[missrachel33]

Hi all. If you have read my other posts, you know I’ve been seeing a female T for about a year now (I’m a gay female). We’ve certainly had our ups and downs. After some issues, I wrote her an email about the problems I had with her – and also let her know, in a round about way, that I was attracted to her. She never said anything – until this week.

I was talking about a former “infatuation” I had, and she said, “do you have those kinds of feelings in here?” I was blown away. I certainly didn’t expect it, and didn’t plan to answer. I’ve been attracted to her for quite some time. I’m not in love with her, but it’s a pretty strong physical attraction. Nothing more.

I couldn’t answer her at first, but eventually I mustered up the courage (stupidity?), and told her that yes, I was attracted to her.

Her response seemed fine at first. She didn’t bat an eye, and said that this happens often, and that it’s normal.

Then she said, “you know I’m not gay.”

What on earth made her think that I think she is gay? I can be attracted to a heterosexual and NOT think she is gay. Wasn’t expecting that one. And quite frankly, I didn’t ever want to know about her sexual preference!

She then said that “you know you can’t expect anything to happen, and because of my profession, it’s absolutely unethical.”

Well I knew that too, and I know she has to say that. But it seems as if I finally tell her I’m attracted to her – and she immediately assumes I think she’s gay, and that I think something would happen? I’d never think those things – ever. And I never once thought she was ever attracted to me. I’d never think that.

I know as a professional she has to be SURE I know nothing will happen. I think she handled it ok, but I’m still offended. I think it would have been enough to say “You know nothing can or will happen, and it’s totally unethical for that to happen in a therapeutic setting.” Seems like her response was overkill to me.

I don’t think she is, or ever was, gay. I never would act on my feelings, EVER, and I’d never ever think she would act unethically, in any way. And yet the moment I tell her I’m attracted to her, she assumes I think all of the above. How can I not be offended?

I do plan on talking to her about it all. She had also said to me, many times, “just because you have feelings, doesn’t mean you have to act on them. “ What on earth have I ever “acted on?” I’m a very moral, appropriate person, and have respected all boundaries in that office. I admit my attraction, and I end up feeling completely ashamed and totally humiliated - though I know that was NOT her intention. Maybe I am too sensitive? It was so hard to admit, but I just feel terrible about it. I think that has more to do with me than her. I do think she was appropriate, but it was …odd. Maybe it’s me.

So, just wanted some advice on what you guys and gals think. I think the most obvious offense was her immediate statement, “I’m not gay.” Maybe she was the one who was offended? I think this is strange, and just wanted some input before my next session.

Thank you!!

[CantExplain]

Did you say, "I know you're not gay. That makes no difference."?

I agree though, there was no need for her to say that.

[unaluna]

Well, I would just go read the newish links in Romantic Feelings, the blog esp is quite good (but only cos I had a hard time reading the other piece on my phone). My T made a LOT of wrong moves over this whole issue. He has said, at least a hundred times, "But I don't WANT to get married again!" Like that matters!!! I don't know what he's thinking! Probably something about himself! That is to say, they are trying to navigate this situation as honestly as possible, staying in touch with THEIR feelings, because staying in touch with our own feelings is how we get to what these feelings are actually about, in relation to our own personal histories AND relative to THIS particular T. This is an onion that keeps blooming.

[WikidPissah]

Sounds like she over estimated the attraction. I can understand why that would offend you. She tried to blow out a candle with a fire hose. I hope you will be able to tell her she over reacted.

[Dreamy01]

I can understand you feeling upset. I suspect I would have the same feelings in your situation.

That said, I don't think your T has said anything wrong as such, but definite overkill. It sounds like she reacted out of her own feelings/needs when she said 'I'm not gay'. Something in her needed to be sure you knew that. I can see why that has offended you. She didnt have to say that. And in doing so, she has hurt your sense of knowing you're a moral person who respects her boundaries and the need for her to be aware of it too. I like to think I'm a respectful person when it comes to boundaries in T's office and any sort of overreaction would hurt me too.

I'm glad you're planning to talk to T about it. I'm sure she will realise her mistake. She sounds a good, ethical T. She reacted out of her needs and it isn't any reflection on you.

[Sannah]

You got some good answers already and you are already approaching it well anyway, by wanting to continue to discuss this with her.

T's are human. Relationships are messy. I'm sure that you will work this out with her and this will strengthen your relationship.

Originally Posted by WikidPissah

Sounds like she over estimated the attraction. I can understand why that would offend you. She tried to blow out a candle with a fire hose. I hope you will be able to tell her she over reacted.

Can I steal that phrase, Wikid? Blowing out a candle with a fire hose! That's awesome. My husband does that ALL the time.

[mcl6136]

Originally Posted by missrachel33

Hi all. If you have read my other posts, you know I’ve been seeing a female T for about a year now (I’m a gay female). We’ve certainly had our ups and downs. After some issues, I wrote her an email about the problems I had with her – and also let her know, in a round about way, that I was attracted to her. She never said anything – until this week.

I was talking about a former “infatuation” I had, and she said, “do you have those kinds of feelings in here?” I was blown away. I certainly didn’t expect it, and didn’t plan to answer. I’ve been attracted to her for quite some time. I’m not in love with her, but it’s a pretty strong physical attraction. Nothing more.

I couldn’t answer her at first, but eventually I mustered up the courage (stupidity?), and told her that yes, I was attracted to her.

Her response seemed fine at first. She didn’t bat an eye, and said that this happens often, and that it’s normal.

Then she said, “you know I’m not gay.”

What on earth made her think that I think she is gay? I can be attracted to a heterosexual and NOT think she is gay. Wasn’t expecting that one. And quite frankly, I didn’t ever want to know about her sexual preference!

She then said that “you know you can’t expect anything to happen, and because of my profession, it’s absolutely unethical.”

Well I knew that too, and I know she has to say that. But it seems as if I finally tell her I’m attracted to her – and she immediately assumes I think she’s gay, and that I think something would happen? I’d never think those things – ever. And I never once thought she was ever attracted to me. I’d never think that.

I know as a professional she has to be SURE I know nothing will happen. I think she handled it ok, but I’m still offended. I think it would have been enough to say “You know nothing can or will happen, and it’s totally unethical for that to happen in a therapeutic setting.” Seems like her response was overkill to me.

I don’t think she is, or ever was, gay. I never would act on my feelings, EVER, and I’d never ever think she would act unethically, in any way. And yet the moment I tell her I’m attracted to her, she assumes I think all of the above. How can I not be offended?

I do plan on talking to her about it all. She had also said to me, many times, “just because you have feelings, doesn’t mean you have to act on them. “ What on earth have I ever “acted on?” I’m a very moral, appropriate person, and have respected all boundaries in that office. I admit my attraction, and I end up feeling completely ashamed and totally humiliated - though I know that was NOT her intention. Maybe I am too sensitive? It was so hard to admit, but I just feel terrible about it. I think that has more to do with me than her. I do think she was appropriate, but it was …odd. Maybe it’s me.

So, just wanted some advice on what you guys and gals think. I think the most obvious offense was her immediate statement, “I’m not gay.” Maybe she was the one who was offended? I think this is strange, and just wanted some input before my next session.

Thank you!!

I would find her response really annoying were I in your shoes. It seems kind of beside the point what her own orientation is...it's almost like she felt compelled to get her hetero ticket punched in addition to reminding you, in a perhaps patronizing way, that nothing could happen.

Both things have little to do with you in a lot of respects. OF COURSE you knew both of these things...right?

You wanted to deal with your feelings, not her boundaries or her orientation. Am I at all on-base here?

[WikidPissah]

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

Can I steal that phrase, Wikid? Blowing out a candle with a fire hose! That's awesome. My husband does that ALL the time.

lol go ahead, I just made it up

[seventyeight]

so because she's "not gay" she won't sleep with you, but otherwise she would?

[SpiritRunner]

my first T told me that while she believed there was a spectrum or whatever and a lot of people were actually in the middle (a fluid sort of thing, like it is with me, really) she was most definitely on the heterosexual end. I didn't feel offended at her, because she was just being matter of fact really about how she was solid in her own sexual identity but accepting of the fluidity in mine. she was more definite in that nothing would ever happen between us because it wouldn't even be ethical - and she was ALWAYS ethical, whatever her other mistakes were!
your T might have been less tactful than she should have been or clumsy in that particular statement, but I don't think she meant any offense, rather that she just wanted to be clear about her sexual identity as well as being clear that there wouldn't be any unprofessional advances, probably.
I think you're handling this in a clearheaded, appropriate way too.

[missrachel33]

Originally Posted by Dreamy01

I can understand you feeling upset. I suspect I would have the same feelings in your situation.

That said, I don't think your T has said anything wrong as such, but definite overkill. It sounds like she reacted out of her own feelings/needs when she said 'I'm not gay'. Something in her needed to be sure you knew that. I can see why that has offended you. She didnt have to say that. And in doing so, she has hurt your sense of knowing you're a moral person who respects her boundaries and the need for her to be aware of it too. I like to think I'm a respectful person when it comes to boundaries in T's office and any sort of overreaction would hurt me too.

I'm glad you're planning to talk to T about it. I'm sure she will realise her mistake. She sounds a good, ethical T. She reacted out of her needs and it isn't any reflection on you.

Thanks for understanding - so many great replies here. Yes, I just can't get over the "Gay" comment. Methinks she doth protest too much. And the really funny thing? After that, she proceeded to tell me she too had an attraction to her own therapist years ago, and that he was "The best looking man I'd ever seen." I really wanted to laugh and say, "yes, I get you like Di$#." I mean, my attraction REALLY offended her sexual identity, and I find that very odd, and a bit telling.

When a straight male comes on to me, I don't say "Oh, I'm gay!" I say I'm in a relationship, and I'm not interested, but thank you anyway. I'm also in a career where I can't get involved with my clients. I had one man ask me to dinner. I didn't say "Oh, I'm gay." I said that any relationship outside the office is not ethical in my career, and I cannot have contact with any client outside the office (I'm NOT a psychotherapist, by the way, but my job has similar rules and ethics, that I adhere to). But I never have felt the need to say "I'm gay," because it has NO bearing on the situation, and it's quite frankly none of their business. And I REALLY didn't want to learn about her orientation, either. Eww.

I will try to keep a calm head. I realize she did handle it as best she could, and she's human. But so am I. I fully intend on talking to her about this, and explaining why I am so offended.

I'm SO moral, in fact, that once after a session, she stood up to walk me out. She dropped something, and while getting it, her shirt lowered, and I saw cleavage. I IMMEDIATELY, and without hesitation, turned my head to give her privacy. Did I want to? Honestly? No! I wanted to look, of course, but I would never take advantage of a vulnerability like that. I'm highly moral...but she made me feel like a dillusional pervert!

After thinking about it, I think having a gay person attracted to her somehow, in some weird way, is an affront to her own sexuality.

Thanks for the empathy. I thought the hardest part would be admitting my attraction, NOT dealing w/ her reaction to it!

[critterlady]

I'm sorry she reacted that way. It sounds like a fairly classic counter-transference reaction.

It also sounds to me like she is not a therapist who thinks working through the transference is useful or important. Many (maybe even most) believe that it's the key to the therapeutic relationship and holds many clues to the client's needs and relationship issues. Unfortunately, there are also those who get freaked out by it.

[missrachel33]

Originally Posted by critterlady

I'm sorry she reacted that way. It sounds like a fairly classic counter-transference reaction.

It also sounds to me like she is not a therapist who thinks working through the transference is useful or important. Many (maybe even most) believe that it's the key to the therapeutic relationship and holds many clues to the client's needs and relationship issues. Unfortunately, there are also those who get freaked out by it.

Hi there! I'd like to know more about why you think it's a counter transference issue. I really am curious, since it's the thing that offended me the most about the situation.

I guess writing it all out limits info. I think I didn't articulate that she actual does think it's all important. When I told her I was sorry I said anything, she said, "Why? It's all important in here." I think we will talk more about it. I get the impression she think's it's very important, but not sure she'd ever address w/ me any counter-transference (should she?). That's why I was most curious to read more of your thoughts! Thanks for the input, it does help!

[critterlady]

Originally Posted by missrachel33

Hi there! I'd like to know more about why you think it's a counter transference issue. I really am curious, since it's the thing that offended me the most about the situation.

I guess writing it all out limits info. I think I didn't articulate that she actual does think it's all important. When I told her I was sorry I said anything, she said, "Why? It's all important in here." I think we will talk more about it. I get the impression she think's it's very important, but not sure she'd ever address w/ me any counter-transference (should she?). That's why I was most curious to read more of your thoughts! Thanks for the input, it does help!

I suspect counter-transference because her reaction had nothing to do with your disclosure of your feelings. As a trained therapist, she knows intellectually that the sexual orientation and gender of the client and therapist are irrelevant to transference. For her to immediately profess her heterosexuality says to me that she's projecting some issue of her own into the transference you disclosed.

If she's attuned to her own feelings on it and doesn't work through them in her own therapy, I think she should talk about her possible counter-transference. As a client, you have the right to know about possible barriers to her dealing appropriately with any issue.

[ListenMoreTalkLess]

You know, I had a very similar conversation with my T about a year ago. My memory is fuzzy, but she said, "you know I'm gay, right?" She has pictures of her wife and kids and we have occasionally swapped "my wife does this" stories (I'm a guy). She is very open about her orientation and family life, so it's never been a mystery to me. Since I've had romantic feelings for pretty much every T I've ever had, of both genders and all kinds of orientations, clearly who my T is attracted to doesn't really play a role in this kind of transference. I have always been pretty aware that my romantic feelings (including the most interesting time, when I was attracted to my gay male T) are about the emotional care I've been given, not really true eroticism or lust. I've always been real clear that I am completely head over heels in love with my wife of 15 years. I've shared these "romantic" feelings with I think every T I've had, and the response has always felt kind of the same.

Since safety in my T relationship is a big issue with me, they have all said in all kinds of different ways that "you're safe with me, I'm not attracted to you, and even if I were, it wouldn't be ethical for me to act on that." I think all of those things are important for a T to state, at least they were important to me.

So my interpretation of what your T said that you seem to be struggling with is that she was trying to reassure you that she was not attracted to you. Seems to me that it's a pretty good argument that you're not attracted to someone when you aren't into that gender. And this makes it nonpersonal, as in, I felt my T was saying to me, you are a lovable, attractive, appealing man but I would never be attracted to you regardless of how many positive qualities you possess because I'm not into men. I found that comforting, and safe.

By all means you should discuss your reaction to her communicating around her orientation and how you feel and felt about it, that's the really important work to do here. I guess I just wanted to point out a possible reason why talking about her orientation in this context might have been a productive way to go about discussing it with you. JMO.

[lostin08]

missrachel All therapist do that, letting us know things like I am not gay. I believe they do this to stay clear on their boundries. Especially if she kind of said it fast. I tried to talk to my T about a having a lesbian relationship without sex. I thought she was going to have a heart attack... she said isn't sex a given. um for me no! Don't take her issue on you have enough of your own right?

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by Dreamy01

It sounds like she reacted out of her own feelings/needs when she said 'I'm not gay'. Something in her needed to be sure you knew that. I can see why that has offended you.

SPECULATION:

T is afraid people might think she is gay.
Maybe she is not comfortable about her own sexuality?

[missrachel33]

Originally Posted by mcl6136

I would find her response really annoying were I in your shoes. It seems kind of beside the point what her own orientation is...it's almost like she felt compelled to get her hetero ticket punched in addition to reminding you, in a perhaps patronizing way, that nothing could happen.

Both things have little to do with you in a lot of respects. OF COURSE you knew both of these things...right?

You wanted to deal with your feelings, not her boundaries or her orientation. Am I at all on-base here?

YES! You got it. I am more annoyed by her reaction, the more I think about it. Why do I care what orientation she is? Why was this so offensive to her? Why on earth would I ever think anyone is gay, just because I find them attractive? BOY, wouldn't THAT be a fancy trick! Talk about dillusional thinking! And yes, I never once thought she was gay, and I never, ever thought she was attracted to me. Ever. I am so confused at what she was SO intentioned on making it known she is straight? Who cares?!

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by missrachel33

I will try to keep a calm head. I realize she did handle it as best she could, and she's human. But so am I. I fully intend on talking to her about this, and explaining why I am so offended.

This is an excellent plan.

I am just reading this now and i am in a similiar situation, a gay female who declared her love for her T, who I will be seeing this week after ,my amorous email lol...not looking forward to it but It seems like your T has an issue with being gay that she was so defensive about it almost-"I am not Gay"- like you said it doesn't matter if she was, she didn't need to point it out, you were simply telling her you liked her not that you wanted to marry her, it sounds as though she totally overreacted

[geez]

Curious to hear if any more discussion took place on this topic with your T. Sounds like she may be attracted to you on some level hence the 'over doing it' with putting out the candle with a fire hose analogy. Or she has issues with her own sexuality that's why she reacted so strongly.

[LoneWolfie]

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

Can I steal that phrase, Wikid? Blowing out a candle with a fire hose! That's awesome. My husband does that ALL the time.

Yeah me too because I cracked up and today has been a sad day. So while I know you didn't mean it as a joke, you made my day.

LoneWolfie

[shipping]

Elsewhere I have posted my T's response when I told her of my feelings. Saying "you know I'm not gay" is insulting. It shows only that she is insecure with her own sexuality and boundaries. I would find this kind of statement hard to forgive as it is quite selfish.

Originally Posted by shipping

Elsewhere I have posted my T's response when I told her of my feelings. Saying "you know I'm not gay" is insulting. It shows only that she is insecure with her own sexuality and boundaries. I would find this kind of statement hard to forgive as it is quite selfish.

I couldn't agree more, she was very insecure about her own sexuality. maybe I am reading too much into it but it is almost like she is afraid of her sexuality