going. So, the take away message is NOT, Hey CE, it's all your fault that the group ended. It's more of a, Hey CE, although your T will not terminate you based on your behavior, your destructive behaviors do affect people.

From what CE posted, it seemed to me that CE's therapist has said that it was her responsibility that the group ended, but one of her reasons for her decision to end it was CE's behavior. I got my panties in a bunch with the total oh, totally not me at all, hand washing thing.

Actually I would imagine they hoped the person being given a hard time would speak up and enforce their own boundaries (and everyone chime in in their support). You can't be bullied if you can't be bullied. It's like de-triggering one's triggers so others can't pull them.

I understand what you're saying, MKAC, but I still think it was her responsibility to address it with CE at the time if his behavior was draining her to the point where she lacked emotional energy to recruit suitable members and to keep the group going. And at that point she also should have gotten consultation to help her handle the situation she created by experimenting with a group format when she apparently did not have the experience to deal with some of the issues common to group dynamics.
Yes, therapists are human beings, but they should know themselves well enough to anticipate what they can and cannot handle, and if a therapist cannot handle intense negative emotions without it affecting her work, then she should limit her practice to people who are not likely to experience the extreme emotions common to trauma survivors. If I go to a surgeon I expect him or her to be equipped both physically and emotionally with the skills and endurance necessary to successfully complete the surgery; I don't expect him to suddenly decide halfway through the procedure that he can't handle the sight of heavy bleeding, and then later on tell me it was partly my fault that he had to walk away because I was bleeding so heavily. The same holds true for a therapist. I expect my therapist to know himself well enough to be able to handle what he says he can handle because he should have had the training and stamina to do what our friends and family can't do, and if he tells me he can handle intense anger then I need to be able to depend on his actions to match his words.
I could be wrong but I didn't think CE was trying to evade responsibility for his behavior. I saw him as questioning the usefulness of telling him when it was too late for him to do anything about it. The best time to learn from a behavior is while it's happening, by exploring it in therapy, being given an opportunity to change it, and being taught the skills that are necessary to change it. Otherwise you just end up with useless guilt over something you can no longer correct.

but in individual T we either lash out, which isn't ideal, or we lay down, also not the best, until we have confidence and security that T will be able to listen to and accept and survive our objections.

The rules in psychotherapy are rather different from those of human society.

Thanks for this. That is a good exposition of my position.

I asked my T, why did you tell me I was a contributing factor to ending the group?
She said she wanted to be honest with me.
But I still have to ask her, why did you tell me now?

OK. I was a contributing factor. But others contributed a great deal more.

No one can predict all the consequences their actions might have.

I thought I was playing within the rules. T either clarified the rules or changed the rules: I'll give her the benefit of the doubt on this one. I complied grudgingly and with some backsliding, but I did stop sending hate mail.

She did not at that point tell me that I was imperilling the group, so there was nothing I could have done about it.

I did my best. She did her best. Sometimes bad things happen that no one intends.

Finis.

She did start to speak up for herself and we did offer her our support. I think we did some valuable work.

But she lost something irreplaceable, and when she left, we lost something irreplaceable too.

IMho, it should rather work as training ground than as a fake reality.

Taking out anger on people, even therapists (they are not boxing bags), long term, without looking for other solution, is not a good thing.