I was just sitting reading the adopted persons bible, "The primal wound" I've read it a couple of times before in the past, and though I kinda of related to it intellectually, I never felt the feelings it is talking about.

Today reading bits of it, my chest was hurting, I felt I wanted to cry, but couldn't because my family were in the room with me. Though that isn't there stopping me, its me stopping me.

It hit me as I read about abandoment and loss the life long pain this leaves one with. It hit me that I have a need to create that original loss and to try and repair it. Hence my missing my T so much. It seems I am creating the abandoment I feel by her during breaks, knowing full well that this time it gets repaired, she comes back.

Though part of these feelings will be real. That I do miss her because I know her, but the deep deep pain and mourning I experience are a "trauma reinactment".

Boy I can't wait for T tomorrow and discuss this! I've actually found myself today missing the deep pain I experineced on Monday when I reconnected with T again. Its not her so much I am longing for, its the power of the "unconsious game" .

Oh to be a T and have to be the target of their clients behavoiurs lol.

[Perna]

I was going to say, you aren't "creating" these things, they already exist in you/all of us. It's a fact that children/orphans who aren't physically picked up, touched, "cared" for, die. Why should that be different emotionally? We're built that way. It's no so much trauma re-enactment, I don't think, as a still "current" need in you. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to get better by being helped by your T, you'd be stuck re-enacting forever. The "problem" doesn't ever go away; we can't go back and have a happy infancy/childhood but we can get what we have been missing, both from others and ourselves. I think of it as being placed in a dark closet with a crack of light and getting "warped" trying to grow toward that light instead of "up". But, once you put the plant in a sunny window/plant it outside instead of the dark closet, it does fine and becomes the plant it's supposed to. It may not be possible to bloom where we're planted but I think we can replant ourselves where we'll bloom :-)

My sister was adopted when she was 3 (from a Finnish orphanage--my dad was a Finn & I think he thought having another child would help my mom's depressions since she couldn't have any more).

She is the sanest of all of us (2 brothers & me). She just lets life go without making her anxious, angry or fearful. She's married with three beautiful kids & lives in a remote area of Alaska. No power--only a generator. No phone. I went up to help her when she was pregnant with her 3rd & I got so depressed I couldn't stand it!

Even though she came from an orphanage & was then adopted & exposed to my bp/alcoholic mother & alcoholic father, she is the best, the happiest of us all. She must have really good genes. I once asked her how she could remain so patient in frustrating circumstances & she said that when mother used to lock her in the closet when we went to school (she's 6 years younger than me) she just sat there for hours & played with the shoes. That's how she learned patience!

I think nature plays a stonger role than we realize. I'm just happy for her & a little envious.--Suzy

[lenjan]

I am a birthmother and I can tell you that I did NOT "abandon" my child. (I hate that book, btw.) I destroyed the entire rest of my life so that he could have a better one.

And that's all I'm saying here, because people here like to attack me over this, but if you want to chat, please PM.

Candy

[EJ711]

Candy,

You made an intelligent and unselfish decision to give your child a better life.

He looks like a very secure and well-adjusted human being.

Hugs,

EJ

Candy, in no way do I think you abandoned your child! I love my sister so much (I'm closer to her than my "real" siblings), but I must admit when her biological sister tracked her down & came to visit from Finland, I was jealous & hurt. I'M her sister. After our mother died, I raised her & told her about sex & having your period, etc. I listened when she was dumped by the fellow she thought she couldn't live without.

Anyway, birth mothers are trying to do the best by their child when they put him up for adoption. Even though my sister didn't get the best (far from it) family to be adopted into her mother & father (they were too poor to raise her; she was the youngest of 8) had the best intentions for her & I've been blessed to have her as a sister.--Suzy

[lenjan]

Suzy, I know you didn't direct that at me. The book that mouse mentioned talks about how birthmoms abandon their children -- over and over and over again. I was just begging to differ, but obviously, my experience is different from an adoptee's. All I can say is, my son has had a terrific life. I'm very happy for that! I just wish mine hadn't been obliterated in the process.

I'm happy to talk to anybody on the subject if you want to PM.

Candy

[lenjan]

BTW, mouse, I apologize for hijacking your thread. But I really am happy to listen if you want to talk.

Candy

Hey.

There is pain to think that people left. People left us.

But their intentions in leaving us are so very very very much harder.

No matter what their intentions there can still be pain. And that is justified as a feeling. Because you wonder what would have been. What would they have been like? Would they have had the same nose as you? The same funny ears? Would they like the same things you do?

And you just don't know why... Don't know their intentions. What they were thinking.

How you feel about it can change depending on how you cast the persons intentions.

My father left my mother and me when I was 7 years old.
FACT.

My father abandoned my mother and me when I was 7 years old.
UM...

What does it mean to abandon something? I'm not sure. I do know that if I think of him as abandoning me then I feel rejected by him. Like he didn't care about me. Like it was an easy decision for him to make. Like he didn't miss me. Like he forgot I ever existed...

Is any of that true? I don't know. I honestly don't know.

If I think about my fathers motivations differently, however, then I don't feel *as* bad. If I think that he really did need to get out for his own mental health. If I think that in those days Fathers wouldn't have typically been given custody. If I think of the screaming fit my Mother would have had if he had tried to take me. If I think that he never really knew how to be around me (he didn't know how to be around 7 year old girls). If I think he is avoidant by nature...

It still hurts like hell that he left, don't get me wrong. But it hurts a little teeny tiny bit less. And... It leaves me feeling kindly (though still a little disappointed that he isn't omnipotent) but kindly towards him.

There isn't really a fact of the matter. I really don't think that there is. I don't think my Father knew what he was thinking. Actually... I think he was thinking about himself. But... That is my Father. He doesn't mean any harm. He just can't face up to things. Because he crumples. He crumples. He can't face it. I do feel sympathy for him. I try to feel sympathetic.

But their leaving has an impact oh yes it does. Because we CARE about them. We WONDER about them... What could have been. I think that there is a tendency to wonder even more when adoptive parents turn out to be not so ideal. The fit can be a bit bad sometimes.

But people leaving does impact.

I have 'abandonment' issues. In the sense that I'm scared people are going to leave / reject me. People I really care about. Push people away before you start to care about them in self defence... I'm trying to change that. It is hard, though, it is hard...

((((((((((guys))))))))))

wow, I wake up and switch on and read this thread LOL. CANDY, I dont know you and I whether "YOU" like that book or not is your issue to deal with. I have no need to defend my feelings re my abandoment. I have no need to PM with you either. It seems I am in touch wiht my feelings then a few people who post/hide on these boards. Now shoot me LOL

[lenjan]

I am plenty in touch with my feelings, thank you. But it helps me to talk to other members of the triad. I thought it might help you too. I also believe in allowing people to have their own opinions and to discuss them freely, which makes me rather unpopular here. Sorry for offending you and good luck.

[Fuzzybear]

I'm sure you're right Mouse I often wish I was more in touch with my feelings. I wouldn't screw up so often or be so misunderstood (at times. sigh)

I sometimes find reading these boards good practice in "not taking things personally"

Although sometimes... not

Sorry so short, just it pleases me that I'm not the only person who isn't perfect and forever wonderful here...............



PS I enjoy your posts. Maybe one day I will be as advanced emotionally as you are... I can only hope

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candybear said:
I am plenty in touch with my feelings, thank you. But it helps me to talk to other members of the triad. I thought it might help you too. I also believe in allowing people to have their own opinions and to discuss them freely, which makes me rather unpopular here. Sorry for offending you and good luck.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I have a professional helping me with my adoption issues. I'm afraid your rejecting the issues raised in that book tell me all I need to know. I'm sorry you feel you are unpopular here. I dont give a rats arse about popularity. I come to share my journey. I dont' know your personal circumstances re your relinqsment of your son. All I know is my lifes exeperiences. Now if you wish to consult with my side of the adoption triad then feel free to. I also like to speak my truth.

Have wonderful day!

[Fuzzybear]

No need to reply. I also am caring less and less about "popularity"... as you so succinctly put it, I dont give a rat's backside or even a flying f********

Yes I'm freakin angry.

Not at you.

tc.

oh fuzzy, now whats wrong?

[Fuzzybear]

You know how it goes..... sorry I used your thread to "crap" in.... I will delete it if you wish?

crap away.

[__zh]

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mouse_ said: It hit me as I read about abandoment and loss the life long pain this leaves one with. It hit me that I have a need to create that original loss and to try and repair it. Hence my missing my T so much. It seems I am creating the abandoment I feel by her during breaks, knowing full well that this time it gets repaired, she comes back.

Though part of these feelings will be real. That I do miss her because I know her, but the deep deep pain and mourning I experience are a "trauma reinactment".

... Its not her so much I am longing for, its the power of the "unconsious game" .

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> mouse_

what great revelations to come to after the work you've been doing on this. as person of adoption our opinions on the matter are often not in line with "traditional" thinking so we are grateful you're able to share your journey here with the board.

good stuff. not our root issue as one therapist of ours in past tried to convince us it was....we knew it wasn't.........sure it plays role but not center stage....for us anyway.

to break a pattern one must first recognize it. no mistaking your recognition here!! kudos to your dedication to your healing.

[radio_flyer]

I have not read the book in question that talks about that birth mothers abandon their children. But I can say it is rather cruel to say that mothers who put their children up for adoption abandon them.

I personally think that birth mothers get a raw deal in the whole adoption process. First, in many cases, the birth mother is over looked. And then the "new parents to be" are glorified for undertaking such a feat as adopting another woman's child. The birth mother's feelings in many cases are not even considered. Many times she is thought of as this uncaring, cold hearted woman that gives up her child. How can a "mother" do that, is what many people say.

Well let me tell you, IMHO, the birth mother giving up a child for adoption is the most unselfish, most caring and loving woman in the world. To have carried a child in her body for 9 months and to go through the extreme pains of labor and then relinquish her child. Whatever a birth mother's reason is for giving up her child, she should be the one being shown consideration and compassion. She has given life to a child. And she has given a family that can not have children a chance to raise and love a child of their very own.

These issues that a woman abandons her child just irks me big time. If it were not for the birth mother, the adoptive parents would not have a child to raise. Nobody seems to care about the anguish and pain the birth mothers goes through. She is in many cases is the one that is abandoned. Esp when the baby is born and the papers are signed. . But then nobody knows the pain she feels and they don't even care.... Sad IMHO

Well, My birth mother had given her first 2 children up for adoption. Was up in the courts for physical and emotional abuse. Would have had an abortion but was tied to her religion. Drank through all her pregnancys ( all of us are effected by this), she handled me over to a woman that had been turned down by social services and had no idea or didnt investigate whether this woman who was to become my new mum was "fit for purpose" which she wasn't. I'm sorry it "irks" you, I guess thats something you may like to look at. Me? I'm rather proud of myself for turning my life around after such a shakey start and bow to no one LOL...so think away. opinions are like arseholes, we all have one lol

[radio_flyer]

I am sorry to hear that your birth mother and adoptive mother were both of questionable character. As far as children who's parents are abusive, I would think of them being rescued rather than being abandoned. But unfortunately, in your case, it appears that did not happen.

I still think that in a lot of cases the "birth mother" gets a bum deal. Not all birth mothers are abusive as not all adoptive parents are non-abusive.

I am proud of you that you have turned your life around and bow down to no one. It takes a lot of courage and strength to overcome one's abusive childhood and move forward. Thumbs up to you and your future....