empathy as adversarial

Stopdog, I think that if your T is using empathy statements and you regularly perceive them as pointless or adversarial, then she should get a clue and try something else. It does not sound like she is learning from her experience with you but keeps reacting to you in one, stock way. Isn’t she paying attention?

As sconnie said, I think empathy statements can be a way for the T to check if he understood correctly what the client is feeling. The client has a chance to correct. I am OK with the T checking to see if we are on the same page, because I want us to be communicating accurately.

I have a hard time believing any client actually used those words. Sounds like a therapist’s fantasy of the words a client would use.

My T sometimes tells me what is “normal” and it makes me feel alien or disenfranchised when I realize I feel differently than what is “normal.” It also makes me feel like T is trying to put me in a box to try to understand me. Like if he says, “usually when people get divorced, they feel X” or “women tend to react in such and such a way”, it makes me feel like “huh? I am divorced. [or, I am female.] And I do not feel that way at all.” T is trying to put me in the “female box” he has constructed in his head, and I do not fit. On the other hand if my T tells me I am normal because I feel X and it is true, it can help. Like if I am still grieving my father’s death after X months, and he tells me this is not uncommon, I am reassured.

Stopdog, this is a really interesting book on communication in therapy: Making Contact: Uses of Language in Psychotherapy by Leston Havens. He talks about the use of language to draw closer or farther away from a client, because the therapeutic distance is not the same for all clients. He seems very sensitive to this distance and described clients that he had to work with at a far distance and others very close, and he may vary this as therapy with them changes. I was impressed at his perceptiveness. It sounds like the books you have been reading are assuming that the distance would be the same for all clients. Who is this mythical, typical client, anyway?

I have therapy today and I am going to watch if T makes any empathy statements and what my inner reaction to them is.

I think that my mother defined how I should feel all of the time--as an extension of her. So, I'm pretty defended any time I feel like someone is telling me how I should or would feel about something. I don't believe that's what T is doing, but some childhood defenses are activated nonetheless.

Not sure about "normal" as I don't think there's any such thing. But for me anyway, and I'm the only one for whom I can speak of course, is that it's validating - validating that how I feel is real - in my particular case because of constantly having my feelings belittled, made fun of, put down, punished, dismissed etc. as I was growing up. It's helpful to me to have someone compassionately acknowledge that my feelings are real. Sorry if I went off on a tangent.

I understand how me validating me is useful, but not how someone else, certainly not some therapist, helps.

Could you or would you describe how it is useful to you? What does it do for you to have them validated by someone else? I am not criticizing here - I just do not understand. I understand how me validating me is useful, but not how someone else, certainly not some therapist, helps.

Do you acknowledge that you are not alone in the room, and that therefore you are saying "me validating me" is not enough?

Could you or would you describe how it is useful to you? What does it do for you to have them validated by someone else? I am not criticizing here - I just do not understand. I understand how me validating me is useful, but not how someone else, certainly not some therapist, helps.

Maybe that's my problem. If me validating me isn't enough, what the hell am I going to do then?? I have no desire for outside approval.

In therapy? I realize the therapist is there. I do not understand what you mean.

pbutton, I think we sometimes invalidate ourselves as a survival mechanism. It's easier to survive something if you convince yourself that it's no big deal. At least that is what I did, in addition to others invalidating me. Just kept telling myself it's not so bad. I can live through this. This is nothing really. I can live through this. It's no big deal; I was overreacting before. I can live through this. And I did, so clearly I was right and it was no big deal.

Oh that's right. I think we've had this conversation before. Then I say, so why are you in therapy, if you validating you is enough. And you say, because a,b,c. And we are back to, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make her drink. Have you tried switching places with your T? Maybe you should try having some empathy for her. Just as an experiment. See what happens. My T says he is not impervious, btw. And how is T not "real life"? Are the laws of physics suspended when you enter the room? Time stops, there's no gravity, I really DO look like Brigitte Bardot, what?

pbutton, I think we sometimes invalidate ourselves as a survival mechanism. It's easier to survive something if you convince yourself that it's no big deal. At least that is what I did, in addition to others invalidating me. Just kept telling myself it's not so bad. I can live through this. This is nothing really. I can live through this. It's no big deal; I was overreacting before. I can live through this. And I did, so clearly I was right and it was no big deal.

Trigger for mention of CSA...


I second guess myself all.the.time. When I was growing up, almost every .

For example, when I told T about my CSA, one of the things I was concerned about was whether I had made a bigger deal out of it than it really was. When I was finally able to tell him exactly what happened and he validated my perceptions (actually, he thinks it's even bigger than I had let on), it made me feel like I wasn't being a drama queen.

ha ha that's always how i refer to feeling in therapy. i'm trying to be more accepting of feeeeeelings. i have eliminated the eye roll that goes with it.

Ahh. My response to her over the top response to my description was that the one I see is a big drama queen about my csa.

So if csa is no big deal, why do we even bother with all the trigger warnings? Should anyone who had csa just suck it up and quit whining? Does that mean that people who are traumatized by csa just wimps? Weaklings? We should be tougher, and just shrug it off?

Call me a wimp, then. Call me a wuss. But csa just pisses the hell out of me.