[Wren_]

Does anyone else find it hard not to unintentionally test their therapist? I was thinking about something we talked about the other day and had a sense of that he had somehow failed although at the time I hadn't been aware he was being tested. It wasn't something deliberate more a later recognition that I really wanted and needed him to respond in a way that he didn't. I think that this was reinforced because someone else also failed to react in the same way making the lack even more obvious and I started thinking of the idea of unintentional testing.

[critterlady]

I think I do. Like when I had surgery recently and I thought he might call to see how I was. He didn't, of course, but I was disappointed. In retrospect, that seems like a test - if you really care about me like you say you do, you'll want to see how I'm doing. It was pretty passive-aggressive of me. If I wanted him to check on me, I should have asked him if he would.

[Perna]

It's not really a test of the therapist, it's your feelings and they show you what you are thinking, feeling, doing; my T had me think about "disappointment" for a week for homework and, of course, within an hour of leaving the session my husband was disappointing me It's good to see if you can catch yourself and discuss it with T (or whoever) right then. I had excellent breakthroughs both the week I had to think about "humiliation" and the next week with "disappointment". My stepmother's training growing up had done a job on me with the disappointment thing.

[stopdog]

I don't try not to test the therapist. I think there is nothing wrong with testing a therapist.

[Asiablue]

I set people up for tests they're not even aware of, and i am almost always disappointed. It's a bad habit. I do this with my t's too, especially with my T's actually. And sometimes i deliberately test or push a boundary just to see.... lol

[content30]

I guess I would not say that I test or tested my T, but I would say that I had her constantly on trial. Each of her reactions and actions affected my trust for her and the strengthening of our therapeutic relationship. The better she handled the little things, the more I was able to trust her with the big things.

[scorpiosis37]

I agree with Perna. I don't necessarily think it is "testing" the therapist, but it is wishing that they would react a certain way and then becoming disappointed when they don't. And yes, this has happened in my therapy as well. But, like others have said, when I notice that this is happening, I always try to bring it up in the moment so that I can stop myself and work through it with my T.

[unaluna]

I hate these kinds of emotional tests. I usually fail them because the person giving them is conflicted - they are giving off mixed signals; they think they want one response but they sre also thinking of another response, and I'm picking up both, at least!

I think another problem of doing it in therapy is that you're expecting just a single reaction from your t, like from a friend listening to you, but a t is listening in a more complicated way -they have like at least 5 things say going on at once - they're not likely to just blurt out, gee that's awful! Or whatever, because they're paying attention to all these other things at the same time - what they're feeling, body language, idk what else!

[tinyrabbit]

I find myself wanting to test my T a lot. I try to just be upfront about it rather than expecting him to telepathically know what I want. He says my acting out is rather more on my sleeve than most clients - it's because I'd rather just get to the point where I get what I want than mess about waiting for him to realise.

But then I'm constantly setting little tests as well, like little traps. And often he'll fail those, but then do something else, something better.

[Wren_]

If I'm aware there is some level of need or test then I'm learning to be more upfront and talk about it when its identified. Like the example critterlady gave with surgery - I've done that before and wished my T had asked and been hurt when he didn't. Now I ask before hand, let him clearly know what I expect, realise that he will probably let me down because my needs don't meet the reality of who he is as a person, and then sometimes I've been pleasantly surprised instead. It's the times I don't know that I'm wanting a reaction until later when I find it wasn't there and I wanted it! then I start thinking well ... was it a test; if it was he will probably fail all tests and remembering the many times I've read here things along the line of don't test your T's because they will fail

Hankster that's really interesting about the idea of T following along with 5 things at once; makes a lot of sense

Thanks for everyones input Also planning to mention this with my T

[unaluna]

I should add - my first h used to "test" me, and it was pretty awful. My mother also, so I may be a little oversensitive about it. I've also yelled at my t for trying it on me.

[0w6c379]

I don't see that hoping the T will respond in a certain way is a "test". I think sometimes you just want him (or anyone for that matter) to care. For example, say you call your T and cancel because you have the flu. The next week, let's say you are so sick with a fever you forgot to cancel your appointment altogether with T. Wouldn't it be somewhat natural to hope that your T would think enough of you to call and see how you are? Some people might say, oh well I guess Doris is sick again. Let me see if I can get in some paperwork during her hour. No thought of calling Doris at all because she is just a filler between 2 - 3 pm. I don't see any "test" in that scenario, neither intentional or unintentional. It's just someone wanting their T to care. Maybe that is too much to ask for? IDK.

[unaluna]

Hmm. Yes, that might be normal. So I wonder if the t-cl relationship isn't 50-50, but the t waits until the client has approached him 90% of the way. YKWIM? Do we have to put ourselves out there that much more? They don't make it easy for us. Plus if it were easy for us, would we be in t?

[Wren_]

I don't see that hoping the T will respond in a certain way is a "test". I think sometimes you just want him (or anyone for that matter) to care. For example, say you call your T and cancel because you have the flu. The next week, let's say you are so sick with a fever you forgot to cancel your appointment altogether with T. Wouldn't it be somewhat natural to hope that your T would think enough of you to call and see how you are? Some people might say, oh well I guess Doris is sick again. Let me see if I can get in some paperwork during her hour. No thought of calling Doris at all because she is just a filler between 2 - 3 pm. I don't see any "test" in that scenario, neither intentional or unintentional. It's just someone wanting their T to care. Maybe that is too much to ask for? IDK.

it's more that I caught myself thinking he failed that test; without having realised there was one. I know my T does care; even though I struggle with remembering and believing it at times

Hmm. Yes, that might be normal. So I wonder if the t-cl relationship isn't 50-50, but the t waits until the client has approached him 90% of the way. YKWIM? Do we have to put ourselves out there that much more? They don't make it easy for us. Plus if it were easy for us, would we be in t?

Not sure hankster; then we have our T's own peculiarities to account for eg. mine responds to certain things differently to most people I know which compounds the confusion at times

[purplemystery]

I unintentionally test my T a lot too. I'll act a certain way just to see if she will still accept me. I might act very unconfident or be very quiet and I'll try to fight with myself to say more or look at her, but I can't convince myself. It feels like I'm waiting to see how she will react... pretty fruitless. Thanks for this topic- maybe I'll bring it up with my T.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by tigergirl

it's more that I caught myself thinking he failed that test; without having realised there was one.

It's pretty awesome that you "caught" yourself in that step. Sorry I missed this before! That kinda demonstrates the point. We can't change if we can't "slice" our behavior into these separate steps. In a similar situation for example I might just think, he failed then I'm lost, it's hopeless - and dissociate or get depressed or become self destructive without being able to pinpoint why.

[mixedup_emotions]

One of the biggest tasks in my therapy is to learn how to get my needs met, be more direct and proactive in getting needs met, and taking the risk to ask. I believe my T intentionally does not "offer" so that I can learn.

I totally get the idea of not knowing that we have a need until we feel a certain way after the need is or isn't met. I try to see that as a learning opportunity.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by mixedup_emotions

One of the biggest tasks in my therapy is to learn how to get my needs met, be more direct and proactive in getting needs met, and taking the risk to ask. I believe my T intentionally does not "offer" so that I can learn.

I totally get the idea of not knowing that we have a need until we feel a certain way after the need is or isn't met. I try to see that as a learning opportunity.

Well put. That's what I was trying to say in the other thread about the t rs not being 50-50, more like 10-90.

I am constantly amazed at how well people write here!! I see the seed of thought in my mind, but I have no way of growing it. I dont know how y'all do it, honestly. Either it comes flying straight out of my mouth, or it doesnt!

Eta: oops I guess it was this thread after all! Doh! Im amazed at how well people can READ here!!

[ultramar]

Originally Posted by Michelle25

I don't see that hoping the T will respond in a certain way is a "test". I think sometimes you just want him (or anyone for that matter) to care. For example, say you call your T and cancel because you have the flu. The next week, let's say you are so sick with a fever you forgot to cancel your appointment altogether with T. Wouldn't it be somewhat natural to hope that your T would think enough of you to call and see how you are? Some people might say, oh well I guess Doris is sick again. Let me see if I can get in some paperwork during her hour. No thought of calling Doris at all because she is just a filler between 2 - 3 pm. I don't see any "test" in that scenario, neither intentional or unintentional. It's just someone wanting their T to care. Maybe that is too much to ask for? IDK.

I don't think it's a matter of a dichotomy between being either just a 'filler' on the one hand and someone who's cared about as evidenced by a therapist calling to see how you're doing with the flu on the other --there's a lot in between. A therapist can most certainly care about you and not call you to see how your fever and chills are going; this really isn't therapy-related and is something more that a friend or family-member would do.

I think it would be very unusual for a therapist to call a patient under these circumstances and when such (I think unrealistic) expectations are held, one is bound to end up disappointed, which can lead some people to spiral quite a bit and/or accusing the therapist of abandoning in a time of need. Of course, if a therapist has already set up a pattern of calling when the patient is sick, and then doesn't this one time, that would be different, but I would think this is unusual nonetheless.

I'm not sure where 'testing' and unrealistic expectations meet, but I suspect they intersect somewhere in some cases.

[QuietCat]

Yes, I do this too.
I've had big fall-outs with T over it, because he didn't react the way I wanted, or he'd somehow foresee the test coming and block me from doing it, which frustrates me a LOT.

I still do these tests though. For example, I'm currently on a healthy eating kick, but I don't want to tell T because I want to see if he notices me lose weight.

[tinyrabbit]

Originally Posted by QuietCat

For example, I'm currently on a healthy eating kick, but I don't want to tell T because I want to see if he notices me lose weight.

I wouldn't expect a T to comment on weight loss unless they knew you really well and knew it was ok to mention it. And it's one of those things where different clients have wildly different expectations so the T is doomed to get it wrong sometimes.

I would be furious and hurt if my T commented on my body or physical appearance. You're expecting your T to do something very risky - so I'm afraid it's just not wise.

[~EnlightenMe~]

I have been thinking about this topic since last session, and I just read your post. I did what some may call testing T, but I don't think I am testing him. It took me a long time thinking about it until I finally figured it out yesterday. I think I am looking subconsciously for him to act in a different way than my persecutory part acts with my inner self (it has now become conscious). The problem is, I set it up in a way where T is the least likely to believe what I am saying to him, but where what I desperately need is for him to believe me. I set it up this was because my inner experience is that I don't believe anything I say, think, or feel; or if I do, I am afraid of what I might think. So, I need a model for this part of me to follow; I need T to believe me so I can. That is how it feels, anyway.

I would give my therapist a warning that I was coming in cranky, mixed up, etc. I just didn't know why. She tolerated what I call my abuse of her, and yet worked with me to get an understanding of what's going on with me, and get me to feel and tolerate the feelings. She never took it personally. I'm more attuned to myself and life is much more enjoyable. Also, I can just - be - now.

[feralkittymom]

I'm not sure where 'testing' and unrealistic expectations meet, but I suspect they intersect somewhere in some cases.

I think this is key, and may be one of the most important aspects of the T relationship and experience. If we never experience this gap in practice, how would we ever learn from it about ourselves?

IRL, relationships tend to try to smooth over or ignore these gaps in the interests of harmony. But therapy allows for, and encourages, these gaps to exist so as to bring the thoughts and feelings underlaying them to our attention. It's why ruptures can be healing. And why when ruptures aren't healed, it's a break in the therapy frame that often can't be surmounted.