[Rapunzel]

Okay, I recognized a while ago that I am distorting a lot (remember the distorted perceptions thread), and that the list of Common Cognitive Distortions from David Burns was applicable. If I bother to pay attention to it, I can label my distortions. But that doesn't seem to be good enough. T expects me to confront them and do something about them too. The Feeling Good Handbook is over 700 pages long, and most of it is application, not just identifying and labeling.

Another realization is that most people engage in these distortions. So, maybe we can learn from each other. I have a bunch of distortions that I'm supposed to do something with for homework, and I'll start posting them here. Anyone want to help me?

If you have any of your own, bring them on and we can help with those too and see if we can all learn from each other.

Ready, set, go!

[wisewoman]

I am a mind reader and I just know when people are thinking bad things of me. Is that number 5? Well, I am doing two things. What does it matter even if it's true, and what has the rest of that person's behavior shown me?

[lenjan]

Oh, Rap, I have them ALL, honey. In spades. Maybe I can pick one a month to work on?

Candy

[Rapunzel]

I can add a bit to yours. How much time do you spend thinking bad things about people? My guess is not much. Most people are probably like you, too busy worrying about what you think of them than thinking bad things about you. What do you think? And your arguments are good too. How does this thought affect you, and does it help to confront it?

Sorry that I haven't gotten any of mine posted yet. I've been pretty busy this afternoon. And I'm avoiding my homework from T. That's a large part of why I posted this thread - to get myself to stop avoiding. I do have the cognitive distortions list printed out. It fits neatly on one page if you just copy the text from the post and paste that into a Word document. It helps to have a printed copy to refer to.

[Rapunzel]

Just pick one specific thought at a time to address. When you are satisfied with that one, you can start on one more.

I have pages worth, and I thought I addressed some of them, but T rejected the whole thing. But then I had kinda dismissed the whole assignment with "I don't want to say any more about these. They are all the same junk. I just disort everything to prove my own worthlessness." She didn't go for that.

[wisewoman]

I worry the doc's won't believe me, that they will think I am faking and then I read their minds and know that is what is happening. My solution to this recently has been to tell them I have an abuse history where I was told I was making up illness and beaten for showing feelings of illness, pain etc. Poker face was what I learned. I tell them so I can prevent te assumption on MY part that they feel I am attention seeking and lying.

I don't think bad things of others that often. however,from time to time I do engage in some entertaining thoughts of retaliation which I would never carry out. It's fun though to imagine the pranks.

I did put horse manure in an old abusive T's mail box once. But in my defense, she really was clueless and abusive.

[MyBestKids2]

I will have to go with disqualifying the positive. I currently feel incapable of being a Mom to my kids. My T tells me everyweek that when I feet better, I will go back to being a great mom.
I always respond "But that doesn't help then now. I was never a good Mom".

[Rapunzel]

Okay, here's my first one:

I was feeling like nobody is going to miss me when I move. The specific situation was that I went to lunch with someone I worked with last year as a speech therapy assistant, and we invited along the girl I was training for my other job at the preschool. I kept telling everyone that they won't miss me when I leave. I am scared that I'm not important and haven't made that much difference, so basically it means that I'm not worth anything.

This is how I addressed it:

When I kept saying that nobody was even going to miss me, I made the assumption that I could tell what other people were thinking. Since I was pretty impressed with K, and she was taking the job a step further than I had done, and had so much enthusiasm, and everyone seemed to like her, I felt left out and in the way and figured that I didn't matter to anyone. But it wasn't their feelings really - it was mine. I am the one that I don't matter to. BTW, K doesn't seem to be taking my job afterall now, so it's back to the drawing board there. Now I don't think they are going to be able to find anyone who will have the knowledge and skills that I would hope for who is willing to work for what they are offering for that job. But people do seem to be glad that I'm still there for now. It's awkward saying that I will be leaving, but not knowing when, and there are things I want to get involved with and don't dare to start because I won't be around to see it through (hopefully). People keep asking me to help with things and saying that they are glad I'm still around for this, that, and the other. There are things I can do that will be missed and probably won't be replaced.

[Rapunzel]

I can certainly relate to feeling like I haven't been and won't be a great mom. So, tell us more about the positive things that you do as a mom, okay?

I noticed right away that your screenname is all about caring for your kids, so there's an obvious sign of a good mom right there.

[Rapunzel]

Here's the continuation of that one. Did I address the distortions there, or can you see anything I might be missing?

I worry that I will be forgotten, and she will do a better job than i did, especially since she shows more initiative and is doing things that I wish that I had done, like being in the classrooms and getting to know the children who were referred, etc. (magnification & minimization; discounting the positive, & should statements).

Actually, I had wanted to be more involved with the children and families all along and kept being told to leave that to the teachers, because one of my predecessors had overstepped her bounds a lot and also because we had a manager who wasn't doing her job or sharing information, and the director was minimizing involvement by central office staff at all in order to keep her appeased, so I really couldn't do a lot of what K started doing although I laid a lot of the groundwork for it and also gave K some of the ideas, telling her what I wanted to have done and the directions we were going with more involvement.

[wisewoman]

sounds to me like you are valued and office politics are a pain. Can you say I am of value, I made a difference? We are all expendable. But we can leave the memories of us behind to those who need them.

[wisewoman]

I will add for myself here that no matter what I do I am always "in trouble" and reprimanded. Does anyone have that problem? It's a PTSD thing for me. It it a distortion?

[Rapunzel]

I just never feel like I am really of value. That's the point, I guess, and it's distortions that I use to keep maintaining that feeling of never really being of value.

I'm often afraid of being in trouble too, and of disapproval and rejection. Yes, I think there are distortions in there. All or nothing thinking because of the "always," but perhaps a bigger one is mind reading because being in trouble implies that you think you know what someone else thinks or feels. You said that you are reprimanded too. Care to elaborate on that? And if someone else did the same thing that you are doing, would they be in trouble? Would you feel like reprimanding them for it?

[wisewoman]

In trouble means unsafe, danger. Reprimand means the same, bad, unsafe, danger. Is this all or nothing? Yes and no. I can't really be life or death hurt by this sit so I can blow it off. At the same time it affects my feelings of security and those old PTSD tricks die hard. Time to be invisable, shut up and put on the poker face. Interesting question to pose. Blow it off? Have anger? Oh Oh, that was never allowed and not allowed in the sit I am referring to either. So, I will say I am angry and that I don't need to feel unsafe because I did nothing "wrong". I will also say that I try hard to live with love and compassion. So there, you caught me. it is not all or nothing. I do not have to act or feel about this as I am not in danger, just the PTSD poking around again. Thank you.

Rapunzel, I’ve just got a question about the ‘taking action’, once a distortion has been labelled / identified. I hope maybe you could help?

I’ll use a concrete example. Say someone views themselves negatively. Dunno, someone thinks they are worthless. Life & past experiences ‘confirmed’ this. So, first question. Since this is not a specific instance but an amalgamation of past or ongoing events, how do you address something general rather than the concrete examples mentioned in this thread (so as to be able to take action)? Sorry, I’m just trying to understand how the ‘taking action’ should proceed (general vs. specific issue).

Secondly, if you are now persuaded you are worthless etc., how do you counter this negative thinking if you don’t believe (and are not convinced) in the positive – e.g. “I am not a worthless waste of space”… Isn’t there a conflict between the subjective (the “I am worthless”) and objective (“I am not worthless”) parts. And believing the objective part, or making it subjective is the problem. How can one convince themselves of something if they don’t believe in? And if life events disprove this objective thinking?

Sorry, I am not sure if any of this makes sense or maybe I am way off tangent here…

[Rapunzel]

Always, that's pretty much the same thing that I am continually struggling with. I'm not sure about all of it, but I am glad you asked. I think that is the very stuff maybe that I am supposed to be figuring out, and I am a lot better at figuring it out for someone else than for myself. Does that make sense?

So, your life experiences have tended to confirm your belief that you are worthless? I'm not sure that there is a way to address that in generalities, unless you can identify thoughts that you have generalized from those experiences, for example "I feel worthless therefore I must be worthless," which would be emotional reasoning, or "If I am treated like I am worthless I must really be worthless." Worthless is a label in and of itself, so what we are doing is labeling as well as over-generalization - concluding that these events make up a never-ending pattern of defeat. Even if there is more than one incident, it still isn't all-encompassing. There is probably a lot of disqualifying the positive in there too. So I guess it might be possible to work with generalities, although I think it would work better to break it down and examine specific instances.

Countering the negative thinking and believing the positive and more objective is hard work. Being able to admit that the positive is objective sounds like a good start. Then maybe we could look for more positive examples, and see what we might be discounting (I know that's easier said than done). What do you think? I'm sorry I don't have the answers here. I'm still struggling with this too.

Rap

Post deleted by Rapunzel (by request of poster)

[dalila]

<font color="green"> I think that for me the biggest one is # 10. After years of being told I was responsible for everyone in our family I just moved on to feel responsible for the world’s woes. Ala ‘the butterfly effect,’ if I don’t do enough or I do something wrong then whatever bad happens next is my fault. I cannot see someone around in pain without feeling responsible for causing it and for relieving that pain.

I am working hard on recognizing my limitations – i.e. I am not capable of total world control and my boundaries – i.e. I am not responsible for the actions of others. I find it difficult to say I have done what I can and it is up to the other person now. That is a big goal for me to be able to say I am not responsible for the actions of others.
</font>

[biiv]

This thread is really relevant to me right now. thanks for starting it and mind if i join?

i was talking with T yesterday about why i get totally triggered whenever i have to think about doing up my cv (i forget what its called in the US... the list of qualifications you send off to apply for a job). whenever i look at what ive done and accomplished i cant make myself believe in it. like yes i got a degree but i didnt really earn it because i had x and y advantages and because i did badly in a and b areas so that makes me think when someone sees my cv they ll see all the stuff i havent done instead of what i have and if they do see what i have done on paper and consider hiring me i ll really be cheating them because im not actually able to do the job... is that distorted thinking?

my T suggested i combat this by trying out my cv on some friends first and i will but im not sure how that will help because they still wont know what a fluke it was i managed to get these bits of paper saying i can do things that i really cant.

does anyone have any ideas how i can convince myself i can actually do what im qualified to and should i really do that and then risk being given a job and failing utterly to do it? i feel so much like in the last couple of places i worked that, worse than not doing the job sufficiently well, i was actually a burden to everyone else because i had to ask them for help on stuff and how can they give their full attention to what they need to be doing if they have to worry that im not pulling my weight?

i hope this is on topic...

[Perna]

The problem with distortions and screwy thinking is that whatever we believe, is, for us, true! I sometimes use screwy thinking in the opposite direction to help me out

When I think someone I've just met in a group (or most/all the people in this new group) doesn't like me or will probably hurt me, I'm able to do the opposite and remind myself that nobody knows me yet (and likewise, me, them) so they can't possibly not like me enough to want to hurt me the way I fear. I haven't given them enough ammunition yet (besides my looks). I take it even further, and realize that if they have already decided they don't like me (perhaps because of my looks), then they are obviously the ones with the problem and since I don't know them well yet, I likewise don't "care" about them enough to care about what they think/feel. If they're ignorant enough to decide my being overweight or "ugly" by their standards matters, then I don't want to be around them anyway.

I have a funny looking logo I once put on a resume and sent out and my reasoning was that if people who got my resume weren't amused and wanting to get to know this quirky person (me) better then I didn't want to work for them! So, I used my resume to pre-screen the applicants fighting for the priviledge of having Me work for them.

[Rapunzel]

You are entirely welcome here. Anyone jump on in whenever you want. And, yes, what you are talking about is quite relevant. You even identified some of your negative thoughts that make you nervous.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
i didnt really earn it because i had x and y advantages and because i did badly in a and b areas

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Which cognitive distortion do you think this is, and how could you respond to it? (let us know if you need a hint)

Here's another one:

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
that makes me think when someone sees my cv they ll see all the stuff i havent done instead of what i have

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Maybe you could start small with trying some of the things on your cv - even if you ned to volunteer someplace to get the experience. Once you're using your skills you have more evidence to confront yourself with to prove you can do it. Showing your cv to your friends could be good too. They can give you feedback on your cv, and also general things like your honesty, dependability, etc.

[Rapunzel]

Perna, it sounds like you're already realizing that you have control over what you think, and taking charge of it. Thanks for sharing your strategies!

[Rapunzel]

Having realistic expectations is part of it too. Expectations of yourself and other people and the world. It can go both ways - expecting too much of yourself, or expecting things to happen the way you want them to. It can be a challenge to let go and realize the things that you don't have control over.

[biiv]

Thanks Rapunzel,

i guess these would be the discounting the positive and fortune telling distortions. i just found that list of distortions posted under this topic. its great. i think i have a lot of work to do on this stuff and it might really help.

with the discounting the positive distortion i should probably be focusing on the fact i actually did it regardless of what advantages i had or that i screwed up parts of it. at least i got here. maybe i have enough luck left to fluke my way through a job too! lol. sorry. its just really hard to be positive right now.

ok starting now im going to try pulling my self confidence up by its boot straps whether it likes it or not. even if i have to stamp hard enough on that voice in my head that i can ignore it long enough to try out some of these negative distortions and see if i cant disprove them. pretending im not a total failure for one afternoon wont kill me, right?

ok. here i go... aaaaaaaahhhhhhhh.

[Rapunzel]

Fake it 'til you make it, right? Since you can pull it off, that means you do have the abilities, and it's real.

Now why is it so much easier when it's someone else? I write pages and pages full of distortions and send it to T, and she's been sending it right back and telling me to address them all. It could be a fun excercise, except for that I actually believe all that garbage that I wrote, and trying to change it feels wrong somehow. Yeah, I stay caught in more distortions. That one would be emotional reasoning. Just because I feel something doesn't make it so. But why do I keep feeling it?

Thanks for sharing your examples. It helps not to be alone in this. I really hope we can keep this going and all learn from each other.

Rap