[GenCat]

When you hear a T say the words Code of Ethics, is it because they truly honor them, or do Ts abuse them and twist them into what fits or works for them? Like my T who always says, " within the Code of Ethics it's right" or "it's ethically ok" to brush off any questionable dirty laundry I think T has. There is a part in section A. 6. b that says counselors have the right to "extend" ones boundaries. I think with me, there has been a lot of "extending" going on.

What's your thought to hiding behind the Code?

I guess it depends. Repeatedly referencing rules can be a sign of obsessive-compulsive personality.

Never heard one of my therapists mention Codes of Ethics, although they can often be implied.

[elaygee]

My T refers to her CoE. It reminds me that on a personal level it may be different but ethics require her to behave a certain way. And its her job to behave that way.

[rainboots87]

I've never had a T mention the words "code of ethics." They've always just abided by them.

I've never had a T ever refer to the Code of Ethics. Could be because they've never done anything even remotely questionable that it would have even come up.

[precaryous]

Originally Posted by GenCat

When you hear a T say the words Code of Ethics, is it because they truly honor them, or do Ts abuse them and twist them into what fits or works for them? Like my T who always says, " within the Code of Ethics it's right" or "it's ethically ok" to brush off any questionable dirty laundry I think T has. There is a part in section A. 6. b that says counselors have the right to "extend" ones boundaries. I think with me, there has been a lot of "extending" going on.

What's your thought to hiding behind the Code?

A previous PsyDoc smashed the code of ethics with me. He told me that while having sex with a patient was "frowned upon," it would help get me out there in the dating world.

I found out later it was not only against medical ethics, it was a felony in that state. I didn't question everything until later.

Yes, they can twist the code of ethics to suit them, sometimes.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by skies

I guess it depends. Repeatedly referencing rules can be a sign of obsessive-compulsive personality.

Never heard one of my therapists mention Codes of Ethics, although they can often be implied.

Starfleet regulations clearly state...

If we could conquer the galaxy by paperwork alone, The Federation would win hands down.

On second thought, therapists will start rationalizing their behavior when making bad decisions and violating boundaries. I think I got that from Glenn Gabbard's or Ken Pope's work. Pope has a huge website so it will come up in Google results.

Are you OK?

[precaryous]

Originally Posted by GenCat

When you hear a T say the words Code of Ethics, is it because they truly honor them, or do Ts abuse them and twist them into what fits or works for them? Like my T who always says, " within the Code of Ethics it's right" or "it's ethically ok" to brush off any questionable dirty laundry I think T has. There is a part in section A. 6. b that says counselors have the right to "extend" ones boundaries. I think with me, there has been a lot of "extending" going on.

What's your thought to hiding behind the Code?

Are you ok?

[GenCat]

Originally Posted by precaryous

Are you ok?

Physically yes, mentally no. I see my T tomorrow and I'm so worried about what she will say to the email I wrote her. Thanks for asking.

[Petra5ed]

We don't discuss the code of ethics, only once has professional ethics been brought up and that was when my T mentioned that it was unethical to have a relationship with a client, which was kind of a 'duh' moment. I think it is hiding a bit to bring the code of ethics into something. For example, by bringing up the code of ethics they don't need to say how they feel about it, whether for example they want to go to your party but cant, or just don't want to go. If a T thinks it's unethical or wrong I think it would be more beneficial to just say that vs. or in addition to citing a code of ethics I think.

[Wren_]

mine has only spoken of it as a way to reassure me about certain things and help me feel safe ... I don't think it would feel very safe at all hearing it in the context of hiding or abusing within that code

[DSM-3.1415926]

Originally Posted by GenCat

... within the Code of Ethics ...

What code of ethics? (As though hers is the only one.) I'd ask her point-blank to (a) produce you a complete written copy of the code, and (b) name its source. Is it something from the American Psychological Association? A professional association or other governing body for her particular method of therapy? Or just something she wrote up? If the latter, can she show you the whole code, or is she just alluding to one but can't produce its documentation (a bad sign indeed)?

You can't properly judge whether she's honoring or breaching her "ethics" till you can see for yourself exactly what they are. And if she claims it's from some organization, be sure to search it on your own to see if it really exists and appears reputable or shady. Also find out what "teeth" the code has and what recourse (if any) it offers you in the event it's breached.

As for the ethics mandated by the laws of your state, I'd find out what agency handles licensing of therapists and check her for disciplinary actions there. Even this can be tricky -- at one time in New York State (this may or may not still be true), a "psychologist" had to have certain advanced degrees and credentials, but anyone could hang up a shingle as a "psychotherapist."

You might also check your local general-jurisdiction court for malpractice suits against her. Look for documents called the "complaint" (why the suit is being brought) and the "answer" (the defendant's rebuttal to the complaint) as well as the documents indicating how the case was disposed (was a monetary judgment rendered, did the case go to mediation, was it dismissed after a settlement?). This is how my wife and I dodged several bullets from careless surgeons she almost let operate on her, and you don't have to be a lawyer to do this, as court papers are public records.

In either case, don't just rely on HealthGrades -- they only keep data on disciplinary actions for five years back.

Here's hoping her "ethics" are actually meaningful and have genuine positive value. The point of any worthwhile ethics code is to provide transparency, not a hiding place.

[precaryous]

Originally Posted by GenCat

Physically yes, mentally no. I see my T tomorrow and I'm so worried about what she will say to the email I wrote her. Thanks for asking.

GenCat, I read many of your old posts about this T. I have been through something similar with an unethical T. I'll think of you tomorrow!

Please remember when she gives you excuses for her behavior that, even in a small town, she as T should have only your best interest at heart. She claims to be an encourager and not a hand holder....yet she escorts you to these social functions. She also broke HIPPA and ethics code by revealing private information to the church director. She's not making sense.

I know you have a great deal of positive feelings for her. It will be quite painful for you to leave her. I understand that, I do. But not only is she not helping you with your initial problems, she has caused you more problems by clouding and tainting the therapeutic relationship.

I read you live in a small community where contact might happen - but it's one thing to run into your T at a dance and entirely something else for her to drive you there, sit next to you, and privately touch you...or look down your blouse.

What are her credentials? Is she a social worker, marriage and family counselor, a psychologist?

Just know you are not alone. We are all here for you.

Pre

[melania]

I've been thinking that way. I even told my t that he's hiding behind boundaries and use them not to tell me the truth.
When he said- I can't do this because of boundaries- I said that he just doesn't want to do this and he uses boundaries to say he can't not to say he doesn't want. he knows for sure I always think so and sometimes he asks me why i can't believe him.
But he crossed some boundaries (his boundaries are just too strict and other ts think it's not boundary crossing) because of me. I always said- you love your boundaries more then me.
Now I think that maybe there in the world are some crazy people who do/don't do something because of ethics and rules breakers like me just can't understand those people.
My t said that he wouldn't have sex to any of his patients even if he wanted to because of ethics.

[Ford Puma]

Some times, only some times I feel as though some T's and shrinks are overly concerned with the rules and often use them just to bail themselves out of a tricky subject or situation.
They in my mind could do with relaxing a bit more and no been so paranoid that we are trying to trip them up all the time.

[melania]

Originally Posted by Ford Puma

Some times, only some times I feel as though some T's and shrinks are overly concerned with the rules and often use them just to bail themselves out of a tricky subject or situation.
They in my mind could do with relaxing a bit more and no been so paranoid that we are trying to trip them up all the time.

Agree with you

[Bill3]

There is a part in section A. 6. b that says counselors have the right to "extend" ones boundaries. I think with me, there has been a lot of "extending" going on.

There is no "right" for a counselor to extend boundaries. Rather, there is a balancing envisioned, in which the client's welfare is paramount.

Here is the text of that section:

A.6.b. Extending Counselor Boundaries

Counselors consider the risks and benefits of extending current counseling relationships beyond conventional parameters. Examples include attending a client's formal ceremony (e.g., a wedding/commitment ceremony or graduation), purchasing a service or product provided by a client (excepting unrestricted bartering), and visitjng a client's ill family member in the hospital. In extending these boundaries, counselors take appropriate professional precautions such as informed consent, consultation, supervision, and documentation to ensure that judgment is not impaired and no harm occurs.

Has your counselor taken "appropriate professional precautions" such as obtaining your informed consent?

Note also that A.6.c. states If counselors extend boundaries...they must officially document, prior to the interaction (if feasible), the rationale for such an interaction, the potential benefit, and anticipated consequences for the client.

I wonder if your counselor is documenting these boundary extensions in your file.

The American Counseling Association Code of Ethics is here:

http://www.counseling.org/resources/...-of-ethics.pdf

[precaryous]

Originally Posted by Bill3

There is no "right" for a counselor to extend boundaries. Rather, there is a balancing envisioned, in which the client's welfare is paramount.

Here is the text of that section:

Has your counselor taken "appropriate professional precautions" such as obtaining your informed consent?

Note also that A.6.c. states If counselors extend boundaries...they must officially document, prior to the interaction (if feasible), the rationale for such an interaction, the potential benefit, and anticipated consequences for the client.

I wonder if your counselor is documenting these boundary extensions in your file.

The American Counseling Association Code of Ethics is here:

http://www.counseling.org/resources/...-of-ethics.pdf

Thank you for this!

I also want to add that different therapists have slightly different ethics codes. Psychiatrists, psychologists, Marriage and Family Therapists, Social Workers, Pastoral Counselors, etc... All have their own ethics codes found by googling their licensing boards.

[GenCat]

My T is a LPC and a LMFT. And I've never asked if she has documented my boundary extensions.
I'm not sure if I want to start pointing my finger at her and put her job on the line.

[Bill3]

I'm not sure if I want to start pointing my finger at her and put her job on the line.

What (if anything) you do with the information is of course entirely up to you. I think, though, that speaking to her privately about any boundary concerns that you may have would not in itself be putting her job on the line.

The Code of Ethics I quoted would govern her as an LPC if she has chosen to join the American Counseling Association. I agree with precaryous that each professional category has its own Code of Ethics.

[Lauliza]

I think the "code of ethics" with an LPC (or LMHC in my state) are looser than they are for other licensed MH workers- even social workers - and I think that is partially because it is the newest license (it's only been around since the 1970's). So I think you'd see Phd's, PsyD's and especially MD's can be a little more rigid with their eithics and boundaries. I think a lot of the guidelines are very vague and for inexperienced Counselors or just more laid back T's, there are lot's of opportunities to really mess up and create unnecessary conflict.

Regardless, I think it is the nature of the client's illness and therapy that would really dictate whether or not something is an ethical violation, so some T's will use that to clarify why they might do something for one patient but isn't willing to do it for another. However, in your case I agree with the other posters that your T has been very contradictory with her behavior and what she says. I do think that you should absolutely bring up any concerns you have with her. As Bill3 said, you are not going to get your T in any kind of trouble by talking to her about this. That would only happen if you took steps beyond that.

[grimtopaz]

I have to agree with DSM-3.14...(wonderful screen name, BTW)

Different therapists have different codes, they are mostly similar but not the same. I only have thorough knowledge with the APA Code of Ethics.

The APA Code of ethics has an "aspirational" section and an "enforceable" section. The "aspirational" section includes things all psychologists should aspire to. These are general principles, such as "do no harm", etc. The "enforceable" section involves boundaries that cannot be crossed under any circumstance (or very "special" circumstances).

That being said, "the code" can and is sometimes twisted from a therapist's perspective, unless it is a boundary violation that is very concrete (e.g. don't have sexual contact with patients.) There are many shades of gray, since some ethical decisions code for "clinical judgment" from the side of the therapist. However, their judgment CAN be wrong.

Here is the important point. If a therapist crosses YOUR boundaries of comfort, and they start turning to the Code to rationalize their behavior - RUN. They are getting defensive, and it might (not sure) be the case that they are hiding behind their interpretation of the code to justify their behavior or to prevent someone from filing a complaint.

Most therapist's behavior are much stricter than the code. The code pretty much says "you do this, you will be sanctioned/punished/etc", however, individuals can certainly push that line and enter gray territory.

The APA's Code (and perhaps other codes) use some rather technical language; thus, I would recommend that if you have any questions, you consult with an impartial third party who is familiar with the particular code (e.g., another neutral therapist).

Also, it is NOT the patient's responsibility to figure out whether the Code has been "violated" or not. The patient can file a complaint, and is up to the licensing board to make that decision. This is because most issues are NOT black and white, so it requires experts and people knowledgeable with the subject matter.

But let me reiterate the important point.

If your therapist makes you uncomfortable, has looser boundaries than you'd like, you don't feel you are benefiting from therapy, or that she has your best interest in mind - you owe her NOTHING. She is providing a professional service meant to benefit YOU. She is there to meet YOUR needs, not hers.

While the Code matters in terms of whether he/she could lose her license (you can always file/not file a complaint if you'd like); even if he/she does something "allowed" by the code, it does not mean you should be OK with it or put up with it.

[grimtopaz]

I thought this deserved it's own comment:

Ethical boundaries/codes are in place to protect the patients, not the therapists.

The number one ethical principle from almost all the professional codes is "do no harm" and have the best interest of the patient always in mind.

[stopdog]

I disagree that ethical codes are to protect clients. That might have been some of - but not all-the original intent, and sometimes it might work out that way, but it most assuredly, in my experience, is used by therapists to protect therapists.