[lostmyway21]

So today T told me he is no longer responding to certain texts or emails. He will not respond to anything asking if he's abandoning me, if he's giving up on me, if everything is ok, if he's mad at me, if he's upset at me or anything along those lines.

He told me he's only reinforcing the behavior by answering them. Part of me understands, then part of me feels rejected. He took some responsibility saying he shouldn't have supported that behavior for so long.

Before I left our session I asked if everything was okay. (he never said I couldn't ask in person, but apparently I can't) He was like are you serious right now?

I feel like every time I mess up I need assurance that our relationship is going to be okay, or I fall apart and panic. I messed up with our boundaries a lot this week which is why I asked. I don't understand why he doesn't understand my need to ask. I was abandoned a lot in the past by people I trusted, so it's still a valid fear for me.

I know he believes I should feel safe and confident in our relationship because he has done nothing to show me otherwise in the last eight months. He just doesn't get the man I looked up to for four years was complelty supportive until the day he left too.

I don't know how to take this or where to go with this now. He's standing firm in his position, but I wish he would meet me halfway. How am I suppose to assure myself that things are okay if he won't let me ask any of those questions? This is so hard.

Advice, opinions?

[sunrise]

I can understand not allowing the in between session queries via email and text, but I think not even allowing you to talk about this topic in session is pretty harsh. I think we should be able to talk about whatever we want in session. In Yalom's books, he says he often asks the client at the end of each session, "well, how are we (meaning the relationship between the client and him) doing today?" and it gives the client a chance to briefly say how the relationship is going, and then Yalom also gets a chance to say how it is going for him. Maybe if you phrased your question more like Yalom does, it would be acceptable to your T. Instead of asking him, "are you mad at me?" or "have you given up on me?" ask him "well, how are we doing today?" Then he has a chance to tell you if he is upset at you for some reason, and if he doesn't say that, you can be reassured he is not, if you trust him to tell the truth. Just an idea, from a well-respected psychotherapist--I think many Ts study Yalom while in school. Good luck.

[Perna]

Originally Posted by lostmyway21

He told me he's only reinforcing the behavior by answering them.

You can ask, he just will not answer is all. If things are not "okay" with him he will tell you right then and there, there is no galactic "okay" that stays constant.

You cannot control someone else, make them reassure you; you can ask for whatever you want but cannot make someone supply whatever it is; in fact, reassurance is impossible for someone else to give you because they are not the ones without the assurance, you are so only you can supply it. How you feel does not come from outside of you so outside sources cannot "fix" whatever feels bad.

To start, I would try to take reassurance from his not saying anything is wrong! Ask yourself, "is everything okay?" and then answer, "Well, T hasn't said anything was wrong so. . ."

Lost,

From someone who has been there, I completely understand your feelings AND I think that T made a wise decision for you by not responding to queries such as "Are you mad?" and "Will you give up on me?" His being there every session for you and continuing to allow you to email/text him frequently answer these questions much louder than "No" in response to your questions. I know it's hard, but you have to trust him. Would you want someone to whom you've given so much of yourself to ask you repeatedly the same questions? My T got to this point with me and it's one of the only times that I've seen her frustrated. Though she understood from previous relationships that I've had where I've been abandoned, she found it bothersome that I would ask such questions over and over because she was giving so much of herself and each day silently answering these questions (it sounds like our Ts are really similar with allowing us to email a lot and simply being there). I guess it's learning that actions speak louder than words.

We've had threads about Ts saying "I love you." Some Ts never say this (others, such as mine, very occasionally) and instead their actions say this. I much prefer "hearing" this through my Ts actions vs. having someone say repeatedly to me "I love you," but then act in non-loving ways. I know that this is so hard, I've been there, but please focus on what your T does give you. Make a list if you need to and read and reread it when you get frustrated over the things that you want him to give that he will not (such as answering aloud or via email/text your questions about abandonment. It will get better, I promise.

p.s. Just this Tuesday we got into a disagreement during our session about session times--we'd discussed this a few weeks ago and there were some lingering things neither of us had expressed. She did get frustrated with me (one of the only other times) and I asked just once "Are you angry?" and she said no. By the end of the session, and more important ever since I left her office 2 days ago, I've neither worried about her being angry at me or that she would abandon me. This is HUGE progress for me, coming 6 or so months after she said that she wouldn't answer these questions. She does sometimes remind me that she's still here and that she's not going anywhere, but she offers this on her own when she sees that I'm struggling instead of in response to such questions.

[minneymouse]

lost, I understand how hard it is when Ts stop doing something they've been doing, and for a while after they draw the line it can feel like such a TOUGH stance to take, and so unloving, and so hard to tolerate.

But reading your message, I'm thinking, how amazing it will be once you are able to answer these questions for yourself and give yourself the reassurance that you need. T sometimes goes away, sometimes is too busy to check his email, occasionaly is frustrated or wobbles in confidence himself. But once you have *you*, that matters less. Wherever you go, there you are. But in a good way I'm wondering how can you start to care for yourself and develop a strong adult voice which is reassuring to you? What can you do to soothe yourself? I have always talked aloud to myself (hmm, I'm outing myself as crazy here!) and I've noticed over time how much that voice has changed. I used to hear myself say things like 'Pull yourself together! She won't love you if you are this bad'. Then for a long while it was neutral things like 'Keep going. You're doing well, just keep going'. And now, I feel so surprised when I hear myself saying 'Well done lovely girl, that's right, you're ok, it'll be ok'. I'm like wow, do I really think she's lovely? Apparently so. But that has come about through lots and lots of practice, and a firm commitment on my part to soothe and parent myself as much as I possibly can. You can do it, I know you can

[stopdog]

Actually, I would not continue to see someone who refuses to answer questions about how therapy is going. That is me.

[lostmyway21]

So I thought about it and sent him an email. Hopefully he understands what's going on..

"I was thinking about our relationship a lot when I got home and I noticed one thing. I know for sure I have strong parental transference going on with you, BUT what I didn't notice is to who it was with. My transference is most definitely coming from the cop that took me in when I was 15 and raised me until I was 19. He was the only strong parental figure I had. Our relationship is pretty much a complete reflection of the relationship I had with him. John was the first person to ever show me that they cared about me and that they supported me and wanted me to succeed. Much like us, we used to email daily. In fact I still have access to the account, it probably would be really similar to our emails. I would look for assurance and support and he would always give it to me. Day after day he kept me from giving up. I looked to him for safety and protection, much like I do to you. I thought he would never give up on me because he promised he wouldn't, and he would be there for me forever. Then the emails became less frequent and finally he stopped seeing me altogether. To say I was devastated would be putting it mildly. I thought about giving up for weeks after that, because the only person who had been there the majority of my life had broke his promise and had gave up on me. That was probably the worst time of my life. I think I see a lot of the similarities between the relationship I had with him and the relationship I have with you and that is what scares me. I specifically didn't want a male therapist in the beginning because I knew this would eventually become a problem that I needed to work through. I knew inside that if I ever had developed a connection with the therapist that I would be reliving my relationship with John. I still till his day miss him more than anything. He saved me from myself when I was just a kid, but he broke me in the end. He made it impossible to fully trust another. I know it upsets you when I ask you all those questions, but this is where they are coming from. You have through your actions showed me the last 9 months that I should trust you. BUT he did that very same thing for 4 years, before he threw me to the side and forgot about me. I know our relationship is different, but it feels like my relationship with John did a lot. I know I need to remind my self that your not him and your not going to do that but there's a lot of fear involved there. Please be patient with me."

I think that you're right to say that "our relationship is different." And I think that you could also add "_I_ am in a different place" to remind yourself about *your* growth and not just that T and you have a different dynamic. You learned from the painful relationship in the past and have grown from this. Please remember to give yourself credit!

Originally Posted by stopdog

Actually, I would not continue to see someone who refuses to answer questions about how therapy is going. That is me.

But that is not what she is asking. She is asking for constant reassurances that her T cares, etc. when the evidence is actually right in front of her. Her T completely realizes that no matter how many times and in no matter how many ways he "says" he's still there and will continue to be there, Lost will continue to ask this question because of her insecurities, attachment problems, etc. Lost actually know this too. If her questions were specific to goals or skills or something along that line about therapy, I am quite certain he would have no problem answering the question, but he knows his client well enough to know that what he can do best for her right now is ask her to look at the evidence in front of her and answer that question for herself. The proof is right there in front of her nose and learning to see it and find the reassurance within herself is a hugely important skill for her.

I'm going to switch to talking to Lost now because I find it very uncomfortable to talk about people rather than to them. (Too much of that going on around here lately.)

Lost, somehow you have to reach that place where you can reassure yourself. Your T is not your old friend. This is a different person and a different kind of relationship and interaction.

My husband at times does to me what you do to your T. He constantly asks for reassurances that I love him, that I won't leave him, etc. No one he has ever loved before in his life ever followed through. The constant, repeated requests for reassurance are very wearing on a relationship and they don't do anything at all to ensure the safety of the relationship at all. I used to always answer him thinking that was helping him, but the questions never stopped. In fact, they just increased. Our T has been working with him on this because, like you, the evidence is right in front of his eyes but he refuses to trust it. Constantly asking for reassurances gives the message to the receiver that he/she is not trusted, that no matter what a person does it will never be enough, that the person is perceived to be the potential bad guy just like those other bad guys before. That is not the intent of the questions, but that IS the message that comes across. It is draining, exasperrating, and builds a real resentment over time for their loyalty and trustworthiness constantly being called into question.

I don't play the please reassure me game with my husband anymore. It just feeds into his insecurities rather than helping him. Instead, I remind him to look to the evidence. That doesn't mean I never say I love him or that I care for him, etc. On the contrary, I've always said those things and always will, but clearly the words have never been enough. But I now ask him to remember that the words don't begin to express what I actually feel or what I have shown through my consistent support and affection and patience and honesty, etc. He's doing better about being able to slow down and remember and acknowledge what is truly there rather than panicking in his fears about the past (because it has never really been about me and he knows that.)

Lost, your T is saying you need to slow down and look to the evidence. Remember he is not a figure from your past; he is here and now. Remember what he has and is doing to try to help you and your anxiety about this will eventually get better. But you have to learn to do this for yourself. He cannot possiby give you enough assurances verbally to satisfy you if you won't look to the evidence and take the risk to trust that he is being honest with you.

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by farmergirl

But that is not what she is asking. She is asking for constant reassurances that her T cares, etc. when the evidence is actually right in front of her. Her T completely realizes that no matter how many times and in no matter how many ways he "says" he's still there and will continue to be there, Lost will continue to ask this question because of her insecurities, attachment problems, etc. Lost actually know this too. If her questions were specific to goals or skills or something along that line about therapy, I am quite certain he would have no problem answering the question, but he knows his client well enough to know that what he can do best for her right now is ask her to look at the evidence in front of her and answer that question for herself. The proof is right there in front of her nose and learning to see it and find the reassurance within herself is a hugely important skill for her.

I'm going to switch to talking to Lost now because I find it very uncomfortable to talk about people rather than to them. (Too much of that going on around here lately.)

There was no expectation for others to talk about someone rather than to them when iI posted my response. I was only talking about how I would approach it. I am generally not comfortable telling others what they should do - but I am comfortable explaining how I would approach the situation if I was in it and sometimes I hope others find something useful in it.

Lost - you seem to like working with this guy. I hope it gets more stable feeling for you.

Originally Posted by stopdog

There was no expectation for others to talk about someone rather than to them when iI posted my response. I was only talking about how I would approach it. I am generally not comfortable telling others what they should do - but I am comfortable explaining how I would approach the situation if I was in it and sometimes I hope others find something useful in it.

Lost - you seem to like working with this guy. I hope it gets more stable feeling for you.

I realize that Stopdog. I wasn't scolding you if that is what you thought. I was really just very consciously refocusing my post to Lost since it is her thread, that's all.

[kiki86]

i know it hurts but i think your t is doing the right thing in the long run. you'll never learn to feel secure if you are being constantly reassured from external sources. but i do feel for you because i can imagine how difficult this is for you. especially in light of what you said about john. but i think it will be good for you, when you realise that your T is not going to abandon you just because he doesn't answer all your emails or texts anymore.