As some of you know, I see a T who takes longish summer vacations, and am in the middle of his holiday now. He has told me to contact him on his mobile phone if I really need to - if I feel really desperately bad, or suicidal. I don't intend to contact him, of course. What could he do? In the weeks before his holiday started, I started talking a bit about my sui thoughts. I felt more comfortable doing that when I knew that he would not suggest medication - he is also a psychiatrist, so he can prescribe meds for me. I am not in any way anti-meds, and I know that many people are helped by them, but for personal, practical reasons I don't want to go on medication now.

I'm not going to top myself, that is not an option. I do, however, think a lot about dying. My T creates an environment that is very open, I know that anything verbal is allowed, and I have been able to verbalise my thoughts more than I thought possible. T encourages me to talk about what I am thinking (and I am not always able to do so, but it happens more and more, and gradually with greater ease) but he also challenges my thinking. All well and good, and very very hard, but that's therapy.

Now T is away, for five more weeks. It's been three weeks since I saw him. He said, in one of our last sessions, that since he 1) makes me confront all these difficult subjects and encourages me to dig up a lot of thoughts that I have kept hidden away, and 2) takes these rather long vacations, it is his [expletive deleted] responsibility to make sure that I have a way to contact him if need be. (That's a quote, pretty much, of what he said.)

And now I have rather strong sui thoughts. Still not going to do it, it's still not an option, but the thoughts are there all the time. Right now I don't really see any alternative, down the road. (I know that does not logically tally with it not being an option....) But I am not suicidal as such, and so I have no justification for contacting T. This is material for therapy, not for a crisis contact.

I just don't know what to do, how to cope during these remaining weeks. (Please don't suggest physical exercise, because that is not something that is helpful for me - I am old enough to know that for certain. I do know that it helps many other people.) I can't exactly ask for support from friends, not with this kind of issue. There's really only one person I could ask for support anyway, and he is out of the country right now.

This post is mostly just venting, and getting this out there. Thank you for reading this far.

[tinyrabbit]

I'm really sorry you're struggling right now. I think it's great that your T recognises the need, and reason, for you to potentially contact him.

You ask what he could do anyway. Well, maybe it would help just to have some kind of tangible reminder that he's there for you, and he's coming back. If you speak to him briefly, it could help sustain you and would send a message to your unconscious mind that you don't have to deal with everything on your own.

I think you're seeing things in rather black and white terms: you say you're not going to try to sui, so you shouldn't need your T. I say there's a grey area in the middle where you feel desperately bad and need to talk to him. I think you would absolutely be justified in calling him, and I think you should go ahead and do so. Just hearing his voice could help.

Other suggestions for how to cope the rest of the time: I wonder if counting down the days somehow could help, e.g. crossing them off on a calendar? That way you can see them going down and your next appointment getting closer.

Also, does journalling help you at all? Personally, I find distraction is ultimately what gets me through breaks from T - I read a lot of free book samples on my Kindle and play a lot of Sudoku.

[Bill3]

I don't intend to contact him, of course. What could he do?

*

it is his [expletive deleted] responsibility to make sure that I have a way to contact him if need be.

I'm sorry that things are rough right now. It is a long break.

I agree with tinyrabbit.

Talking to someone trusted and experienced in listening can be really helpful.

Also, I think T believes that talking to him can be helpful to you. I suppose that is a main reason that he made it possible for you to call: he believes that he can help, and he wants to.

[kaliope]

I agree with rabbit and bill. Just a short conversation would be all it takes. U dont even have to tell him ur suicodal, just that ur struggling. On the othrr hand, when I wss in your place, I used to make bargains with myself to stay alive. Id tell myself its ok to kill myself two weeks from now if I was still that miserable so then I could stop thinking about it. When the two weeks was up, I would make a new plan. Hang in there.....I fought the idea of meds for a long time and I finally compromised because I knew I wad going to be dead. They worked like magic. I only took antidepressants for two years and havent needed them since. They are worth thinking about.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

[unaluna]

I was like that too - what can anyone possibly do or say to help? I think we learn to say that to ourselves AFTER we figure out no one is coming, cuz how else can we survive? Maybe that's what distinguishes the different survivor styles. It means doing a 180 degree turn to even think someone can help. Or maybe a quarter turn, like in a microwave oven. I think this is my t's biggest obstacle with me.

[FeelTheBurn]

Well, I can't improve on what has been said, only echo it. Even a few minutes of his voice could be a potent reminder that you won't be on your own forever, and that you are cared about. Knowing that, if you're bonded with your T, that little bit of contact can really put calm in your heart when nothing else can. And can you imagine reporting to him when he returns, "Yeah, I was dead miserable, at the end of my rope, but no, even though you said I should, I didn't call you because I'm not worth it." Imagine the side-eye your T would give you at that! Get out of your own way, and reach out for some healing.

And, if you do talk to your T, maybe he could recommend a respected colleague for you to use as a sounding board in the meantime, if the pressure gets to be too much. Not for therapy per se, but just as a sympathetic ear. Doesn't mean you'd have to use it, but it might be helpful at crunch time.

And, for the teeny tiny bit that it may be worth, you have much value to me, Mastodon, and I would wager I'm not alone here. A portion of those 772 hugs you've given have been given to me, and I have appreciated every one of them. So, on behalf of the other hug-ees, this one's for you:

[stopdog]

If you think hearing the therapist would help and the therapist said to call, then why not at least try giving yourself a shot at it? I mean, it seems you want to have some contact with him and he has offered. I would think it might be useful to try it before rejecting it.

[feralkittymom]

Apt

There's another way to think about this. You may be doing your T a huge favor by calling.

I was always loathe to call outside of sessions. After toughing out a serious situation, I told my T what had happened. He told me that I needed to call him for his benefit, if not for my own. That the nature of his work was to think about his clients outside the hour. That the biggest stress was learning to make that thinking productive, rather than stressful. That, at times, such stress couldn't be eliminated, but it could be managed. And one of the ways to manage it was to get the client to the place where they would reach out as needed. That knowing the client would reach out relieved him of the need to be concerned.

And you are so worth it. Maybe you can't believe it, but don't forget it.

[tinyrabbit]

Superb post from feralkittymom.

Wow. Thank you, all, so much.

Originally Posted by tinyrabbit

I'm really sorry you're struggling right now. I think it's great that your T recognises the need, and reason, for you to potentially contact him.

You ask what he could do anyway. Well, maybe it would help just to have some kind of tangible reminder that he's there for you, and he's coming back. If you speak to him briefly, it could help sustain you and would send a message to your unconscious mind that you don't have to deal with everything on your own.

I think you're seeing things in rather black and white terms: you say you're not going to try to sui, so you shouldn't need your T. I say there's a grey area in the middle where you feel desperately bad and need to talk to him. I think you would absolutely be justified in calling him, and I think you should go ahead and do so. Just hearing his voice could help.

As always you're being really helpful, tinyrabbit - I always appreciate your postings. I can see that what you say here makes a lot of sense - if it were about somebody ense I would nod enthusiastically and go "hear, hear!". It would help to hear his voice. But I don't like to acknowledge that need to him, even though he has already pretty much said that he understands it.

Then there is the question of what T is busy doing as I call, what I will be interrupting, who else is with him, and all that. For all I know he's not even in the country. But maybe I could txt him.

Originally Posted by tinyrabbit

Other suggestions for how to cope the rest of the time: I wonder if counting down the days somehow could help, e.g. crossing them off on a calendar? That way you can see them going down and your next appointment getting closer.

Also, does journalling help you at all? Personally, I find distraction is ultimately what gets me through breaks from T - I read a lot of free book samples on my Kindle and play a lot of Sudoku.

I keep a countdown calendar on timeanddate.com - I count the days and also the hours (which sounds a bit desperate, but it is encouraging to see how quickly the hours go down.)

As for keeping busy, I try to do that. Journalling helps, but I haven't done it, much. Maybe I will make an effort to write some more - I might even write down things addressed to T. I read a lot, and when I am too miserable to focus on printed text I listen to audiobooks. I have also learnt a new craft (bookbinding) this summer, and am keeping myself busy with that as much as I can.

Originally Posted by Bill3

I'm sorry that things are rough right now. It is a long break.

I agree with tinyrabbit.

Talking to someone trusted and experienced in listening can be really helpful.

Also, I think T believes that talking to him can be helpful to you. I suppose that is a main reason that he made it possible for you to call: he believes that he can help, and he wants to.

Thanks, Bill. I appreciate your support and advice, as ever.

The problem is, too, that I don't know exactly what I would say. I would end up umming and erring a lot and trying to convince T that I'm actually doing really well. And feeling totally ashamed afterwards.

Originally Posted by kaliope

I agree with rabbit and bill. Just a short conversation would be all it takes. U dont even have to tell him ur suicodal, just that ur struggling. On the othrr hand, when I wss in your place, I used to make bargains with myself to stay alive. Id tell myself its ok to kill myself two weeks from now if I was still that miserable so then I could stop thinking about it. When the two weeks was up, I would make a new plan. Hang in there.....I fought the idea of meds for a long time and I finally compromised because I knew I wad going to be dead. They worked like magic. I only took antidepressants for two years and havent needed them since. They are worth thinking about.

Thanks, kaliope. I appreciate your weighing in here. The bargain thing is a really good idea - I might try thinking like that. I do the same thing on a smaller scale sometimes when I am stressed out and can't sleep at night: I take each stressor and tell myself that I will think about that thing at 10am the next day, or whenever. So I know that can help.

And yes, I know meds can be helpful. I have tried four different kinds (two of them in combination) and I know that my T would like for me to try another type which he thinks might help me. It's just that there are practical reasons why it's difficult for me to go on medication. Anyway, maybe the subject will come up in August when I start seeing T again.

Originally Posted by hankster

I was like that too - what can anyone possibly do or say to help? I think we learn to say that to ourselves AFTER we figure out no one is coming, cuz how else can we survive? Maybe that's what distinguishes the different survivor styles. It means doing a 180 degree turn to even think someone can help. Or maybe a quarter turn, like in a microwave oven. I think this is my t's biggest obstacle with me.

Spot on, hankster - that is it. But I have this weird hangup where I discourage people from helping me even when I realise that they want to, because I don't want them to worry. I mean, I have been known to lie to my GP and say I'm feeling better when I wasn't, for crying out loud.

Originally Posted by FeelTheBurn

Well, I can't improve on what has been said, only echo it. Even a few minutes of his voice could be a potent reminder that you won't be on your own forever, and that you are cared about. Knowing that, if you're bonded with your T, that little bit of contact can really put calm in your heart when nothing else can. And can you imagine reporting to him when he returns, "Yeah, I was dead miserable, at the end of my rope, but no, even though you said I should, I didn't call you because I'm not worth it." Imagine the side-eye your T would give you at that! Get out of your own way, and reach out for some healing.

And, if you do talk to your T, maybe he could recommend a respected colleague for you to use as a sounding board in the meantime, if the pressure gets to be too much. Not for therapy per se, but just as a sympathetic ear. Doesn't mean you'd have to use it, but it might be helpful at crunch time.

And, for the teeny tiny bit that it may be worth, you have much value to me, Mastodon, and I would wager I'm not alone here. A portion of those 772 hugs you've given have been given to me, and I have appreciated every one of them. So, on behalf of the other hug-ees, this one's for you:

That is worth a lot, FTB. Thank you so much. And, good grief, he would give me not so much a side-eye as a stare over the rim of his glasses... which means that yeah, he probably would prefer it if I contacted him.

I struggle a lot with whether T actually cares about me or not. I keep saying that I am convinced he doesn't, but deep down I hope that he does, a little. And if he does, he won't mind that I contact him. But if he doesn't? Gah.

Originally Posted by stopdog

If you think hearing the therapist would help and the therapist said to call, then why not at least try giving yourself a shot at it? I mean, it seems you want to have some contact with him and he has offered. I would think it might be useful to try it before rejecting it.

I do think it would help, and he did. I suppose it's pretty unreasonable to set up all these barriers to contacting him. (Well, there is one barrier, which is that I need to find some uninterrupted time to do so, which is hard when H is on holiday, because I get very little alone time. But that's not an unsurmountable problem, it's just another barrier I set up.)

Originally Posted by feralkittymom

Apt

There's another way to think about this. You may be doing your T a huge favor by calling.

I was always loathe to call outside of sessions. After toughing out a serious situation, I told my T what had happened. He told me that I needed to call him for his benefit, if not for my own. That the nature of his work was to think about his clients outside the hour. That the biggest stress was learning to make that thinking productive, rather than stressful. That, at times, such stress couldn't be eliminated, but it could be managed. And one of the ways to manage it was to get the client to the place where they would reach out as needed. That knowing the client would reach out relieved him of the need to be concerned.

And you are so worth it. Maybe you can't believe it, but don't forget it.

Thank you, feralkittymom. This made me almost tear up. And it makes sense that a T who is concerned about a client would like to know that that client would in fact let him know if she was desperate. But then I'm back to the question of "does he actually care"... and also, yeah, I can't quite believe what you said there at the end.

Again, thank you to all who answered. You have given me much to consider, in a good way.

[Bill3]

The problem is, too, that I don't know exactly what I would say. I would end up umming and erring a lot and trying to convince T that I'm actually doing really well. And feeling totally ashamed afterwards.

What if you prepared a few "talking points" beforehand, and had them with you when you called? I am thinking just a few brief phrases to remind yourself what you want to say, and to help you be focused in the moment.

[unaluna]

Mast, thanks for letting us show the best parts of pc.

[tinyrabbit]

Sorry, I missed this before.

Originally Posted by Mastodon

Then there is the question of what T is busy doing as I call, what I will be interrupting, who else is with him, and all that. For all I know he's not even in the country.

You know, that's your T's problem, not yours. And I can tell you from personal experience that even just hearing your T's voicemail greeting can be a comfort.

[ThisWayOut]

((hugs))

I agree with tinyrabbit - sometimes just hearing the vm message can be a huge relief... I've called the office sometimes just to hear the vm...

Just an update on this. I am visiting friends at their summer house this week and am not getting any alone time so calling T is out of the question right now. I have written an honest account of my thoughts, stressing that I have no plans and that I do intend to be there for my next appt on Aug 20, and I mean to print that out and send to his office address by snail mail. He won't see it until he's back in the office I assume, though perhaps he does check his mailbox, I don't know. In any case it means that the thoughts will be out there.

Originally Posted by Mastodon

Just an update on this. I am visiting friends at their summer house this week and am not getting any alone time so calling T is out of the question right now. I have written an honest account of my thoughts, stressing that I have no plans and that I do intend to be there for my next appt on Aug 20, and I mean to print that out and send to his office address by snail mail. He won't see it until he's back in the office I assume, though perhaps he does check his mailbox, I don't know. In any case it means that the thoughts will be out there.

Hey Mastodon,
I haven't been around much lately and missed this thread. Eeek, you are struggling so much with these thoughts These are not the kind of thoughts you can talk to people about either which is why I think we need to talk to our ts about them because the more we keep these thought in our head and don't let them out or give them a voice the louder they will get inside our heads.
I am wondering if email is a possibilty, I hear you saying you don't want to bother t as he is on vacation and might be busy, and email is great cos t will read it when he is ready and reply if he chooses at his own pace too. I think you do need to let t know about them because the are getting stronger and although you feel ok now and feel stable and that you won't act on these urges but you can't say how you will feel next week, August is a long way away.
I am glad to hear you will be spending time with friends next week and hopefully your feelings will change and you will have some fun and take your mind away from these difficult thoughts. Sometimes just writing them down takes away their power and hold over us and clears our head.

Thank you for your long and thoughtful reply, monalisasmile. I am typing this on a phone with patchy Internet connection so can't write a very good reply I'm afraid. Email would be a better medium, I agree, but unfortunately I don't have T's email address. A friend of mine has emailed with him in the past and so has his address but T hasn't given it to me.

[granite1]

doubt any of what i could say would be all that helpfull to you mast but i wqanted you to know that i am reading and care very much about you and hope things might be a bit better visiting with your friends. you T is away for so long .it has to be hard

It means so much to me to hear that, granite. Thank you.

[Sabra]

Originally Posted by Mastodon

I mean to print that out and send to his office address by snail mail. He won't see it until he's back in the office I assume, though perhaps he does check his mailbox, I don't know. In any case it means that the thoughts will be out there.

Good morning,

I completely understand "the thoughts will be out there." One of most helpful skills my therapist taught me was the idea that she would "hold" the difficult feelings until we saw each other again. She used hypnosis as a tool to help me establish a container for the difficult feelings. I didn't need to hold onto them. She was in charge of the container and when we would process the feelings. It was amazing how well it worked.

Sabra

[Onyx999]

Originally Posted by Mastodon

As some of you know, I see a T who takes longish summer vacations, and am in the middle of his holiday now. He has told me to contact him on his mobile phone if I really need to - if I feel really desperately bad, or suicidal. I don't intend to contact him, of course. What could he do? In the weeks before his holiday started, I started talking a bit about my sui thoughts. I felt more comfortable doing that when I knew that he would not suggest medication - he is also a psychiatrist, so he can prescribe meds for me. I am not in any way anti-meds, and I know that many people are helped by them, but for personal, practical reasons I don't want to go on medication now.

I'm not going to top myself, that is not an option. I do, however, think a lot about dying. My T creates an environment that is very open, I know that anything verbal is allowed, and I have been able to verbalise my thoughts more than I thought possible. T encourages me to talk about what I am thinking (and I am not always able to do so, but it happens more and more, and gradually with greater ease) but he also challenges my thinking. All well and good, and very very hard, but that's therapy.

Now T is away, for five more weeks. It's been three weeks since I saw him. He said, in one of our last sessions, that since he 1) makes me confront all these difficult subjects and encourages me to dig up a lot of thoughts that I have kept hidden away, and 2) takes these rather long vacations, it is his [expletive deleted] responsibility to make sure that I have a way to contact him if need be. (That's a quote, pretty much, of what he said.)

And now I have rather strong sui thoughts. Still not going to do it, it's still not an option, but the thoughts are there all the time. Right now I don't really see any alternative, down the road. (I know that does not logically tally with it not being an option....) But I am not suicidal as such, and so I have no justification for contacting T. This is material for therapy, not for a crisis contact.

I just don't know what to do, how to cope during these remaining weeks. (Please don't suggest physical exercise, because that is not something that is helpful for me - I am old enough to know that for certain. I do know that it helps many other people.) I can't exactly ask for support from friends, not with this kind of issue. There's really only one person I could ask for support anyway, and he is out of the country right now.

This post is mostly just venting, and getting this out there. Thank you for reading this far.

[Onyx999]

Hey there. I'm so sorry you're feeling like this. Can you elaborate on why meds are not an option for you right now. Cos honestly, they saved my life...twice now in the last 10 years. And I'm a fervent believer in exercise as an add-on to treatments and in general for maintaining good health.

Have you tried adding juicing to your regular diets at all. I have friends who swear they feel mentally and physically much better after starting to juice. I know I sound like a hippy, but I'm not, I swear. If you're in the UK, I know the English love to garden. Start gardening. You can grow your own fruits and veggies to juice and it will give you another hobby.

Just trying to help. Hang in there.

Hmm. Juicing - as in turning things into juice? That's an awesome verb which I've never heard before. We got a new juice press about six months ago and since then I drink a lot more orange and grapefruit juice, almost every day. I'm afraid the only difference has been a more acidic stomach, but it is totally worth it.

I live in Sweden, and don't grow anything that's conducive to being turned into juice in my garden, but I'll look into the possible health effects. Thanks!

As for meds, long and boring story: I've tried four different kinds in the past, and the one combo that worked to some extent made me throw up, so my pdoc/T recommended thst I discontinue it. I know that he would like me to try a different kind. I believe that if my life was different it might very well help with what ails me. But I think it would complicate my life too much and so I am reluctant to do that. Maybe I will, in the end. As I said, I do believe in medicine, I just need to find a way around the complications, if there is such a way.

Thanks for your reply!!

I've changed my mind. T doesn't want to hear from me and I am not in such an immediate crisis that I can justify writing to him. I mean, on some level I would be hoping that he'd read the letter before August 20 and get back to me. It's just a month to go now.