[ajmich]

2½ years with counselor (not a shrink; MA, LPC, NCC)... first and only person who really clicked with me after decades of this. Came to totally trust and believe in her -- rare and amazing. Then things went ugly in January, with return of major depression (all of this year so far). Meds stopped working, so I quit them (Viibryd), and it's been downhill. BTW the detox from that stuff is wicked nasty, even with a reasonable taper down period. AVOID.

OK so alternate therapies got a lot of discussion (ECT, rTMS) for months, but I've been unable to decide what/ where/ how. No such services around my small town, so this is presenting as a big ordeal, requires staying in a remote city for weeks during treatment, etc. Logistics, expense, can't wrap my head around it, just too depressed to work it out, to decide a course of ACTION.

So, I finally asked her last week IF she could make the decision for me, and set up the treatment. She agreed, said this is no problem, reminded me of her familiarity with a certain healthcare organization and city she had experience with, and said I'd get an email from her with the details. Again, I have been desperate, increasing intense suicidal thoughts/plans, and made that clear to her. Right up to last session. Hard as it still can be to bring that stuff out, I stated it clearly, that I've been scared by this ****.

In a nutshell she replied with a link to a shrink she doesn't know, who does ECT in a city she doesn't know and is quite far away, ignoring or forgetting the fact that we had discussed and had been leaning towards rTMS in a city and hospital she knew very well -- IE, a completely different scenario. I'd told her many times I'm afraid of the possible permanent memory loss from ECT and prefer rTMS even though my insurance does not yet cover it.

Well, I questioned the choice of an ECT shrink, she said "oops, sorry, I goofed up"... and it hit me hard that she hadn't taken this seriously or didn't write anything down, or something unlike her. Blew away my confidence in her, the trust we had built. I know the disease is in play in this, yet it felt so plainly WRONG for her to act this way. Not right now, not with this.

So, after a few beats, I said I'm done with our working together, and that's that. She questioned why, I painfully explained, and it's done. I can't emphasize enough that I'd been very straight with her about the deepening pit and dark thoughts, though I've never made an attempt and maybe gave the impression that it wasn't a valid option. She later said she must have chosen not to see that in me. Wow. I'm still shocked.

So, time for a new chapter, but I don't know about any of this anymore. I know I'm done with meds, been too many for too long that haven't worked or barely worked. Sorry for rambling on, I just wondered if anyone has had a similar falling out with their counselor/therapist after so much time invested.

I guess I'm not understanding why you didn't allow her to fix her errors so you could get the treatment you desired. Sounds like she was willing to do so. I mean, I hear you are angry, but it seems you are only hurting yourself here. Of course, you can do the research to find a doctor, etc. yourself, but you sounded like having her help facilitate the process would be better. Yes, she messed up, but it doesn't seem like it is an insurmountable error, not technically anyway. Do you really want your anger at her to get in the way of finding treatment? Your emotions seem to be running the show here at a time when you need your head to allow the therapist to help you out. At least get the names/ numbers from her so you can maybe make contact yourself or allow a friend, family member, or other professional to assist you with this.

[Favorite Jeans]

I'm so sorry that this is happening to you. I have also experienced some disconnect with my t over mental illness although not exactly the way you're describing. The part that is similar is her at times not seeming to see or believe the intensity of my despair or specifically the agony of a mixed episode. I wonder if it's because her training isn't medical and she doesn't think in diagnostic terms. I generally appreciate this so much about her but it really feels like she just doesn't get it sometimes even though I try to tell her as clearly as I can and even tell her that I think she isn't seeing me. I think this might be because I present well, I work hard not freak people out, I need her to like me and worry that she won't if I don't keep it together when I'm with her. We've talked about those things and I think she wants to assure me that I'm not as bad as I think whereas I need her to see how bad I feel.

That's a big, big disconnect that you're describing and I see why you feel like seeing her is no longer an option. One thing that stands out for me in your account is "she hadn't taken it seriously (...) or something unlike her." If she has been good for you all this time and this really seems unlike her maybe it's something you can work through? Especially if she really apologizes and tells you more about how it came to be that she made this awful mistake.

Another thing that stands out for me is that you seem to have made your decision with respect to the type of treatment you'd like to pursue next (rTMS in a city and hospital she knows very well) despite saying earlier that you were unable to reach a decision. Kind of like when you flip a coin to make what seems like a hard decision and before you check if you got heads or tails you quickly realize what you hope it is. Go ahead with that decision. It probably isn't a perfect option but I bet you're leaning toward it for very good reasons.

Good luck with this! Please keep us posted.

[CantExplain]

Ts are human and sooner of later they screw up.
It's up to you to decide whether or not this is a deal-breaker.

I've forgiven my T for a lot of things but in the end she screwed up once too often.

PS:
I once wrote that I could forgive things in friend or family that I could not forgive in someone I'm paying $140 a session. Other posters did not agree.

[Raging Quiet]

Originally Posted by ajmich

Well, I questioned the choice of an ECT shrink, she said "oops, sorry, I goofed up"... and

I echo Can'tExplain's post. My therapist (I've known 5 years) has made mistakes and apologised in a similar fashion.

Could it have been that she wanted this person for you as she felt they would help, but hadn't consciously taken in the specifics before telling you?

You've spent a lot of years with this counsellor and you've obviously been through a difficult time.I really think you should question your counsellor and speak about this more before throwing everything away

[unaluna]

Maybe you just reached the end of this person's ability to help you. For her to make such a simple mistake tells me she knows she cant give you what you two agreed on. That's why quitting her seemed like such an obvious solution. It was the end of the line. But two years of talking with an MA is hardly even the beginning of therapy.

Eta: sorry I see youve been in therapy for decades. So have I. Honestly I think its changed a lot recently. The 80's dont count!

[Benetduncan]

Originally Posted by Rect0pathic

I echo Can'tExplain's post. My therapist (I've known 5 years) has made mistakes and apologised in a similar fashion.

Could it have been that she wanted this person for you as she felt they would help, but hadn't consciously taken in the specifics before telling you?

You've spent a lot of years with this counsellor and you've obviously been through a difficult time.I really think you should question your counsellor and speak about this more before throwing everything away

!00% agree.

[dizgirl2011]

I an understand you are hurting and feel as though your T doesn't care, wasn't listening and doesnt take your pain seriously....however this may not be the case at all....although I can understand it very much feels that way.

Have you had a face to face chat with her about how you felt and heard her side of it? It sounded like you have only been emailing since, is that right? I think, even if its just an ending session, that it would be valuable, especially after over 2 years working together.

I know your hurting and I probably would be also, but as other people said, she made a mistake...maybe give her an opportunity to explain it? How has she been the other 2 years? It sounds like she was good to work with and has helped up until january and then when you stopped taking your meds things got worse for you, leading to where you are now.

It just may be worth taking a step back from wondering if ending with her is what you need or not. Who are you hurting here?

I think the fact she said she would make the decision for you shows that she is taking you seriously as most therapists wont do this and will letthe client decide for themselves but she maybe seen you struggling and decided to say yes in order to help you. I know she made a mistake in the link she sent you....perhaps she was meant to send that link to another client or she was distracted by something that day? We dont know, we aren't in her head and thats why it might be a good idea to give her a chance to talk with you about it?

As someone else remarked, maybe this can also show you that you atually do know what you want but you just wanted some support and encouragement?

I hope you make the right decision for yourself

[Perna]

I'm thankful I had a group T that explained well about relationships and how long we are in them and know the other person such that no one incident can have the equal weight of all the incidents that have gone before. She made a mistake, you were angry. That is not the entire relationship.

You have a problem; you need someone to help you get X services you'd like. That is still the problem. Problems are not necessarily solved easily, immediately, as clean and purely as we'd like. Now you have to find someone else to help and start all over from scratch. Hasty, angry actions paying attention to feelings only and not thinking also, rarely get us what we really want or need.

I would call and apologize, see if I could not work things out with T or, since you have a clue what you want next and where and with whom, etc. then I would set it up myself.

[blackpearl86]

I got mad at my therapist too. Was seeing her for over a year, we got on well. Then one day she snapped at me saying that I never listen to her, that we were always going round in circles. I thought there was something wrong with me, that even my shrink gave up on me. I got mad and walked out of the hospital. Terrified of shrinks ever since.

[boredporcupine]

All I can say about this is that severe depression has very high stakes, and that within that context, even very good counselors can make terrible mistakes. Ever had an off day where you felt like you kept making incredibly stupid mistakes or bad decisions? Ever had a moment where you said or didn't say something and regretted it? Now imagine that every day of your job, if you had a day like that, or made a bad decision, someone's life could be in the balance. Imagine how badly you would want a chance to apologize and do what you could to repair your mistake. There is a TON of vulnerability on both sides in therapy, not just one or the other.

I can't tell you what to do, but if it would be helpful, I think it makes sense to at least go back and ask for the kind of referral you actually want. And I am so sorry she let you down in this way. I know it must feel unbearable.

[ajmich]

Thanks everyone, geez, sure wasn't expecting so many replies, so rapidly. Am allowing all of your comments to sink in, see if this sorts out soon. What rings most true for me is hankster, "Maybe you just reached the end of this person's ability to help you." I believe that sums it up. There have been other letdowns but this last one tripped a wire. Yes, a T is only human, is going to make mistakes, but when you've poured out your soul to the person and revealed every vulnerability, its a helluva time to screw up. "Start over"? Not gonna happen. "Get contacts"? Already have them, from my own research months ago. It was the DECIDING I haven't been able to do, not the ground work, because in deep ***** it's very hard to imagine going solo to a strange town, booking a hotel/motel for weeks, while having a therapy that looks good on paper but is really just a desperate move. There is no one else to help with any of this... another fact putting perhaps too much pressure on my counselor. But that's the time for her to admit, if need be, "Cannot do that"... not fumble along off target and then be almost glib about it. I'm aware the disease is coloring my reactions, but even allowing for that, it comes down to confidence in her abilities, the TRUST factor. Of course I have considered how this hurts me! I'm not blinded by anger. But how much more can it hurt to have someone in that position not take you seriously enough when you need exactly that, the very most?

[ajmich]

Originally Posted by Perna

I would call and apologize, see if I could not work things out with T or, since you have a clue what you want next and where and with whom, etc. then I would set it up myself.

What exactly would I apologize for? Quitting therapy? Reacting with emotions instead of my head? Tossing the baby w/bathwater? No, there is a disconnect involved that has shown itself on other occasions. IMHO if a counselor reaches a burnout stage (or whatever might be the case) it is up to them to be aware of this and to take whatever steps they might need to regroup, refresh... NOT continue advising a vulnerable clientele as if there were nothing wrong. Self awareness to the extreme, seems a prerequisite, but then likely I just expect too much.

What I was/am seeking with my post is similar experiences IE how have you been let down by someone in this position, when you were least able to deal? Kinda like, tell me this happens so it doesn't push paranoia buttons like she was trying to get rid of me, or "forcing" me to make the decision by acting this way... making me mad enough to force a change...? make any sense?

[stopdog]

I quit all the time and have never apologized. I don't think there is anything to apologize for. The therapist has let me down to the extent I believed what she said. Now I simply do not believe the content of what she says and I don't have to worry about it. I do not think the therapist was, in my case, trying to get rid of me, that would be easier done in a more direct fashion.

[Syra]

Originally Posted by ajmich

So, time for a new chapter, but I don't know about any of this anymore. I know I'm done with meds, been too many for too long that haven't worked or barely worked. Sorry for rambling on, I just wondered if anyone has had a similar falling out with their counselor/therapist after so much time invested.

I have. After 2-1/2 years of very successful therapy, she jsut seemed to change. I thought she was WONDERFUL. I was so distraught when it was all happening. It's all so complicated.
I wonder if something Freudian is going on wtih her - not that justifies anything.

[Syra]

Originally Posted by ajmich

What exactly would I apologize for? Quitting therapy? Reacting with emotions instead of my head? Tossing the baby w/bathwater? No, there is a disconnect involved that has shown itself on other occasions. IMHO if a counselor reaches a burnout stage (or whatever might be the case) it is up to them to be aware of this and to take whatever steps they might need to regroup, refresh... NOT continue advising a vulnerable clientele as if there were nothing wrong. Self awareness to the extreme, seems a prerequisite, but then likely I just expect too much.

I agree with you. And I think my T would too. I went over with the newT what he would do if he was reaching the end of his rope with me - becuase I was scared because of the last T. He said it was up to him to figure what what was triggering him, get necessary supervision, and work very very hard to get back on path - and if he couldn't - termination would not be quick and brutal.

[ajmich]

Syra, thank you, sounds like very similar situation. Yeah, I'm distraught (still) and it does feel complicated. I don't know about a Freud aspect but don't rule anything out. I miss sessions and am too messed up right now to locate a new T. Feel like this mess needs cleanup but haven't a clue. Her 'sendoff' (via email, as I had ended sessions) was on the cold side... seems like some other person. I think I may have been seeking a friend in her and I brought up such things before but they seemed to be poo-poohed or unimportant.

Very interesting that you questioned your new T, you get major points for looking out for yourself! Hope it works out. I forgot to stop by here for a week or so, sorry for delay.

[ECHOES]

Maybe there is something to learn about you in this. That when you are hurt, you ...
It seems like you are feeling hurt and uncared for, and that you are running away from those feelings.

I'll bet that, aside from this one incident, there have been a zillion things your T has done "right"

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by ECHOES

I'll bet that, aside from this one incident, there have been a zillion things your T has done "right"

Why would this logically follow?
It is not my experience with those people.

[ECHOES]

Originally Posted by ECHOES

I'll bet that, aside from this one incident, there have been a zillion things your T has done "right"

Originally Posted by stopdog

Why would this logically follow?
It is not my experience with those people.

stopdog, it doesn't follow.. it came before.

Originally Posted by ajmich

2½ years with counselor (not a shrink; MA, LPC, NCC)... first and only person who really clicked with me after decades of this. Came to totally trust and believe in her -- rare and amazing.

[Syra]

Originally Posted by ECHOES

...I'll bet that, aside from this one incident, there have been a zillion things your T has done "right"

I imagine the T has done good things, but I don't see how that excuses "wrong" behavior. I think I'm missing something. Are there some limits to how much good behavior is necessary to allow for some bad behavior?

Is there a time when it's "wrong" to be hurt? disappointed?

[0w6c379]

I'm in the midst of separating myself from T too. It is the worst feeling. I'm sorry you have to go through this. I thought my T was great too. I was sure of it! Now I think he was just playing me for a fool. Toying with my feelings for him. He, and others, probably had a good laugh over how much I cared for hm. Nice eh? He seems to have taken a 100 degree turn around in his attitude toward me. At one time he was kind, caring, compassionate. Now he has been cold, aloof, cocky...like he is untouchable. I went back several times to give him a chance to make things right, to fix his mistakes with me. Nothing. My T was too self-righteous to admit to any mistakes!! I kept believing he would do the right thing by me so I kept going back...hoping... but it never happened. I can't trust anyone again. No clue on what I will do. Maybe you will be able to trust someone else, unlike me. This is such a bad feeling to have been let down by someone you felt so very close to. I thought my T understood me and turns out I was wrong again. I had made another bad decision in my life. I was wrong to trust him and wrong to believe in him. I don't feel I am a good judge of character anymore...I'm finding too many phony people are out there...my T cinches the case against me. I hope things work out better for you.

[stopdog]

I do not have experience with therapists as doing things right. They may do their jobs and they sometimes may not be incompetent, but I don't see that as doing anything right. I think sometimes people give therapists too much benefit of the doubt simply because they are not actively being treated badly.
But it is none of my business if someone wants to believe their therapist has done a zillion things correctly.

[Bill3]

I do not have experience with therapists as doing things right. They may do their jobs and they sometimes may not be incompetent, but I don't see that as doing anything right.

What would be doing things right?

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by Syra

I imagine the T has done good things, but I don't see how that excuses "wrong" behavior. I think I'm missing something. Are there some limits to how much good behavior is necessary to allow for some bad behavior?

Is there a time when it's "wrong" to be hurt? disappointed?

This brings us to the key question: Is a T allowed to make mistakes?

New thread!