[Asiablue]

With an old T i had a real maternal transference, we had that kind of dynamic and in the end she didn't handle it well and terminated. ( that's the short version). I was devastated all last year and it was so heartbreaking, i missed her terribly and somedays i still do.

Fast forward to this new T. I've been seeing her for bout 5 months. I have no attachment to her, no maternal transference nothing. I know she'll never be anything other than my therapist and i'm ok with that. And surprisingly she's actually more maternal in her style than my old T was. She's a warm, supportive therapist, really good at her job, very caring, very open to all emotions, feelings, thoughts, etc i like her a lot. But still she is just my therapist.

After the torture of maternal transference, it does feel healthier not to have it, it's definitely less angst-ridden and i don't have to go thru that unbearable feeling of wishing she could be more to me than she is.

Last week when we had out rupture, i realised i'm not really that attached to her, if the therapy had collapsed, i would be upset because i'm attached to the therapy, to the idea that it's going to help me heal from things and i'd be really sad to lose that but not that sad if i lost my therapist. I would miss her for a couple of weeks maybe and then i'd be fine. Whereas with ExT i was sure i was gonna die without her.

It sounds like i have a healthy attachment to the new T doesn't it? So why doesn't it feel healthy? It feels to me like something is missing, i almost miss the agony of the maternal transference (almost )

I want to feel attached to her, to feel close to her and i do want to talk to her a lot, i like her, i like talking to her and feel cared for in sessions, i talk with ease to her and i think we do have a very good relationship and i trust her and feel fairly secure. But something doesn't feel quite right and i don't know what it is......

MAybe i'm not used to a healthy attachment, if i am indeed healthily attached, i don't know if i am or if i'm in some sort of avoidant/ambivalent state.

Has anyone else had experience of overwhelming maternal transference and then going to a new T and not having that anymore? How did you feel about that?

[HazelGirl]

It just may take time because the old T left you. I met with my T for a year and a half before any transference started. It's only been 5 months, so it just may not have happened yet.

[willowbrook]

I kind of had the opposite experience where previous therapy abuse left me very mistrustful of male Psychiatrists. It didn't matter how nice my Pdoc was, or how much I enjoyed the sessions, or what I was getting out of them - every time I left there was this little voice in my head telling me to 'watch out, don't trust him, he's still a Psychiatrist, remember Psychiatrist mess with your head and hurt you'. I kept myself at a distance, and held parts of myself back, because deep down I expected history to repeat itself. Do you think you might be doing the same, subconsciously, to either have history replay itself because therapy doesn't feel right without that intensity, or because you're scared of history repeating itself, you're securely attached now, but what if the transference stuff starts up again? Just something to think about.

[rainbow8]

After I left my first T, I still grieved her for a long time, so when I was seeing her "replacement", I was still focused on my former T, and not on the present one. I liked her and all, but it wasn't the same. I saw her for about 2 years, and never developed the attachment like I have to a couple of my other Ts, and the one I see now. Could that be it for you? You're not "letting this new T in" yet?

I understand your saying you almost miss the agony!! Now that I see my T in a more real way, I miss the intense feelings I used to have for her. Well, they still come and go, but it's different from the way it was.

Not everyone experiences the same with each T. It could be too soon, or like I said, you could be holding off because of loyalty? maybe to your former T.
Do you think you could discuss this with your T? It might be important.

[Asiablue]

There is def a part of me that expects her to eventually terminate. Or at least i'm prepared for the possibility of it happening again.
And actually maybe the intensity thing is what i'm missing. It just feels uncomfortable and a bit weird.

[feralkittymom]

There is definitely an emotional calibration thing when you're used to drama in any relationship. Normal and healthy can feel empty and flat by comparison. And you can have a good attachment--or maybe therapeutic alliance is a more neutral way of viewing it--without significant transference.

Have you ever figured out where the transference with XT came from? Maybe whatever that is just isn't in this T or your interaction with her.

[Perna]

I had an interesting thing happen when I terminated therapy after 9 years back in 1987. I was terminating therapy because I was moving from the City to the suburbs over an hour away, changing jobs, leaving my apartment in the City where I had lived for 13 years, all my friends I'd made there, etc. My therapist and I only did a 2 week termination (like leaving a job :-) and away I went into the "new world". I did well there; I was moving in with my boyfriend whom I later married, the job went fine, I felt fine only there was one strange "problem" and it was like I was locked out of my insides. It was like stuff was going on underneath, a "party" so-to-speak but "I" was not invited I wasn't particularly unhappy, or anxious, or anything, was functioning as well as I ever had and "enjoying" my life but it was much much much more shallow than I had ever experienced and was very puzzling in that respect. It took me several years before I felt "Myself" again?

Then came 1996, when my world was crumbling too quickly. My father had died in 1992, my stepmother was rapidly getting extremely senile and unable to care for herself but was living alone and I had a stressful job as well as trying to help with my stepmother's care (thank goodness my stepsister is 13 years older than I am and it was her mother so she and a couple nieces were more involved than I had to be but there was a lot of guilt going on). We had to take my stepmother's car away from her and had to fly in my brother from Hawaii to do it (had to be a man :-) and after he left she would call and be abusive to my stepsister and myself on the phone constantly. The phone calls alone were stressful (she called me one day to ask where her shoes were! Surprisingly, I knew! I have a great sight memory so knew they were under her bed, she could not think to look there) and in-person was worse, with her often panicked when one tried to leave in the afternoon, making scenes in the apartment hallway calling, "Don't leave me!" pathetically, etc.

Anyway, I knew I needed therapy again but it had been a million years; I figured out how to "find" my old therapist and called her and started seeing her again in February of 1996 and therapy was wholly different "this" time. But after a few years I felt safe enough to explore the couple years worth of "deadness" after we had terminated and it was a sort of defense. I suspect the thinking and feelings you had around your first therapist were too much so your unconscious decided to forego that but you unconsciously, still, know that's what's going on so there's "something missing". Have you discussed the whole thing with this therapist? How you were painfully attached to the other but don't feel that way about her and it puzzles you?

[Asiablue]

Originally Posted by feralkittymom

There is definitely an emotional calibration thing when you're used to drama in any relationship. Normal and healthy can feel empty and flat by comparison. And you can have a good attachment--or maybe therapeutic alliance is a more neutral way of viewing it--without significant transference.

Have you ever figured out where the transference with XT came from? Maybe whatever that is just isn't in this T or your interaction with her.

The transference i *think* came from her being the first therapist i had that took time with me, seemed to like me and seemed very caring, she kinda looked after me a lot, the boundaries got messed up and she took the space of maternal person in my life. She was what i wished my mum would have been, sort of. She was protective of me and seemed to care a lot for me. We feel into a parent child dynamic.
Psychologically speaking, i think i put her in that role because i desperately needed and wanted a "good enough mother" in my life and it seemed she was willing to be that for me. I think i did it because i was trying to avoid the grief of accepting that I didn't get the mothering i needed and worst still, i'll never have the mothering i need and want. I literally wasn't able to accept that or even connect with that pain.

After it all went wrong, i was forced to accept that therapists cannot and should not take that role, not in a literal way at least. So part of that hope died in me and then i was able to face the sadness and grief with my new T of my reality of a motherless existence. It feels good to access that grief finally even tho it hurts a lot and it feels good not to constantly chase a dream that simply cannot be or to be putting women in a role they cannot sustain or want to be in. I don't need to worry about them becoming a precious commodity that i might lose at any minute, another maternal abandonment. That feels really good and healthy.

But i guess maybe i'm feeling the hole of where my mother/a mother should be. MAybe this feeling i have isn't about attachment and actually about grief?

[AllyIsHopeful]

Maybe a subconscious defense mechanism because of what happened with your old therapist? I understand the conflict/thought process though because it usually is helpful to have some sort of attachment to your therapist. It's a part of trusting. But I suppose it depends on the reason for being in therapy.

What about the maternal transference could your ex-T not handle? If you don't mind answering..

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Asia, I don't mean this to sound harsh but I can't find an easy way to say it. You are attached to her, you text her, ring and want to connect with her a lot. You write your blog about your relationship with her, so there is some sort of want or need to connect with her and I think that is normal to a certain extent.
Maybe you still want something from your t outside of sessions, more contact or to connect? This is an attachment of sorts too!

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[liquidfox]

[QUOTE=Asiablue;3614240]

It sounds like i have a healthy attachment to the new T doesn't it? So why doesn't it feel healthy? It feels to me like something is missing, i almost miss the agony of the maternal transference (almost )

Wow yes exactly. Except mine paternal transference and wishing I would just SAY how I'm feeling instead of squirming. Do you manage to tell yours how you feel about her?

I also relate to the 'gonna die' if they're not there scenario. I wouldn't actually be that extreme but can't imagine not having one person (who's always totally unavailable/distant figure) that I'm not emotionally dependent on.

[Asiablue]

Originally Posted by monalisasmile

Asia, I don't mean this to sound harsh but I can't find an easy way to say it. You are attached to her, you text her, ring and want to connect with her a lot. You write your blog about your relationship with her, so there is some sort of want or need to connect with her and I think that is normal to a certain extent.
Maybe you still want something from your t outside of sessions, more contact or to connect? This is an attachment of sorts too!

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this made me laugh! Thank you mona. You're right i am attached in some way, it's just that it feels weird. Something is just.... weird for me. I do feel the need to connect to her outside of sessions sometimes. But i don't feel the intensity i used to with exT.

oh, i just don't know what i'm trying to say.

[Asiablue]

Perna; i think you could be right, there is a deadening, i can sense there's something very subtle going on underneath all the " I think i'm healthily attached" stuff. I haven't really discussed this with her yet, i'm still mulling over it myself. I have spoke of my fears of becoming attached to her before tho.

Hopelessly Hopeful: i just found it really intense and scary and felt very out of control.

[AllyIsHopeful]

Originally Posted by Asiablue;

Hopelessly Hopeful: i just found it really intense and scary and felt very out of control.

Were you the one that terminated the last relationship?


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[Asiablue]

Originally Posted by Hopelessly Hopeful

Were you the one that terminated the last relationship?


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no, she did.

[sweepy62]

I think therapist want and seek that therapeutic connection from Thier clients ,I think they think that's what they think what makes the relationship.

I m trying not to fall in that trap, but they start using words like us, ours, we . Together , you are my priority.all those catch words.

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[feralkittymom]

Originally Posted by Asiablue

The transference i *think* came from her being the first therapist i had that took time with me, seemed to like me and seemed very caring, she kinda looked after me a lot, the boundaries got messed up and she took the space of maternal person in my life. She was what i wished my mum would have been, sort of. She was protective of me and seemed to care a lot for me. We feel into a parent child dynamic.
Psychologically speaking, i think i put her in that role because i desperately needed and wanted a "good enough mother" in my life and it seemed she was willing to be that for me. I think i did it because i was trying to avoid the grief of accepting that I didn't get the mothering i needed and worst still, i'll never have the mothering i need and want. I literally wasn't able to accept that or even connect with that pain.

After it all went wrong, i was forced to accept that therapists cannot and should not take that role, not in a literal way at least. So part of that hope died in me and then i was able to face the sadness and grief with my new T of my reality of a motherless existence. It feels good to access that grief finally even tho it hurts a lot and it feels good not to constantly chase a dream that simply cannot be or to be putting women in a role they cannot sustain or want to be in. I don't need to worry about them becoming a precious commodity that i might lose at any minute, another maternal abandonment. That feels really good and healthy.

But i guess maybe i'm feeling the hole of where my mother/a mother should be. MAybe this feeling i have isn't about attachment and actually about grief?

It feels to me like you've made it an "either/or" when it needn't be. You can grieve the unmet maternal needs of the past and simultaneously experience those transferential needs being fulfilled through the T relationship. Maybe that's what made my paternal transference with my T work rather than lead to that pain of unfulfillment: it's true he did fill those needs and didn't abandon me, but also my needs never became overwhelming, and I didn't fear abandonment because the grief of the original unmet needs was always front and center. The T relationship didn't substitute for or hide the original pain, it revealed and healed it.

[Asiablue]

Originally Posted by feralkittymom

It feels to me like you've made it an "either/or" when it needn't be. You can grieve the unmet maternal needs of the past and simultaneously experience those transferential needs being fulfilled through the T relationship. Maybe that's what made my paternal transference with my T work rather than lead to that pain of unfulfillment: it's true he did fill those needs and didn't abandon me, but also my needs never became overwhelming, and I didn't fear abandonment because the grief of the original unmet needs was always front and center. The T relationship didn't substitute for or hide the original pain, it revealed and healed it.

I couldn't access that grief until i'd started to accept that there was no fantasy mother. I think i am experiencing having some of my unmet needs in therapy by my therapist now (still early days) but what i don't have is that longing that she becomes my actual parent, i don't have that overwhelming wish that somehow, if i make her like me enough, she'll unofficially adopt me as her own child
I don't have to suspend reality anymore. So now i can feel her meeting some of my needs but also tap into the grieving i have to do.

[feralkittymom]

That sounds all good to me! Maybe you just need some time to trust that it's ok?

[Asiablue]

[QUOTE=liquidfox;3615093]

Originally Posted by Asiablue

It sounds like i have a healthy attachment to the new T doesn't it? So why doesn't it feel healthy? It feels to me like something is missing, i almost miss the agony of the maternal transference (almost )

Wow yes exactly. Except mine paternal transference and wishing I would just SAY how I'm feeling instead of squirming. Do you manage to tell yours how you feel about her?

I also relate to the 'gonna die' if they're not there scenario. I wouldn't actually be that extreme but can't imagine not having one person (who's always totally unavailable/distant figure) that I'm not emotionally dependent on.

I'm sorry i missed this earlier, i didn't see it at all.

I think you might just have tapped on something! With exT she was kind of unavailable, didn't disclose much of herself and i really wanted her approval her care her affection.... and i worked so hard to get that and when i did get some of that in a small way it was like i'd won the jackpot. It became like a high i had to chase. It became a precious commodity and it maybe was something i was repeating from childhood... something i didn't get enough of.

Whereas with this T.... she's very available to me, she's fairly open about herself, she gives me what i need, i don't need to fight for anything. There is no high highs and low lows anymore, no roller-coaster. Maybe that's why it all feels weird?

Wow.... lightbulb moment.

[Asiablue]

Originally Posted by feralkittymom

That sounds all good to me! Maybe you just need some time to trust that it's ok?

yeah maybe...