[rainbow8]

I came up with an idea. Unless my T reads One Child on her vacation, which I doubt, maybe she would let me read it aloud, a little bit each week. I have 90 minute sessions so I could take 10 minutes to read. Then we could discuss it afterwards. I haven't been obsessing about her reading it but I mentioned that she could take the book, which I lent her, with on her vacation. She said it was in her office. I don't want it back, I told her.

So, I'm wondering if anyone ever read to their T? It's something for me to think about instead of worrying about her coming back, and crying all of the time.

[CantExplain]

I would never give my T a book. It would be like stealing from her leisure time.
Reading to her is much better.

[granite1]

if she is into it i would say go for it .but please remember you are there to work on your issues and as long as reading to her isn't a way of avoiding that.

[ListenMoreTalkLess]

I don't mean to assume this, but it would seem to me that there are certain ideas, or certain experiences written about in the book, that are what you want to talk to her about. Why not go through the book and highlight those, and either read her the passages or summarize the things you want to talk further about?

Reading 10 minutes of a book may not be enough of a "chunk" to have what's written there make much sense. I don't know the book, I am just assuming again based on my experience of reading books to and with my older children (e.g. those who read). When we read The Hunger Games, for example, we read for 45minutes at a time. But that was fiction and you are talking about a nonfiction book (I think).

Plus, given the way you set this up, it seems a bit like perhaps you are trying to force her into reading the book when she doesn't really want to. I suppose there is nothing wrong with you asking and nothing wrong with her doing it if you do, but I wonder if it will really serve your needs. If what you want is for her to know what parts of the book you resonate with, it makes more sense (to me, I realize this may not be what you want or need) to read or summarize those passages and ask her to engage in those further with you.

[Perna]

My T would not let me read to her (and would not read to me); I had to put in words what I wanted her to know, what I was thinking/feeling.

[rainbow8]

Can'tExplain: I never thought of it that way, but you're right. I know my T reads other books about therapy and I thought she'd like the book. I know now that she skims books mostly.

granite: I know what you mean but the book seems to be the essence of my issues so I wanted to share it with my T.

ListenMoreTalkLess: Yes, One Child is nonfiction but reads like fiction. I did read one part to my T several months ago when I asked her if she ever read the book. It's hard to find passages because it's the whole relationship of the author to the child that I relate to. It could be that I'm just looking for another way to prove that my T cares about me when I don't need that proof because I know she does.

I'm an avid reader and I always want to share books. That too. I gave my former T another Torey Hayden book to read, which she did, but she didn't like it at all. She said Torey gave too much of herself to the children she treated. My T is more like Torey so I wanted to know what she thought. We're reading One Child in the book discussion group (social group) started by skysblue, if anyone is interested.

Perna: My T doesn't like when I read from my emails or journals very much though she was interested in my childhood diary from when I was 8 years old! I'm sure she would just want me to select certain passages as ListenMore suggested. It's hard, though, when I want to discuss the entire book with her.

Oh I love that book!! It has been one of my favorites ever since I was 12 years old. I love Torey Hayden.

I think you should go for it. At least try it and see how it goes. We read books to our T quite often (although with the younger inside kids, they read things like "Colors" and "Puppies") I've also given our T things we've written (short stories) and I've given her books to read too.

My T is like Torey too.

[ECHOES]

Yeah, but not an entire book. I've read parts of books to T, when I wanted to share those parts. She welcomes it any time. Recently I had another but had to return it to the library before I could remember to take it to therapy with me.

I also have shown my T tons of videos and pictures. Do you have things like that you can share with your T too? Maybe while she is gone, you can find other stuff too (in addition to a book) to show your T.

I can't find the link to the book group...can you give a link?

Rainbow, your desire to have your T read this book was a big issue to you a few months back. You were very hurt that she didn't at the time, and it seemed like you felt if she read it she would be showing how much she loves you and you believed it would give her great insight into you. Why are you coming back to this again? Your T clearly cares about you and seems very insightful about your needs. I don't think this really has anything to do with the book. What is this need really all about?

[rainbow8]

SarahMichelle: I remember you saying you liked Torey Hayden before. Can you send a message to skysblue, since she's in charge of the book group? That would probably be the best way; I don't know how to do links. Yes, I've emailed her photos and other stuff, and brought in my artwork and photos for her to see.

farmergirl: You'd make an excellent T. It's probably related to her being away and thinking about how she reminds me of Torey, the author. How much I like my T and don't want to lose her. How much she cares about me but still keeps her boundaries. How important she is to me as a real person. Maybe it's just too much for me to grasp and reading the book would put up a barrier between us? It would be about Torey and Sheila, not about my T and me holding hands and talking. I don't know if I trust this relationship because it was always transference and my pattern before, because I couldn't get what I wanted. It was out of reach with my other Ts. It's there with my T now. I don't have to fantasize. It's hard to feel this close to someone and to be touching them, physical and emotionally, and for her to touch me. It's the blanket of love I always wanted. When she goes away to foreign countries, I can't keep her safe. I want to know where she is.

[unaluna]

r8 - sounds like "object constancy" issues. I just googled it, and a bunch of articles, books, etc came up. you might want to spend some time doing that, I found it comforting myself! even though I feel I can keep T in mind at this point (and vice versa). there are a lot of different aspects to it I learned from just one article, that I wasn't really aware of.

I totally understand... I want to keep my T safe too when she is out of town. I worry about her all day long.

[cmac13]

I think that is a GREAT idea reading a bit to your therapist even if it is for only 10 minutes. I know mine would allow it without hesitation. I do know how difficult it is when my therapist is away. Boy do I struggle, but she has allowed me to photograph her, she has taped stories she has read from books I had requested and she even will write me a short letter to have with me to deal with those issues I have with her being away. her and I share a love of books and it seems this past year we have been reading alot of the same books. I ususally have a book with me when I come to my session to read in the waiting room. She always takes a look at what I am reading. Ofton she says she has read the book. About a month ago she made a comment on the book I was reading and asked me if it was any good. I had told her I thought it was. I was pleasantly suprised last week she made a reference to that that particular book and I asked her "Did you read it?" and she said that she did and she enjoyed it. I just had to smile because usually it is the other way around :0)
Anyways sometimes it is through books that I can't connect with her about some of the struggles I have. She always tells me there is no one way to do therapy. She is very open minded. Good luck

[sunrise]

Rainbow, I'm not sure reading 10 minutes to your T each week would be good. This idea has elements of coercion in it, as you have already told your T several times you would like her to read this book, you have given her the book, told her she can keep it, etc. You have tried to get her to read this book and she has chosen not to, for whatever reasons. It seems your reading to her every week might be a way to insist she does what you want, or it might come off that way.

If I'm understanding correctly, you want your T to understand the relationship between Torey and the child in the book. This is important to you because you think it will help give your T insight into some of your own struggles. Is that right? I think you can achieve that without your T having to read (or have read to her by you) the entire book. I have almost completed reading One Child, and I think there are some great passages in it that could illustrate what you want to communicate to your T. This will require you to do some work and read through the book again and choose the best passages. But this is something you really want, so I think you would be willing to do that work, wouldn't you? You wrote that it is more than just certain passages but the entire relationship between Torey and the child that you want to communicate so your T needs to read the whole book. I'm not sure I agree. I think there are some great passages that illustrate the relationship. Plus, you could preface your reading of the passage with an explanation of how the relationship was so special, how it is relevant to your own situation, etc. I think you can make this work without requiring your T to sit through your reading each week.

Speaking for myself, it would be very hard for me to follow the train of thought or feeling in a book if I just heard 10 minutes of it each week. I just don't think that would be that effective. Maybe I'm just too forgetful. I think you can make finding an illustrative passage or two, combined with your own explanation, work for you and your T. And then your T won't feel this is coercion or manipulation on your part to get her to read this book come hell or high water. You have great communication skills, Rainbow. I believe you can communicate what is important about this book to your T without her having to read the entire book.

Rainbow, as an attorney, I've had a client who really wanted me to read a certain book because he was certain it would help me to understand his case and more effectively defend him. The book may have been tangentially relevant to the case, but the client had already explained the case to me, and I already knew the law. Also, I knew there was no way that the client was okay with me charging him for my time in reading the book. He kept telling me I should WANT to read the book because it was so good and would be helpful to me in my future career, blah, blah.

So, my client wanted me to waste my free time reading this book because HE found it really helpful, when it would do nothing to help me or further the case. When I said (nicely) I knew what I was doing, the guy wanted to read me passages from the book. Frankly, I found it hugely irritating and thought the client was controlling and lacked trust in me. I thought about firing him as a client, and as things turned out, should have. Although I am not a therapist, obviously, no professional will appreciate the attitude that she has to read a book you want her to in order to do her job. Just my two cents.

[scorpiosis37]

Originally Posted by sunrise

Rainbow, I'm not sure reading 10 minutes to your T each week would be good. This idea has elements of coercion in it, as you have already told your T several times you would like her to read this book, you have given her the book, told her she can keep it, etc. You have tried to get her to read this book and she has chosen not to, for whatever reasons. It seems your reading to her every week might be a way to insist she does what you want, or it might come off that way.

I think you can make finding an illustrative passage or two, combined with your own explanation, work for you and your T. And then your T won't feel this is coercion or manipulation on your part to get her to read this book come hell or high water.

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

Rainbow, as an attorney, I've had a client who really wanted me to read a certain book because he was certain it would help me to understand his case and more effectively defend him. The book may have been tangentially relevant to the case, but the client had already explained the case to me, and I already knew the law. He kept telling me I should WANT to read the book because it was so good and would be helpful to me in my future career, blah, blah.

So, my client wanted me to waste my free time reading this book because HE found it really helpful, when it would do nothing to help me or further the case. When I said (nicely) I knew what I was doing, the guy wanted to read me passages from the book. Frankly, I found it hugely irritating and thought the client was controlling and lacked trust in me. Although I am not a therapist, obviously, no professional will appreciate the attitude that she has to read a book you want her to in order to do her job.

I think sunrise and my kids are cool have given you some great advice. You have made it abundantly clear to your T that you want her to read this book, and she has made it equally clear to you (via her actions) that she does not want to. She's said "no" in about every polite way that there is. Clearly, she does not think reading the book would be helpful to HER. And, from what you wrote previously, this seems to be an educated decision on her part. It's not simply a lack of time or something she just brushed off; she knows what the book is about, who the author is, etc and she has made the informed decision not to read it.

She does, however, seems to appreciate the fact that the book has been helpful for YOU and she seems interested in continuing to hear about how YOU relate to the book. Furthermore, hearing you read the book aloud will tell her nothing about how/why YOU find the book useful. Hearing someone read aloud is a passive exercise; it's difficult to follow along, it's "choppy," and if you're not interested in the book in the first place, it can be quite boring and tedious. It gets you away from doing the real "work" of therapy (and even from connecting with one another).

Moreover, proposing that you read the book aloud for 10 minutes each session IS coercive (even if it's unintentional). It's trying to "force" her to read the book and it's trying to usurp her power to say "no." I know you probably don't mean it this way, but it comes across as a hostile and offensive gesture. It says that you don't respect her right to say "no" and it suggests you think she NEEDS to read the book in order to do her job. It almost always comes across as offensive when someone outside of your profession suggests you'll understand your job better if you read something THEY have discovered. Speaking from personal experience, I HATE IT when people outside of my profession suggest I read something they think will be helpful to me professionally (and it happens frequently). I find it to be rude, intrusive, and awkward (because I have to find a way to say "no" without being impolite and, often, people ask more than once, which means they are not respecting my right to say "no").

But, more importantly, your T has already proven she's a good T and does not need to read the book in order to treat you. She's a professional and she already know how SHE handles the client/therapist relationship (with you and with others). She doesn't need to learn from Tori's model. She's not Tori and she doesn't want to be; she's herself! And that's why you benefit from working with her, right? Because you find her method to be useful? And if it's the similarities between her and Tori that you find interesting, what do you hope to gain by pointing them out? There isn't much for her to "do" with those similarities other than acknowledge them. It seems that the only interesting part about the book is YOUR reaction to it and WHY you have this strong desire to share it with your T. Is it really about the content of the book? Or is it about the dynamics between you and your T with respect to her reading/not reading the book? Maybe it's a combination of both? In reading your posts, that seems to be where the "fruit for thought" lies.

Good luck!

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by hankster

r8 - sounds like "object constancy" issues. I just googled it, and a bunch of articles, books, etc came up. you might want to spend some time doing that, I found it comforting myself! even though I feel I can keep T in mind at this point (and vice versa). there are a lot of different aspects to it I learned from just one article, that I wasn't really aware of.

Thanks, hankster. I CAN picture my T in front of me right this minute, holding my hand, so maybe I finally have object constancy. I'll google it though, to see what they say.

Originally Posted by cmac13

I think that is a GREAT idea reading a bit to your therapist even if it is for only 10 minutes. I know mine would allow it without hesitation. I do know how difficult it is when my therapist is away. Boy do I struggle, but she has allowed me to photograph her, she has taped stories she has read from books I had requested and she even will write me a short letter to have with me to deal with those issues I have with her being away. her and I share a love of books and it seems this past year we have been reading alot of the same books. I ususally have a book with me when I come to my session to read in the waiting room. She always takes a look at what I am reading. Ofton she says she has read the book. About a month ago she made a comment on the book I was reading and asked me if it was any good. I had told her I thought it was. I was pleasantly suprised last week she made a reference to that that particular book and I asked her "Did you read it?" and she said that she did and she enjoyed it. I just had to smile because usually it is the other way around :0)
Anyways sometimes it is through books that I can't connect with her about some of the struggles I have. She always tells me there is no one way to do therapy. She is very open minded. Good luck

I'm glad this works for you. My T has a lot of books, and she seemed to want to read a couple I've recommended in the past, but she doesn't have time, I've discovered. She skims most of the books or doesn't finish them.

Originally Posted by sunrise

Rainbow, I'm not sure reading 10 minutes to your T each week would be good. This idea has elements of coercion in it, as you have already told your T several times you would like her to read this book, you have given her the book, told her she can keep it, etc. You have tried to get her to read this book and she has chosen not to, for whatever reasons. It seems your reading to her every week might be a way to insist she does what you want, or it might come off that way.

If I'm understanding correctly, you want your T to understand the relationship between Torey and the child in the book. This is important to you because you think it will help give your T insight into some of your own struggles. Is that right? I think you can achieve that without your T having to read (or have read to her by you) the entire book. I have almost completed reading One Child, and I think there are some great passages in it that could illustrate what you want to communicate to your T. This will require you to do some work and read through the book again and choose the best passages. But this is something you really want, so I think you would be willing to do that work, wouldn't you? You wrote that it is more than just certain passages but the entire relationship between Torey and the child that you want to communicate so your T needs to read the whole book. I'm not sure I agree. I think there are some great passages that illustrate the relationship. Plus, you could preface your reading of the passage with an explanation of how the relationship was so special, how it is relevant to your own situation, etc. I think you can make this work without requiring your T to sit through your reading each week.

Speaking for myself, it would be very hard for me to follow the train of thought or feeling in a book if I just heard 10 minutes of it each week. I just don't think that would be that effective. Maybe I'm just too forgetful. I think you can make finding an illustrative passage or two, combined with your own explanation, work for you and your T. And then your T won't feel this is coercion or manipulation on your part to get her to read this book come hell or high water. You have great communication skills, Rainbow. I believe you can communicate what is important about this book to your T without her having to read the entire book.

sunrise, I think you're right. It was just a thought I had when she went away, but now it seems stupid and pointless. She doesn't want to read it and that's that. I won't read it to her. I'm already triggered by T's not wanting to read what I ask them to. I'm sure it's based on something from my past, probably about not being powerful or something. "I don't count", maybe. It makes me feel she doesn't care enough. If she REALLY cared, she would read it.

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

Rainbow, as an attorney, I've had a client who really wanted me to read a certain book because he was certain it would help me to understand his case and more effectively defend him. The book may have been tangentially relevant to the case, but the client had already explained the case to me, and I already knew the law. Also, I knew there was no way that the client was okay with me charging him for my time in reading the book. He kept telling me I should WANT to read the book because it was so good and would be helpful to me in my future career, blah, blah.

So, my client wanted me to waste my free time reading this book because HE found it really helpful, when it would do nothing to help me or further the case. When I said (nicely) I knew what I was doing, the guy wanted to read me passages from the book. Frankly, I found it hugely irritating and thought the client was controlling and lacked trust in me. I thought about firing him as a client, and as things turned out, should have. Although I am not a therapist, obviously, no professional will appreciate the attitude that she has to read a book you want her to in order to do her job. Just my two cents.

I wanted my T to see what I liked about the relationship between the author and the child she was helping but that's stupid. I did read her one passage when I first brought her the book. I could talk more about it but that's stupid too, I realize.

Originally Posted by scorpiosis37

I think sunrise and my kids are cool have given you some great advice. You have made it abundantly clear to your T that you want her to read this book, and she has made it equally clear to you (via her actions) that she does not want to. She's said "no" in about every polite way that there is. Clearly, she does not think reading the book would be helpful to HER. And, from what you wrote previously, this seems to be an educated decision on her part. It's not simply a lack of time or something she just brushed off; she knows what the book is about, who the author is, etc and she has made the informed decision not to read it.
She did tell me it's lack of time.
She does, however, seems to appreciate the fact that the book has been helpful for YOU and she seems interested in continuing to hear about how YOU relate to the book. Furthermore, hearing you read the book aloud will tell her nothing about how/why YOU find the book useful. Hearing someone read aloud is a passive exercise; it's difficult to follow along, it's "choppy," and if you're not interested in the book in the first place, it can be quite boring and tedious. It gets you away from doing the real "work" of therapy (and even from connecting with one another).
I agree with that. I posted it in my response to farmergirl.

Moreover, proposing that you read the book aloud for 10 minutes each session IS coercive (even if it's unintentional). It's trying to "force" her to read the book and it's trying to usurp her power to say "no." I know you probably don't mean it this way, but it comes across as a hostile and offensive gesture. It says that you don't respect her right to say "no" and it suggests you think she NEEDS to read the book in order to do her job. It almost always comes across as offensive when someone outside of your profession suggests you'll understand your job better if you read something THEY have discovered. Speaking from personal experience, I HATE IT when people outside of my profession suggest I read something they think will be helpful to me professionally (and it happens frequently). I find it to be rude, intrusive, and awkward (because I have to find a way to say "no" without being impolite and, often, people ask more than once, which means they are not respecting my right to say "no").
You're right and I have trouble with that. It's triggering me and I have to figure out why.
But, more importantly, your T has already proven she's a good T and does not need to read the book in order to treat you. She's a professional and she already know how SHE handles the client/therapist relationship (with you and with others). She doesn't need to learn from Tori's model. She's not Tori and she doesn't want to be; she's herself! And that's why you benefit from working with her, right? Because you find her method to be useful? And if it's the similarities between her and Tori that you find interesting, what do you hope to gain by pointing them out? There isn't much for her to "do" with those similarities other than acknowledge them. It seems that the only interesting part about the book is YOUR reaction to it and WHY you have this strong desire to share it with your T. Is it really about the content of the book? Or is it about the dynamics between you and your T with respect to her reading/not reading the book? Maybe it's a combination of both? In reading your posts, that seems to be where the "fruit for thought" lies.
[B]Yes, it's both. You've clarified my issues very well. Thank you.[B]
Good luck!

Originally Posted by rainbow8

It makes me feel she doesn't care enough. If she REALLY cared, she would read it.

Rainbow8, this just isn't true or fair to your T. Please make a list of all the ways that you believe demonstrate that she cares about you. Then make a list of those which you believe demonstrate that she doesn't care. I've read many, many of your posts - I'd be willing to bet that the former list exponentially beats the latter! It's unhealthy for someone to do something for someone (even if it's someone he/she cares a lot about) that they feel uncomfortable with for whatever reason just because the other person wants them. Were your T force herself to read the book, she'd end up feeling resentful toward you perhaps, angry at herself for having agreed and this might come through in your interactions. I do think that this is "grist for the mill" and you should show your T much of what you've written here and are thinking. One of the only times that my current T has gotten visibly annoyed with me is when I questioned her love and caring because she wasn't doing something I wanted her to. She was insulted that I even suggested this and I learned a lot from this. Please let it go for your own sake (and if I could only take this advice myself on things in my own life!).

[stopdog]

I think if you want to spend your time and money reading to the therapist - it is your time and money to do so. I am not certain the result will be what you want - but it is your therapy and you do get to control it.

[rainbow8]

eastcoaster, thank you. I don't have to make that list. You know I don't. I am 100% sure that my T cares about me. I just miss her right now and it was about that, that I thought about reading One Child to her. I'm grasping at straws because of the intensity of my feelings about her. I'm in uncharted waters this time and trying to accept the way I feel, and not judge myself. It's hard.

Thanks, stopdog. I know the result wouldn't be what I want. It wasn't logical thinking on my part--about the book.

[stopdog]

I am sorry you are having such a hard time with it.

[unaluna]

I feel I am kind of going thru something similar with my T. I gave him a couple of monkeys a while ago, and I always hold as the "standard" of our r/s that he SAYS he doesn't want to marry me (pout!), but then he says or does other stuff, so this leaves me confused. This "marry me" is from my FOO - I am trying to figure out what it means to me IRL, or in therapy - what will it take to make me feel loved, known, secure - is secure even something I want? If finding love is going back to that infantile bliss, what if you only had infantile neglect? What do you look for then? I think wanting T to read the book is your trying to articulate those feelings you are looking for.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by hankster

If finding love is going back to that infantile bliss, what if you only had infantile neglect? What do you look for then? I think wanting T to read the book is your trying to articulate those feelings you are looking for.

Another good question. In the book Necessary Losses, Viorst talks about all of us wanting to get back to that infantile bliss. But if we weren't taken care of in the way a baby should have been, how do we know what "infantile bliss" is? I know that for me, it's "something" tangible I'm looking for, otherwise why would I have these powerful feelings for my Ts? I think you're right about the book. The love that the author gives the child is what I want. I wasn't abused like she was, but nevertheless, it's definitely what I want. My T knows that already. I don't know why I have to keep telling her, but I do. It's like I have to get it "out of my system". Not the need for the love, but the talking about it and how I feel to get it from my T or not get it from her.

[Chopin99]

I keep reading this thread and even though I haven't had anything to say, rainbow...you're doing some good work in this thread!