[Freewilled]

So what does that mean, exactly? I mean, I understand "doing the work" in the context of CBT or therapy modalities that include concrete homework. But what exactly does it mean in just your everyday psychodynamic therapy?? Sometimes I feel like its a catch-all attitude for Ts to take when they don't know what the heck to do with a client.....

How exactly do I do the work? I don't want to be perceived as some lazy person who takes no responsibility for herself /: I honestly would be willing to do this so-called work if I understood what it is that I'm to be doing. Instead, I find myself flailing around trying this and that but coming up short. Its like im in the dark and cannot see and im trying to figure out how to start seeing again. Not sure if anyone else can relate but just wanted to get this out there.

Thanks for listening.

[Nightlight]

I think the work depends on what we need to change. For me, it's a combination of being open in the therapy relationship. That is something which helps me to develop a new concept of myself, based on what my therapist is able to reflect back to me. It helps me to develop a new understanding of the ways that I struggle and perhaps a glimpse of how change might be possible. Then there are the practical steps in my every day life. I have to use the things I learn inside the therapy room to push myself into new situations, or new ways of doing things in real life. Whether I succeed or fail, I can go back and discuss it all with my therapist, so I can continue to find a way forwards. I think sometimes from the inside I've felt blind to any way forwards or the sort of work it requires. It was only after a few years that I could really look back and can see what I've needed to do and what I will have to continue doing if I want to keep moving forwards in my life.

[Lamplighter]

Good question! It's like a catch-22 sometimes with therapy isn't it? On the one hand you are expected to 'do the work' but on the other hand, no-one tells you what that work actually is

Yeah it's tangible with something like CBT isn't it? At least you're TOLD what you need to do, even if it's not easy. But in general psychotherapy, it's all so vague and insubstantial.

I have recently however come up with a bit of an idea for myself, that probably involves the idea of doing the work, and that might resonate for you. For ages I've just gone along to therapy and talked and talked and talked, and gotten nowhere. Recently I realized that actually, what I need to do is talk about specifically uncomfortable difficult painful unpleasant things, stuff that brings up the feelings in me that I spend my life controlling. It was like a lightbulb moment, though once I recognized it, I realized it's what gets talked about on here quite a lot

For me, that is work, it's something I can choose to do (or rather, make myself do!) instead of my usual talking about things in my typical detached disconnected way, I tended to always choose topics that though negative and painful, allowed me to intellectualize and discuss them, rather than feel them.

I also feel like that's what my T is willing to help and support me with so it's a together kind of thing (nothing worse than client doing lots of 'work' that T neither validates nor acknowledges as being what the therapy is there to help with...)

Have you asked your T about this? There was a thread recently about 'what are you working on in therapy' and back then I thought, nothing, because my T doesn't seem to be directing or guiding me to work on anything, but in fact, now I know he is there for me emotionally and can take my feelings, I'm able to 'do the work', or at least think about doing it

Ugh sorry for long reply. Hugs to you (((((((((( Freewilled )))))))))

[elliemay]

Originally Posted by Nightlight

I think the work depends on what we need to change. For me, it's a combination of being open in the therapy relationship. That is something which helps me to develop a new concept of myself, based on what my therapist is able to reflect back to me. It helps me to develop a new understanding of the ways that I struggle and perhaps a glimpse of how change might be possible. Then there are the practical steps in my every day life. I have to use the things I learn inside the therapy room to push myself into new situations, or new ways of doing things in real life. Whether I succeed or fail, I can go back and discuss it all with my therapist, so I can continue to find a way forwards. I think sometimes from the inside I've felt blind to any way forwards or the sort of work it requires. It was only after a few years that I could really look back and can see what I've needed to do and what I will have to continue doing if I want to keep moving forwards in my life.

I think a large part of the work, at least for me, is stepping way outside of my comfort zone in most areas that were out of my comfort zone - taking risks in my behaviour and even thoughts.

ETA: Also a part of therapy is knowing that you aren't going to do this overnight. I know I failed A LOT, and still do. It's easy to slip back into comfortable things. It's okay. It's all okay. I think that's what they call the "process". Fall down 7, get up 8 type thing. We didn't get here in one day. We aren't going to leave here in one day either.

I think there is a kind of learning and relearning that occurs when we do that, that ultimately leads to a better life.

Another part of the work is being willing to entertain ideas, thoughts, perspectives that are way outside of what you think you know. Whether this is all or nothing thinking, or some other cognitive distortion, ideas and insights counter to those defensive tactics should be at least entertained.

It's hard to step into a new life, or at least a new way of thinking about life, and doing so takes a tremendous amount of courage, but, for me, acting on that inner courage was my work.

[Aloneandafraid]

I can totally relate to this. Thank you - made me realize I need to voice those really painful/unpleasant issues with T then maybe we can get somewhere - or I can get somewhere & as you say "intellectualize and discuss them rather than feel them". Just need to find the words now. I usually talk in a detached way.

[nicoleflynn]

Ask him to DEFINE it.

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by Freewilled

So what does that mean, exactly? I mean, I understand "doing the work" in the context of CBT or therapy modalities that include concrete homework. But what exactly does it mean in just your everyday psychodynamic therapy?? Sometimes I feel like its a catch-all attitude for Ts to take when they don't know what the heck to do with a client.....

How exactly do I do the work? I don't want to be perceived as some lazy person who takes no responsibility for herself /: I honestly would be willing to do this so-called work if I understood what it is that I'm to be doing. Instead, I find myself flailing around trying this and that but coming up short. Its like im in the dark and cannot see and im trying to figure out how to start seeing again. Not sure if anyone else can relate but just wanted to get this out there.

Thanks for listening.

it means and how to do it is different for everyone....to me it means my therapist cant make me feel better, I make me feel better by talking about my problems, talking about possible solutions to the problems and then taking those solutions home with me to try out, then the next appointment my therapist and I talk about how it went using the plans we made during the last session, if what we planned didnt work out we continue talking about the problem and come up with other ways to approach the problem, take that plan home with me to try....and the cycle continues until what is going on in therapy solves the problem outside of therapy. to me thats what doing the work means and how its applied to my life.

for some people doing the work may mean talking about their problem and thats all it takes for the problems to be resolved others may need more detailed plans on what to do once they leave the therapy session so that they feel better. for some it may mean being committed to sticking with their medication routines.

my suggestion talk with your treatment provider, ask them what they mean when they tell you, that you have to be the one to do the work, what their expectations are, and what you can do that is you doing the work. in other words set up a treatment plan with your treatment providers.

[stopdog]

I think it is therapist mumbo jumbo that they say when they don't know what to do. They are good at blaming clients and they are awful at explaining what they mean- in my experience - I don't think they really know.

[anilam]

I heard this one numerous times- never been told so by my T though.
I think clients are doing their parts of work and Ts theirs- why the heck would I pay my T otherwise? It's just that T's work ends with the session and then it's up to the client whether or not they are going to "use" what they "learn" in therapy.
For me it'd be being more open in my other RS- I'm not, ppl don't know me and/or I'm telling lies to them. I don't have friends I have acquaintances. I am "open" with my T (after 7 yr and only sometimes). T showed me it is OK to do so (his work) still didn't have the guts to take it outside (my work).

[Freewilled]

Originally Posted by stopdog

I think it is therapist mumbo jumbo that they say when they don't know what to do. They are good at blaming clients and they are awful at explaining what they mean- in my experience - I don't think they really know.

I'm inclined to think its more this /: I mean, I don't know if my T actually said those words, but he told me it's going to be hard work, he told me that he doesn't have a magic wand, etc. etc. - I can connect the dots lol

But I can do the work all by myself for virtually no cost IF I know what it is that I need to do. IF I know how to "fix" it all. Um, but of course I don't. It's massively frustrating to me. I don't know that my T knows what to do with me, although I secretly hope beyond hope that there is some sort of method to this therapy madness....

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by Freewilled

How exactly do I do the work?

Have you asked your T this question?

I agree with others that for each person it is different. For a person who believes that asking the T a question is scary or conflictual or something awful, then practicing asking the T questions is part of the work of therapy. For a person who doesn't express feelings or can't even name them, then identifying one's feelings is part of the work of therapy. I think a big part of it is being engaged in the process (not sitting passively on the couch and answering "I don't know" to everything the T asks instead of trying to look inside and discern answers) and willing to try new things. I have tried tons of things my Ts have suggested even if they seemed pointless or dumb at first. Sometimes they did help and sometimes they actually did end up being dumb. I try to be "game" for what T suggests, because he's been at the job of helping people a long time, so maybe he knows a little.... Today at my therapy, I was not very game for what my T was suggesting. I gave resistance, as they say. LOL. There is always next time.

Freewilled, it sounds like you are trying very hard to make progress. Maybe it's not all just flailing but some benefit too. I hope you can talk to T to get more clarity. Or be OK with the uncertainty.

[FeelingOpaque]

Has your T asked you to try anything out outside the sessions? If so, then the T may be referring to that. But if not, maybe it is just T mumbo jumbo like others have been saying. Next time ask him what work means to him.

[Freewilled]

I know I need clarification - I guess I'm afraid of the shame I feel when I think I'm not doing enough or that I'm an irresponsible person. It really is crushing....I guess I have to try to talk to him about it though because I do want to get better....

[rainbow8]

The T I saw before this one used to tell me that she was doing most of the work, the "heavy lifting", and I was not doing much at all. She was referring to my "pattern", and she kept telling me that I wouldn't get better until I stopped wanting the relationship with her that I couldn't have.

I'm not sure how she expected me to stop wanting it. She basically wanted me to "grow up" myself, and keep busy with other things in my life instead of obsessing about her. I was partially successful, but I don't think she ever thought I did much of "the work". I couldn't, with her.

I want to "do the work" with my current T. It may be the same work, but my T helps me with it, and is an active participant. We're more partners than any other T has been. My work is to be participate fully in my RL so I don't need to have the kind of fantasy relationships I've had throughout my life.

[learning1]

Originally Posted by Freewilled

I know I need clarification - I guess I'm afraid of the shame I feel when I think I'm not doing enough or that I'm an irresponsible person. It really is crushing....I guess I have to try to talk to him about it though because I do want to get better....

That sounds like the way I felt with my last therapist. I was trying extremely hard to do the right thing, to do the work, to guess what I was supposed to be doing, to be open to changing, etc and I was afraid to ask him questions like this. I did manage to ask him sometimes; but, overall, I felt intimidated to ask. In my case, it turned out my fear of him was legitimate. He really wasn't very good for me because he dominated the conversation way too much and still managed to manipulate me into believing he had some insight or ability to help. Finally he got openly mean and I left. I suppose he probably thought it was my fault.

I hope your therapist is not judgmental like mine was. But if you continually feel afraid of your therapist thinking you are not doing enough, it might be worth considering a more supportive therapist where you will feel less afraid to ask questions. I think your plan to try to ask is a good idea. But if you try asking difficult questions like that a few times and the therapist doesn't seem aware or interested in your efforts, and also encouraging about your efforts, I guess that would be a way to tell the t is off base for you. You shouldn't be left to feel as if you were an irresponsible person when you're putting enough thought and effort into figuring out how to do the work as you obviously are doing (by posting here).

[elliemay]

After giving this some thought, I think that the best way to get the therapist to help you to understand what the *work* means to you is to ask:

"What are the the things that you think I should be doing to help myself."

Because we are in therapy to help ourselves. We are seeking the help of a professional to do that.

Your therapist may need to give that some thought, and ask them to do just that.

It may get at the essence of your therapy.

[Freewilled]

Originally Posted by learning1

That sounds like the way I felt with my last therapist. I was trying extremely hard to do the right thing, to do the work, to guess what I was supposed to be doing, to be open to changing, etc and I was afraid to ask him questions like this. I did manage to ask him sometimes; but, overall, I felt intimidated to ask. In my case, it turned out my fear of him was legitimate. He really wasn't very good for me because he dominated the conversation way too much and still managed to manipulate me into believing he had some insight or ability to help. Finally he got openly mean and I left. I suppose he probably thought it was my fault.

I hope your therapist is not judgmental like mine was. But if you continually feel afraid of your therapist thinking you are not doing enough, it might be worth considering a more supportive therapist where you will feel less afraid to ask questions. I think your plan to try to ask is a good idea. But if you try asking difficult questions like that a few times and the therapist doesn't seem aware or interested in your efforts, and also encouraging about your efforts, I guess that would be a way to tell the t is off base for you. You shouldn't be left to feel as if you were an irresponsible person when you're putting enough thought and effort into figuring out how to do the work as you obviously are doing (by posting here).

Wow, thank you I just hope I haven't wasted the last 9 months trying to make it work out with this T /: I mean, idk if I would be this way with any T or if its just not a good fit. It may be a combination of both.....he isn't judgmental per say, I'm hyper vigilant. But he is more blank screen like and sometimes I sense he is frustrated sooooo.....idk how much is real and how much I project. It is super painful for me and I'm the type of person who pushes through the pain and then doesn't even feel the pain until it is *very* deep....like I've been deadened to it until it hits the nerve.

He is in some ways very caring and apparently compassionate and yet.....I *am* scared of him and its hard to ask him questions.....I'll work on that

I think elliemay's suggestion is a very good one. It seems like a useful way to think about the whole "work" thing.

My T has told me a couple of times that he thinks I work very hard at therapy, which is very good to hear (and was very unexpected - it happened in situations where I felt that I was really not saying enough, or expressing myself well enough.) He has also said something that I think is worth keeping in mind: each of us can only work as hard as we can, at any particular time. Sometimes the words flow, and the associations come freely, and we are able to make really useful connections in our minds and become unstuck, but at other times it's slow, painful, frustrating, and we may feel that we are in fact moving backwards or getting more stuck. But as long as we show up, and try to communicate as best we can at that particular time, that is the work.

Can you ask him questions in writing?

[learning1]

Originally Posted by Freewilled

Wow, thank you I just hope I haven't wasted the last 9 months trying to make it work out with this T /:

I hope I didn't scare you. Chances are your situation is different than mine. I think most t's are not like my last one. I think it is just something to think about if your t continues to scare you once you try ask questions like this a few times.

I mean, idk if I would be this way with any T

Now that I've been to a lot of t's, I think there's so much variety between them that the relationship with each one is really different.

or if its just not a good fit. It may be a combination of both.....he isn't judgmental per say, I'm hyper vigilant. But he is more blank screen like and sometimes I sense he is frustrated sooooo.....idk how much is real and how much I project. It is super painful for me and I'm the type of person who pushes through the pain and then doesn't even feel the pain until it is *very* deep....like I've been deadened to it until it hits the nerve.

He is in some ways very caring and apparently compassionate and yet.....I *am* scared of him and its hard to ask him questions.....I'll work on that

I hope it goes well

it's making me type some extra characters to be able to post.. blah blah blah

[Freewilled]

I had my session today and I'm happy to report that my T really helped me this time around. I told him I didn't really get this whole "work" thing and that it is just too abstract for me. He gave me feedback about the ways in which he has seen me working - so detailed and just on the spot he came up with it all. It was a lot! I am so glad I said something about it to him. Thank you everyone, for encouraging me to talk to him about this. I also worked on asking him a question I had that I couldn't really imagine myself asking and it wasn't so bad after all maybe I am doing some work here lol

[Favorite Jeans]

I'm so glad your last session helped you with this issue. I'm kind of late to this discussion but I've really been thinking about your question.

Sometimes I think of therapy as a course I'm taking or a project I'm doing. It feels that way because I'm so engaged with it and it takes up such a huge part of my life even though I only actually go in for an hour a week.

My T is more psychodynamic in her orientation and doesn't give "homework" as such. She does ask me to notice what I'm feeling in session a lot and I have tried outside of session to just notice how I'm feeling. Sometimes I just focus on basic things like whether I'm hungry and other times I try to notice feelings like resentment or annoyance or anger jut to know they're there without doing anything about them (or because of them.)

Also writing about things that come up, writing emails to her that I sometimes send but usually don't and posting here all help me clarify my thoughts. Sometimes PC feels like a therapy extension in that I realize that I'm processing and forming opinions and getting insights as I read what others are saying. Also noticing what it is that moves me to comment gives me some insight as to what is going on for me. It's often easier to react to other people's questions and concerns than to my own. And I often feel more generous and compassionate toward others than toward myself. This forum gives me a reason to reflect on that.

Usually, what the work is only becomes apparent to me in retrospect.