My H says I don't need 90 minutes

I think we pass thru an "unreal" r/s, in that it is one-sided, in order to rebuild. Rainbow's H gets his narcissistic supplies in other ways, almost every evening (at some actIvItIes that dont Include her). Why hasn't that made him the most loving h this side of Romeo? A r/s isn't simple cause and effect.

Rainbow needs the support of her T. It's T's job to put in the boundaries that the client needs. Yes maybe she needs to work on outside relationships but maybe there are reasons why those relationships are broke. Maybe they aren't as broken as she unknowingly portrays them. I really think her husband is doing a power play because "he makes the money". It's Only $6 more! If her husband feels threatened by the relationship that's something he has to deal with and it's on him. Not treat her like a child.

I'm sorry rainbow this thread turned out this way. Please stick around.

IDK, but I always find it rather strange when ppl on PC say what somebody ought to do- we don't know each other so well around here (yes, there are some exception to that rule but generally we don't).
We may think we know what's best for the person but that still doesn't mean that's true. Plus that's not what the OP was asking bout anyway so why give these advices?

For the same reason we talk back to the TV??

Or because we see there "younger" (from days past) version of ourselves or somebody in our lifes in them.

Hi Everyone,
I was in the middle of writing a whole long mesage and it bumped me off the page. Maybe it's a sign that I shouldn't have written it. Let's try.
I honestly don't know where to begin. I'm so angry at yet another of Rainbow's threads turning into a controversy with so many people ending up criticizing her as they have for years. Even after she's hung around, bravely listened to every thing you had to say and has tried I feel to the best of her ability to grow from it, and I feel is doing very well with everything right now. People don't make improvements as fast as some of you think it's supposed to happen. It seems like in this past year I've been on here, she's really done some good work on the attachment issue, work that she probably hasn't done before. Because of this, the other years she was in therapy were important as they lead up to doing this work, but you can't say that just because she's in T for a long time that this should be done with or resolved quickly.
People have different experiences as Hankster pointed out. The so often quoted post that I think her name was scorpiosis wrote was very romantic and idealized, and doesn't at all reflect the reality of their relationship. It seems like Rainbow and her husband are really in a rough place. She tried to bring him to therapy, she tried to give him more attention. He seems to lack compassion and caring towards her, and that's hard. She said she's not sure if she loves him, but also not sure that he loves her. This must be painful. I feel my parents have been in this kind of place for years, totally miserable but not able to actually separate. It's heartbreaking for them and others involved.
I'm like only twenty four, and haven't ever even dated, but I agree with the people who say that it's not her husband's place to tell her how to spend the money, or be so bent out of shape that she goes to therapy. It sounds like a little therapy wouldn't hurt him!
I'm just more fed up with some of the people around here. And I know a moderator will probably come and close this thread as it's how it always end. And maybe repremand me for what I'm saying here but I honestly don't care. I'm not someone who expresses anger often, and it's very overwhelming for me to even feel this way. But I think even if I were in front of you all right now I'd be yelling with tears streaming down myface. And I know some of you would have some critical remarks about that. It's just so sad to me that this place was started by a psychologist and I assume other people interested in helping others, to be a place where people feel safe and not judged, for support. Not for people to turn into advice givers, thinking they know how others should live their lives, or be so pushy that the person feels completely overwhelmed. Dr. John even made a permanent note about this and though it's helped some, not enough for me at least, and maybe not enough for you either Rainbow.
Rainbow, you know I give you all the credit in the world for what you're doing, from putting up with your husband's lack of understanding/ caring and still trying to find your voice and do what's right for you in that, to the steps you've taken in the issue of attachment with your t, to dealing with the criticism here. Probably everyone hates me now, but I honestly don't care. I had to say what I was feeling because this place has driven me crazy for a few months now. It's sad too because when I came I felt it was so supportive and you could say anything, now I know you can't. Oh and I bet someone will diagnose me as narcistic or attention seeking or some crazy thing. I'll be amused to see what you come up with. Bye all, if I know you're someone I feel comfortable with, I'll PM you. If I feel I can say something helpful in a post, I'll contribute and always give a hug or thanks. But I'm done with everyone else, this is insane.

I think sis's letter keeps getting quoted as a software glitch, it comes up Everytime I try to respond to anything. Adel, I'm sorry you feel badly. It's true, this is a huge topic. It's like the gist of the feminist movement almost, or one of the bones. As such, I think it triggers many of us. I hope rainbow isn't taking it as a personal criticism. I think her other recent thread on the subject shows she has made real progress on this. I feel more like we're just kicking around the soccer ball here.

Rainbow, I think you know -- and actually said somewhere back there -- that this isn't about the money, or even the time (does 60 vs. 90 minutes really make a huge difference in how much time you spend with him?). As Scorpio said, those things are symbols. You seem to be aware that this is about resentment, on two accounts: (1) how much more invested you are in your T than you are in him (from HIS perspective, I don't claim to know what's really true), and (2) his resentment of her income, which you seem to share.

Of course he doesn't get to make unilateral decisions about how you spend money, or whether therapy is really helping, and vice versa. If you're going to talk about this, I suggest you tell him that you know it's not about the money or about 30 minutes, and so he may as well take that out of the equation because you believe that this is necessary for your mental health (assuming you do). 30 minutes and $6 aren't going to make a huge difference one way or the other, and it's more that these are concrete things he feels like he can use as leverage against you. It's an emotional issue, and I imagine he feels he has no power emotionally with you (and I think there are also gender differences here, but that may not be the case), so that may be part of why he doesn't appeal to you from an emotional standpoint. It's still bullying, and so it's not ok. But if you want to talk to him about it, you both need to drop the superficial topic of finances and get to the real issue, which is the impact of your T relationship on your marriage. I imagine you're both more comfortable talking about the former, but what you need to be thinking about is the latter.

This will also mean you will need to find your own footing on why therapy is so important to you, what you are getting from it, and whether you can have both your T and your marriage. Your H doesn't get to decide these things... but if you can't provide answers that are productive to your marriage, it's hard to blame him for being unhappy. For being a bully, yes. For feeling like he is on the periphery of your emotional life, no.

A thought about resenting her income... it's always interesting to me, when I see people who resent others who make more money (full disclosure: I do NOT make a lot of money, and did not grow up with money). Because if they were in the same position, they probably wouldn't be cutting their own salaries, would they? If your H could bill someone for $275 and get some decent portion of that ($180 or whatever), he would, I would bet, as would you. Resenting her is getting both of you nowhere. And that's not exactly a flat salary... she still has to pay rent for her office, for her own supplies, any classes she wants to take, licensing, etc. It's not like when you or I get a paycheck from a company. Even if it were... can you honestly say you'd turn it down on principle, because your poorer clients might resent you?

Finally, although you seem unwilling to believe this, I will say it one more time: the Zoloft alone will not make you stop obsessing about your T.

I dunno. I'm way past the honeymoon phase, but I still believe that you won't get a relationship any better than the standards to which you hold it. It can be painful to realize a relationship is way out of balance, or that both parties need to change a lot about they way they behave and relate to each other, but that doesn't make it impossible or even impractical. Just painful. I can't fault anyone for avoiding pain, but if the avoidance results in a lowering of standards, that's pretty much what you'll get. No one can make their partner change, but it's still on that person to decide what kind of relationship they want, and what kind of standards they have for themselves.

When I wrote my post, I had no idea it would attract so much attention. In fact, I'm a little uncomfortable with how much attention it has generated; I've never wanted to be involved in a disagreement/debate on PC. I'm honestly a little surprised that some posters have seemed to take offense at what I wrote. It was my intention to be helpful to Rainbow. I feel as though she and I have posted back and forth to each other a bit over the years, and it's always felt productive to me. I don't know her perspective (unless/until she chooses to share it!), but I really didn't (and still don't) think she would find what I wrote offensive or argumentative. Am I wrong?

Anyway, since what I wrote has spawned so many subsequent posts, I felt as though I should attempt to clarify what I meant in my original post. In retrospect, perhaps I should have made it clear that my post merely reflects my interpretation of everything Rainbow has shared, not only in this thread but but in many threads, over many years. Since Rainbow has indicated, over a period of time, that her H feels unhappy, frustrated and jealous about the amount of time and energy she puts into her T, it seems logical to me that what her H may really upset about is not the money or the length of the session, but the lack of emotional investment that she is putting into him/their relationship/their family. I don't know if Rainbow's H is still in love with her or not, but it seems as though he is still (at least somewhat) invested in their marriage if he has made the decision to stay and he is bothered by what he perceives as her giving T more attention/thought than she gives him. If he were totally checked out, why would he care if Rainbow was spending her emotional energy on her T? I could be wrong, but from how Rainbow explained it, it seems to me that her H wants more of her time and attention. It seems that Rainbow has made an improvement by giving her H hugs, but maybe there are other ways to improve too, like being more "in the moment" with each other. Sometimes, we can do all the tangible "things" for or with someone, but it's that lack of feeling emotionally connected/available/present that the other person wants from us. Is this the case with Rainbow? I don't know, but it was one possibility that jumped out at me. In my original post, my intention was not to TELL rainbow anything; it was to suggest some possibilities that I thought might fit, based on how I interpreted the situation. I think the way Sally Brown explained things is very clear, and I agree with her interpretation of the situation. In many ways, I think she stated some of the same observations I did, without my "flowery" language. And, while my language may have been a bit "flowery," I don't think the argument I was making was unrealistic. I was not saying that a relationship can always be saved or that relationships are always peachy; rather, I was saying that a spouse usually wants to FEEL as though they are getting the majority of their spouse's emotional investment and that they often feel hurt when they see that emotional attention being taken away and invested in someone or something else. I've been on both sides of that situation in the past, and it was very difficult, and left us both unhappy. While I am now in a good relationship with someone new, I don't think that experience is clouding my present judgment. I spent too long in an unhappy relationship in order to be swept up by the first good one that comes my way! It's great right now, but I also know how difficult relationships can be and how much work it takes to maintain a successful one. The last thing I said in my most is something that I believe about therapy in general: that, when therapy is working, it will give you the tools necessary to become more successful in your RL interpersonal relationships. I believe that the goal of therapy is to learn how to direct the lessons you learn in T outwards, so that they can enhance your RL. Sometimes, it will be the case that those in your RL do not have the capacity to change with you, causing a rift in the relationship or causing the relationship to end. However, in many relationships, when we become healthier, we will start recognizing how our old patterns did not work, try out new approaches, become more giving, become better listeners, become more emotionally available, become more present, etc-- thereby becoming better partners/friends/family members. Thus, by changing ourselves (since we cannot change anyone else), we can often improve our relationships. It's NOT easy, but sometimes, the other person will eventually start to meet us half-way (or at least part of the way). Personally, I have had that experience with my dad and my sister. I changed first, I tried to better meet their needs, I listened to their perspective, I was patient, and eventually, they began to slowly come around. I do think change can be possible. I also think that, sometimes, we are in the wrong relationships. But, if we make the decision to stay, I think it makes sense to try and get the most out of the relationship we're in because, often, we can find a way to be less unhappy.

I know Rainbow said, at one point, that she was disappointed that her H was not willing to get his own therapy and cited that as his resistance to working on their marriage/changing himself. That may be true. He may be unwilling to change. I don't know. However, one alternate possibility is that he is resistant to therapy because he does not think (from his perspective) that it is helping Rainbow and therefore, he does not think it will help him or them as a couple. It seems that, from his perspective, therapy is what is hurting their relationship by taking Rainbow's focus away from him/the family, and placing it on T. If he perceives that therapy HURTS his relationship, it would make sense that he would be unwilling to try out more therapy. I'm not suggesting that I AGREE with his refusal to try therapy. Obviously, I'm in therapy and, quite frankly, I think therapy would help just about anyone. I think it would probably be great if he tried therapy. All I'm saying is that his refusal to do therapy himself might not be grounded in his lack of desire to work on the marriage or on himself; it might be a reaction to the way he feels about Rainbow's therapy. Maybe it would be helpful for Rainbow to ask him if he WANTS to work on their marriage, and if he is open to changing some of his behaviors? It would be possible for him to work on some things by himself, without the help of a therapist. Or, it might be helpful to know if he simply is not interested in doing anything differently. Or, if he is interested, maybe they could each agree to do one thing differently, to start? Sometimes, compromises and showing effort can help improve a relationship. Or, maybe the case is that Rainbow is uninterested in working on the relationship because she no longer loves her H? I don't know. I'm just throwing things out there. I suppose that is the kind of feedback I give on PC and in RL because that is the kind of feedback that I appreciate myself. When I write a post or when I talk to my friends, I don't want the kind of "pat on the back" support that some others do. I appreciate honesty, alternative insights, questions, and ideas. For me, I view "support" as people supporting me to be the best version of myself that I can be. I'm here and I'm in therapy because I want to grow, and I want people to help me, challenge me, encourage me, and support me in that journey.

You have alot to learn about relationships. What Rainbow writes about her husband is one side of the story. He is not here to write his side.

• Maybe her view of the H relationship is skewed because she wants the relationship with H to be like that with T.... ALL ME, all the time.

• Maybe 18 years of the same thing in therapy, H is tired of seeing this behavior over and over again in every single therapist and little effort for change (ie. freaking out about T when a baby is born. Who is important?)

• Maybe he is angry that he pays for her to go to therapy, because she says it will help them, but she only wants to focus on her and T and has no desire to translate it outward.

• Maybe he is a jerk.

But look at patterns.
Look at behaviors...

Yes, Change takes time, but a person has to want to change and work at it for real.
Not continuously make excuses for patterns and behaviors over and over.
Not continuously justify patterns and behaviors for years.

That is why someone who constantly posts about her therapy draws split responses. Same patterns and behaviors.... for 18 years...

Journeys are different for each of us. Some are shorter and some are longer. People have different destinations and purposes. I am content to let others have their own experience.

Empty Space: "That is why someone who constantly posts about her therapy draws split responses. "
This is exactly why I'm not posting about my own therapy experience, or thoughts/ feelings about what's going on in my life.
SD: thank you, I completely agree, everyone's journey is different, and I don't think it's fair to tell other people that they're not working "for real" or taking too long, or whatever. I wouldn't do therapy the same way as some people on here, because it wouldn't work for me. But I don't go telling them their way is wrong.
Something interesting... we haven't heard from Rainbow for at least a couple pages, what does that tell you?

Adel34 - The point you are missing is that the OP's posts have been the same for many years. Same issues, different T. You can't read back to 2009/2010 posts, but if you could, you would realize you are supporting the exact patterns/behaviors from years ago, that people in 2009/2010 supported.

Many people post about their therapy here. But most have a desire to change even among those "attached" to their T. Even in the cases of the most hurt clients, they learn to translate what happens with T to their "real-world" lives.

Ever hear: "If a T is doing her job right, she is putting herself out of a job"
T's job is to help and set us free to use what we learned.

As far as the OP. This is the pattern also whenever the OP's posts goes in a different direction than she wants. She has probably reported it and asked for it to be closed.

Adel and Empty, guys, you've got to stop. You've both made your points, can you take this offline? I know I'm not a mod but this is like watching a train wreck.

I don't know if rainbow reported the thread, but I did.

The thread will be closed, good! See, I said this would happen.
I don't usually fight with people on here, but I can't keep quiet anymore. I'm sorry if that triggers people, and I mean that. I'm usually so careful about what I say but not right now, I just can't be.

A
Yup you guessed it!
We must only offer support for behaviors and patterns that are on-going.

For example:
Personal A: I looked at pictures of my T and her family again, but I made sure there weren't pictures of her kids. I know my T is NOT happy with it, but its ok, I needed it. I did look at her husband, because I wanted to.

Person B: Good job!... for not looking at the kids. Who cares if your T doesn't like it... if that were the case, then she should take it off Facebook. Do whatever you feel you need! (irregardless of your T's boundaries or discussion you had with her)

Never encourage a person to reflect on their actions, no matter what they are. Introspection is out.
Support behaviors and patterns... even if they are on-going for years. Change and growth is so over-rated.

Since this is getting closed anyway, you are no longer being supportive in the least so why bother?? Now you are just being sarcastic, which is completely unhelpful...except maybe YOU feel better. This thread triggered you pages ago, I don't see why you keep commenting on it.

For the same reasons that you comment now and seem triggered..?? Do YOU feel better now? Sort of the same mechanism from an outside perspective. Just an observation. No critique

Mine was just an observation as well. I don't actually feel triggered (and you were just being critical, adding that at the end doesn't change the rest of your comment), I just feel sarcasm such as was posted at this point is unnecessary and unsupportive. I was merely stating a fact that he seemed triggered pages ago. Anyway, peacing out on this thread...Rainbow doesn't deserve this.

I would like to express my support and comfort to Rainbow.

I don't think that any of us are really in a position to know what another person, such as Rainbow's h, is thinking or feeling.

Sending my care, Rainbow, and hope you are okay.

What an awful sentiment, to be happy that a thread is being closed before ha OP can even respond, just because YOU are upset. That you forward an agenda against others here by participating in closing down another person's thread -- a thread which was started for Rainbow's own reasons, and probably not so you could react with triumph when it is shut down.

I'm not excited by some of the reactions expressed here either. But I don't consider it a time to attempt to strike out at others by dragging poor Rainbow into my personal battles.

A psychiatrist colleague, who works in a residential program not intended for patients with BPD, said he can always tell when someone with BPD has been admitted, because suddenly the staff are fighting amongst themselves, and friends turn against each other. They usually find that the source of discord is that BPD patient. I don't believe this is done intentionally by Rainbow, but that is often the effect her threads have. I have made one or two angry posts on another person's thread, for sure. But turning against the entire community and using another person's thread to do that is are recipe for disaster. And is the opposite of supportive for the OP.

This is one of those times when hitting the "thanks" button is completely inadequate. So let me just say "thank you" and if I were a religious person, I'd say "amen."

I find it so very unfortunate that members think it's okay to post on a thread and argue between themselves over each other's posts. This certainly is not supportive of the OP in any way shape or form.

Not everyone is expected to agree with everyone else. There are ways of being supportive even when we disagree. Showing a lack of respect to another member for their thoughts and/or ideas is far from showing support. One can disagree with someone but be respectful in that disagreement.

Unfortunately, when members begin arguing, it takes the focus off the OP and the issue they are posting about. That is one reason why this thread will be closed at this time. It has definitely run it's course and then some.

Once again, I will remind everyone of the following posted by DocJohn -