When does socioeconomic status become a problem issue in therapy?

Funny you should mention it...

I never felt this was an issue for me until this week. I don't generally feel intimidated by T's knowledge or education. I (probably) have more post-secondary education than she does. I don't think of myself as having a lot of intense class issues or a sense of shame or inferiority around my socioeconomic background. But. This week T mentioned that she was going to be working one day less per week (2 days instead of 3) and that she'd be having extra time for herself.

My reaction was really intense and caught me off guard. I got all triggered and felt abandoned even though I currently only see her once a week and that won't change. What really surprised me was my feeling that she was incredibly spoiled. I have no idea what she does in her non-work hours and she may be carrying a very heavy load with respect to family responsibilities, personal illness or something else. My gut says that isn't the case--but what do I know? She is at least ten years from (what I consider to be) retirement age and only started practice as a T about 7 years ago. It is fairly obvious to me that this job is not a major source of income for her family and I don't think she "has to" work. (But nevertheless, T has always been very sensitive about my financial problems, has had lots of empathy about feeling stretched thin and overworked etc)

So basically it triggered a shitload of judgment from me (which I refrained from expressing aloud... my fear of abandonment was more than adequate fodder for the session). I like my work and am privileged in many ways. I am pretty much the sole breadwinner for my family and experience that as very stressful. I can't imagine a situation where work is optional for me and any revenue that I generate is a bonus. I also come from a family where hard work is practically a religion and people do not start to retire until their late sixties or seventies.

So I feel a kind of self-righteous anger about the whole thing. Like seriously, you're abandoning me to play more golf or something? After a mere 7 years in practice you can no longer bear a three day work week? Have you never thought you might be going a little overboard on the self-care?

(Don't worry I fully get the extent to which my feelings about this are irrelevant, I know I shouldn't make assumptions, she doesn't have to justify her personal decisions to anyone--much less me, her life doesn't revolve around my needs etc.)

My therapist works part time four days a week. She lives alone and is working past the age that she could have retired. So, I admire her work ethic.

What your T is doing would drive me NUTS. I'd be so jealous! And I'd think that she was too much of a softie at life to really ever "get" me.

I really have a problem with women who are taken care of financially and women who have the freedom to dabble in their careers.

I know that some of this problem comes from within me because I've never had anyone to get my back. I have to work to make money and in some ways, I gave up my dream career because it didn't pay enough to really have a middle class lifestyle. But I had friends who had wealthy parents who could do that career and still afford to go drinking on the weekend. Jealous much? Youbetcha!

Also, I resent women who feel entitled to be taken care of -- ones who were taken care of by mom and dad and then graduated to being taken care of by a husband. It bothers me about men, too, but the attitude appears more prevalent in women.

The other thing that bothers me about it is the double standard. A woman expects to be a stay at home mother, or pursues a feminine helping non-threatening two-days-a-week career, while expecting that someone else will provide for her and give her the freedom to take care of her family.

WHERE IS MY FREEDOM TO TAKE CARE OF MY FAMILY!?

You're not alone FavoriteJeans. I got problems!!

Edited to add:

Yes, I would think she is spoiled. That thought would be mitigated if she could ADMIT to her privilege. It bothers me when people who don't "have" to work don't seem to see their own privilege. Nothing drives me up an EFFIN WALL like someone with a fat bank account telling me that I should slow down and smell the flowers. But when people are humbled and say, "I know that I have it good," then, I don't feel so much anger. Plus, I always smell the flowers anyway.

Can you two talk about this? If you get insight, let me know!

School isn't a requirement. It could be health or parenting (big among women) or money or job or talent or anything at all. I could care less about school. Money, yes if they are in the same bracket and are more successful at managing it but not people in a higher tax bracket. That could be more about health actually or both. I get triggered by people showing their art work because I hold myself back. That would be career. If you live your life without any of that kind of shame at all congratulations. Most people do. One of the characteristics is to hide shame so all those people could experience it at some level and you would never know. Perhaps you intimidate them. Actually I could be in the same room because you are apparently living in the states part time.

Shame is a core emotion that we all share. It isn't a disease. It drives us to seek connection through empathy. Self esteem issues develop because of excessive shame among other things. We all deal with self esteem issues to some degree because we all deal with shame. It is not the same as guilt which drives us to change.

The US culture is about scarcity as in the desire to avoid it. If you live in an are where that is not like that do tell. I have spent short amounts of time in other countries where the US influence is not so prevalent but you have to leave the city. I guarantee you there are other things those people compare.

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Well, much of what you've written doesn't really make sense to me, I assume because of auto-correct on Tapatalk. I am American and work overseas, so am intimately familiar with American culture. I just think we fundamentally disagree. I don't necessarily see comparison as connected to shame. I think the shame you're talking about is your projection of your experience. I have very close relationships with my friends, our lives are very intertwined, so I do not believe they hold different views from those they express through their words and actions over time. To compare, I think, is natural; to feel shame from such comparison, I do not think is natural. And I believe that the ability to empathize comes from security and self-acceptance, rather than from shame.

I have done a lot of work with understanding shame from a societal and personal perspective. No it isn't my own perception. There is even a well known essay from decades ago about it. Empathy is the >opposite< of shame. Yes, I feel you have not really studied it. I would be happy to refer you to some resources.

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I think what you're referring to here ^ is "healthy" shame; but your previous posts describe very unhealthy shame. An awareness of, but not being motivated by, shame is healthy, and is a precursor to empathic capacity (why sociopaths lack capacity for both shame and empathy.). But the sort of shame elicited by negative comparisons is not healthy shame, and people experiencing such shame often cannot extend empathy to others. Sometimes, with difficulty, they can accept empathy from others.


I think this is the fallacy behind thinking a T who shares a client's issue will understand and so empathize better for having shared the experience: if the T has truly processed the issue, it's possible. But if the T has not truly processed the issue, the attached unhealthy shame will hinder the ability to empathize.


And, no, I haven't specifically researched shame as it is not my field, but that doesn't prevent me from knowing my own experience of therapy and life.

I think this is the fallacy behind thinking a T who shares a client's issue will understand and so empathize better for having shared the experience: if the T has truly processed the issue, it's possible. But if the T has not truly processed the issue, the attached unhealthy shame will hinder the ability to empathize.

I just think we view this topic from very different perspectives. As I've said, some people experience shame from negative comparisons, but others are not particularly sensitive to such cultural messages and are not unduly influenced by them, either by nature or self-awareness. While I'm sure most have experienced shame at some point in their lives, I view that as a healthy experience. But for someone to be in the grip of continued experiences of shame is unhealthy. I don't think a self-aware T would have any difficulty understanding and appropriately responding to any shame a client feels, regardless of where it originates. But the responsibility ultimately rests with the client to be willing to examine the internal source of continued shame experiences, otherwise empathic acceptance will never be internalized--and the person will continue to be subject to external negative messages.

This thread is about comparisons which I addressed. I think you confuse understanding, experience and acceptance. You can hear messages and not be sensitive to them. It doesn't mean you have never felt their intent. My take with you is you assign quality to shame which is shaming in itself. It doesn't work like that.

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I am probably considered one of those women that doesn't have to work. When I started working my kid's were finally in school and it was when prices really started skyrocketing and hubby had a much lower paying job. We probably fit into the low income level and could have gotten a lot of government aid however we chose not to. A couple of months later hubby got a new job and got a large raise. A lot of people think we are wealthier than we are because our kids have/are attended private school and we have a nice house, etc. We are far from wealthy but we make other choices that many don't. Nobody in my house has a smartphone or anything like that (no data packages at all). Nobody owns an electronic that starts with I-.

I know T has struggled financially as she is a single mother. She works 3 jobs still. She could retire this summer. She will cut back hours but will not stop working. Not so much because she has to work but because she is a workaholic and just couldn't do it.

Your view of shame is credible, and I have never stated otherwise. But it is only one theory among several. I understand it; I simply don't adhere to it.


I don't know why you're unwilling to accept that, nor why you've felt the need to pepper your posts with insults. I took issue with your first post which claimed that "economic/education status is something we all feel shame about. Every one of us" because that has not been my experience, nor the experience of my T (and we have talked extensively about this topic), nor the experiences of my closest friends.


Clearly, for the OP's friend, it will be an issue, at least at the beginning of therapy. Whether he's able to work through it or not will depend upon both the T's skill and fit and his willingness to engage despite his apprehensions.