[sittingatwatersedge]

T.... if I email you with what is in my heart now, show you the frustration and the pain... and you never give me a word in reply

then when i next see you, my inclination is to not mention the fact that I emailed you, or even that I had that frustration or pain.

when I don't bring it up do you wonder about it? do you even remember that I felt that way, that I tried to share it with you?

do you intend to set me a new pattern of not sharing with you, because that's what people do in real life after all - they just suck it up and don't share it?

is this a deterioration of communication? or is it supposed to be healing me - and if healing, from what?

you know I really can't tell.

SAWE

Can you email and say, FYI.... I need you to acknowledge me and my emotions right now?

[rainbow8]

I'm sorry you feel unheard by your T. Can you tell her about or show her your post? It could be that she wants to hear your frustration and pain right there when you are with her, which is much more difficult, of course. I know how bad it feels when our T doesn't acknowledge our feelings. My T never responds to anything I send her in an email unless I bring it up, even if it was strong feelings.

Has she responded to those kind of emails before? A lot of therapists won't, not for any malicious reasons but as Rainbow said because they want to hear us talk about those things in person, too. And if she has, and this is something new, that's something to talk to her about too. Why are you not bringing it up but then wondering what she's thinking, are you testing her if she'll say something? Not judging or being critical, I promise, because I've done it myself. But it never works, direct honest communication is the way to go. I really would believe your T wants to hear about it and help you, she is not trying to set you up for anything.

[sittingatwatersedge]

Has she responded to those kind of emails before? [yes in fact she told me she would always respond unless I specifically said no need to] A lot of therapists won't, not for any malicious reasons but as Rainbow said because they want to hear us talk about those things in person, too. And if she has, and this is something new, that's something to talk to her about too. Why are you not bringing it up but then wondering what she's thinking, are you testing her if she'll say something? [no by the time a week has gone by with no response, I feel more like, WTH, if it was important to the work at all, you would have said something. so I just don't mention it any more. This has happened at least once already.] Not judging or being critical, I promise, because I've done it myself. [no problem ] But it never works, direct honest communication is the way to go. I really would believe your T wants to hear about it and help you, she is not trying to set you
up for anything.
[who knows maybe she IS trying to teach me that IRL, people just suck it up.
I really can't tell.
It's possible that suffering through this is supposed to teach you something (not that 'T doesn't care', something real I mean, something I can use in my life). I just can't seem to "get it" - which is why I was frustrated and in pain in the first place.]

[Sunne]

I can relate to this. Maybe she is employing you to work through it on your own? I thought T's were our place away from real life. As in different from friends and family who expect you to 'get over it' or can't be supportive because of their own issues..

My T has really backed off to allow me to work things out without him. It's painful. When it changes. Seems inevitable, unfortunately. Expecially when you don't feel ready or are left in the dark about the changes.

I'd ask your T next time you see her what's up and the reasoning for her silence.

[pbutton]

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

do you intend to set me a new pattern of not sharing with you, because that's what people do in real life after all - they just suck it up and don't share it?

I think this assumes that she knows what you're doing and why. Perhaps she's operating under the assumption that if you want to talk about the emails, you will broach the topics in session. She may think that you're not bringing it up because you're no longer thinking about that topic.

[healed84]

I feel ya SAWE.. I am in the same boat!

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by Sunne

My T has really backed off to allow me to work things out without him. It's painful. Expecially when you don't feel ready or are left in the dark [...] I'd ask your T next time you see her what's up and the reasoning for her silence.

Sunne, you have put this well & I suspect this is the real answer, if there is just one answer. But talk to her about that? at least right now... I dare not.

I think consistency is much more therapeutic. Talk of T's backing off alarms me. We work through things together. I'm sure it is best to ask a therapist directly if they are 'backing off'.

My therapist has replied to every single email I've sent her in the past 9yrs. That's not to boast. Just to point out that backing off isn't necessary. I can't say it's held me back nor taken away my abilty to work things out on my own. I'm if anything more able to work things out.

I think this attitude of being taught a lesson etc or being suddenly ignore to toughen us up is transference. Or a therapist that's out of their depth?

[anilam]

She didn't respond, so did she acknowledge getting the mail (i.e. are you sure she got it?)
If you are- have you bring it up in the session? Cause my T would never brought up a topic if I was talking about stg. It's only when I'm struggling for a prolong period of time that he does that.

I don't believe in reading between lines in therapy- if you think she may be trying to teach you a lesson (I know you didn't use these words, but that how It would feel like- silent manipulation- come on T can't you say it out loud? Plus most of us are some experts on sucking it up anyways).

Please try to bring it up in your next session/ write her a mail about that...I will help clear the air.

[skysblue]

I wonder if therapists need to take a class titled "How to Create Safe and Reasonable Contact with Clients between Sessions". Or is the class titled, "Create your Boundaries; Consistency not Required"? Or maybe it's called, "Keep your Clients on Edge and they'll keep Coming for More". Or maybe...

[Perna]

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

I really can't tell.

No, one really can't tell; that's what words are for, to ask, "Hey, what's with this? I'm thinking __________, what are/were you thinking?"

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by earthmamma

I think this attitude of being taught a lesson etc or being suddenly ignore to toughen us up is transference.

not an attitude, just an idea.
and it isn't transference, but since transference is a tool, it can be used in this way i suppose.

I don't believe that a T should feel bound to wipe every sniffle that comes out of Client, in person or via email; if Client is in crisis T should be there yes, but if Client needs to work through something & T senses no crisis, then perhaps Client should be given space to do so.... even though it may be painful. This is painful work, rewiring after 50 yrs of reinforcing the old pathways.

I *know* there's nothing I can throw at her that she can't handle - I will try to work on it myself and see what happens. No emailed histrionics, no hissies in session... we'll see.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

T.... if I email you with what is in my heart now, show you the frustration and the pain... and you never give me a word in reply

I think it is very difficult to tell in an email whether someone is speaking from her heart or not, and it is also difficult to "show" people frustration and pain in writing.

You feel that you communicated these things, and IF she didn't hear you, that doesn't mean that you did something wrong. Nor does it have to mean that she did something wrong in failing to hear you.

And do you leave room for the possibility of her email being lost, or her mistakenly moving it to another mailbox or accidentally deleting it. I get TONS of email, and I have a very organized system of moving emails into folders and creating hierarchies for responding, and then I sometimes have a whole string of emails from various listserves and what not that I don't have time to read, so I delete them. Sometimes in the midst of all of this I miss stuff. People who know me and know that I always respond to emails will send me a second email after a few days and ask if something happened.

I will also resend emails to people if they haven't responded after a few days, if they are typically people who don't blow me off. Lots of busy people take days or more than a week to respond.

I think that as the client who wants a response to email, you may need to occasionally resend an email to your T and ask for it.

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

then when i next see you, my inclination is to not mention the fact that I emailed you, or even that I had that frustration or pain.

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

And I think this is your responsibility, not your T's. You need to bring things to the session that cause you pain and/or that you want to talk about it. Your T can't do it for you, your T would never want to impose an agenda on you, that is just not how T's work unless you have worked out something different.

If you want help in understanding your reaction and/or changing it, the only way that is going to happen is if you put it out there in front of your T. And probably not in an email, but in actual session.

The only exception to having an agenda item that my T raised was when I had called him one day and I didn't get a call back; it was time sensitive because I was having a scary medical procedure. I called him back the next day and found out that the receptionist had never given him the message. The next session he raised it as an issue and wanted me to know that the temp person was the one who made the mistake and that he had talked to her about it.

But you could ask your T, I would think, if she would be willing to raises issues that you flag in your email as things you want her to raise? I don't know if this would solve the current cupcake problem, but perhaps the lesson of this interaction or not with your T is to discuss the email contact issue. Maybe one thing for you to consider is to stop emailing and just reserve your issues for session. Perhaps that would encourage you to talk more freely during sessions. I found this was true for me when I stopped writing in a journal consistently and giving it to my T to read after sessions.

[sittingatwatersedge]

She didn't respond, so did she acknowledge getting the mail (i.e. are you sure she got it?)
no acknowledgement, I just sent it yesterday morning. She splits her time between several offices and no, may not have seen it.
Cause my T would never brought up a topic if I was talking about stg. It's only when I'm struggling for a prolong period of time that he does that. right same here. I won't know till next week whether I will bring this up next week. I was just spiraling and made a thread here, maybe shouldn't have.

I don't believe in reading between lines in therapy- I don't think people can avoid it, trying to make sense of another person is basic human nature
if you think she may be trying to teach you a lesson (I know you didn't use these words,no I used those words, i think
but that how It would feel like- silent manipulation- T1 would attempt to manipulate sometimes, but that's not T2's style. my Mom was the champ of that technique, and I'm on to it pretty fast

most of us are some experts on sucking it up anyways
yep maybe that's why we are in T anyway, ya think?
Please try to bring it up in your next session/ write her a mail about that...It will help clear the air
thanks

[~EnlightenMe~]

I wonder if your therapist wants you to express what you are expressing in the email in person? It is easier to express emotions in email than to sit in front of another person and feel and express them. I don't think she is ignoring you or backing away, I think she is waiting until you are ready. I don't know, of course, but that's what I think. Hugs to you, SAWE.

[sittingatwatersedge]

I think it's relatively easy to convey frustration or pain in writing. Maybe the difficulty lies in the reader.

(SAWE)when i next see you, my inclination is to not mention the fact that I emailed you, or even that I had that frustration or pain
And I think this is your responsibility, not your T's. You need to bring things to the session that cause you pain and/or that you want to talk about it. Your T can't do it for you,
I never said she should, Anne, or anything like that. I only said >> when I don't bring it up do you wonder about it? do you even remember that I felt that way, that I tried to share it with you?
and I think it's perfectly legit to wonder such a thing.

>> perhaps the lesson of this interaction or not with your T is to discuss the email contact issue. we already have.
Maybe one thing for you to consider is to stop emailing and just reserve your issues for session.
where do you get this? I rarely email her. Of course you wouldn't know that, would ya
I only email her when I can't work for the therapy issues are getting to me; say, a very disturbing dream; this time, a spiral.

Perhaps that would encourage you to talk more freely during sessions.
you don't know how freely I talk in sessions. Something that has come up once before is hardly A Trend.

Anne I am going to start a thread about journals, thanks for the reminder.

[~EnlightenMe~]

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

not an attitude, just an idea.
and it isn't transference, but since transference is a tool, it can be used in this way i suppose.

I don't believe that a T should feel bound to wipe every sniffle that comes out of Client, in person or via email; if Client is in crisis T should be there yes, but if Client needs to work through something & T senses no crisis, then perhaps Client should be given space to do so.... even though it may be painful. This is painful work, rewiring after 50 yrs of reinforcing the old pathways.

I *know* there's nothing I can throw at her that she can't handle - I will try to work on it myself and see what happens. No emailed histrionics, no hissies in session... we'll see.

((((SAWE))))
I sense your pain, and I wish that you wouldn't characterize your struggle as 'histrionics' or 'hissies', that minimize the pain you are feeling. What I see is you struggling, trying to work through this issue, even if you don't have it figured out yet.

I still think, as I just posted, that she is waiting for you to express your pain in session, maybe she doesn't know if you are ready to do this or not so she is not bringing up the subject? I do hope that you can go into session and at least tell her how you felt, even if you don't feel it at the time. I would email my xT angry emails, and then experience massive shame in session. It took me awhile to express my anger in session. When is your next session?

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

where do you get this? I rarely email her.

I offered it as a suggestion, not as a fact.

Clearly, I have misread your original post, and your answers to me sound defensive and don't seem responsive to the points I raised.

I'm definitely not a perfect reader, but many of us are not as clear as communicators as we think that we are, either in writing or speaking. You are of course free to blame the reader all you want, but one thing I've learned about writing through both professional work and creative writing study/groups, is that you rarely improve as a writer if all you do is get miffed at people for not getting what you had to say. And until you understand why your reader has difficulty getting your meaning, you're not going to be able to fix what's getting in the way of your communication.

Over and out.

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

you rarely improve as a writer if all you do is get miffed at people for not getting what you had to say. Over and out.

I'm not miffed, Anne. sorry I miffed you!!

I read all replies to my posts, but I don't go very much.... that kind of response will be fairly rare... I guess assumptions that don't hold up just don't seem to help me. I did appreciate your comment about your experience with journaling.

I don't feel that I have a communication problem with T,and from what she has said, neither does she. On this occasion I was spiraling, and I posted here, and apparently shouldn't have, it was TMI.
perhaps I will try to be less heart-on-sleeve in future (IOW: I should suck it up cupcake)

[stopdog]

I would hope posting here is exactly the sort of thing one could do in such a situation.i don't think it was tmi or that it is a suck it up cupcake situation.

[Sunne]

Originally Posted by earthmamma

I think consistency is much more therapeutic. Talk of T's backing off alarms me. We work through things together. I'm sure it is best to ask a therapist directly if they are 'backing off'.

My therapist has replied to every single email I've sent her in the past 9yrs. That's not to boast. Just to point out that backing off isn't necessary. I can't say it's held me back nor taken away my abilty to work things out on my own. I'm if anything more able to work things out.

I think this attitude of being taught a lesson etc or being suddenly ignore to toughen us up is transference. Or a therapist that's out of their depth?

He has responded to each one of my emails as well. By back off, I mean he is becoming more like a coach on the sidelines rather than swooping in to fix things. He also sometimes lets more time go by between responding to my emails. Usually it's within a few hours though, and he reminds me to use my tools as opposed to other things he did in the past.
He's allowing me to try and work through some of my issues without him, which I need to learn to do. So, I do think backing off in some regards is healthy and needed for some clients. It's painful, but it's necessary.. for me.

He never ever ignores me though!

[sittingatwatersedge]

thanks Sunne, that's what I meant (you said it better than I did).

Sitting, I am sorry your t is not replying after replying before to your emails. Only she knows why and I think you should ask her. People say that ts don't play games but I can't help feel like they do sometimes, especially when they reel us in and then fire us out again.
They have so much power over us if we attach and backing off and not replying is playing a game with the vulnerable, like a cat and mouse. Boundaries are so important but it is up to t to set them and if she feels overwhelmed then she should tell you and not just ignore the email.